Folding Bikes - I love my dahon, but it's been nothing but problems

i have a 2007 Dahon Speed P8 20" wheel folder. it's a great little bike and it was the bike that got me back into cycling after a long hiatus, but it's been one problem after another with the bike.

first, here's a pic of the bike with the mighty chicago skyline as backdrop:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/585/bikeskyline2.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bikeskyline2.jpg)


the first problem was quite minor, but the emergency pump in the seat post broke when it fell out of its housing going over a bump and it got caught in a road crack that bent the shaft, rendering the pump useless. not a huge deal, but annoying none-the-less.

then last spring, while giving my bike a tune-up, i noticed frame cracks starting to form around the seat tube. the speed P8 is a cro-mo model and i was very surprised to see frame cracks developing in a steel frame bike that was only 2 years old and had never been in a wreck or mistreated. i took the bike back to the dealer where i purchased the bike and much to their and dahon's credit, they honored the lifetime frame warranty and switched out the cracked frame with a brand new identical frame free of any charge.



pic of the frame cracks:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1904/framecrack1.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/framecrack1.jpg/)



after the frame crack issue was resolved, i ended up riding my dahon a lot less frequently. it became my reserve commuter bike, only used on days when inclement weather threatened so i could duck into the nearest CTA station and fold it up and ride the train if needed (i really don't enjoy riding in the rain like some hardcore commuters do).

then this spring, while once again giving the bike a tune-up, i noticed a dangerous looking crack that went all the way through the rim of the rear kinetix pro comp wheel. i took it back into the same shop and the they said the crack definitely made the wheel unsafe to ride, but that the warranty on that part had now expired. a replacement wheel is gonna cost me ~100 bucks.



pic of the rim crack:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8341/crackr.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/i/crackr.jpg/)



so now the bike sits hobbled, waiting for me to decide when to pull the trigger on getting a new wheel. i've since purchased a 3rd bike in the meantime, so i still have two other bikes i can ride, but i do miss the flexibility of having the folder for bad weather days (CTA doesn't allow normal bikes on trains during rush hour). however, with the problems i've already had i fear what lies next down the road if i do get the new wheel fix and start riding it again. the bike is only 3 years old and has already had some fairly serious issues.

sometimes there are lemons.
my aluminum dahon vitesse from 2007 or 8 has been going on quite well.

Weird man. Nonetheless, sorry to read about the negative experience. The frame thing is quite surprising, IMO. The wheel thing -- I can't see it in the photo -- less surprising. How many miles on that rear wheel?

My Curve D3's been fine-- and I'm at the outer limits of height and weight for it.

The Espresso that I picked up used has done over a year of hard urban commuting. Only problem there was when the original already past their prime Kendas dumped me over in black ice.

Otherwise, plus one to what invisiblehand wrote.

How do you like those Shimano 530's? (the pedals)

I'm starting to feel the same way about the two Dahons I've been riding. My Curve D3 has had a frame alignment problem right out of the box, the two rear dropouts are not parallel to each other; and now I've discovered a front fork alignment problem with my Vitesse, I just removed front wheel for the first time and discovered overtight cones, underlubed bearings and a bent axle, and the wheel would not remount straight once I rebuilt it.

I'm not sure about the rim crack because I cannot see it in that photo. Could you put it in Paint, circle it, and repost it? To be honest all I can see is the rim wear grove but I assume that you know that is supposed to be there. My Mu P8 is coming up on a year old and while I have not had it out much this year (long story) it is doing quite well so far. I did change out the brake pads over the weekend when I found that they were worn and had lots of aluminum flakes embedded in them, especially on the rear. That can scuff your rims up and if you have the same then maybe that is all you have, as I say I can't see the crack. On the one hand Thor can sell you a wheel for $87, but with tax and shipping its gonna be ~$100. It does come with a new cassette apparently.

Ken

Looks like the rim cracked in the wear indicator groove. The worn patch on the rim is presumably where the brake rubs the resultant bulging section. I reckon that's a manufacturing fault and should be honoured by guarantee.

The frame crack - that is not uncommon and I have long maintained that is a design fault - long lever (seatpost), fulcrum (seat stay), short lever (shim). recipe for enormous stress on the weakest point, the --- * drum roll * --- stress relief hole!

