Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - OT: Backpacking - The Historian's First Trip

My first backpacking trip will be an overnight this August, with a friend of mine, on this trail:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/hiking/laurel.aspx

I'm borrowing a backpack, and I'll have upgraded my hiking boots by then.

Any suggestions for my trip, or my training? My current hiking ability is four some miles unloaded without any problems at all. Distance I'll be hiking should be about ten or so miles.

My suggestion is don't do it in August. Yuck!

Sorry, I used to live in Ohio and the summer is brutal, I would never backpack in those months. Springand fall, however, are great. It's the opposite in the mountains of Colorado, summer is bearable (and cool overnight) while spring and fall can get too cold overnight.

Beyond that though, I would look into ultralight backpacking. Do a google search, you will find plenty of material. I'm a dedicated lightweight backpacker, it made me actually enjoy the sport instead of be miserable. Try to get your base weight down, it's mostly the big three: tent/shelter, sleeping bag, sleeping pad. I think there's usually one more, but I'm not sure if it's food or clothing. Don't take more clothing than you need, maybe a pair for the day and something else to sleep in if you think it will be cold overnight and you'll need a change of clothes. There's always the insulation layer and rain layer.

If your pack is light enough most ultralighters recommend not wearing boots. A pound on the feet is like five on the back.

I've got a few suggestions, but I haven't spent much time in PA, so you'll want to "adjust" them a bit. First, gear:


Water purifier. You'll still want to carry a bottle of the stuff, and probably won't know exactly when the next time you'll be able to fill up will be. But, you'll shed a lot of weight from your back this way.
Wool base layer, top and bottom. I feel like a broken record always suggesting this, but it's just the right amount of insulation, even when wet, wicks sweat away from your skin, and doesn't stink, so you'll only need to carry one. You probably won't need a change of outerwear, either.
Rain gear. It probably won't snow, but you'll be miserable if you get soaked. This is the one extra worth its weight.
A wide brimmed hat, to avoid a sunburn. Ideally bring a cheap cloth one you can dunk in a river, to cool you off.


Otherwise, carry whatever you need to be comfortable, and nothing more. You can use your tripod or monopod as a hiking stick. I've been wondering about solar chargers for camping trips, to keep the camera going, but I hear a lot of them aren't really up to snuff.

Tie your food up, at least 100 yards downwind from you. If a bear catches wind of something yummy, it will spend the night trying to climb the tree, and hopefully give up.

You probably already know how to adjust a backpack, but if not, there are some quick tutorials on the web. It's worth saying that you should pull the waist belt as tight as you can, to transfer the weight from your back and shoulders.

First figure out what footwear you'll be using, and use that while you train. I have bad ankles and use full grain leather, 3/4 shank, trekking boots for everything but day trips. I avoid the modern type hiking boots with soft sneaker-like soles and ineffective arch and ankle support. Regardless of what footwear you'll be using, if it's not broken in before you leave you'll be miserable. Alternatively, if the footwear is not in good condition, you'll be miserable.
Step two is to borrow the backpack early. Start wearing it as you train, walking around Valley Forge (or where ever you choose.) You want to accomplish 2 things: 1)make sure the backpack fits and that pressure is where it should be and not rubbing, and 2) Get used to the changes in your center of gravity when walking with the pack. When you first get the pack, start walking 2-3 times a week, give yourself 2 hours total and see how far you get, or do out and back hikes. On the weekend, try to go on day hikes (or half-day hikes) 2-3 hours out, lunch and 2-3 hours back. Hopefully you'll find yourself getting stronger, and as you do, start adding weight to the pack. With scouts we used trailside rocks or water bags so that the weight could be dumped if it was too much as opposed to a plate weight or dumbbell, which has value. Maybe start with just your sleeping bag and sleeping pad in the backpack for a couple weeks, then add some more weight, and keep adding as you get stronger.
Figure out what the total weight of your gear+food+water will be on the trip, remember that August can be hot during the day and either stuffy or rather cool at night. No need to overpack, just take it into consideration. Make your goal to carry 5 lbs more than that during your training hikes.
Good luck!

