Training & Nutrition - Raw Foodism

i am trying this thing now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism

and using these 2 forums for support:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/index.php

http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/index.php

this diet is supposed to be really healthy but one thing is for sure - it results in dramatic weight loss.

i don't think any elite athletes follow this diet unmodified. this guy thinks he's 1337 of course:

http://www.youtube.com/user/runningraw

but with slight modifications like adding some whey protein, maybe some fish etc i think it can work very well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_lalanne

personally i am about 50% raw right now. i supplement about 200 grams of whey protein a day plus i indulge in baked potatoes :)

also if you decide to bite the bullet make sure to read my article about choosing a blender for your green smoothies:

http://www.diy-av.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=471

Does you diet include any meat, milk or sugar?.

i supplement about 200 grams of whey protein a day

You're probably wasting a lot of that.

You're probably wasting a lot of that.

Yeah, wasting money.

Not to mention unnecessarily taxing his liver. But the guy hasn't really shown much in the way of sense, so I am not surprised.

Look up 80/10/10. Its where its at.

Look up eating wholesome, homemade, and nutritious food, it's where it's at.

Miracle diets are for the desperate and needy. Just eat good food and watch your portions, it's not really hard.

Does you diet include any meat, milk or sugar?.

no.

Just eat good food.

no sh1t.

only problem is i think we might disagree about what "good food" is.

is home made cheesecake good food ?

Another article on raw foodism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity

is home made cheesecake good food ?

Yes.

is home made cheesecake good food ?
If portioned for an accounted correctly into your daily food intake then yep, it is good food and a tasty source of your daily intake of fat. Still, I've not had cheese cake in two years (and I only ate it then, blended up into an experimental mocha shake, because my jaw was wired shut).

The raw-food diet is terrible, if not outright destructive, on your digestive system. We cook foods to help with the digestive process. The minimal nutriment loss due to cooking is still less then the loss you have by your body's inability to digest the raw foods into usable form. You experience rapid weight loss on a raw-foods diet because you are essentially starving yourself.

Thrive Diet is fairly raw and dude is a professional ironman triathlete.

The raw-food diet is terrible, if not outright destructive, on your digestive system. We cook foods to help with the digestive process. The minimal nutriment loss due to cooking is still less then the loss you have by your body's inability to digest the raw foods into usable form. You experience rapid weight loss on a raw-foods diet because you are essentially starving yourself.

i hear ya bro. i am using a 1800 watt commercial blender to give myself a head start with digesting food. i blend nuts into milk. i blend greens into something that looks like tomato juice - only green. in addition to this, as i said, i mega-dose highly bioavailable whey protein as well as some microwaved potatoes. i know if all i ate was salad i would starve to death.

i think raw food diet is superior for the following reasons:

lets say you can only extract 25% of nutrients out of greens ( this is quite a conservative number ) blended up in a blender which has 1800 watts of power and 300 miles per hour blade speed ( such as my blender ). i say this is OK because you will get a PROPORTIONALLY BALANCED FRACTION of each nutrient. that is to say you will get 25% of carbs, 25% of vitamins and 25% of minerals in it. so if you blend enough of the stuff you get everything u need ( except for calories and protein, which you should get elsewhere ).

with cooked food on the other hand - it lets you extract 100% of the calories from what you've been cooking, as well as 100% of protein and 100% of fat but at the same time many nutrients are completely destroyed. and worse than that - some NEW chemicals are created by cooking that don't naturally exist and the body isn't evolved to deal with.

my claim is that losing 75% of nutrients is a lesser evil as long as all nutrients are lost proportionally. on the other hand losing on only maybe 5% of nutrients in cooked food is much much worse because the nutrients are lost SELECTIVELY and other artificial and harmful chemicals created.

i don't advocate a strict raw diet for anybody - especially not for an athlete. i advocate a diet that is approximately 50% to 80% raw. the rest of the diet should consist of wholesome home-made foods as the other poster suggested - to bring up the total calorie and protein content of the diet.

