Classic & Vintage - Re-spacing a Phil wood hub?

I've got a rear wheel with a PW hub set up for a 5 speed freewheel. I'd like to put a 6 speed on it but I need to slide the hub over a tad to do that. There's plenty of axle on the left side but I don't see how to move things around.

Bonus question, I was looking at some track cogs for another project and saw one that said it wouldn't fit Phil, Campy and several others. Campy is Italian thread, I understand that but Phil is just standard english, right?

For Q2:
IIRC there are two (maybe even three) track thread standards - but it has more to do with the thread diameter than with pitch/shape.

But despite this lack of knowledge, I can tell you I'm using DA track cogs on my fixed/fixed Phil hub

Edit: I'm back. After reading SB, the difference is not usually in the cog itself, but there are least three standards for the left-hand threaded lockring.

Sheldon Link (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_tp-z.html#trackhub)

The lock ring is highly overrated. I was taught to ride the track by an ex-pro 6-day rider back in the early 70's. He taught us never to backpedal to slow down - it's bad for the legs. I have never used a lock ring in 38 years of fixed gear riding/track racing. The cog will lot unthread as long as you have tightened it with a chain whip/cog tool. I've gone down hills, spinning up to about 60 kmh in 42x16 without the cog coming off. This allows you to use old 120 OLD threaded road hubs with track cogs for riding fixed on the road. You use the brakes to slow down and just float the pedals. I laugh when I see what people lare charging for lock rings on eBay. You just don't need them!

As for the PW hub, as long as it's a newer hub, my understanding is that you take it apart by inserting a 5mm wrench into the hollow axle and unthreading. If it's first generation PW (which is likely with a threaded 120 OLD hub), you're out of luck, it has to be sent back to Phil Wood for dissassembly. You'll probably have to get a longer right axle (for 126 OLD) and redish the wheel/build the wheel with greater dish.

Luis

I re-spaced a Phil hub once on my own so I don't know if you have to send it back to Phil - depends on how handy you are. But I am pretty sure you will need a new axle piece(s) to re-space the hub. Email customer service at Phil, they're great and will sell you the parts you need and walk you through the whole process.

For Q2:Sheldon Link (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_tp-z.html#trackhub)

Ahh, now it's all clear to me.

But I am pretty sure you will need a new axle piece(s) to re-space the hub. Email customer service at Phil, they're great and will sell you the parts you need and walk you through the whole process.

Ok, I just had another look at my hub and at the PW webpage. Looks like it takes a different axle and end caps. I didn't quite see how the allen wrenches fit into my end caps but with a little more careful grease wiping it starts to make sense. Movable washers would have been a more flexable arrangement but I guess durability is the goal here.
I'm starting to think 5 speeds is enough.

Ben,

I found a pair of PW hubs on CL a few years ago. The rear was spaced 120 and I wanted to increase it to 126. They were of a vintage before they used the allen screws in the axles. I ended up having to send the hub to PW and they replaced the bearings at the same time. Cost was about $50, but I was not shipping a wheel. Would an Ultra spaced 6 speed Suntour give you the added range?

I suppose it would, it's just that I have this little pile of freewheels here and figured another gear would be a quick simple upgrade. I have some 5 speed freewheels that will fit the bill, too.
So on that old style hub, do you have to send it back to get the bearings changed?

I suppose it would, it's just that I have this little pile of freewheels here and figured another gear would be a quick simple upgrade. I have some 5 speed freewheels that will fit the bill, too.
So on that old style hub, do you have to send it back to get the bearings changed?

Yes. At least none of my LBSs wanted to touch it. When it was re-spaced to 126mm they installed the bearings.

If its an older Phil wood hub, the axle and end caps are pressed together using a bearing press. they aren't like the F.S. axles Phil now sells. It is possible to get them apart on your own but it might have unintended consequences if something slips.

The bearing change charge is something like 35.00 and an axle re-spacing is a trade-in arrangement usually (they will keep your old axle and put in a new one). That ran around 35 in addition to the service when I had it priced last year so it was about 70 for each hub. However I was going from BMX hubs to QR 126.

Ok. It'll be a five speed for now. If I ever send it in for new bearings I'll think about an axle change then
Thanks for the info, folks.

I've both taken mine directly to PW for a bearing change (just walked in, went for lunch and picked up afterward, very nice service back then) as well as done my own.
Upside with Phil is they use their own very high grade Japanese-sourced cartridge bearings and they won't screw up the job (important if you don't have access to the tools like a big bench vise or arbor press and an assortment of sockets). Upside to doing it myself: timing and I was able to find equivalent quality bearings for low $$, I usually don't screw these jobs up, either. ;)

The lock ring is highly overrated. I was taught to ride the track by an ex-pro 6-day rider back in the early 70's. He taught us never to backpedal to slow down - it's bad for the legs. I have never used a lock ring in 38 years of fixed gear riding/track racing. The cog will lot unthread as long as you have tightened it with a chain whip/cog tool. I've gone down hills, spinning up to about 60 kmh in 42x16 without the cog coming off. This allows you to use old 120 OLD threaded road hubs with track cogs for riding fixed on the road. You use the brakes to slow down and just float the pedals. I laugh when I see what people lare charging for lock rings on eBay. You just don't need them!

As for the PW hub, as long as it's a newer hub, my understanding is that you take it apart by inserting a 5mm wrench into the hollow axle and unthreading. If it's first generation PW (which is likely with a threaded 120 OLD hub), you're out of luck, it has to be sent back to Phil Wood for dissassembly. You'll probably have to get a longer right axle (for 126 OLD) and redish the wheel/build the wheel with greater dish.

Luis

I agree about the lock ring, I never used one, BUT at the National Championships they wanted to see one, and locally no lock ring, no riding on the track.

In regard to the Phil hub, if its is an older one, I doubt Phil has the parts, they might, so it is worth a call, otherwise its a fabricate it yourself deal, it can be done, but if you don't have a lathe or access to one, punt.

Phil Wood just replaced the bearings for me in a pair of the older hubs with chromed steel barrels. Polished 'em too.

They had the parts for my 70s era hubs. No problems.