Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Randonneuring bike -- difficult decision

So I am in the market for a light touring / commuting bike. I currently have a Felt F35R alu racing bike, and living in boston, is not the bike for doing much of anything other than fast rides and crits. So here is what my thoughts on a bike are:

I want a perfect, "one bike to rule them all" type deal. I do not race, and i do not plan on doing touring past a weekend camping trip. I do want a bike that will be able to ride on group rides, and keep up with friends when doing fast rides around the city. One large thing is that I will be commuting several days a week on this, about 17 hilly miles each way (on crappy roads). and the alu frame i have now is just harsh and a backpack full of work clothes is annoying. I also would like to get into randonneuring, the idea of fast pace and long distance, but not competing sounds great. so in summary, I want:

-rack mounts (not for loaded touring, just for weekend travel or carrying a bag to work)
-ability to fit larger tires with fenders
-decent geometry for going fast (not the real slack touring)

So really, what are my options? There are a multitude of custom builders in the city (Geekhouse (http://geekhousebikes.com/), Royal H (http://www.royalhcycles.com), Icarus (http://cargocollective.com/icarusframes), Indie Fab, ....). All of these groups can build beautiful bikes for around $1600-2200. But really, that just seems like too much. What are some other viable options to fill this bike void in my life.

A nice cyclecross bike ought to provide you with this. i use mine for club rides (and have no trouble keeping up, if i'm not out in the lead), rando, hauling my kid around (100 extra pounds in a trailer), and daily commuting. taking off the rack (fenders stay on) is about all i do to change my bike from commute to club ride.

FWIW, i ride a Salsa La Cruz, but there are plenty of other available one-bike-to-rule-them-all bikes. Kona, Soma, Surly, Salsa, and bunches of others all offer CX bikes in your range.

So here is what my thoughts on a bike are:

I want a perfect, "one bike to rule them all" type deal.

All of these groups can build beautiful bikes for around $1600-2200. But really, that just seems like too much. What are some other viable options to fill this bike void in my life.

There's no such thing as a perfect "one bike to rule them all" type deal. You've got to have at least two bicycles, and there are a lot of bicycles that would fit the bill ... take a look at the Your Century Bicycle sticky thread. You're going to get all sorts of opinions on this, but have a look at Sport Touring/Audax/Randonneuring bicycles ... like the Marinoni Sportivo, for example.

And $1600-$2200 is fairly inexpensive.

There's no such thing as one bike that will perfectly fit what you're describing. Your Felt is going to be fairly racy, which makes it good for the group rides and fast riding you say you like to do. By comparison, anything made to take a decent amount of cargo is going to feel slower and more tank-like. It will not be as twitchy and responsive.

In theory, you can complete a century on just about any bike. So before you run out and buy a new bike, I'd try to make the bike (or bikes?) you have work. If you want to go bike camping, experiment while there's nice summer weather. You'll be able to get a lot more specific about what you need out of a new bike when you work your ass off with this one.

You need two bikes.

One go-fast bike for group rides and faster century rides. This bike should have a compact double crankset.

One light-touring bike for credit-card touring, rainy days and hilly or more relaxed century rides. This bike should have a triple crankset.

I have three bikes: A titanium road bike with a standard double, a steel Cyclocross bike with a road triple set-up for hilly century rides and a vintage light-touring bike set up for commuting with a modern 20 speed drivetrain.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/2010bikepictures009.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/Somka2x2009.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/2010bikepictures016.jpg

Michael

I want a perfect, "one bike to rule them all" type deal
This was somewhat facetious, I know that it doesnt exist. I am not really going to be touring further than going camping for the weekend, with a tent and sleeping bag.
I was looking at the century thread, and it just seemed like such a range from full carbon to loaded tourer. What i want if like in the middle of steel road bike and tourer.


And $1600-$2200 is fairly inexpensive.
In the overall scene, for custom bikes, not it is not too expensive, but i am not really sure that i need to spend that much for a frame. What is the direction for stock frames, new or from a time gone by?

Viper, I'll go against the grain and say that you actually can have a 'do-it-all' bike, given your requirements, which are fairly middle of the road. Since you say that you won't do anything more than a weekend tour, you don't need a beefy full touring bike; and it's perfectly fine to ride a sport tourer or club racer on a group ride.