No input yet, but OUTSTANDING!!!!!!

That is a nice day hike or backpack, I recall some rocky trail sections.

Neil, you inspired me. :D I'm heading out in the AM.....I need a little break, anyway. I'm headed to Indiana's miserable excuse for a Wilderness Area.

It's only major good point is the fact that it has camping out on the back woods and it's free to hikers. I'll be somewhere on the Peninsula Trail along the lake front.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/trail_rogs/deam_wilderness.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/ccdw.htm

By the way, the little bag on top of my backpack is my tent, for whoever it was that asked about how small it packs.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack007.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack005.jpg

I should be back Thursday afternoon, or thereabouts.

Did you say 10 miles loaded one way? That's too much distance for a first-timer of unknown ability, especially on a trail that is rated easy to difficult. I've done a lot of backpacking over the years. One of my coworkers got me to plan a trip with him because he didn't know anyone else that backpacked. He showed me the route and distances, and I advised him to shorten the distances each day. He reluctantly agreed but then afterwards he said he was glad that we did. This hike was 4 nights in Colorado. I would say 6-8 miles each way would be more than enough.

Get your backpack several weeks in advance, and your shoes. Load the pack with weight similar to your hike and walk around your neighborhood. Look for hills, stadium bleachers, office building stairs, anything that gives you some training on hills.

Plan your gear and food. Are you taking a tent? You probably are but I have backpacked without one at times. Be sure you know how to set up the tent ahead of time. Plan your clothing. You won't need much for an overnight, but you do need to bring some bad weather gear just in case. At a minimum you would need a rain shell. For an overnight hike in warm weather you could get by with one or two shirts, one pair of shorts, one or two pair of socks, one pair of shoes.

For an overnight you don't need a lot of elaborate food or cooking gear. You should have some way to heat your dinner. Your lunches and breakfast can be some kind of packaged food that doesn't need to be heated. You might even get by with an MRE for dinner and then you don't need to carry any form of heating gear. Depending on the trail you have to determine how much water to carry with you at any given time. You should also have a water purification device (filter) or at least water purification tablets.

I think you could get all of this down to about 30 pounds or so. The challenge is to resist taking too much stuff.

There are whole books written about backpacking so it is hard to cover it all in one forum post.

My suggestion is don't do it in August. Yuck!

Sorry, I used to live in Ohio and the summer is brutal, I would never backpack in those months. Springand fall, however, are great. It's the opposite in the mountains of Colorado, summer is bearable (and cool overnight) while spring and fall can get too cold overnight.

Beyond that though, I would look into ultralight backpacking. Do a google search, you will find plenty of material. I'm a dedicated lightweight backpacker, it made me actually enjoy the sport instead of be miserable. Try to get your base weight down, it's mostly the big three: tent/shelter, sleeping bag, sleeping pad. I think there's usually one more, but I'm not sure if it's food or clothing. Don't take more clothing than you need, maybe a pair for the day and something else to sleep in if you think it will be cold overnight and you'll need a change of clothes. There's always the insulation layer and rain layer.

If your pack is light enough most ultralighters recommend not wearing boots. A pound on the feet is like five on the back.

This is all valid advice, and well-meant, but I'm going to disregard much of it. Here's why:

- the Laurel Highlands of PA is much cooler than flatlands in the Midwest.

- I need boots because I'm heavier than the average hiker, and I have structural problems that need the stability a full boot provides. I've hiked in running shoes, trail runners, and boots, and even on short trails boots win.

The Laurel Highlands Trail has shelters every ten or so miles, so I'll probably not need a tent.

Did you say 10 miles loaded one way? That's too much distance for a first-timer of unknown ability, especially on a trail that is rated easy to difficult. I've done a lot of backpacking over the years. One of my coworkers got me to plan a trip with him because he didn't know anyone else that backpacked. He showed me the route and distances, and I advised him to shorten the distances each day. He reluctantly agreed but then afterwards he said he was glad that we did. This hike was 4 nights in Colorado. I would say 6-8 miles each way would be more than enough.