You can see nicely in the pic how the seat stay lines up perfectly with the crack site. Nicely done, Dahon.

that sucks about the seat crack. i imagine you followed the guidelines with the seat post minimum insertion requirements?

There is another possibility. Get a new rim and have someone build you a new wheel, or do it yourself. It could probably be done for well under $100. You can also try to beg a new one off Dahon but the warranty limits their responsibility to pay for items that break no matter what the cause. So if they aren't in a generous mood you won't get any results that way. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Ken

what just happened
I write a 5 page letter opinion and click reply to thread and I get a blank ... what the heck ?

thor

You would thing that forces from the lever, seat tube, are reacted by the seat stays at the top and top tube at the bottom. Thats where the stiff spots are. This assumes that the seat post has enough insertion to engage the top tube.

I wonder if when the holes are drilled or punched if there are not some fine cracks from the process that later become larger as their stressed.

How many miles on that rear wheel?
i'd estimate somewhere in the ballpark of 5,000 - 6,000 miles.






How do you like those Shimano 530's? (the pedals)
love 'em. with my dahon out of commission, i've switched them over to my new motobecane road bike (which i use as a commuter). i LOVE having the option to be clipped in or not. i LOVE not needing to worry about what footwear i have on if i just want to grab a bike and go run a quick errand. to me there's no reason in the world not to have a dual sided pedal because i'm not a gram-counting racer and all of my bikes are used in a variety of recreation & utility roles.





Looks like the rim cracked in the wear indicator groove. The worn patch on the rim is presumably where the brake rubs the resultant bulging section. I reckon that's a manufacturing fault and should be honoured by guarantee.

that's precisely where the crack is, and the worn patch on the rim is from the section that bulged out. the pic may not show it clearly, but the crack is actually all the way through the rim. when i held the rim up to a window, i could see tiny rays of daylight coming through. not safe at all. it might be a manufacturing defect, but with the bike being 3 years old, the dealer said that it would be impossible to know if it's from defect or rider abuse/misuse, accident, or other unknown force, so no warranty.





i imagine you followed the guidelines with the seat post minimum insertion requirements?
Always. i'm only 5'-9" so i never came anywhere close to minimum insertion line on the seat post.





You can also try to beg a new one off Dahon but the warranty limits their responsibility to pay for items that break no matter what the cause. So if they aren't in a generous mood you won't get any results that way. Doesn't hurt to ask.

i already asked (see above) and they weren't in a generous mood :(

Weasels ate it. Or it was diverted to the hub gear vs disraylia thread.

probably better as I had some views about this which might not have been along some of the lines above....
,
thor

So I reassessed my Vitesse wheel last night. The fork seems OK but the axle is bent enough to affect performance - the bearings bind and if the wheel isn't loaded into the fork with the axle at just the right angle, the wheel is completely out of alignment in the fork.

So I went to my local Dahon dealer and tried to buy a new axle - this is a bike that's still under warranty, but I figured it would be faster and easier just to replace the axle myself. The dealer called the company rep and it turns out that Dahon doesn't stock small parts and the only way I can get a new axle is by replacing the whole freakin' wheel. Plus they don't have the wheels in black. The local dealer said that in their experience Dahon just canabalizes other new bikes for these parts instead of maintaining inventory of parts. How lame is that?

I ended up with a new aftermarket 150mm axle that I'm going to have to cut down to 110mm to fit.

I'll also rant a bit here about the rim-eating brake pads that came stock on this bike. Tektro's with the words 'for alloy' molded into their backside. I've had experience with these 'for alloy' or 'for aluminum' brake pads before; they have 1-2mm chunks of aluminum cast into the brake pads that reduce the life of rims substantially. Once I got wise I replaced them but some damage had already been done.

As much as I like my Vitesse, I think I'm done buying from Dahon until they can get their act together a bit more.

after seeing that crack on the seat tube, I checked my vitesse and I've got the cracks too.
not as bad as in the OP picture, but I can definitely see and feel it.
I'll have to take it into an LBS and see what they can do with the warranty.

I thought the stress relief cut was on the back instead of the front. Maybe this is why the frame is more susceptible to damage?

the newer Dahon frames have a gusset welded on in front of the seatpost that is supposed to reduce flex in this area and prevent these cracks from forming.

I lost a reissue Raleigh chopper frame when a crack formed in this location. Raleigh's warranty explicitly said that alloy frames were not covered.

