Mountain Biking - XTR RD Choices

So I want to upgrade my RD....currently running an XT on a 1999 Kona Explosif, and I'll admit, I'm a newb to the do-it-yourself mechanics---just rebuilt the RD this weekend for the first time.

Question is.....what is the difference between the Shimano XTR rear derailleur choices?
On the Shimano website they have:
RD-M952-GS
RD-M952-SGS (wide range)
RD-M953-GS
RD-M953-SGS (wide range)

The only difference I can see is that the inner/outer plate is longer on the "wide range". Regardless, I'd just like to know why 4 versions are available, and pick the appropriate one for my hardtail.

Well what cassette are you running? Are you running 1 2 or 3 rings up front? Do you like Rapidrise? I don't want to be an ass but we're not here to pick your parts for you. All the information you need is available all over the web, and probably mostly right on shimano.com

Thanks for not being an ass, Seely :rolleyes: I was actually hoping to pick my own parts, just wanted a brief explaination of the differences between the models.

Anyways:

1) Running a 9 spd XT cassette
2) Running 3 rings up front, debating if I should drop to 2 and a bash guard.

And, most importantly,

3) I have no idea what RapidRise is, that's kind of what I was hoping someone could explain for me.

Why are you spending money on an XTR RD? XT will be just fine and you'll cry a lot less when a stick rips it off on the trail. Just my $.02

Riderx:
I've heard that about other XTR parts, but I wasn't sure if it applied to the RD, seeing at how much abuse it will take.

Regardless, for my own piece of mind, I'm still looking to upgrade to XTR.

Either none of you guys have a clue what the difference actually is or you're too caught up in correcting him or giving your opinion to actually answer his question.

I would like to knwo the difference, as well. See, to us uninitiated newbs who don't quite speak the language of mechanicese, it's hard to really know what to look for as an explanation on their site; which is geared for those in the know. :)

I am not a mechanic, but my understanding is that the spring action on rapid rise derailleurs is opposite that of the derailleurs you are familiar with. To put it another way instead of pulling the derailleur to the larger cogs you pull it to the smaller cogs, and the spring action rapidly rises the deraileur to the larger cogs.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the idea is that shifting to easier gears is usually something that is more of an emergency than shifting to higher gears (like when you are bomobing down a hill hit a curve, and on the other side of the curve there is a 20% grade you were not ready for). The rapid rise derailleurs are supposed to make down shifts smoother.

Wide range is pretty self explanatory, and refers to the range of gearing that the derailleur can handle (lower lows and higher highs; although I think you mostly get lower climbing gears).

As for the actualy numbers of the derailleurs, I have no idea what refers to what, but you could probably get the info from Shimano's website.

Hopefully this post did not contain too much misinformation.

Either none of you guys have a clue what the difference actually is or you're too caught up in correcting him or giving your opinion to actually answer his question.Actually, I don't want to see him waste his money on needless upgrades. If I was really too caught up in offering my opinion I would have told him to give Shimano the finger and go single speed.:eek:

FYI - a rapid rise derailluer requires a rapid rise shifter.

Back to my original question though, why do you want to upgrade? Is your current derailluer broken? If not you shouldn't even be worrying about it.

Actually, I don't want to see him waste his money on needless upgrades. If I was really too caught up in offering my opinion I would have told him to give Shimano the finger and go single speed.:eek:

FYI - a rapid rise derailluer requires a rapid rise shifter.

Back to my original question though, why do you want to upgrade? Is your current derailluer broken? If not you shouldn't even be worrying about it.

Please, don't take offense as none was really meant. I am rarely malicious and when I am, I would like to think I have good cause.

I was once told that the XTR componants shift smoother. Personally, on my new bike, I am getting SRAM X.9 componants. :) Perhaps he has a bunch of money to spend on new componants. Perhaps he isn't hard core about offroading and wants the XTR as a type of Status. Why not? I see people all day long with expensive race spec equipment on their cars when there isn't a need. Or they buy simply because of name rather if they will need it or not. Tires, for instance. Who needs ZR rated tires on their daily commuter? I would hope they do not go 180 down the interstate to work. ;)

Greenfix : Thanks, man. That's pretty much what I was looking for. I like the idea of RR, and I run a 9-spd cassette with 3 chainrings, so RR wide range may be what I'm after.

Riderx : My XT derailleur works fine right now, but it's the original from 1999, so it's pretty beat up. I'm in the process of replacing old/worn parts, and this is on my list of "to do". I've had some recent shifting/slippage problems, and am troubleshooting my way through the possibilities. Yes, I know XT is cheaper (and I may one day give Shimano the bird, but until then, I'll go with it) but I'd like to have the piece of mind that I'm running the best components that aren't going to die when I need them. I bought this bike for the frame, with the intention of replacing everything on it, eventually, with what *I* think I need.

Yes, I'm a newb. And no, it's not a status thing. :D

Anyways, thanks for your replies, guys. I like this forum because people aren't afraid to give their 2 cents and worry about offending anyone.

Regular deraileurs push into easy gears quickly (in 2, 3 or 4 clicks) (imo opinion the best way)
Rapid rise is the opposite. Shifts into hard gears quickly, pretty useless haha. You don't need a new shifter though, it still works in a 2:1 ratio (unfortunately)

252 is normal I believe
253 is rapid rise

GS - Short cage derailuer only good to a 34 tooth front ring I believe
SGS - Long cage Deraileur...up to 46...well big anyways...

As for my opinion. I don't run xtr, to fragile, to expensive. But hey I sometimes run a deraileur with a zip tie in one gear cause I am too cheap to buy a new deraileur :)

OK Kona, I'll give you a few more cents :), I've been in the MTB game for a long time, so hopefully it's worthwhile. Just because XTR is the top end doesn't mean it is going to last the longest. XTR is top level racing stuff. Racing stuff is generally (and this isn't just Shimano) built to be light weight, high performance but not necessarily long living.

5 Years off road on an XT der. is great (depends on mileage obviously). If you are having problems that are caused by the der. then it's probably just worn out.

When I look at components and compare them, I look at the law of diminishing returns. At Performance bike an XT rear der. is $72 and an XTR is $134 - almost twice as much. Will you get twice the performance out of it? No. In fact, set up properly I bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test. Will it last twice as long? Not a chance. Is it half the weight? Nah, 232g vs. 207g.

Like many other industries, you see new componets come out every year that have technology trickle down. An XT der. today is way better than the one you have from 1999. Shimano (and the fork manufacturers) love to sell everyone on the idea of the latest and greatest and the top-end stuff. But the reality is, the majority of the riders don't need and won't see any true benefit from this level of components.

Just food for thought and not meant to be a rant on Shimano.

riderx - :) Very nice. Thanks for the info; very helpful.

You don't need a new shifter though, it still works in a 2:1 ratio (unfortunately)
I stand corrected. I believe the first generation (several years ago) required a different shifter.

I stand corrected. I believe the first generation (several years ago) required a different shifter.

the only reason why I know is a buddy bought the wrong deraileur. It was backwards. Messed him up severly. He ended up taking a hammer to it and bought a good deraileur. :)



I look at the law of diminishing returns


I love that law :D



Just food for thought and not meant to be a rant on Shimano


Leave that to me. I can always whine about shimano :D

Leave that to me. I can always whine about shimano :DSo can I, I just wasn't going to do it today :D

Screw xtr or xt and get either the x.9 or x.0 shifters.

Once again, thanks Riderx :D Experience is often the best teacher, and I appreciate your advice!

Screw xtr or xt and get either the x.9 or x.0 shifters.

Huzzah!