Get your backpack several weeks in advance, and your shoes. Load the pack with weight similar to your hike and walk around your neighborhood. Look for hills, stadium bleachers, office building stairs, anything that gives you some training on hills.

Plan your gear and food. Are you taking a tent? You probably are but I have backpacked without one at times. Be sure you know how to set up the tent ahead of time. Plan your clothing. You won't need much for an overnight, but you do need to bring some bad weather gear just in case. At a minimum you would need a rain shell. For an overnight hike in warm weather you could get by with one or two shirts, one pair of shorts, one or two pair of socks, one pair of shoes.

For an overnight you don't need a lot of elaborate food or cooking gear. You should have some way to heat your dinner. Your lunches and breakfast can be some kind of packaged food that doesn't need to be heated. You might even get by with an MRE for dinner and then you don't need to carry any form of heating gear. Depending on the trail you have to determine how much water to carry with you at any given time. You should also have a water purification device (filter) or at least water purification tablets.

I think you could get all of this down to about 30 pounds or so. The challenge is to resist taking too much stuff.

There are whole books written about backpacking so it is hard to cover it all in one forum post.

I agree. Shortening the distance is probably the way to go. From Ohiopyle to the first shelter is 6.3 miles, and that might be the best route to hike. The Northern end of the trail to the first shelter is about 6 miles, so I could start out there if I wish.

Neil, you inspired me. :D I'm heading out in the AM.....I need a little break, anyway. I'm headed to Indiana's miserable excuse for a Wilderness Area.

It's only major good point is the fact that it has camping out on the back woods and it's free to hikers. I'll be somewhere on the Peninsula Trail along the lake front.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/trail_rogs/deam_wilderness.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/ccdw.htm

By the way, the little bag on top of my backpack is my tent, for whoever it was that asked about how small it packs.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack007.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack005.jpg

I should be back Thursday afternoon, or thereabouts.

Tom,

No wolves. No broken bones. No French irregular verbs than induce heart trouble in middle aged Clydes. OK?

Neil B.

I've got a few suggestions, but I haven't spent much time in PA, so you'll want to "adjust" them a bit. First, gear:



Water purifier. You'll still want to carry a bottle of the stuff, and probably won't know exactly when the next time you'll be able to fill up will be. But, you'll shed a lot of weight from your back this way.
Wool base layer, top and bottom. I feel like a broken record always suggesting this, but it's just the right amount of insulation, even when wet, wicks sweat away from your skin, and doesn't stink, so you'll only need to carry one. You probably won't need a change of outerwear, either.
Rain gear. It probably won't snow, but you'll be miserable if you get soaked. This is the one extra worth its weight.
A wide brimmed hat, to avoid a sunburn. Ideally bring a cheap cloth one you can dunk in a river, to cool you off.



Otherwise, carry whatever you need to be comfortable, and nothing more. You can use your tripod or monopod as a hiking stick. I've been wondering about solar chargers for camping trips, to keep the camera going, but I hear a lot of them aren't really up to snuff.

Tie your food up, at least 100 yards downwind from you. If a bear catches wind of something yummy, it will spend the night trying to climb the tree, and hopefully give up.

You probably already know how to adjust a backpack, but if not, there are some quick tutorials on the web. It's worth saying that you should pull the waist belt as tight as you can, to transfer the weight from your back and shoulders.

Thanks. According to reports, the big critter problems will be bear, timber rattlers, and deer mice.

Get your backpack several weeks in advance, and your shoes. Load the pack with weight similar to your hike and walk around your neighborhood. Look for hills, stadium bleachers, office building stairs, anything that gives you some training on hills.

I remember doing that before my first trip--six days in the backcountry of Glacier N.P. Got some long ot of stares walking though the streets of Philly looking like that. Fortunately, I was close enough to a large park system with some hills.

Unless you can reserve a spot in the shelter, might it not be a good idea to bring a tent in case it's full when you arrive? August can be a buggy time.

