Vintage Cranksets?
05-24-10, 01:45 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Vintage Cranksets?
I noticed the Campagnolo strada super record crankset and the Sugino mighty comp cranksets look almost exactly the same, what would be better to buy? or are they pretty much the same weight and build quality?
Do other brands make ones that look like it too? and do the campy and sugino use interchanable chain rings? I found some cranks on ebay 165mm but can't find any 46t chainrings for it.
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/...cbb5899c42.jpg
Do other brands make ones that look like it too? and do the campy and sugino use interchanable chain rings? I found some cranks on ebay 165mm but can't find any 46t chainrings for it.
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/...cbb5899c42.jpg
05-24-10, 02:27 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,401
Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 375 Times
in
162 Posts
Every crank pre- 1980 was a Campy copy.
05-24-10, 07:34 PM
#5
sultan of schwinn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 3,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
the Super Record (and Record and Gran Sport) is of much better quality (IMHO) but the Sugino is a good crank as well. They both use 144 BCD chainrings. They need different spindles (Sugino needs JIS) to work. The bottom bracket (english, italian, french, swiss) depends on the bike.
05-24-10, 07:42 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks, if I get a super record or gran sport, what bb should I buy that's under $80 and pretty good? english 68mm
No, yes, no.
the Super Record (and Record and Gran Sport) is of much better quality (IMHO) but the Sugino is a good crank as well. They both use 144 BCD chainrings. They need different spindles (Sugino needs JIS) to work. The bottom bracket (english, italian, french, swiss) depends on the bike.
the Super Record (and Record and Gran Sport) is of much better quality (IMHO) but the Sugino is a good crank as well. They both use 144 BCD chainrings. They need different spindles (Sugino needs JIS) to work. The bottom bracket (english, italian, french, swiss) depends on the bike.
05-24-10, 07:49 PM
#7
sultan of schwinn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 3,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
Last edited by EjustE; 05-24-10 at 07:53 PM.
05-24-10, 08:08 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah measure it for me when you get a chance, thanks. I guess I'll try and find a gran sport used on ebay if they have any with 165mm then a 46t chain ring
This one. But you need to know what size of spindle the crank will take. I will measure my Gran Sport tomorrow, if you want me to do so. Beware that Record and Super Record came in several varieties and all of them do not take 144 BCD chainrings
05-24-10, 08:17 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansai
Posts: 1,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
9 Posts
I sort of beg to differ on the Sugino needs JIS. I don't know about the later ones, but I'm pretty sure that the earlier Mightys at least were ISO.
05-24-10, 08:18 PM
#10
sultan of schwinn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 3,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
are you trying to do a single speed/fixed gear bike? If so, in that case the BB spindle length does not matter that much... Go with the shortest one and you just need to place the spacers in the hub accordingly. 46t chainrings of good quality will be a beast to find in 144 BCD, btw. Also, good luck trying to find one of those with 165mm arms...
05-24-10, 08:23 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah doing a fixed gear. If it's hard to find would a 165mm 46t in a super record be more common to find?
are you trying to do a single speed/fixed gear bike? If so, in that case the BB spindle length does not matter that much... Go with the shortest one and you just need to place the spacers in the hub accordingly. 46t chainrings of good quality will be a beast to find in 144 BCD, btw. Also, good luck trying to find one of those with 165mm arms...
05-24-10, 08:27 PM
#12
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,054 Times
in
1,254 Posts
165's were more common on pista cranks.
05-24-10, 08:29 PM
#13
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,584
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
The other little oddity is that they often are 171mm arms rather than 170. I don't know if they kept that odd number pattern into longer sizes (like 173.5) or if they even offered longer sizes...every one I owned was 171.
05-24-10, 08:36 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 4,420
Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 221 Post(s)
Liked 237 Times
in
129 Posts
Back in the early 70's it was very common in my area (Erie, PA) to use Sugino chainrings on the Campagnolo Strada chainrings. Given it was the Bike Boom, and parts could be in short supply, you used whatever could get your hands on, and the Sugino's were exact copies of the (I believe) Record 144 chainrings. Also, if you were doing the drillium bit on the chainrings, you tore up the Sugino's, not the Campagnolo's. I seem to remember that the Sugino chainrings cost about half the Campagnolo. On the other hand, you could (theoretically, depending on suppliers) get Campagnolo chainrings in one tooth increments.