basically i try to drink as many green smoothies per day as i can ( which is about half a gallon of relatively thick green stuff ) but keep in mind that there is NO WAY to get everything i need out of them, and make up the rest with either "real food" or protein shakes

to me the advantage of a green smoothie is that it is balanced ( many nutrients in small quantities rather than few in large quantities ) and that it's free from all of the crap that you wouldn't want in your body like hydrogenated fat, table salt, sugar etc.

the main purpose of cooking vegetables is to break down the fiber which humans cannot digest and which locks the nutrients in the vegetable. with enough power a blender will physically break down the fiber and thus release the nutrients.

juicers serve the same purpose - they physically release the nutrients which the body can't chemically release from whole plant.

thermal and mechanical "cooking" really serve the same purpose here but thermal is much more crude. it's like the difference between controlled demolition of a building and burning it down.

I am a big advocator of a good diet & what one consumes. I think its more important for overall general health than exercise, but you only live once, I might have an oatmeal raisin cookie once in a while, I ain't gonna kill myself with crazy diets.

A crazy diet doesn't necessarily guarantee long-life span neither (although I do agree it will extend ones personal life span).

I know quite a few 100% raw foodies. They claim to feel healthier, have more energy, and require less sleep. They happen to be very "scientific" about their diets almost to the point of being religious about it. I don't dispute their claims, though they seem to keep their weight down, they also have an almost gaunt and undernourished appearance. While skinny, I wouldn't necessarily say they are 'fit'. Its probably because their focus on health is all about a pure, clean lifestyle vs using exercise to stay healthy.

I wouldn't say their diet is crazy, but the degree to which they pursue it IS crazy. It's an elitist lifestyle (gross over-generalization). I think the idea of having a predominantly raw diet is good and achievable, along with balancing it with good old-fashioned nutrition. Spend time understanding where your food comes from, the impact to the environment for producing and transporting your food is very important - doing so will generally lead you to a more wholesome and healthy lifestyle that positively affects your diet along with other aspects of your life.

While I don't think it's a way to eat and live, and I find it ironic that most raw foodists rely on a machine(blender) to make their food digestible ..... I respect your right to do so. The only way to learn sometimes, is try.


But hey ...... wouldn't a true raw food advocate would eat foods in their raw sate without blending them to oblivion in a Vit-Mix ? Is this natural?

How does consuming whey protein, any highly processed protein, fit into a "raw food" picture?

I don't see the irony. Raw means that the living nutrients have not been killed off by being exposed to high heat. 108 degrees is typically the lower limit they use. So you can have a warm raw soup while still maintaining the living nutrients. Blending does not increase the heat of the food, thus it doesn't kill off any living nutrients. There's no irony.

I know quite a few 100% raw foodies. They claim to feel healthier, have more energy, and require less sleep. They happen to be very "scientific" about their diets almost to the point of being religious about it.

Would be quite interested to see if these guys could outlive my fathers mother who lived to 97. She started smoking at the age of 14 (yes 14) & from the age of 50 onwards drank alcohol (sherry) pretty much everyday. And the diet, terrible. She was very skinny, undernourished etc..

I'm gonna tell you straight up, if you're going to do raw foods take it upon yourself to buy and read 80/10/10. DO NOT waste your time with your stupid little blender and high fat nut-avocado junk diet. Unless you like being fat, stoughed up, and brain dead, that is.

I don't see the irony. Raw means that the living nutrients have not been killed off by being exposed to high heat. 108 degrees is typically the lower limit they use. So you can have a warm raw soup while still maintaining the living nutrients. Blending does not increase the heat of the food, thus it doesn't kill off any living nutrients. There's no irony.


How long have these high speed blenders been around? Not long.

The irony is blended food is not natural, and isn't that a reason for raw food?

so you get more nutrients out of the raw food, but are we really nutrient deficient from eating cooked food?

I went 6 months on all raw food and I never felt better in my life. That was a few years ago and since then I have morphed my diet into a high raw, mostly animal/dairy free diet. I think eating foods that are unprocessed and unpackaged is more important than following a regime, and most people would do much better to eat whole foods whether they are cooked or not. Being an active person, it is hard to get all the calories I need from all raw, so I eat healthy cooked foods as well. I do want to go back to eating 100% at some point, simply because of how I felt when I was eating that way. It's not for everyone, but it certainly does work for many people.

so you get more nutrients out of the raw food, but are we really nutrient deficient from eating cooked food?