Thanks. According to reports, the big critter problems will be bear, timber rattlers, and deer mice.

Ya!! Those deer mice are terrible scary~

Might want to bring some traps with you just-in-case? :innocent:

Go minimal with equipment. Less weight is best. And I mean MINIMAL... Look up "penny stove" and make one (free). Check out the freezer bag cooking web site (cheap and light). Only boil water for meals (no cleanup). One little metal cup for a kitchen. You probably do not need a tent, use a small plastic tarp instead... Get rid of the weight and have a blast.

The Laurel Highlands Trail has shelters every ten or so miles, so I'll probably not need a tent.Note that shelters are 1st come, 1st serve and sharing is common. However, if it's a small shelter you may be left out in the cold / rain. I would bring a small tent as a backup just in case. Be aware that the campgrounds in and around Ohiopyle will be packed with drunk rafters during that time of year (an issue if you camp out before starting the trail). However, the southern end of the trail is a bit more rugged (harder backpacking).

I've through-hiked the LHT and it is spectacular, especially if you manage to catch the fall colors. There are some challenging climbs but I can't comment further until I know what section you're planning on doing. Be prepared for cool weather at night.

As for gear, most people tend to overdo it. When you get advice on this (or other boards) people will be chiming in with advice from the regions that they are familiar with. Gear recommendations for walking through swamps in Florida will differ from climbing a 14'er in Colorado. Just like in cycling you can drop major $$$ buying backpacking gear. Does your friend backpack? He/she may already have a lot of the communal gear (stove, cook gear, etc., etc.).

Get your new hiking boots soon and start to break them in. This mean wearing them daily for at least 1-2 weeks (with hiking socks). It sounds like you want some heavy duty leather boots; these take longer to break in versus the fabric options. As for specific recommendations, I like Vasque boots (Sundowner or Summit) because they are constructed very well and come in different widths. However, they are not cheap and I wouldn't recommend them unless you -really- got into hiking or backpacking (making the expense worthwhile).

A note about shelters in the LHHT - they are on a reserved basis, and there are usually 4-8 of them at each shelter area. You reserve the shelter, you pay for it like a cabin rental. I made the mistake of occupying the wrong shelter one November and got rousted at 10pm by a DCNR cop. I got off easy - I didn't have to move. The poor kids in the shelter next to me - they took over a shelter because they were soaked (it had been snowing all day) - didn't have a reservation and had been cowboy camping the trail two nights before... Well, they got a $400 ticket and almost ejected from the park. There were only three of us camping that night and had the whole park to our selves... until then.

If you reserve a shelter, than you won't need a tent - pretty much guaranteed. Check the park's website for pump/well closures - they're listed. I usually filter the water on that trail anyway, just to take some of the iron taste out of it.

BTW - we also have bobcats and coyote out here.

Judy

A note about shelters in the LHHT - they are on a reserved basis, and there are usually 4-8 of them at each shelter area. You reserve the shelter, you pay for it like a cabin rental. I made the mistake of occupying the wrong shelter one November and got rousted at 10pm by a DCNR cop. I got off easy - I didn't have to move. The poor kids in the shelter next to me - they took over a shelter because they were soaked (it had been snowing all day) - didn't have a reservation and had been cowboy camping the trail two nights before... Well, they got a $400 ticket and almost ejected from the park. There were only three of us camping that night and had the whole park to our selves... until then.

If you reserve a shelter, than you won't need a tent - pretty much guaranteed. Check the park's website for pump/well closures - they're listed. I usually filter the water on that trail anyway, just to take some of the iron taste out of it.

BTW - we also have bobcats and coyote out here.

Judy

So stealth camping didn't work out for them, did it?

(ducking)


Oh wait..... this isn't the Touring Forum......

Note that shelters are 1st come, 1st serve and sharing is common. However, if it's a small shelter you may be left out in the cold / rain. I would bring a small tent as a backup just in case. Be aware that the campgrounds in and around Ohiopyle will be packed with drunk rafters during that time of year (an issue if you camp out before starting the trail). However, the southern end of the trail is a bit more rugged (harder backpacking).

