Utility Cycling - Mundo costs as much as Dummy

I was looking at the Mundo on its website and it's just as much as a Dummy if you buy the bags. The Dummy complete is $1600 something and $600 for the frame. With the complete you get the freeloaders. The Mundo is $575 for the frame and $1075 complete, but they don't come with bags or disc brakes. I don't understand how the Dummy gets tagged for being so expensive.

Generally a Dummy build is in the +/- $2000 range. I think a Dummy is more versatile than a Mundo.

I was looking at the Mundo on its website and it's just as much as a Dummy if you buy the bags. The Dummy complete is $1600 something and $600 for the frame. With the complete you get the freeloaders. The Mundo is $575 for the frame and $1075 complete, but they don't come with bags or disc brakes. I don't understand how the Dummy gets tagged for being so expensive.

Do you need to buy the side (wide) loaders for the Big Dummy? They come standard on the Mundo.



Generally a Dummy build is in the +/- $2000 range. I think a Dummy is more versatile than a Mundo.

Can you explain why you think the Big Dummy is more versatile?

Whether the Big Dummy is more versatile depends on your definition of versatility. The Mundo weighs significantly more in its "stock" state than a BD (39 lbs vs 55 lbs). Also, the stock build of the Mundo uses much lower quality parts than a spec BD, and it doesn't even include disc brakes (which would pretty much be a necessity if you were to try to carry the cargo that the Mundo is capable of). Also, the Big Dummy is certainly better suited to off-road or singletrack use.

...and it doesn't even include disc brakes (which would pretty much be a necessity if you were to try to carry the cargo that the Mundo is capable of).

Tandems on tour have a GVW of around 500-600 lbs. For the longest time these would typically have cantilever brakes... and these would have no problem stopping at the bottom of a mountain descent. To compare I have the cheapest stamped metal side-pull brakes on my long-tail cargo bike and they have no problems stopping the bike with 175 lbs of rider and 300 lbs of cargo on it.

Disk brakes on a fully loaded cargo bike are nice to have. But a necessity... uh, no.

:)ensen.

@purplepeople: First of all, your 500-600lb estimate for the GVW of a loaded touring tandem is pretty absurdly high, though for the sake of argument, lets imagine that your quote is correct and that most tandem-touring couples are 200 pounders who overpack... Even so, you'll remember that tandems have a little thing called a "drag brake" (such as an Arai, etc), something that neither the Mundo or the Big Dummy have the capacity to mount. The drag brake is what enables your 500-600 lb tandem to arrive safely at the bottom of the hill. Any tandem or cargo bike with *rim brakes only* that will be riding on steep hills is going to be in danger of overheating the brakes/rims and blowing out a tube with possibly disastrous consequences. Or maybe it won't even stop at all! What's more, if you're riding a *rim-brake-only* bike with a several-hundred-pound load in the rain at any speed faster than 10mph, you'll probably have trouble stopping in a reasonable distance. Combine the factors of rain, hills, and a heavy load, and you're really upping the ante. So yes...if you'll only be using your bicycle for towing cargo in flat areas, at low speeds, on dry days, and you're not concerned about how long it will take to stop, or the safety of yourself, your cargo, and your passengers, then you could say that disc brakes are not a necessity on a heavily-loaded cargo bicycle.

@purplepeople: First of all, your 500-600lb estimate for the GVW of a loaded touring tandem is pretty absurdly high, though for the sake of argument, lets imagine that your quote is correct and that most tandem-touring couples are 200 pounders who overpack... Even so, you'll remember that tandems have a little thing called a "drag brake" (such as an Arai, etc), something that neither the Mundo or the Big Dummy have the capacity to mount. The drag brake is what enables your 500-600 lb tandem to arrive safely at the bottom of the hill. Any tandem or cargo bike with *rim brakes only* that will be riding on steep hills is going to be in danger of overheating the brakes/rims and blowing out a tube with possibly disastrous consequences. Or maybe it won't even stop at all! What's more, if you're riding a *rim-brake-only* bike with a several-hundred-pound load in the rain at any speed faster than 10mph, you'll probably have trouble stopping in a reasonable distance. Combine the factors of rain, hills, and a heavy load, and you're really upping the ante. So yes...if you'll only be using your bicycle for towing cargo in flat areas, at low speeds, on dry days, and you're not concerned about how long it will take to stop, or the safety of yourself, your cargo, and your passengers, then you could say that disc brakes are not a necessity on a heavily-loaded cargo bicycle.

http://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.com/2008/09/disc-brakes-vs-rim-brakes.html

Both rim and disc brakes overheat at about the same heat load so you need to manage heat with both brake systems if you are riding in the mountains with a heavy load.

http://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.com/2008/09/pulse-braking.html

You are right tandem teams use a drag brake to keep speeds in check...using a rim brake or disc brake as a drag brake will lead to brake failure and will cause a major problem.

