Advocacy & Safety - San Francisco SUV driver on rampage... 4 cyclists intentionally run over

This is just insane

http://www.ktvu.com/news/23776404/detail.html

Totally despicable. Now will people believe me when I compare cyclist rights to the road to a civil rights issue?

cellery,

No. That's not even close to enough.

I'm glad they're going to be OK, cause this is ridiculous. It would be bloody terrifying to have someone try to hit you with an SUV. Some people are really sucky.

Aggravated assault? This is attempted murder. What do you think happens when you hit someone with a moving vehicle?

And of course, the commenter to the article has to stress that "most bicyclists can't be bothered to obey the law"; like motorists DO, after all.........

It's really too bad that there aren't exceptions to sniper fire being illegal...........

"I'm proud that San Francisco is one of the bike-friendliest cities in the nation and we work hard to keep our city safe for cyclists and pedestrians every day," Newsom said.

That quote should say all there is to say about the state of bicycle use in America today.

Totally despicable. Now will people believe me when I compare cyclist rights to the road to a civil rights issue?

No, not even close. It's disgusting for us to compare ourselves to what happened to minorities in the past. Don't go down that road please.

Aggravated assault? This is attempted murder. What do you think happens when you hit someone with a moving vehicle?

Yup, the fact this driver did to several people should be attempted murder along with a whole slew of other felonies.
And I never understood "attempted murder" being somewhat of a lesser charge than murder. The intent is the same.

It's not like no motorist has ever run down a bicycle on purpose before. Just that in this case, he ran down four bikes in a six minute period, so we know it's not an accident.

What's scary is , had the motorist hit just ONE bike, and left it at that, it would've been reported as a "hit and run accident".

And I never understood "attempted murder" being somewhat of a lesser charge than murder. The intent is the same.

I've always wondered that. Just because the would-be murderer isn't good at being a murderer doesn't mean they deserve a break.

There is no doubt in my mind that when that animal if found he should be charged with attempted murder. Now the question is will the City Att follow thru.

Like I have stated here before, many times:

When you ride your bike in an urban environment in the USofA, you are going to war.

If you take it lightly, you will pay. This is why I do everything in my power to stay out of motorist's way even if it means breaking every law in the book. It comes down to primitive survival skills. You choose to get on a bike in the city and it is 100% your responsibility what happens to you. There are distracted idiots and crazy people everywhere. There are sharks in the water. Lions in the grass. The doors to the asylums are wide open. Act accordingly.

Probably nothing those cyclists could have done better. If some nut is out to hit us on purpose what can we do?

Like I have stated here before, many times:

When you ride your bike in an urban environment in the USofA, you are going to war.

If you take it lightly, you will pay. This is why I do everything in my power to stay out of motorist's way even if it means breaking every law in the book. It comes down to primitive survival skills. You choose to get on a bike in the city and it is 100% your responsibility what happens to you. There are distracted idiots and crazy people everywhere. There are sharks in the water. Lions in the grass. The doors to the asylums are wide open. Act accordingly.

Probably nothing those cyclists could have done better. If some nut is out to hit us on purpose what can we do?

No, Joey, riding ones bike in an urban environment in the USA is NOT like or going into war. If you want to know what it is really like to go to war I suggest that you enlist into the branch of military of your choice and request that you be sent to the Middle East. Than you can learn first hand what going into war is really like. Failing that, I suggest that you spend the day at your local VA facility talking with those Vets who have gone to war.

Also Joey as has been said in the past you and the people who ride like you are part of the problem NOT the solution. And the sooner that you and those like you, learn that the laws apply equally to all of us the better. If you don't like the way a particular law is written than write or call or both your local lawmakers and make suggestions to them on how to improve the law. Join a local or state or national advocacy group such as the League of American Bicyclists, work with them to change said laws.

Otherwise do not be surprised when the day comes that your state and local lawmakers decide to regulate bicycles and cyclists.

Also if things are as "dangerous" as you claim that they are in NOLA than you really need to consider moving to a safer area. Failing that as I've said above work WITH the system to improve the situation. But don't go around flagrantly breaking the laws and than cry foul when some motorist sees you and gets upset. You, and those who ride like you are part of the problem NOT the solution. If you want things to improve you need to obey the laws, yes, even the ones that you don't think apply or should apply to you. THAT is how you earn the respect of your local law enforcement community and from the motorists that you encounter on the road.

The incident I posted about the other day on my way home from the VA is the exception to my usual riding experiences. As more often than not when I am riding I do not get horns blown at me, I do not get cut off, I may have to "wait forever and a day" for an opening in traffic but twice now in the past two weeks I have had a female driver actually "make a hole" for me. It might have been the same young lady, I am not sure.