I've through-hiked the LHT and it is spectacular, especially if you manage to catch the fall colors. There are some challenging climbs but I can't comment further until I know what section you're planning on doing. Be prepared for cool weather at night.

As for gear, most people tend to overdo it. When you get advice on this (or other boards) people will be chiming in with advice from the regions that they are familiar with. Gear recommendations for walking through swamps in Florida will differ from climbing a 14'er in Colorado. Just like in cycling you can drop major $$$ buying backpacking gear. Does your friend backpack? He/she may already have a lot of the communal gear (stove, cook gear, etc., etc.).

Get your new hiking boots soon and start to break them in. This mean wearing them daily for at least 1-2 weeks (with hiking socks). It sounds like you want some heavy duty leather boots; these take longer to break in versus the fabric options. As for specific recommendations, I like Vasque boots (Sundowner or Summit) because they are constructed very well and come in different widths. However, they are not cheap and I wouldn't recommend them unless you -really- got into hiking or backpacking (making the expense worthwhile).

I've already had to get over sticker shock for cycling gear and athletic shoes. I'm past my "boots should cost 20 bucks like they do at Payless" stage. :-)

I'm trying to avoid purchasing hiking boots online. I wear a 12.5 4E in New Balance athletic shoes, and not only is that size hard to find, I don't even know if it's correct for boots. There's a Cabella's superstore an hour from me, so I might need to take a day and drive out there. After I get my boots I could visit the bear display in the store. :-)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs543.ash1/31776_1390651938803_1607271639_903315_4643029_n.jpg

After I get my boots I could visit the bear display in the store. :-)


To practice your running, or, screaming like a little girl? :innocent:

Neil, I would suggest that you find a quality outdoor store that specialized in backpacking. Cabellas doesn't have a huge array of backpacking boots as their focus is more hunting oriented (shorter hikes, standing still longer, better insulation and "waterproofness", much heavier, etc.). REI may be a good place to start, they have a wide variety of backpacking boots & offer an exceptional return policy. Asolo, Zamberlan, & Vasque are some great brands that REI carries.

Sizing will differ between manufacturers. Bring socks with you to the store. I wear anything from thin Smartwool socks to thick wool socks + liners. I brought in both sets of socks and tried my boots on with both. Definitely "climb" something in the store where your heel is not touching the ground. REI usually has a 3-4ft ramp for this purpose. Expect full leather boots to slightly stretch as they break in.

Take a wide-brimmed hat with plenty of ventilation in the crown, and walking or hiking stick.

My first backpacking trip will be an overnight this August, with a friend of mine, on this trail:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/hiking/laurel.aspx

I'm borrowing a backpack, and I'll have upgraded my hiking boots by then.

Any suggestions for my trip, or my training? My current hiking ability is four some miles unloaded without any problems at all. Distance I'll be hiking should be about ten or so miles.

1st and foremost have a great trip.

It will be cooler in the Laurel Highlands, but August can still be really hot, muggy and buggy or quite pleasant. The trail is generally very good, well marked and not too rocky. Depending on the section you hike it can moderately hilly to strenuously hilly. As has been pointed out, be sure to reserve a shelter. The shelter /camping areas have pump water that you should (may want) to treat. The DCNR usually stacks some firewood (cut up deadfall) but it tends to be large pieces (You'll wish you had an ax) The shelters are 3 wall log affairs with a raised wood platform and about 1/2 of the front opening filled with a fireplace/chimney. A flat tarp of large sheet of plastic can be quite useful to close up the front of the shelter in bad weather. (As i recall we used a couple of ponchos and some paracord (handy stuff) For a first timer, one shelter interval is a pretty good distance.

Bears in the area are pretty skittish and will run away (they are actively hunted in the area) I've been visited by skunks and red fox in the shelter areas. And of course the shelters will have mice 'cause people are careless with food. And where there's mice there's snakes. Just don't stick your body parts into places you can't see, you be fine.

Have fun

Doug

Neil, you inspired me. :D I'm heading out in the AM.....I need a little break, anyway. I'm headed to Indiana's miserable excuse for a Wilderness Area.