In the Boston series, we see a lot of folks who finish these rides on steeds that do not easily fall into the standard 'racing' bike stereotype. Some of our fastest riders (including ones who notched first finishes for the Shenandoah 1200 and are Charly Miller level PBP riders) did their rides on Rivendell Rambouillets, Bob Jacksons and Schwinn World Travelers. Could they post better times if they were on a sportier bike with 'roadier' gearing? maybe. maybe not. There's more to your speed than the bike that you rode.

Generally speaking, if you don't want to spend a lot of money, I think you'd be fine with building up a Surly crosscheck or a Salsa Vaya or Casseroll. If you want to go custom, I would still lean towards veteran hands like IF over Geekhouse or Icarus.

I like Marty and I think he and his posse have a good attitude, but they are still young and learning on the job about what works for them and what doesn't. The new generation of Boston builders have gotten their start building track bikes and know that world well. The world of brevets and distance riding is a whole other game. IF's been in that game for many years, and they'll know how to take care of you. I'd also recommend ANT as Mike's apparently back to building touring and club racer bikes after being on a 'roadster'/'town bike only' kick for the last few years.

Forget all that other stuff. You want one of these:

http://www.renehersebicycles.com/Randonneur%20bikes.htm

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/Boulder700full.jpg

Hand made in the USofA (by "W..." Precision Cycles in "W..." WI). Geometry and tubing optimized for long distance comfort AND performance. Room for decent sized (700x30c) tires AND fenders. AND it got a rave review in Bicycle Quarterly.

Available for 700c or 650b. And only $1380. What more could you want? There's one on my Xmas list...

SP
Bend, OR

Take a look at the VO polyvalent on www.velo-orange.com (http://www.velo-orange.com) , or the Rvendell Sam Hillbourne, at www.rivbike.com (http://www.rivbike.com) . Harris has Hillbournes in stock, as well as the Surly Crosscheck.

My "one bike to rule them all" is a Surly Cross Check, but here's the trade-off:

It's pretty good at everything, but perfect for nothing.

It's a comfortable brevet bike, but it's on the heavy side and not designed for carrying a front bag so it can be a little wobbly above certain speeds depending on the load I'm carrying. For really long distances, the higher center of gravity can start to feel "tippy" when you're tired.

It's a comfortable century bike, but definitely overweight when it comes to climbing against the speedy people on carbon dream machines.

It's a good commuter, but the stays are short for carrying full panniers and there's no off-the-shelf option for a front low-rider rack.

It's a decent light-tourer, but again, see the pannier comment.

Take a look at the VO polyvalent on www.velo-orange.com (http://www.velo-orange.com) , or the Rvendell Sam Hillbourne, at www.rivbike.com (http://www.rivbike.com) . Harris has Hillbournes in stock, as well as the Surly Crosscheck.

Why the Polyvalent over the rando for VO, why the sam hillbourne over the a. homer hilsen?

Problem i have with the Cross check is the bb being so high, and the weight.

Personally I think something along the lines of the Soma ES should fit your requirements pretty well.

My dream "one bike to rule them all" would have to be either the surly Pacer (for quicker rides), or the Masi Speciale Randonneur. Both would go with 28 or 32c tires and fenders, racks, and bar end shifters. with the Masi, I'd ride it as-is. With the Pacer, I'd probably build it up as a mountain triple (175mm cranks with a 28X38X48 triple), 7 or 8 speed freewheel or cassette, bar end shifters, Campy brakes and levers, and 36 spoke wheels. I'd also go with the widest Nitto Noodle bar I could, and a 100mm quill stem. For either, I'd consider rebuilding the front wheel with a dynohub.

It would be good as a commuter, club bike, and distance bike. Were I to get only one, it'd probably be the custom built Pacer.

Why the Polyvalent over the rando for VO, why the sam hillbourne over the a. homer hilsen?

Problem i have with the Cross check is the bb being so high, and the weight.

What's the problem with a high BB and 30 lbs? Both of my distance/fast/drop bar bikes run around 32 lbs with plastic fenders and a medium Minnehaha saddlebag (unloaded). I don't seem to find much of a problem keeping up with lighter bikes.

Something else to consider is that it seems that the more laid back the geometry, the more weight you're naturally going to get. Also, building a bike with more robust parts naturally lends to more weight.

Viper, I was going to suggest the VO rando frame. I think it is exactly what you need. I personally would be absolutely content with it as my one bike for the situations you describe.

You might also consider the Ebisu (http://www.jitensha.com/eng/aboutframes_e.html) frames available through Jitensha Studio.