And yes, Joey, I ride on two major roads/highway on a regular basis. With as I said little to no negative interactions. As I am sure you could have IF you obeyed the traffic laws. You need to stop your b itching and moaning about how "unsafe the streets" are and obey the laws and guess what you just might find that when you obey the laws that the streets are actually a lot safer than you thought they were.

An update: http://www.ktvu.com/news/23797567/detail.html

Good news! He's facing four counts of attempted murder.

Good to hear that he was caught (the fact he was lying after the fact also shows no sorrow for what he has done) and that none the cyclists were actually killed.

Good to hear that he was caught (the fact he was lying after the fact also shows no sorrow for what he has done) and that none the cyclists were actually killed.

I've gotta agree with you on both counts. I too am to hear that he got caught although it would have been nice if he had turned himself in. And if he really wanted to stick to his "my car was carjacked" story he might have been better off calling in the report instead of going to the police station in person.

No, Joey, riding ones bike in an urban environment in the USA is NOT like or going into war. If you want to know what it is really like to go to war I suggest that you enlist into the branch of military of your choice and request that you be sent to the Middle East.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war. No disrespect to any branch of the military, many of whom would NEVER bike the streets of NOLA because they consider that to be suicide. Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war. No disrespect to any branch of the military, many of whom would NEVER bike the streets of NOLA because they consider that to be suicide. Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.

How many of those 26% are running red lights and stop signs? Or are weaving in and out of traffic? Or are riding against traffic? From watching your videos and seeing how close you've come to some of the pedestrians that you've passed I'm more worried about those that you encounter on a daily basis, as well as the message that you are sending to people about cyclists.

Again Joey YOU are part of the PROBLEM and IF you want things to improve you need to work WITH the system to make those changes happen.

Breaking the law because it is "safer" than obeying the law is not going to win the respect of motorists. If you want to be treated with respect than you need to show that you respect the law and the system. Otherwise when the good people of NOLA star calling for all bikes to be registered and insured and cyclists to take a class on cycling and have to pass a test to get a license to operate a bicycle on the public roads don't come b itching to us about how "unfair" it is.

Again Joey YOU are part of the PROBLEM and IF you want things to improve you need to work WITH the system to make those changes happen.

Everyone on the Internet has an opinion. You are entitled to yours.



Breaking the law because it is "safer" than obeying the law is not going to win the respect of motorists.

I don't want their respect.


How many of those 26% are running red lights and stop signs? Or are weaving in and out of traffic? Or are riding against traffic?

How many were minding their own business? Most of the ones that make the news involve cyclists being steam-rolled from behind by drunk drivers.


...I'm more worried about those that you encounter on a daily basis, as well as the message that you are sending to people about cyclists.

I would prefer to be a survivor than an ambassador in a casket.


...when the good people of NOLA star calling for all bikes to be registered and insured and cyclists to take a class on cycling and have to pass a test to get a license to operate a bicycle on the public roads don't come *****ing to us about how "unfair" it is.

As soon as they stop murdering each other for drugs maybe they will find the time for a higher calling. And if you asked the NOPD at random - officers on the street - they would tell you that biking against traffic is safer. I am not kidding.

Be a good little sheep.

Cheers.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags?
Huh? That comparison doesn't even make sense. Fatality rate per man-hour or something would make sense as a comparison. But what % of traffic fatalities are pedestrian or cyclist vs. what % of military personnel survive a tour?

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war.
The source does not claim that 26% of New Orleans cyclists/pedestrians end up in body bags. Are you really that confused?

To me, you are either statistically challenged or believe everybody else is.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war. No disrespect to any branch of the military, many of whom would NEVER bike the streets of NOLA because they consider that to be suicide. Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.

Actually probably 95% of the people coming home in body bags from the ME are military. You are comparing apples and oranges since 26% of cyclists and pedestrians are not killed yearly; they may be overrepresented in the fatalities, but that is something completely different. There are several hundred cycling fatalities every year in the US but there are 500k cycling commuters alone without counting recreational and children riding.


According to survey data from the U.S. Census Bureau, New Orleans ranks eighth among the 51 largest U.S. cities for the percentage of residents who walk or bike as their main mode of transportation.

I guess it's safe enough to be a regular form of transportation for a larger number of workers, not "suicide" as you say.

The source does not claim that 26% of New Orleans cyclists/pedestrians end up in body bags. Are you really that confused?

To me, you are either statistically challenged or believe everybody else is.