It's only major good point is the fact that it has camping out on the back woods and it's free to hikers. I'll be somewhere on the Peninsula Trail along the lake front.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/trail_rogs/deam_wilderness.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/ccdw.htm

By the way, the little bag on top of my backpack is my tent, for whoever it was that asked about how small it packs.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack007.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Backpack005.jpg

I should be back Thursday afternoon, or thereabouts.

How did this go, Tom?

Went well, other than the mosquitoes. I wound up camping at Blackwell Horse fcamp, though, due to the facrt that most of the back country sites were either full or flooded.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/campingtrip015.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/campingtrip021.jpg

I did have the Horsecamp literally to myself.

I also got to see a juvenile Bald Eagle.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/campingtrip007.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/campingtrip012.jpg

And I made an interesting discovery.....

I am now so toxic due to the warfarin in my blood that I'm lethal to a mosquito if it bites me. They bite, and then the die. The pull out their mandibles and fall off my arm, dead. :p

Any suggestions for my trip, or my training?The best training is to load up a pack and climb up and down a hill repetitively. Wearing the pack is important; there are back muscles that come into play and you'll want to identify any pack fit issues as you practice (not out on the trail).

And I made an interesting discovery.....

I am now so toxic due to the warfarin in my blood that I'm lethal to a mosquito if it bites me. They bite, and then the die. The pull out their mandibles and fall off my arm, dead. :p

Stormcrowe the human skeeter killer! :-)

Neil, I would suggest that you find a quality outdoor store that specialized in backpacking. Cabellas doesn't have a huge array of backpacking boots as their focus is more hunting oriented (shorter hikes, standing still longer, better insulation and "waterproofness", much heavier, etc.). REI may be a good place to start, they have a wide variety of backpacking boots & offer an exceptional return policy. Asolo, Zamberlan, & Vasque are some great brands that REI carries.

Sizing will differ between manufacturers. Bring socks with you to the store. I wear anything from thin Smartwool socks to thick wool socks + liners. I brought in both sets of socks and tried my boots on with both. Definitely "climb" something in the store where your heel is not touching the ground. REI usually has a 3-4ft ramp for this purpose. Expect full leather boots to slightly stretch as they break in.

There's an REI not far from me - I could even bike there from the Schuylkill River Trail. Since I'd not want to ride back with a pair of hiking boots on my rear rack, I'll drive instead....

The fit I'm looking for is snug, but not binding, correct? The problem with my Timberlands when descending Pole Steeple is that my feet would slide forward.

The fit I'm looking for is snug, but not binding, correct? The problem with my Timberlands when descending Pole Steeple is that my feet would slide forward.

I have no advice on shoes, other than Don't go Cheap and make sure the person fitting you has hiking experience, not just a commission in mind. Oh, yeah, from buying good cross training shoes over the last few years, I will not buy another pair unless they are Gortex...Period!

When I was 25 (1983), a buddy and I loaded backpacks with a few essentials, bottles of wild turkey and a bag of pot and hiked a twenty five mile section of the AT in the Smokey Mtns. To this day, my most vivid PAIN memory was the day that consisted of about 7 miles of all DOWNHILL trail. I think my toes had found the ends of my shoes and had turned under and were trying to go back and hang out with the heals:twitchy: I think water boarding would have been a lighter punishment for my stupidity. If it was not for the pot, I would never have made it;) (medicinal purposes ya know:D)

I have no advice on shoes, other than Don't go Cheap and make sure the person fitting you has hiking experience, not just a commission in mind. Oh, yeah, from buying good cross training shoes over the last few years, I will not buy another pair unless they are Gortex...Period!