Good luck!

*you* don't need two bikes, and you don't need to spend that much for a frame. there are plenty of worthy less-expensive frames that will do the same job just as well. i can't tell you how many extra-fancy bikes i see on the road during club rides or centuries with their extra-fancy riders; it's just bluffery. as for fast(er) club rides, i've ridden my ~30lb bike alongside carbon weight-weenies without a problem; sure, every group has its Lance-wannabees, but we just let them zip on ahead.

if you're unhappy with your Felt, there are plenty of options, as pointed out. A CX bike fits your demands: rack mounts, wide tyres with fenders, and a geometry that is not TT but also not touring. You can find CX frames in weight-weenie Ti, AL, and even steel. Or you can get the same frame in heavy "heirloom"-quality steel. Moots, Co-Motion, Salsa and Soma fit the former, while Surly (among others) the latter.

On the other hand, there may be ways to refit your Felt. A more comfy saddle, a more forgiving fork (if you're running a straight AL fork), changing stem height, or changing handlebar type. You can even find p-clamps to mount a rack, albeit not for heavy loads (then again, you're in it for weekend CC touring, and not pan-Asian tours, so it'll probably be fine).

Lastly, you could get a touring frame, and outfit it with weight-weenie parts, and possibly build a sub-20lb tourer, which would be plenty plenty fast for club rides (but why waste the cash on a gruppo that's designed for weight and not longevity?). Let's face it, in the end it isn't about your bike, it's about *you* (i.e., your thighs, lungs, saddle time, etc.); a bike should only help you do it as best as you can.

Problem i have with the Cross check is the bb being so high, and the weight.

It's really not a concern. The high BB main issue becomes swinging your leg back over the saddle when you're tired and your legs are like lead.
The weight? Pfff. It's negligible, and for the price I'm certainly not going to complain.

My "one bike to rule them all" is a Surly Cross Check, but here's the trade-off:

It's pretty good at everything, but perfect for nothing.

actually, i'd like to point out that it's absolutely perfect at being pretty good at everything! the Surly has a steady following, which it has earned in every respect. a great bike for all occasions that require a great bike for all occasions!

I vote for the Specialized TriCross Comp, but get the shop to put a triple crankset on it for you. It'll handle commuting duty no problem, is comfortable for long rides, and the geometry is still more responsive than an all-out tourer, though not as nimble as a real race bike. I love mine, although I've modified it almost beyond recognition :).

I vote for the Specialized TriCross Comp, but get the shop to put a triple crankset on it for you. It'll handle commuting duty no problem, is comfortable for long rides, and the geometry is still more responsive than an all-out tourer, though not as nimble as a real race bike. I love mine, although I've modified it almost beyond recognition :).Not looking for an ALU bike. Steel!

Looking at the Soma ES, Soma Stanyan (http://www.somafab.com/stanyan.html), and the VO Rando. thoughts?

Those are all nice bikes and I'd be glad to have any one of them, but thanks to the weak pound you can get a Bob Jackson for around $600. That's $150 or so less than the VO, for a much nicer frame.

I'd also say that if you can afford it, you should seriously think about a custom. I've certainly never heard anyone who had one say they thought it was a bad use of money.

Looking at the Soma ES, Soma Stanyan (http://www.somafab.com/stanyan.html), and the VO Rando. thoughts?


While the Stanyan is a great loaded touring bike, it will will feel sluggish in a group ride. I'd stick with the ES.

Looking at the Soma ES, Soma Stanyan (http://www.somafab.com/stanyan.html), and the VO Rando. thoughts?

I'd go with the Soma ES. I use my Bianchi Imola as a good steel all-in-one.

Salsa Casseroll.

C'mon guys... get a grip. People are giving the OP some silly advice in this thread and a lot of it is just downright wrong.

You guys are swearing that certain bikes are good for this or not good for that... way too heavy compared to this other bike... you'll die a horrible death if you ride this bike more than 50 miles. Claiming that one bike is for loaded touring and another is better for fast club rides... when they're nearly identical bikes.

This is reality:
The bikes that you're looking at tend to be very similar in both weight and geometry. For example, the Soma ES, Salsa Casseroll, and Surly Pacer have very similar geometry and their naked frames weigh within 6 ounces of one another! But folks here are claiming that one is clearly better than another... bah! I'd wager that any one of these will be great for you. Quit stressing over 6 freaking ounces!