Randya: "The dealer called the company rep and it turns out that Dahon doesn't stock small parts and the only way I can get a new axle is by replacing the whole freakin' wheel."

They're available in the UK from here (https://sslrelay.com/s75353868.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=154c09532f14e88/shopdata/0005_DAHON+SPARES+AND+ACCESSORIES/0040_Dahon+Hubs+=26amp=3B+Hub+Gear+Units/product_details.shopscript?article=0060_Dahon%2BAluminium%2BFront%2BHub%2BNutted%2B20H%2BSilver%2B%3 D28DAHFRONHUBNUT7420H%3D29), £14.95 - 17.5% discount on export prices, if CH White do exports. But I think you have one now.

thanks, but that's still a whole hub, which is more than I need, and it's not in black, which is the color I need.

:)

Yeah, well... Occasionally you get what you pay for. Or a little less. ;) I had a low-end Dahon for awhile, and had a few more mechanical issues than with similarly-priced standard bikes. However, I haven't seen any solid statistics on Dahon's (or anyone else's) repair rates.

Hopefully the replacement frame will be the new design. As to the wheel, while I concur it's possible that it is a manufacturing flaw, and that 20" wheels are generally stronger than larger ones, after that many miles it's a little harder to identify the true cause.

I'd say if you aren't feeling it, sell it. Just make sure you either fix the wheel first or fully inform the buyer that the rear wheel must be replaced. If you really miss having a folding bike, consider picking up a higher-end folder.

Welding causes the steel tubes to temper around the joint areas. that part of the bike already receives a lot of stress and cracks.
if the bikes were brazed i would think the possibility of premature cracking in your situation would be significantly reduced.

sometimes there are lemons.
my aluminum dahon vitesse from 2007 or 8 has been going on quite well.

"Lemons" are supposed to be screened out by something called "Quality Control" at the factory-certainly not at the dealer or at the final purchase at the customer's end. I have finally adjusted to the new reality of "gambling" to get a working product of any type-not just bikes. I purchase something and bring it home. I make sure to use it as much as I can for at least a week or under any time frame specified by the warranty or purchase agreement. If it works that is wonderful as there are no headaches for me and the product should not give me any major trouble for it's intended lifespan. If the product is defective, I make sure I bought it originally at a retailer that has a good return policy and return it very quickly. Plus I usually use a credit card with additional protections for this built right in.


I'm starting to feel the same way about the two Dahons I've been riding. My Curve D3 has had a frame alignment problem right out of the box, the two rear dropouts are not parallel to each other; and now I've discovered a front fork alignment problem with my Vitesse, I just removed front wheel for the first time and discovered overtight cones, underlubed bearings and a bent axle, and the wheel would not remount straight once I rebuilt it.


So I reassessed my Vitesse wheel last night. The fork seems OK but the axle is bent enough to affect performance - the bearings bind and if the wheel isn't loaded into the fork with the axle at just the right angle, the wheel is completely out of alignment in the fork.

So I went to my local Dahon dealer and tried to buy a new axle - this is a bike that's still under warranty, but I figured it would be faster and easier just to replace the axle myself. The dealer called the company rep and it turns out that Dahon doesn't stock small parts and the only way I can get a new axle is by replacing the whole freakin' wheel. Plus they don't have the wheels in black. The local dealer said that in their experience Dahon just canabalizes other new bikes for these parts instead of maintaining inventory of parts. How lame is that?

I ended up with a new aftermarket 150mm axle that I'm going to have to cut down to 110mm to fit.

I'll also rant a bit here about the rim-eating brake pads that came stock on this bike. Tektro's with the words 'for alloy' molded into their backside. I've had experience with these 'for alloy' or 'for aluminum' brake pads before; they have 1-2mm chunks of aluminum cast into the brake pads that reduce the life of rims substantially. Once I got wise I replaced them but some damage had already been done.

As much as I like my Vitesse, I think I'm done buying from Dahon until they can get their act together a bit more.

Thank for reinforcing something I was merely suspicious of for quite awhile now can actually place my finger on. I still think that Dahon makes wonderful bikes. I still have the 2 I bought new for quite a while now. But they are certainly not perfect. I treat them like I would do a car that is over about 3 years old. With not 100% complete trust in them (much like a cheating spouse).

Steely Dan /AEO Do your bikes have an alloy shim in the seat tube?