When I was 25 (1983), a buddy and I loaded backpacks with a few essentials, bottles of wild turkey and a bag of pot and hiked a twenty five mile section of the AT in the Smokey Mtns. To this day, my most vivid PAIN memory was the day that consisted of about 7 miles of all DOWNHILL trail. I think my toes had found the ends of my shoes and had turned under and were trying to go back and hang out with the heals:twitchy: I think water boarding would have been a lighter punishment for my stupidity. If it was not for the pot, I would never have made it;) (medicinal purposes ya know:D)

You must have hiked the Horseshoe Trail here in PA at some time:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4694894982_383ae9bbe1_b.jpg

When I was 25 (1983), a buddy and I loaded backpacks with a few essentials, bottles of wild turkey and a bag of pot and hiked a twenty five mile section of the AT in the Smokey Mtns. To this day, my most vivid PAIN memory was the day that consisted of about 7 miles of all DOWNHILL trail. I think my toes had found the ends of my shoes and had turned under and were trying to go back and hang out with the heals:twitchy: I think water boarding would have been a lighter punishment for my stupidity. If it was not for the pot, I would never have made it;) (medicinal purposes ya know:D)

You realize that you can no longer run for a polical office now that this was made public? ....er...wait....ummmm..... maybe......you.....c..........awwweee crap....nevermind!

The fit I'm looking for is snug, but not binding, correct? The problem with my Timberlands when descending Pole Steeple is that my feet would slide forward.Correct. Definitely walk up and down a ramp... your feet should not slide forward or back. Note that if you are looking at full leather boots there will be some stiffness which will lessen as you break them in. As I mentioned above, wearing the socks you plan on using is critical (especially when sizing for width).

You realize that you can no longer run for a polical office now that this was made public?

I dashed those hopes a long time ago, with much larger links on my chain;)

You realize that you can no longer run for a polical office now that this was made public? ....er...wait....ummmm..... maybe......you.....c..........awwweee crap....nevermind!

But did he inhale? :-)

Correct. Definitely walk up and down a ramp... your feet should not slide forward or back. Note that if you are looking at full leather boots there will be some stiffness which will lessen as you break them in. As I mentioned above, wearing the socks you plan on using is critical (especially when sizing for width).

Baring some other discovery between now and when I get paid next week, these are the winner:

http://www.rei.com/product/706762

http://media.rei.com/media/dd/e735e4c7-6bf1-4e0b-842e-7ca002606ecc.jpg

They were comfortable, fit properly, and my feet didn't slide when I walked down the ramp. I'll replace the cheap insoles, but other than that I think I've found my boots.

BTW, REI is a neat place. Both staffers who helped me shared information on their recent hiking trips. One of them even suggested I consider the type of boot they use, which is a Vasque something or other. The Vasque fit decently, but not as well as the ASOLO.

BTW, REI is a neat place. Both staffers who helped me shared information on their recent hiking trips. One of them even suggested I consider the type of boot they use, which is a Vasque something or other. The Vasque fit decently, but not as well as the ASOLO.

They are usually very helpful people. When I bought my pack the staffer, even though it was crazy during the first Saturday of their spring sale, took the time to fit my perspective buy properly. He then loaded it up with about 30 lbs. worth of giant beanbags and told me to walk around the store for a long as I liked to get a feel for it. They were similarly helpful when I bought boots.

OK, I'm picking up the boots this morning. Now for a possibly silly question.....

Stream crossings. How do you cross? Remove your boots and socks and wade across? Should I carry a pair of water shoes for such occasions? I can't imagine that wearing boots in a stream that's above boot level is the right idea.

OK, I usually try to cross on rocks if possible. If not, I'll pull the boots and socks and wade across barefoot if the streambed allows.

OK, I usually try to cross on rocks if possible. If not, I'll pull the boots and socks and wade across barefoot if the streambed allows.

I was stopped on my last excursion. Having been drenched descending Pole Steeple, I didn't want to ford Tumbling Run. The three mile trail along Tumbling Run is blazed, but there's no bridge, natural or otherwise, to get across. So the scenic waterfalls have to wait for my next trip.

Stream crossings. How do you cross?

Carefully~! :twitchy:

Stream/ river crossings are handled differently by different folks. Some people prefer barefoot, others go with campshoes. I generally try to find a point (sometimes going off the trail up and down the stream) where I can cross without removing my boots. Since my campshoes are generally Teva sandals, I have no qualms about wearing them for a crossing if I can't find a suitable crossing point.