I learned a lesson very early in my cycling life. I bought my first "real" bike in 1983... a Trek 520 full on touring bike. Long stretched out frame with mile long chainstays and heavy cantilever brakes. I even strapped on a Blackburn rack to the back.

I raced that bike in my first organized event... a "Run-Ride" type of biathlon thing. I was young and insane... and I rode my Trek tourer complete with rack. I passed a lot of celeste colored bikes to turn in the fastest bike leg of the entire field. You know why I won the bike leg? Because I didn't know that my bike was supposed to be slow.

So buy one and ride, bro... just ride it.

Why the Polyvalent over the rando for VO, why the sam hillbourne over the a. homer hilsen?

Problem i have with the Cross check is the bb being so high, and the weight.

I didn't mention the Hilsen because it seemed that price was a consideration. Nor did I mention the Atlantis, which is also a versitile bike. I haven't read much about the VO Rando, but the last time I stopped in at Harris they were building one up for a customer, so they might know about it.

Bicycle Quarterly has featured a few do-it-all bikes. One was a Grand Bois "urban bike" , and another was Alex Wetmore"s custom built by a North West builder, perhaps Ivy(?).

C'mon guys... get a grip. People are giving the OP some silly advice in this thread and a lot of it is just downright wrong.

You guys are swearing that certain bikes are good for this or not good for that... way too heavy compared to this other bike... you'll die a horrible death if you ride this bike more than 50 miles. Claiming that one bike is for loaded touring and another is better for fast club rides... when they're nearly identical bikes.

This is reality:
The bikes that you're looking at tend to be very similar in both weight and geometry. For example, the Soma ES, Salsa Casseroll, and Surly Pacer have very similar geometry and their naked frames weigh within 6 ounces of one another! But folks here are claiming that one is clearly better than another... bah! I'd wager that any one of these will be great for you. Quit stressing over 6 freaking ounces!

I learned a lesson very early in my cycling life. I bought my first "real" bike in 1983... a Trek 520 full on touring bike. Long stretched out frame with mile long chainstays and heavy cantilever brakes. I even strapped on a Blackburn rack to the back.

I raced that bike in my first organized event... a "Run-Ride" type of biathlon thing. I was young and insane... and I rode my Trek tourer complete with rack. I passed a lot of celeste colored bikes to turn in the fastest bike leg of the entire field. You know why I won the bike leg? Because I didn't know that my bike was supposed to be slow.

So buy one and ride, bro... just ride it.

Excellent advice! I've also gotten the "you're gonna ride that??" but then there is a saying that the young guy who shows up at the trailhead with the cheapest bike is probably going to kick everybody else's a$$es.

Once you're in the ballpark it's really more about the motor, just make sure the frame has all the eyelets, appeals to you and fits properly.

So with everything, i think i need to be fit, and try some of these bikes out. What are the best resources for fitting yourself for this type of long distance bike?

Where can you get Salsa bikes? closest dealer is not even close to me.

and with Bob Jacksons that cheap right now (brilliant idea dr. spectrum), i am leaning very heavily towards that an Audax End-End (http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=44), i mean, fully lugged, nice paint, and bj quality.

... and bj quality.

Yep. Hard to find that kind of quality these days.

Yep. Hard to find that kind of quality these days.that or a quality bj?? :-O

Looking at the Soma ES, Soma Stanyan (http://www.somafab.com/stanyan.html), and the VO Rando. thoughts?

The VO Rando is designed to handle nicely while riding with a handlebar bag. If you're going to start riding rando, a handlebar bag is very nice to have because it makes it easier to eat while riding and also to take clothes off and on while riding as weather/temperature fluctuates. Many people ride rando without a handlebar bag. I used to do that, but even then I designed a little musette bag to hang underneath my aerobars so that I had somewhere to put food and the occasional spare clothing item. Many people (including me) ride bikes for randonneuring that are not optimized for a handlebar bag. But if you're buying a new bike, there's no downside to buying one optimized for a handlebar bag for the kind of use you plan (commute/rando/light touring).

The Boulder Bicycle rando bike that someone posted is very similar geometry but nicer quality build.

I've never weighed any of my bikes... just never found it that important... but this thread got me curious. So on my lunch break, I took my Surly Pacer down to the UPS shipping place and had them weigh it for me.

I took no heroic measures to save weight on the build... Ultegra hubs/Open Pro rims... Ultegra drivetrain with Bontrager cyclocross race crank... Bontrager carbon fork.