Steely Dan /AEO Do your bikes have an alloy shim in the seat tube?

yes.

I had a look at my 2009 Vit. today, alloy shim, no sign of cracks, but the slot and cut-out are (appear to be) the same. My 2006 D7 had a plastic shim, hence the question.

Steely Dan /AEO Do your bikes have an alloy shim in the seat tube?

yes. both my old frame that cracked and the new replacement frame had/have an alloy seat tube shim. in fact, in the detail picture of the frame crack in the first post of this thread, you can see the alloy shim through the seat tube slot.

OK, I goddit now, on mine the slot is at the rear of the bike, not the front, and there's a fillet welded in from the top tube to the front of the seatpost. (My 2006 bike had a plastic shim. )

OK, I goddit now, on mine the slot is at the rear of the bike, not the front, and there's a fillet welded in from the top tube to the front of the seatpost. (My 2006 bike had a plastic shim. )

mine is at the rear, but the frame is made from aluminum.

Yup, and you have a crack. Any news yet?

waiting for warranty.

the whole reason I bought aluminum vitesse over steel mariner was because I had to ride it in winter.
lots of brime here.

mine is at the rear, but the frame is made from aluminum.

does yours have the extra gusset on the front side?

... last spring, while giving my bike a tune-up, i noticed frame cracks starting to form around the seat tube...

You may want to report it here https://www.cpsc.gov/cgibin/incident.aspx If there will be a sufficient number of similar complains, it may end up with a safety recall.

Kam

does yours have the extra gusset on the front side?

yes it does.

what just happened
I write a 5 page letter opinion and click reply to thread and I get a blank ... what the heck ?

thor

Well written, properly spelled and rational opinions are not allowed on these forums. You should know better.

You may want to report it here https://www.cpsc.go/cgibin/incidnt.asx If there will be a sufficient number of similar complains, it may end up with a safety recall.

Kam

dont forget to make one right away with those other complaints for alloy rims which are predominantly ridden in the grit and nasty weather and have 5000 to 6000 miles on it..........or for hubs which are not serviced and eventually run dry ..... or brake pads which surely never need to be cleaned or replaced .. or bend axles ( especially the real short ones from Dahon which I havent seen one bend in all my life yet) , why not add tires to it and cables and and and

I got news...
sometimes one need to replace things and although most parts on Dahons are pretty nice, they also dont wear forever.

Thor

:popcorn

didn't bike friday tikit have a similar problem on their seat tube?

Here's a Post from a few months back. Bad Luck Happens on occassion with the High End Folders such as the Bottom Bracket on this Bike Friday Brand as well:

Interesting--Bike Friday NWT Frame(BB) Breaks On South American Tour(not mine)

Thought this may be of interest to some here on this Folding Forum. Seems like BF is always placed as a "Cut Above" many of the current manufactured Folding Bike Brands but even the perceived "Best" can fail as this poster ( Mel) can attest to on his South American Tour. I follow his interesting Blog on Crazyguysonabike.com and what a place for it to break ! Anyone know if these BF frames are US made in their Oregon factory or imported from Asia?

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=140777&v=p (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=140777&v=p)

dont forget to make one right away with those other complaints for alloy rims which are predominantly ridden in the grit and nasty weather and have 5000 to 6000 miles on it..

Hi Thor, if you will read my posting you will see that I refereed to the frame crack, not the rim, pads, or axle.

Cheers,

Kam

didn't bike friday tikit have a similar problem on their seat tube?

Yes, and it ended up with a recall and retrofit.

Kam

dont forget to make one right away with those other complaints for alloy rims which are predominantly ridden in the grit and nasty weather and have 5000 to 6000 miles on it..........or for hubs which are not serviced and eventually run dry ..... or brake pads which surely never need to be cleaned or replaced .. or bend axles ( especially the real short ones from Dahon which I havent seen one bend in all my life yet) , why not add tires to it and cables and and and

I got news...
sometimes one need to replace things and although most parts on Dahons are pretty nice, they also dont wear forever.

Thor

Yep, we're imagining all those things...and none of them are the manufacturer's fault...and you don't have a vested interest in convincing potential customers that these aren't real problems with Dahon bikes...none of which should be present on a new bike or show up within three months of putting a new bike into service. It's hard for me to believe you are actually a dealer if you've never seen any of these problems.