__________________
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
05-24-10, 08:38 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So if I get one that takes 144 bcd or 151 do companies make 46t ect for them brand new still? Or I'll have to be searching for used ones like the crank arms?
05-24-10, 08:59 PM
#16
sultan of schwinn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 3,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
You can get brand new 144 BCD 46t chainrings, but the quality is mostly suspect, unless you go with brand new Sugino 46t rings that cost about $90 a pop. (Hey, the fixie market is driving up prices for old MTB big chainring sizes... if you want to get a different crank, old MTB rings are the way to go)
05-24-10, 09:04 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Okay, so it all depends on whatever crank I get will need 144 or 151 bcd, but about the bb, if my frame takes english 68, how do I figure out if it would need like 103mm 108 ect, so the chain is inline
05-24-10, 09:57 PM
#18
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,798
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,325 Times
in
837 Posts
They were 6-3/4" cranks, the metric equivalent of which = 171.45mm. Having snapped a second-generation (first with 144mm BCD) Sugino Mighty crank at the pedal eye, I have mild reservations about quality. The next revision (ca. 1973) had a bit more metal around the pedal eye, as though I was not the only person to have snapped one.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
05-24-10, 10:03 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 111
Bikes: bianchi sport sx, motobecane mirage
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
what about these instead?
i only suggest them because the last campy pista 165 crankset went for $350 on eBay...
i only suggest them because the last campy pista 165 crankset went for $350 on eBay...
05-25-10, 06:30 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1857 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
There is some debate about interchangeability, but for the best fit, JIS and ISO tapers do not fit exactly the same. If you don't want to delve in the arcane stuff, get a JIS when it's recommended and an ISO when it's recommended.
Campy essentially always takes ISO. A few Japanese cranks used ISO, but by far most of them need JIS. So some of the "Campy Nuovo Record Strada clone" cranksets needed JIS and some needed ISO.
Campy essentially always takes ISO. A few Japanese cranks used ISO, but by far most of them need JIS. So some of the "Campy Nuovo Record Strada clone" cranksets needed JIS and some needed ISO.
Last edited by Road Fan; 05-25-10 at 07:04 AM.
05-25-10, 06:47 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 111
Bikes: bianchi sport sx, motobecane mirage
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
there is a very clear explanation for that here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html
05-25-10, 07:02 AM
#23
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,054 Times
in
1,254 Posts
what about these instead?
i only suggest them because the last campy pista 165 crankset went for $350 on eBay...
i only suggest them because the last campy pista 165 crankset went for $350 on eBay...
05-25-10, 07:09 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1857 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
My opinion about BBs is that the best ones for a vintage Campy are the cup and cone BBs originally designed for it. Careful buying can easily keep the purchase below $80. Once assembled right they are the smoothest, and if maintained will last the longest for the least $$. If, as many people believe, sealed BBs need to be replaced every year, you pay for a new BB every year. If the cup/cone BB needs to be rebuilt every year, you are only out the cost of cleaning supplies, new balls, and grease, aside from providing yourself with the tools and knowledge.
05-25-10, 08:14 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right where I'm supposed to be
Posts: 1,633
Bikes: Franklin Frames Custom, Rivendell Bombadil
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times
in
127 Posts
There is some debate about interchangeability, but for the best fit, JIS and ISO tapers do not fit exactly the same. If you don't want to delve in the arcane stuff, get a JIS when it's recommended and an ISO when it's recommended.
Campy essentially always takes ISO. A few Japanese cranks used ISO, but by far most of them need JIS. So some of the "Campy Nuovo Record Strada clone" cranksets needed JIS and some needed ISO.
Campy essentially always takes ISO. A few Japanese cranks used ISO, but by far most of them need JIS. So some of the "Campy Nuovo Record Strada clone" cranksets needed JIS and some needed ISO.
https://www.minortriad.com/campagbb.html
https://www.bicycleclassics.com/bottom.html