I weighed it ready to ride... not stripped down.


Gear on board:

Brooks B-17 Imperial saddle
Carradice Barley saddlebag
Spare tube
Set of 3 tire levers
Multi-tool
CO2 inflator w/ 2 cartridges
Reflective vest
Spare pair of clean dry socks
Sigma wireless computer
PlanetBike Super Flash

With that load, it tipped the scales at 24 pounds 2 ounces.

Just for perspective... the bikes in the pro peleton of the 70's hovered around the 21 pound mark.

Excellent advice! I've also gotten the "you're gonna ride that??" but then there is a saying that the young guy who shows up at the trailhead with the cheapest bike is probably going to kick everybody else's a$$es.

Once you're in the ballpark it's really more about the motor, just make sure the frame has all the eyelets, appeals to you and fits properly.

It doesn't have to be a young guy. There's a guy who's probably 20 years my senior who shows up for brevets on his early 80s Peugeot singlespeed conversion with the beat-up orange paint job, and consistently finishes ahead of me.

To add to the noise... ;)

This doesn't have to be a hard decision. Similar to what Hydrated says, the differences between these bikes are truly miniscule. It's mostly that when we are faced with a dizzying array of options, we tend to exaggerate minor differences far out of their actual importance in order to justify our choices. In other words, unless you end up with a bike that doesn't fit you properly, it will be hard to end up with a bad bike.

That said, if you really intend to do fast rides with your buddies, I say keep the Felt for the fast rides and as a backup for your commutes.

If you're doing more mellow group rides, you can pretty easily get by with many cross bikes -- the aforementioned Surly CC, Specialized Tricross, Bianchi Volpe a few others.

Despite the kvetching and caveats, there is no doubt those bikes can handle commutes, weekend tours, recreational rides and brevets. People have successfully used cross bikes for all of those tasks and more for decades. Weight is a non-issue; I've passed plenty of weight weenies on their sub-18 lb carbon fiber wonders on my 26 lb steel bike. Not that I'm a monster cyclist, just that in most cases the performance effect of a few pounds is virtually negligible.

There's a ton of overlap in what you want with those kind of rides, and cross bikes happen to fit those roles reasonably well. Don't sweat it, just get a bike that fits, matches your budget, has a good component mix, and of course looks good. ;)

Looking at the Soma ES, Soma Stanyan (http://www.somafab.com/stanyan.html), and the VO Rando. thoughts?

I would personally be relatively happy with any of them. I don't really care for TIG welded bikes so rank the ES in third place, though they do make fine bikes. I also don't have any use for sloping top tubes and oversize head tubes, so given a choice I would still take the VO. Those are personal foibles more than serious issues, though.

I would personally be relatively happy with any of them. I don't really care for TIG welded bikes so rank the ES in third place, though they do make fine bikes. I also don't have any use for sloping top tubes and oversize head tubes, so given a choice I would still take the VO. Those are personal foibles more than serious issues, though.

Yeah... but those polished lugs on the Stanyan sure are sexy... oooooooo... shiny!

I've never weighed any of my bikes... just never found it that important... but this thread got me curious. So on my lunch break, I took my Surly Pacer down to the UPS shipping place and had them weigh it for me.

I took no heroic measures to save weight on the build... Ultegra hubs/Open Pro rims... Ultegra drivetrain with Bontrager cyclocross race crank... Bontrager carbon fork.

I weighed it ready to ride... not stripped down.


Gear on board:


Brooks B-17 Imperial saddle
Carradice Barley saddlebag
Spare tube
Set of 3 tire levers
Multi-tool
CO2 inflator w/ 2 cartridges
Reflective vest
Spare pair of clean dry socks
Sigma wireless computer
PlanetBike Super Flash


With that load, it tipped the scales at 24 pounds 2 ounces.

Just for perspective... the bikes in the pro peleton of the 70's hovered around the 21 pound mark.

To add to the perspective, my '79 Raleigh Professional with tubulars, a Brooks B17, and absolutely nothing on the bike that it didn't come with weighed 21.34 lbs on my bathroom scale. I'd be that if you stripped it, that Pacer would be hovering close to that.

Are you using fenders?

To add to the perspective, my '79 Raleigh Professional with tubulars, a Brooks B17, and absolutely nothing on the bike that it didn't come with weighed 21.34 lbs on my bathroom scale. I'd be that if you stripped it, that Pacer would be hovering close to that.