:rolleyes:

Here's a Post from a few months back. Bad Luck Happens on occassion with the High End Folders such as the Bottom Bracket on this Bike Friday Brand as well:

Interesting--Bike Friday NWT Frame(BB) Breaks On South American Tour(not mine)

Thought this may be of interest to some here on this Folding Forum. Seems like BF is always placed as a "Cut Above" many of the current manufactured Folding Bike Brands but even the perceived "Best" can fail as this poster ( Mel) can attest to on his South American Tour. I follow his interesting Blog on Crazyguysonabike.com and what a place for it to break ! Anyone know if these BF frames are US made in their Oregon factory or imported from Asia?

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=140777&v=p (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=140777&v=p)


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4681907907_60e1cbcabe_b.jpg

Bike Fridays...like any bike can and will have problems occasionally...especially if used hard. The difference is the guy in the link above could call Bike Friday and speak to someone who cared about his tour and sent him a new frame as expeditiously as possible. Do you think that rider would have had the same result if he was touring on another brand of folding bike?...I don't think so. The pic above is right after he gets the new frame from BF....

That's one of the main reasons I bought a Tikit...I was able to call and talk to the folks making my bike...I could email Rob English the designer/manufacturing guru at BF. I could drop in and visit the factory on my way past Eugene OR.

Nobody including BF themselves suggests they or their bikes are perfect, but they try hard and they do care a lot about their customers.

To the OP - not getting down on Dahon, but every bike manufacturer makes some lemons. If you've got one I'd recommend you fix it up and sell it as fast as possible. Some bikes are just a PITA no matter what you do. You could probably go and buy the exact same model of Dahon from a different production run and have zero issues.

Yep, we're imagining all those things...and none of them are the manufacturer's fault...and you don't have a vested interest in convincing potential customers that these aren't real problems with Dahon bikes...none of which should be present on a new bike or show up within three months of putting a new bike into service. It's hard for me to believe you are actually a dealer if you've never seen any of these problems.

:rolleyes:


The frame with the problem has been replaced.
Than rims became an issue ...and than and than all the haters come out of the bushes and beating a dead horse.

About rims ....
The bike is used on those dirty grimey days predominantly ... The rims have 5000 to 6000 miles on it .... depending on the care ( like cleaning the rims and pads every couple days after the road grime starts to cacke all over it ) The rims did very well. And need to be replaced. Why the brake pads have rubbed the rim in one area more than other.... I.E. when a rim is out of true and hits the brake pads with every turn .... Why is somebody continue riding with that ? Is that a sign how the bike was cleaned and serviced ? I would say it is .... ( if the same blotch of wear is on the opposite side, it would indicate that the rim was bend and spread, that would be a sign that it was violently run up a curb, maybe the same day the frame broke ?)

Now all of this has NOTHING to do with a Dahon or any other bike manufacturer.
Its simply service ( or lack theroff) which all bikes need. Dahon doesnt make rims. They buy them from the same amnufacturers like all other bike OEMs. They buy a little better ones than most, but they also need service once in a while . And they dont last forever.


There are a couple of other points which creaped up like the bend axle. Very few 100 mm axles bend. The Dahon Axles are 74 mm or 25 % shorter and MUCH stronger than a longer axle. Why such an axle is bend ? I have no idea. I have never heard of anybody doing this, no matter how hard they abused the bike. Thats a good enough reason that nobody has a spare axle lying around. The complete hub cost maybe 5 dlr (OEM cost) and to stock spare parts for a 5 dlr unit is simply not rational. By that matter Dahon offers a complete front wheel for 30 bucks. That is cheaper to buy a complete wheel than to pay for labour to respoke a used one.



Why a couple of you guys and gals seem to take every opportunity to moan and groan about Dahon is a miracle to me. Sure there are some disgruntled employees, some folks who work at other places and have obviously not enough to do selling their own bikes.
And yes I am biased as I sell Dahons. I am one of the very few Industry guys who are standing up for their product here ( Yan is the obvious exception as well ) I am one who signs with his real name, if that matters. I am also one who goes through hell to help his customers ( and others who dont get the attention they derserve from their dealers )

Sure there are problems here and there, and its no wonder that you hear more about Dahons problems than all the others.
Maybe a little exagerated but not by much. Dahon makes as many bikes per day than Bike Friday makes in a year. Bike Fridays are used mostly by more experienced riders who dont do all the things to their bikes than a Newbie to their 300 dlr bike. ( Disclaimer ...I like Bike Fridays and the guys who built them are good folks same as most other folding bike people. I used them simply as an example how different the numbers are...)