I agree. And yes, this leads to a host of unanswerable questions ....

While there are more nutrients in raw food, how does the body utilize them, and to what degree is this beneficial, if at all? We assume more is better, but is it? Does it matter?

Are we just a body to be fed by earth? What role does the mind and most importantly... spirit play in nourishment? How does one quantify this?

Oh ... forgive me .... I could go on with this forever. We all do as we do.

-cheers

I'm not sure if more is better, but for me, its all about how the food makes me feel. I feel more energized, healthy, and light eating mostly raw food than I do when I eat healthy cooked. I'm not sure how my body is utilizing the nutrients, but I like the outcome from it. I think if the food you eat makes you feel better about yourself then you should stick with it, whether that be raw for one person, or cooked for another.

How does consuming whey protein, any highly processed protein, fit into a "raw food" picture?

Whey protein even for recovery purposes is overrated.

I hope its synthetic, chemical free.

...some NEW chemicals are created by cooking that don't naturally exist and the body isn't evolved to deal with.
It is possible that fire is why we are and have evolved to be human.

How does consuming whey protein, any highly processed protein, fit into a "raw food" picture?

excellent question ! i was just banned from Raw Food Talk over this very same issue yesterday !

apparently it does not - but what do i care ? it works for me !

I'm not sure if more is better, but for me, its all about how the food makes me feel. I feel more energized, healthy, and light eating mostly raw food than I do when I eat healthy cooked. I'm not sure how my body is utilizing the nutrients, but I like the outcome from it. I think if the food you eat makes you feel better about yourself then you should stick with it, whether that be raw for one person, or cooked for another.

exactly.

after being mostly raw for maybe 2 weeks i decided to fry some chicken ( because i have about 10 pounds of it frozen from like last year ) and to complete the picture fry some potatoes with it as well ...

after i had it i felt hung over. i felt exactly the way i feel the next day after getting wasted on vodka - no energy, no focus, slightly nauseous and unpleasant sensations in my abdomen around the stomach and liver area.

now i don't drink but i remember how it feels from the days when i used to do it.

i just see no point going through life feeling less than the best you could feel.

I know quite a few 100% raw foodies. They claim to feel healthier, have more energy, and require less sleep. They happen to be very "scientific" about their diets almost to the point of being religious about it. I don't dispute their claims, though they seem to keep their weight down, they also have an almost gaunt and undernourished appearance. While skinny, I wouldn't necessarily say they are 'fit'. Its probably because their focus on health is all about a pure, clean lifestyle vs using exercise to stay healthy.

I wouldn't say their diet is crazy, but the degree to which they pursue it IS crazy. It's an elitist lifestyle (gross over-generalization). I think the idea of having a predominantly raw diet is good and achievable, along with balancing it with good old-fashioned nutrition. Spend time understanding where your food comes from, the impact to the environment for producing and transporting your food is very important - doing so will generally lead you to a more wholesome and healthy lifestyle that positively affects your diet along with other aspects of your life.

they're not very scientific. they're very much anti-scientific in fact. which is mostly ok because science today is a joke.

that said what little science is good for they disregard. they refuse to admit that they are deficient in protein.

you made an excellent observation about them looking malnourished - THEY ARE !

that's why i am not doing a 100% raw diet - that's why i am supplementing 200 grams of whey protein a day - because i don't want to look like them !

i should really cut back on the protein, but its hard because Syntrax Nectar protein is the best tasting part of my whole diet LOL

While I don't think it's a way to eat and live, and I find it ironic that most raw foodists rely on a machine(blender) to make their food digestible ..... I respect your right to do so. The only way to learn sometimes, is try.


But hey ...... wouldn't a true raw food advocate would eat foods in their raw sate without blending them to oblivion in a Vit-Mix ? Is this natural?

well a Raw diet is not natural PERIOD.

Paleolithic Diet is natural. Paleolithic diet includes raw animal products while "Raw" diet is vegan.