Are you using fenders?I do have a '75 Track professional (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3702346895_1af90d6447_o.jpg), great bikes. Wish i had just the professional. in it's last incarnation:

Yeah... but those polished lugs on the Stanyan sure are sexy... oooooooo... shiny!

That's an impressive frame, especially for the price.

To add to the perspective, my '79 Raleigh Professional with tubulars, a Brooks B17, and absolutely nothing on the bike that it didn't come with weighed 21.34 lbs on my bathroom scale. I'd be that if you stripped it, that Pacer would be hovering close to that.

Are you using fenders?

You're prolly right about the Pacer's stripped down weight. I have a '78 Raleigh Competition GS that I'm building up, and I'll bet it won't be any lighter than the Pacer minus the saddlebag. Of course the Pacer doesn't have the panache of the Raleigh!

No fenders on the Pacer. I have two fendered bikes for nasty roads already, and I'm going to max out the Pacer's tire size as soon as these tires wear out. Maybe nice 32's or a set of Challenge clinchers.

IMO the issue isn't weight, it's flexibility - or lack thereof. I had a Surly and it rode like an I-beam. Much too stiff for all-day comfort, at least for me. I much prefer thin wall, standard diameter tubing.

IMO the issue isn't weight, it's flexibility - or lack thereof. I had a Surly and it rode like an I-beam. Much too stiff for all-day comfort, at least for me. I much prefer thin wall, standard diameter tubing.

I'm pretty heavy, and I'm a masher - I like light bikes, but I find that super thin tubing is really willowy. My two distance bikes are Tange 4130 (oversized tubing) and Ishiwata triple butted tubing - they both weigh about 30 lbs, but they're also stiff as a board. Again, it's preference - to each his own.

I have just purchased a VO Rando frame. Steve Rex at Rex Cycle in Sacramento is building it up for me. I will report back with impressions and pictures in the next few weeks.

Jesse

Where can you get Salsa bikes? closest dealer is not even close to me.


Salsa is distributed by QBP, which means 99% of all LBSs in the US can order you one (i.e., any bike shop is a "dealer"). Shop around, as in my case it was roughly 40% less to buy a frame online than to support my LBS (i really tried, but my LBS clearly wasn't trying to win my business). You can get fitted normally (however you determine your frame size), and then adjust for the sloping top tubes manually; or give Salsa a call or send them an email---they're right friendly Minnesota folk.

You need to find one of these -

1976

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4625702968_d1c5eb046d_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/4625098561_17ec350e4b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4625100075_3b2d3ef504_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4625100687_f02853bcd4_b.jpg

1980

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2799959409_b45b483686_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2800808748_a574f4ea5c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3039/2799960479_68ef2050cb_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3258/2799959829_ea30e50509_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2799959679_77b0ce7a8c_b.jpg

I have to throw my vote in for the Surly Pacer. It's plenty fast, climbs well, responsive but stable, tracks well, and if you build it up really light, you can get it down to about 17.5 pounds sans bags and saddle.

it is always interesting to hear all the comments. One of local brevet riders has a bianchi volpe. He has no car. He has toured with it. He rode two 1200k rando's last year and he giggles when folks teased him about his heavy rando bike and passed them all on steep climbs. He rides with a 45/30 chainring set up and a wide cluster. So often we just forget the impact of a good engine and some upgraded lightweight parts on a simple frame. At every brevet there are loads of people on simple inexpensive bikes (as well as some ultralight bikes). I like the Soma, Surly, VO line of frames for that. Affordable and with multi use capabilities. However, it is nice, when you are sold on riding to turn to a local or not so local builder and have a custom bike with a specific set of requirements, but that takes a pocketbook and a "damn the torpedoes full speed ahead" attitude with dollar cost.

I went with an REI bike, a Randonee. I paid $675 out the door with a lot of coupons, rebates, kickbacks, a gift card, etc.

I like it pretty good so far, hope to put a century on it this summer.

I have decided to go with Royal H, a local guy. make beautiful lugged bikes on his own, and the high end carbon stuff for Seven. I am debating right now of what i want to do for components. I have a felt road bike with an ultegra 10speed group that i could put on it. or if i should get something that can handle a more drastic front chainring difference.

Also, i think i am going for some paul braze on brakes (or some mafac competitions if i can find a decent set), velo-orange front bag rack, probably honjo fenders.