My Big Dummy has Avid BB7s, but I'd happily tour in the mountains with a 150lbs load on v-brakes. My upcoming CETMA build will use v-brakes even though the CETMA can carry more than the BD. I have no concerns about stopping that bike with v-brakes.

I think what can be gained from the links and info that Vik provided is that braking technique (pulse braking, etc) has just as much to do with stopping as the type of brakes that are in question. In that same respect, brake setup for both disc and rim brakes has a huge deal to do with braking performance. A poorly setup BB7 can be less effective than a caliper brake, and a well setup BB7 will perform nearly as well as a hydraulic disc brake.

Something that I found strange about the disc brakes tested by MountainBike magazine was that most of the rotors were under 180mm. If they'd wanted to produce meaningful test results for comparing each brake, they'd have used the same size rotors. That said, I'm no engineer, but I'm certain that a larger disc will build heat less quickly and lose heat more quickly. But we digress from the original topic...

Whether the Big Dummy is more versatile depends on your definition of versatility. The Mundo weighs significantly more in its "stock" state than a BD (39 lbs vs 55 lbs). Also, the stock build of the Mundo uses much lower quality parts than a spec BD, and it doesn't even include disc brakes (which would pretty much be a necessity if you were to try to carry the cargo that the Mundo is capable of). Also, the Big Dummy is certainly better suited to off-road or singletrack use.

The ride of the BD is different than the Mundo. The Mundo is better suited to cruising and carrying heavier loads than the BD. For offroad and single track, I'm sure the BD's lower weight would be an advantage. But I'm not sure how the parts specs make a bike any more versatile. You can certainly put discs on the Mundo if you felt is was necessary.

The ride of the BD is different than the Mundo.

+1 - if you ride the BD empty it's easy to forget you are on a cargo bike and it makes a great commuter/touring rig as well as being able to handle offroad adventures. I haven't got enough time on a Yuba Mundo to compare them properly, but my sense is the Mundo is a cargo bike first and foremost. The benefit of the BD's Xtracycle compatibility is that it can be reconfigured very quickly for a lot of different roles without much penalty for that versatility.

This isn't a slam on the Mundo...it seems to be a great cargo bike and if that's what you want some of the extra versatility of the BD may have no value to you.

I feel that the Big Dummy/ Xtracycle to be more versatile than the Yuba Mundo, primarily due to the freeloaders and long loader. The Yuba didn't have the freeloaders.
I like the freeloaders, I think they add a level of convenience to using the bike for errands. They are easier to load than panniers. The capacity seems to be fairly limitless.
When I was looking for a cargo bike, the Yuba didn't have anything similar to the freeloaders. It was a tough call for me, because the Yuba has a larger weight capacity.
However, the Xtracycle's versatility with the freeloaders won me over.

Since this is semi-on topic, I may as well ask here. I'm looking into cargo bikes, and these are two of the ones I'm seriously eyeballing, though I lean more towards the BD. Is $1600 the current price for both at an LBS? Is that the price for building it on my own?

You can get it complete. I got a nearly complete Surly Big Dummy off the Bay for $1,000 and with Xtracycle parts and stem handlebar and saddle changes, it came to $1500. I think $2000 would be in the ballpark for a complete BD

whatever you get is going to be some sort of compromise. the trick is to make sure its a compromise you can live with.

the BD and the mundo are both fine products. personally, i think getting caught up in the small cost difference and the "stock" component choices is going to distract you from the merits of either platform. make sure you give consideration to things like the terrain you are going to ride on, the weight and size of cargo you are going to carry, how often you will use the bike un-loaded, what sort of accessories you think you will make use of, how much are you going to use it, etc. getting a good idea of how you will use the bike most of the time should help you figure out which bike fits you better.

for example, i have a BD and i have borrowed a mundo from a friend a few times. if i were to ride either of them loaded with a bunch of weight all the time, i personally would probably lean toward the mundo because it is really built strong and can carry a lot of weight. however, i use the BD as my main bike, and in addition to carrying pretty big loads quite often, i commute to work on it with no load 5 days a week. i wouldn't do this with the mundo because of the terrain where i live (lots of hills). some people might not care, but for me the difference in the unloaded weight between the two bikes is huge, and since i use the bike a lot unloaded, i don't want that extra 20 or so lbs to carry around. if i lived somewhere with more flat terrain, this might not concern me at all.

price is a simpler argument to me. if you aren't going to use the thing very often or keep it very long, look hard for a bargain. if you're going to use it all the time and keep it a long time, maybe the bargain isn't so important. if you go with an option that costs you $200 more, well $200 is a lot of money. but if you're going to keep the thing for 5 years and use it every day, how significant is $200 stretched out over 5 years?