Because Raw diet doesn't have animal products in it - it is inherently deficient. Raw foodists try to compensate for that as best as they can by supercharging their raw foods by blending or juicing ( of course those id1ots don't actually admit their diet is deficient, they just instinctively reach for the blender because they are starving )

I compensate for deficiencies of raw diet in 2 ways:

1 - by using a blender

2 - by using whey protein

Whey protein being an uncooked animal protein is really the missing link for me that bridges the gap between "Raw" diet and Paleolithic diet without the dangers of eating raw meat ( parasites )

i tried to explain this to those ******** idiots but they simply banned me :)

I don't see the irony. Raw means that the living nutrients have not been killed off by being exposed to high heat. 108 degrees is typically the lower limit they use. So you can have a warm raw soup while still maintaining the living nutrients. Blending does not increase the heat of the food, thus it doesn't kill off any living nutrients. There's no irony.

blending is nothing more than very thorough chewing.

i don't remember if i made this point before but a quality dental crown ( ceramic or gold ) runs $1,000 to $2,000 and isn't covered by most insurance ( insurance will only pay for a toxic plastic filling or a super-toxic mercury filling ).

humans in the primitive societies didn't live much past 30 years of age. once your teeth were gone - you were dead - simple as that :) now what if you plan to live to 100 ? its just a lot damn cheaper, faster and easier to blend food than use teeth.

i believe in moderation. ideally i want to chew enough to regularly exercise that apparatus but not so much that i would prematurely wear it out.

I'm gonna tell you straight up, if you're going to do raw foods take it upon yourself to buy and read 80/10/10. DO NOT waste your time with your stupid little blender and high fat nut-avocado junk diet. Unless you like being fat, stoughed up, and brain dead, that is.

i will never go by arbitrary numbers again. low fat, low carb - none of that BS ever again ! those are just gimmicks to make money.

read my lips: PALEOLITHIC DIET

Being an active person, it is hard to get all the calories I need from all raw.

its easy.

blend nuts or seeds with bananas into a whey protein shake.

mine comes out as thick as yogurt.

that shake has as much protein, fat and carbs as any fast food meal - burger, pizza - you name it. and just like after a proper fast food meal you wouldn't be able to get up after you had it.

It is possible that fire is why we are and have evolved to be human.

on an evolutionary scale cooking is a recent invention. primates certainly don't cook and are virtually identical to us biologically.

there is no doubt that since humans learned how to cook we have PARTIALLY adapted to cooked food. human diet would probably kill most animals.

still it would be unreasonable to think that in the couple thousand years that cooking has been in widespread use humans could have FULLY adopted to the thousands of toxins that cooking produces - it is just not mathematically possible for the evolutionary process to run this fast.

Couple thousand years?? More like several hundred thousand years.

80-10-10 is just what naturally occures when most of your calories come from fruit. Fruit breakfast, fruit lunch, tender greens and very little fat for dinner.
80 percent carbs, 10 percent protein and 10 percent fat. If you just EAT TONS OF FRUIT, EAT AS MANY GREENS AS YOU CARE FOR, MAYBE A TABLESPOON OF SEEDS A DAY, you will feel amazing and have energy through the roof.

Heres my take on the raw vs cooked argument:
As our digestive tracts shrank, our brains grew. As our digestive tract shrank, our hunting behavior grew. As our ability to process vast amounts of roughage and plant food shrank, our brains grew. Hm? I wonder what that means?
We are not monkeys. "But monkeys eat mostly veg, and they are our closest ancestors!" First of that is simply not true. Chimps hunt, kill, and eat each other. Gorillas dont even really eat bananas, most of their diet consists of greens. They all eat bugs.
Somewhere along the line, our jaws began to hurt, and sharp things began to appeal to us. It was animal protein and fat that made us smart. It free'd up so much blood from the digestive tract that the brain could do its thing.
There is no "one way" or "one thing" we should/can eat. We are designed to eat natural foods, and we should take advantage of this fact.
Grains, on the other hand......

Anybody that relies on synthetic, chemically made protein shakes is no where near to having the perfect diet.

Period.

What's missing in the blender consumption of food is chewing..... one needs to "chew" the food enough to activate saliva and enzymes for digestion. I do this with juice I consume on a daily basis.