You are absolutely correct. The source does not claim that 26% of peds and cyclists end up in body bags. That would be a bit absurd. It says that 26% of "traffic fatalities" are bicyclists and pedestrians, which is exactly what Joey stated. There is a big difference.

You are absolutely correct. The source does not claim that 26% of peds and cyclists end up in body bags. That would be a bit absurd. It says that 26% of "traffic fatalities" are bicyclists and pedestrians, which is exactly what Joey stated. There is a big difference.
Then what the heck is Joey jabbering about with the rhetorical question and his declaration of war? - "Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war."

Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.

Maybe they know the way you bike.

Then what the heck is Joey jabbering about with the rhetorical question and his declaration of war? - "Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war."

9% of all trips in NO are made by foot or a bike Vs. 26%. fatalities in traffic accidents? Peds and cyclists are very vulnerable compared to people in cars which is something drivers need to understand. Still, that is a very high percentage and to call it a war seems pretty justifiable. Maybe the comparison is not the best but it has some truth to it.

Still, that is a very high percentage and to call it a war seems pretty justifiable. Maybe the comparison is not the best but it has some truth to it.
"Truth" perhaps for those with no perspective or concept of war.

"Truth" perhaps for those with no perspective or concept of war.

It's a constant fear that something bad might happen to you, right?

How many motorists do you see praying or hoping that they make it back in one piece before every drive on the road?

Maybe they know the way you bike.

I think that that might be closer to the truth.

Breaking the law because it is "safer" than obeying the law is not going to win the respect of motorists. If you want to be treated with respect than you need to show that you respect the law and the system. Otherwise when the good people of NOLA star calling for all bikes to be registered and insured and cyclists to take a class on cycling and have to pass a test to get a license to operate a bicycle on the public roads don't come b itching to us about how "unfair" it is.

Oddly, I break the law when I ride for the same safety reasons. I don;t think it's a war out there, just a road full of inattentive, distracted people driving really heavy boxes, with very little awareness other than the bumper in front of them. As for respect for the law, maybe once the majority of motorists, who are all tested and licensed, do then I will too. Enforcement can't keep up with all the moving violations I see every rush hour. Simple stuff like turn signals and looking in blind spots, you know , all that stuff you're supposed to by law in your car. Once "I didn't see him" ceases to be a legal get off card for striking a cyclist in the next lane I may consider a different approach to my cycling. Until then I will continue with my tried and true methodology that I've worked out for myself since being a messenger in the late 80's, and it's kept me pretty gosh darn safe so far. AND I'm not pissing motorists off every time I get on my bike.

26% of traffic fatalities aren't motorists?... something is indeed very wrong in NOLA.

Glad to see they are charging this guy up the wazoo, what a horror show in SF.... insanity defense, I can feel it coming.

Everyone on the Internet has an opinion. You are entitled to yours.

I don't want their respect.

If you want things to improve for cyclists we all need their respect. As has been pointed out before how do you think the majority of voters get around? Do you think they ride a bike or driver a car? They drive cars, if we want them to approve funding for bicycling infrastructure we need their respect.


How many were minding their own business? Most of the ones that make the news involve cyclists being steam-rolled from behind by drunk drivers.

Sadly, as we all know there isn't much that can be done about the drunk drivers out there. Yes, we have various laws already on the books. But we see how effective they really are.


I would prefer to be a survivor than an ambassador in a casket.

I don't want to see anyone die, but every time that we take to the streets we are ambassadors for cycling. And when it comes time to approve of financing for bicycling infrastructure who do you think they are going to remember? The majority of cyclists who obey the laws, or the handful who run red lights, stop signs and cut them while running said red lights, stop signs?


As soon as they stop murdering each other for drugs maybe they will find the time for a higher calling. And if you asked the NOPD at random - officers on the street - they would tell you that biking against traffic is safer. I am not kidding.

I somehow really doubt that.

Be a good little sheep.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]

Again if you don't like the way things are WORK to improve the situation, or move someplace that is safer.

If you want things to improve for cyclists we all need [car driver's] respect.
I don't need their respect. I also do not need them to obey every single law on the books to the maximum extent possible.

On the other hand I do need them to actually drive their cars - not try to operate a cell phone and send text messages at the same time. Or try to apply makeup, or fall asleep, or eat or drink or try to control a pet or kids, or read a map, or read anything else, or play with the radio, or have a heated argument with a passenger, and so on - just stick to one single task : drive the damned car.

If they could focus on the one task they are supposed to be doing, that would earn them my respect - I do not care if they have no respect for me.

every time that we take to the streets we are ambassadors for cycling.