I am easy to find ( as I stick my head way out ) and I have VERY LITTLE problems with Dahon. All Problems I was able to fix to 99% satisfaction to the customer ( there is always that one of course). I find Dahon being responsive and aproachable and very lienient in the warranty department. ( It sometimes surprised me )

Thor

I got news...
sometimes one need to replace things and although most parts on Dahons are pretty nice, they also dont wear forever.

Thor
that's not news. anyone who's even marginally familiar with bicycle ownership and upkeep maintenance is already aware of that. i feel that the problems i encountered with my dahon go a little deeper than that. if used properly, steel frames shouldn't crack after 1.5 years of use. if used properly, alloy rims shouldn't crack around the 5,000 mile mark. a novel idea like sticking an emergency pump in a seat post should have been better engineered so that said pump couldn't accidentally fall out and break itself while going over a bump in the road. maybe my bike was just a proper lemon in every sense and 99% of the other dahon folders out on the roads never experience these kinds of design/manufacturing deficiencies, however, my experiences are still real and they don't leave me with the greatest confidence to go back to dahon should i choose to purchase another folding bicycle in the future. which is kind of a shame because, in my opinion, dahon does design the best looking 20" and 16" wheel folders currently on the market. looks are certainly not everything, but it's the one area of folding bicycle design that i feel dahon does better than anyone else in the folder game (i know many others will disgaree, but that's just my honest, extremely subjective opinion).

in any event, the second part of my thread title does express some of the frustration i've had owning my dahon, but it's important to also remember the first part. i do love the bike even if it is/was flawed. and the fact that dahon and the LBS dealer totally took care of fixing and replacing the pump and frame crack issues free of charge does lead me to have high confidence in dahon's customer service. that's another aspect i would never fault the company for. as for the cracked rim, well it's hard to really know what went wrong there and it is possible that i might have hit a big pot hole or some other jarring road obstacle at a high enough speed that the rim simply met it's breaking point. i don't recall any such specific incident, but it's entirely possible, and that's life in (and on the streets of) the big city. interestingly enough, if and when i do decide to get a new kinetix rear wheeel for the bike, i will almost certainly be purchasing it from you (thorusa), so i can totally understand why it'd be in your interest to downplay any issues that might exist with dahon engineering/manufacturing.




To the OP - not getting down on Dahon, but every bike manufacturer makes some lemons. If you've got one I'd recommend you fix it up and sell it as fast as possible. Some bikes are just a PITA no matter what you do. You could probably go and buy the exact same model of Dahon from a different production run and have zero issues.
well, i have a brand new replacement frame as of last spring, and the bike will see a lot less use as a 3rd option rain day back-up than as my primary wheels. it's possible that when i get around to replacing the rear wheel that something else will go wrong, but it's probably gonna be hard for me to sell it because i'm one of those weirdos that develops emotional attachments to my bikes, even when they're flawed (bikes are like pets to me). and having a folder is really just a back-up plan for me, so the impetus to shell out big bucks for a bike friday or other more expensive brand is probably not gonna be there.

Vik-I am well aware of the Fact that this could have happened with any Bike Manufacturer. I used the BF example as it was just posted recently here and was a good comparison for the point I was trying to make. On your one statement where you wrote in effect more or less, "Do you think that rider would have had the same result if he was touring on another brand of folding bike?...I don't think so" I think you are making an unsubstantiated assumption. Sounds like Thor who posts here and is a Dahon Dealer would have done the same. In other cases I have read where Cannondale and Trek have also done the same for owners who suffered frame breaksdowns, so this is not limited to only Bike Friday going the extra mile for a customer. I do agree that BF seems to be a great company with good after purchase service, only they are not alone. A personal example and very recent for me is with Kryptonite Lock Co-after finding an old Krypto U Lock stored away for over 15 years I could not find the Keys. I called their Customer Service recently and they told me to send in the Lock to get new Keys made. I did this but they no longer stock or make Keys for my old model so yesterday in the mail arrives a Brand New Kryptonite Lock, an Upgraded model at that, Unsolicited by me, all Free of Charge. How's that for Customer Service after the Original purchase on a U-Lock originally purchased over 18 years ago? Will I recommend This company? You bet, based on my personal real time experience.