Digestion isn't just what takes place in your stomach, it starts in your mouth.

What you get if you just drink it , is less absorption of nutrients, gas and such.


Extreme diets, like just eating fruit for instance, is in the long run unbalanced. People who do this re generally out of balance and trying to regain it by going to an extreme. More than likely though, it will just lead to another extreme to balance out this one. Sooner or later.... hopefully.... one finds a balanced way of eating. But, we live in such a unbalanced world today, these ways of eating are more popular than ever. But, in my view ..... they will never get to the root of ones dis-ease. this takes introspection of ones life. Simple ... yes .... but not so easy.

What I learned in my own life from extreme ways of eating is how I was motivated by fear. Fear of food, fear of getting fat, fear of become like "them" .... referring to my family who ate lots of junk. It boils down to fear of life. Food is just one way I try to fool myself into thinking I'm in control of the whole show. Ha ha. I'm not "god".. . nor is food.... nor is cycling.....nor is science ......nor is fear. I'll never know what "god" is in this human experience.... it cannot be defined. Yet I try . . . . fruitlessly I try. . . and then some moment in time it hits me like a rock in the head . In all humility ..... this is being human . I do the best I can in every given moment.

80-10-10 is just what naturally occures when most of your calories come from fruit. Fruit breakfast, fruit lunch, tender greens and very little fat for dinner.
80 percent carbs, 10 percent protein and 10 percent fat. If you just eat tons of fruit, eat as many greens as you care for, maybe a tablespoon of seeds a day, you will feel amazing and have energy through the roof.

Heres my take on the raw vs cooked argument:
As our digestive tracts shrank, our brains grew. As our digestive tract shrank, our hunting behavior grew. As our ability to process vast amounts of roughage and plant food shrank, our brains grew. Hm? I wonder what that means?
We are not monkeys. "but monkeys eat mostly veg, and they are our closest ancestors!" first of that is simply not true. Chimps hunt, kill, and eat each other. Gorillas dont even really eat bananas, most of their diet consists of greens. They all eat bugs.
Somewhere along the line, our jaws began to hurt, and sharp things began to appeal to us. It was animal protein and fat that made us smart. It free'd up so much blood from the digestive tract that the brain could do its thing.
There is no "one way" or "one thing" we should/can eat. We are designed to eat natural foods, and we should take advantage of this fact.
Grains, on the other hand......

fail ...

Extreme diets, like just eating fruit for instance, is in the long run unbalanced. People who do this re generally out of balance and trying to regain it by going to an extreme. More than likely though, it will just lead to another extreme to balance out this one. Sooner or later.... hopefully.... one finds a balanced way of eating. But, we live in such a unbalanced world today, these ways of eating are more popular than ever. But, in my view ..... they will never get to the root of ones dis-ease. this takes introspection of ones life. Simple ... yes .... but not so easy.

What I learned in my own life from extreme ways of eating is how I was motivated by fear. Fear of food, fear of getting fat, fear of become like "them" .... referring to my family who ate lots of junk. It boils down to fear of life. Food is just one way I try to fool myself into thinking I'm in control of the whole show. Ha ha.

well said !

i never thought i would find people with live brain cells on this forum !

fail ...
Oh okay, sorry for explaining what I was referring to by 80/10/10 and briefly elaborating on why I think strict raw is pretty much crap.

Extreme diets, like just eating fruit for instance, is in the long run unbalanced. People who do this re generally out of balance and trying to regain it by going to an extreme. More than likely though, it will just lead to another extreme to balance out this one. Sooner or later.... hopefully.... one finds a balanced way of eating. But, we live in such a unbalanced world today, these ways of eating are more popular than ever. But, in my view ..... they will never get to the root of ones dis-ease. this takes introspection of ones life. Simple ... yes .... but not so easy.