Sorry but do you seriously feel this way when you strap on your helmet? Must not be many cyclists where you are. I'm not going roll around obeying the laws in order to get mowed down by a motorist who does not respect it, or sometimes even anyone else on the road seemingly.

My main goal when riding my bike is to ride my bike, not be an ambassador or advocate or whatever. There's nothing wrong with just riding a bike without any "nobler" motives than that.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war. No disrespect to any branch of the military, many of whom would NEVER bike the streets of NOLA because they consider that to be suicide. Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.
******bag.

Whistles Flag on the play, uncalled for personal insult, bike has to be left out in the rain for two weeks.

No, Joey, riding ones bike in an urban environment in the USA is NOT like or going into war. If you want to know what it is really like to go to war I suggest that you enlist into the branch of military of your choice and request that you be sent to the Middle East. Than you can learn first hand what going into war is really like. Failing that, I suggest that you spend the day at your local VA facility talking with those Vets who have gone to war.

Also Joey as has been said in the past you and the people who ride like you are part of the problem NOT the solution. And the sooner that you and those like you, learn that the laws apply equally to all of us the better. If you don't like the way a particular law is written than write or call or both your local lawmakers and make suggestions to them on how to improve the law. Join a local or state or national advocacy group such as the League of American Bicyclists, work with them to change said laws.

Otherwise do not be surprised when the day comes that your state and local lawmakers decide to regulate bicycles and cyclists.

Also if things are as "dangerous" as you claim that they are in NOLA than you really need to consider moving to a safer area. Failing that as I've said above work WITH the system to improve the situation. But don't go around flagrantly breaking the laws and than cry foul when some motorist sees you and gets upset. You, and those who ride like you are part of the problem NOT the solution. If you want things to improve you need to obey the laws, yes, even the ones that you don't think apply or should apply to you. THAT is how you earn the respect of your local law enforcement community and from the motorists that you encounter on the road.

The incident I posted about the other day on my way home from the VA is the exception to my usual riding experiences. As more often than not when I am riding I do not get horns blown at me, I do not get cut off, I may have to "wait forever and a day" for an opening in traffic but twice now in the past two weeks I have had a female driver actually "make a hole" for me. It might have been the same young lady, I am not sure.

And yes, Joey, I ride on two major roads/highway on a regular basis. With as I said little to no negative interactions. As I am sure you could have IF you obeyed the traffic laws. You need to stop your b itching and moaning about how "unsafe the streets" are and obey the laws and guess what you just might find that when you obey the laws that the streets are actually a lot safer than you thought they were.

Why did you mention the gender of the driver that made a hole for you? Learn the proper use of then and than. Joey is correct.

My main goal when riding my bike is to ride my bike, not be an ambassador or advocate or whatever. There's nothing wrong with just riding a bike without any "nobler" motives than that.

Amen to that. I don't consider myself an ambassador for kayaking every time I take to the water.

"...26 percent of traffic fatalities in New Orleans are bicyclists or pedestrians..." Source (http://thehullabaloo.com/2010/03/05/new-orleans-ranked-8th-in-bicycle-commuters/)

Do 26% of our brave young men and women in the Middle East come home in body bags? No. Not even close. To me, that is war. No disrespect to any branch of the military, many of whom would NEVER bike the streets of NOLA because they consider that to be suicide. Yes, I have quite a few friends in the military, and on NOPD/State Police and they all express worries about ME cycling in this town.

This does not mean that 26% of pedestrians and cyclists die, which is sort of the implication you're making when you make the comparison with the fatality rate of troops in Iraq.

Whistles Flag on the play, uncalled for personal insult, bike has to be left out in the rain for two weeks.
Incorrect. For him to compare riding a bike to fighting for your country and then totally misrepresenting his own statistics to back up his idiotic claim warrants a personal insult. I didn't have a whole lot of respect for him before and now I have none.

Incorrect. For him to compare riding a bike to fighting for your country and then totally misrepresenting his own statistics to back up his idiotic claim warrants a personal insult. I didn't have a whole lot of respect for him before and now I have none.

I do believe THAT would be your opinion of what he wrote, which is his opinion, it's hardly a personal attack. Look it up, you might reeeally mad at what he wrote but it's what he wrote that upset you, not what he said to or about you. You may think he's a ****** bag because of his opinion but that hardly gives you the right to come and call him names. Ask a mod.....

I have come across a select few folks here who I wouldn't give the time of day if I ever met them because of various reasons but ... that is my opinion and if I can't post/read with them without getting so pissed off I can't keep it from being personal I just use the ignore list.

Time for this one to close.