The frame with the problem has been replaced.
Than rims became an issue ...and than and than all the haters come out of the bushes and beating a dead horse.

About rims ....
The bike is used on those dirty grimey days predominantly ... The rims have 5000 to 6000 miles on it .... depending on the care ( like cleaning the rims and pads every couple days after the road grime starts to cacke all over it ) The rims did very well. And need to be replaced. Why the brake pads have rubbed the rim in one area more than other.... I.E. when a rim is out of true and hits the brake pads with every turn .... Why is somebody continue riding with that ? Is that a sign how the bike was cleaned and serviced ? I would say it is .... ( if the same blotch of wear is on the opposite side, it would indicate that the rim was bend and spread, that would be a sign that it was violently run up a curb, maybe the same day the frame broke ?)

Now all of this has NOTHING to do with a Dahon or any other bike manufacturer.
Its simply service ( or lack theroff) which all bikes need. Dahon doesnt make rims. They buy them from the same amnufacturers like all other bike OEMs. They buy a little better ones than most, but they also need service once in a while . And they dont last forever.


There are a couple of other points which creaped up like the bend axle. Very few 100 mm axles bend. The Dahon Axles are 74 mm or 25 % shorter and MUCH stronger than a longer axle. Why such an axle is bend ? I have no idea. I have never heard of anybody doing this, no matter how hard they abused the bike. Thats a good enough reason that nobody has a spare axle lying around. The complete hub cost maybe 5 dlr (OEM cost) and to stock spare parts for a 5 dlr unit is simply not rational. By that matter Dahon offers a complete front wheel for 30 bucks. That is cheaper to buy a complete wheel than to pay for labour to respoke a used one.



Why a couple of you guys and gals seem to take every opportunity to moan and groan about Dahon is a miracle to me. Sure there are some disgruntled employees, some folks who work at other places and have obviously not enough to do selling their own bikes.
And yes I am biased as I sell Dahons. I am one of the very few Industry guys who are standing up for their product here ( Yan is the obvious exception as well ) I am one who signs with his real name, if that matters. I am also one who goes through hell to help his customers ( and others who dont get the attention they derserve from their dealers )

Sure there are problems here and there, and its no wonder that you hear more about Dahons problems than all the others.
Maybe a little exagerated but not by much. Dahon makes as many bikes per day than Bike Friday makes in a year. Bike Fridays are used mostly by more experienced riders who dont do all the things to their bikes than a Newbie to their 300 dlr bike. ( Disclaimer ...I like Bike Fridays and the guys who built them are good folks same as most other folding bike people. I used them simply as an example how different the numbers are...)

I am easy to find ( as I stick my head way out ) and I have VERY LITTLE problems with Dahon. All Problems I was able to fix to 99% satisfaction to the customer ( there is always that one of course). I find Dahon being responsive and aproachable and very lienient in the warranty department. ( It sometimes surprised me )

Thor

I've been working on bikes for a very, very long time, and I know the difference between (1) properly and improperly lubed and adjusted bearings and cones, (2) dirty brake pads and brake pads deliberately manufactured with inclusions supposedly designed to enhance braking, and (3) a straight axle and a bent axle.

In fact if you had read my original post on this subject, instead of letting your emotions get the better of you, my complaint about the axle was not that it was bent, but rather, that I was unable to get a factory replacement for the damaged part. I should not have to buy a complete hub and relace the wheel when a simple axle replacement is all that is required.

In conclusion, I'm not moaning simply because it is a Dahon, I'm moaning because Dahon obviously has some serious unresolved problems in the quality control and replacement parts department. I had very high hopes for my Vittesse, as at first it seemed like the modern updated equivalent to the Raleigh 20. Unfortunately, my 35 year old Raleigh 20 is sturdier and more reliable than my three month old Dahon.

Hehe Steely Dan
I understand ....:-) and your post was more dissapoitment than the usual bashing anyhow..... so plesae dont take it personal when I am trying to stand up for the product I love ( and sell ).