What I learned in my own life from extreme ways of eating is how I was motivated by fear. Fear of food, fear of getting fat, fear of become like "them" .... referring to my family who ate lots of junk. It boils down to fear of life. Food is just one way I try to fool myself into thinking I'm in control of the whole show. Ha ha. I'm not "god".. . nor is food.... nor is cycling.....nor is science ......nor is fear. I'll never know what "god" is in this human experience.... it cannot be defined. Yet I try . . . . fruitlessly I try. . . and then some moment in time it hits me like a rock in the head . In all humility ..... this is being human . I do the best I can in every given moment.

spoken like a yogi :thumb:

Do what feels good, but be careful. I dated a raw foodist cyclist and left her in the dust on the climbs. I like good food so I find the stuff dreadfully boring (there are only so many ways you can cut up and reassemble something). Your body is a temple, make sure the offerings match the decor.

Do what feels good, but be careful. I dated a raw foodist cyclist and left her in the dust on the climbs. I like good food so I find the stuff dreadfully boring (there are only so many ways you can cut up and reassemble something). Your body is a temple, make sure the offerings match the decor.
So deep....
I agree, I don't follow some theory of food, I just try to stay away from the obviously unhealthy things, and try to stick with unprocessed foods, are at least as little processing as possible...I stinking love bread!
Also I've been eating more fruits and vegetables lately, and the effect is noticeable, I feel a lot more awake/energized than before, so I think I'll keep that up.

I read your blog. Do you honestly think a small company like VM or BT employees a large team of $100,000/yr engineers while companies like Braun and the other name brands who make the $40 blenders cant afford to?
Your whole blog = epic fail based upon many of your arguments and conclusions.

By the way I use a BT for my green smoothies. Both VT and BT are good, i'd be happy with either.
If you want to supplement protein, try hemp seed, its not a dairy waste/byproduct like whey is, and tastes better. Its more expensive, but us $100k+ engineers can afford it.

I think I also read you've only been doing this 2 weeks? I tend to discount the posts of anyone whos just jumped onto a 'new to them' bandwagon and start touting it as the best thing ever. But maybe I'm just cynical :) Enjoy your blender. Makes great ice cream too.

after being mostly raw for maybe 2 weeks i decided to fry some chicken ( because i have about 10 pounds of it frozen from like last year ) and to complete the picture fry some potatoes with it as well ...

after i had it i felt hung over.

All fruit, vegetables, and whey protein to fried chicken... good call.

I went from riding weekly centuries to running a marathon and I got shin splints from hell! Unbelievable, it must be because running is a worthless sport.

I read your blog. Do you honestly think a small company like VM or BT employees a large team of $100,000/yr engineers while companies like Braun and the other name brands who make the $40 blenders cant afford to?

engineering quality IMO has more to do with profit margins than sales volume. apple and porsche are small compared to microsoft and GM in terms of volume but huge in terms of margins. i don't think you would dispute that iPhone > Zune or Cayman > Camaro.

besides in the commercial blender sector Vita-Mix is the biggest company anyway, just like Apple is the biggest company in premium computer market and Porsche the biggest company in sports cars market.



By the way I use a BT for my green smoothies. Both VT and BT are good, i'd be happy with either.

don't remember stating otherwise.


If you want to supplement protein, try hemp seed, its not a dairy waste/byproduct like whey is, and tastes better. Its more expensive, but us $100k+ engineers can afford it.

i'm glad you can afford it. i can't. i tried it and really liked it but the price is too much. i would certainly be using it if my budget allowed. by the way i am referring to whole hemp seeds - not hemp protein. i use seeds for the essential fatty acids, not protein.

Us humans have an omnivore mouth and gut. If one wishes to eat something different, well more power to ya, but you have to make sure you're getting the proper nutrition.
I've been a vegan vegetarian (mostly-for a while i vacillated between lacto-veg and vegan) for a couple of years. i lost a bunch of weight, still have a bunch to go, and i get my blood drawn regularly to monitor my nutrition levels.
I probably eat a 75% raw diet. fresh fruit and salads are a part of my daily diet. and by salad i don't mean a few pieces of leaf lettuce smothered in dressing. i mean lots of greens, broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, onion, carrot etc. i make my own dressing.
as for cooked foods, i have whole wheat pasta, brown rice, beans etc. i roast root veggies too. '
I'm also into juicing. dark greens, carrots, a little fruit. daily.
a Vita Mix or similar blender plus a good juicer ( i have an Omega 8004) is a must, IMO.