Randya ....

grease in the hubs .... here comes a surprise. There is no manufacturer who puts those babies together, they are bought from a Hub manufacturer. Dahon doesnt open them and takes a look whats inside. In Dahons case most hubs are from Formula who also supplies Giants Trek Specialized and and and .... If the cones are too tight or you think they are dry .. than that would be the case on all those bikes. Again the exception might be there... that the automatic grease injector at the hub plant run out of grease and the workers let the machine run ... what do I know ? Furthermore one has to understand that todays grease is way better than the old stuff which needed to be THICK in order to survive several 1000 miles .. todays stuff is barely there and works better.
The manufacturers are thinking through loopholes tomake things better, than all of the sudden somebody uses a high pressure washer to clean his bike and all kinds of bad things happen ... ( like flynging the grease right out of the hubs )

Oh by the way I have an axle for you .. NO problem
Its 30 dlr !


Thor

( somebody needs a front wheel without axle ? You get fresh spokes a new rim ... only 5 dlr ! )

Hehe Steely Dan
I understand ....:-) and your post was more dissapoitment than the usual bashing anyhow.....

not so much disappointment as just venting some frustration after recently discovering the cracked rim. it was one of those "awwwww, what the hell!?! what's gonna go wrong next?" type of moments. i don't regret buying my dahon (i still love it), it would just be A LOT easier for me to recommend the brand if i hadn't had all the issues i've had with it in the short time i've owned it. though it is important to once again reiterate that the BIG issue (the frame cracks) was handled completely to my satisfaction by dahon and my LBS dealer. the issue with the cracked rim just kinda set me off i guess, even though it's not the biggest deal in the world and it probably wouldn't have prompted me to post this thread had i not just gone through the frame crack issue last spring.







( somebody needs a front wheel without axle ? You get fresh spokes a new rim ... only 5 dlr ! )
quick question, would the rim from that front vitesse wheel work as a suitable replacement for the cracked rim on my kinetix comp rear wheel for my speed P8 or would the spoke hole count/placement not be compatible?

Vik-I am well aware of the Fact that this could have happened with any Bike Manufacturer. I used the BF example as it was just posted recently here and was a good comparison for the point I was trying to make. On your one statement where you wrote in effect more or less, "Do you think that rider would have had the same result if he was touring on another brand of folding bike?...I don't think so" I think you are making an unsubstantiated assumption. Sounds like Thor who posts here and is a Dahon Dealer would have done the same.

Lots of companies would sort you out if you were under warranty and brought the product into a dealer to get serviced...the guy in question was in South America and got a new frame in less than 2 weeks. That's amazing...I doubt you'd get that service from very many companies and be able to keep touring with a minimal delay.

As an example I had a defective Surly Long Haul Trucker frame and brought it to my LBS who agreed it was a warranty issue. I got a new frame - 3 months later! And that's with the ability to walk the product back to the LBS I bought it from, dealing with a major bike company [QBP] and with no far flung international shipping/customs to deal with.

Hehe Steely Dan
I understand ....:-) and your post was more dissapoitment than the usual bashing anyhow..... so plesae dont take it personal when I am trying to stand up for the product I love ( and sell ).

Randya ....

grease in the hubs .... here comes a surprise. There is no manufacturer who puts those babies together, they are bought from a Hub manufacturer. Dahon doesnt open them and takes a look whats inside. In Dahons case most hubs are from Formula who also supplies Giants Trek Specialized and and and .... If the cones are too tight or you think they are dry .. than that would be the case on all those bikes. Again the exception might be there... that the automatic grease injector at the hub plant run out of grease and the workers let the machine run ... what do I know ? Furthermore one has to understand that todays grease is way better than the old stuff which needed to be THICK in order to survive several 1000 miles .. todays stuff is barely there and works better.
The manufacturers are thinking through loopholes tomake things better, than all of the sudden somebody uses a high pressure washer to clean his bike and all kinds of bad things happen ... ( like flynging the grease right out of the hubs )

Oh by the way I have an axle for you .. NO problem
Its 30 dlr !


Thor

( somebody needs a front wheel without axle ? You get fresh spokes a new rim ... only 5 dlr ! )


I've never washed a bike with a pressure washer either.

I'd guess the real problem is that the chinese teenagers making $1 a day building wheels for Dahon haven't been adequately trained in proper wheel bearing lubrication and adjustment, and no one is checking their work.


At this point my conclusion is that you're in deep denial regarding the quality of the bikes you are selling.





:)