Baring some other discovery between now and when I get paid next week, these are the winner:

http://www.rei.com/product/706762

http://media.rei.com/media/dd/e735e4c7-6bf1-4e0b-842e-7ca002606ecc.jpg

They were comfortable, fit properly, and my feet didn't slide when I walked down the ramp. I'll replace the cheap insoles, but other than that I think I've found my boots.

BTW, REI is a neat place. Both staffers who helped me shared information on their recent hiking trips. One of them even suggested I consider the type of boot they use, which is a Vasque something or other. The Vasque fit decently, but not as well as the ASOLO.

I wore them out of the store, all day at work, and till I got home. While I didn't ask them to do much beyond going to the copier and back at work, they remained comfortable. Stiff and snug, but comfortable. And they are a SMALLER size than I anticipated.

Stream/ river crossings are handled differently by different folks. Some people prefer barefoot, others go with campshoes. I generally try to find a point (sometimes going off the trail up and down the stream) where I can cross without removing my boots. Since my campshoes are generally Teva sandals, I have no qualms about wearing them for a crossing if I can't find a suitable crossing point.

I wear Crocs in camp, but I'm not sure I'd trust them to a flowing PA stream or creek. I have a pair of water shoes I'll probably take with me. PA creeks tend to have rocky bottoms, and I'd be afraid to cross them unshod.

However, I'm not going as hardcore as photographer Scott E. Brown. The author of Pennsylvania's Waterfalls often brings waders with him so he can cross deeper water in search of that perfect shot.

OK, I'm picking up the boots this morning. Now for a possibly silly question.....



Even sillier question..... I plan on using motorized camping areas in PA State Forests where I can. These sites are free, and require nothing more than a camping permit. However, none of them have potable water, and few have even a primitive privy. State forest rules require all waste disposal to be more than 200 yards from a road, trail, or water source, and below ground. So, do I bring a trowel or a shovel? Or not even bother, as some of my more outdoor-minded friends suggest - they just cover it up with leaves and sticks.

My first field test for the boots - last evening on the Lenape Trail in French Creek State Park:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4742642208_707957a154_b.jpg

I hiked two miles on the rocky, but flat and wooded trail.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4742008359_d12ff712bb_b.jpg

Just before the end of my two miles, I found these attractive looking mushrooms. I was reminded of Jboyd's youthful hike with the pot and the Wild Turkey. :-)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4742651810_604394b6cb_b.jpg

After the hike, I added a half-mile or so strolling around Hopewell Lake.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4742666838_b2d0c1c606_b.jpg

The only problem I had on the hike was some slipping forward in the boots, but that, I'm sure, is a problem with my not lacing tight enough. Also, I need to replace the insoles with Superfeet; the cheap insoles don't give me enough arch support.

I wear Crocs in camp, but I'm not sure I'd trust them to a flowing PA stream or creek. I have a pair of water shoes I'll probably take with me. PA creeks tend to have rocky bottoms, and I'd be afraid to cross them unshod.


Forget the Crocs! I wear them boating - and they're fine for that. But, once completely wet, your feet tend to slip around inside them badly - which means zero support.

Are deer mice considered a major threat because of hantavirus? I saw a segment on Oregon Field Guide (I think) about Forest Park's deadly mice and I think they're the same little guys. Last week, my cat caught a shrew that sneaked under the front door, and today he brought in a RAT. I think it had been living on our compost. I also think my cat is trying to bubo me.

Are deer mice considered a major threat because of hantavirus? I saw a segment on Oregon Field Guide (I think) about Forest Park's deadly mice and I think they're the same little guys. Last week, my cat caught a shrew that sneaked under the front door, and today he brought in a RAT. I think it had been living on our compost. I also think my cat is trying to bubo me.

I can't say. There have been only four confirmed cases in PA in 17 years.

Nope, you cat is giving you presents. He can't imagine a nicer gift than a fresh caught rodent.


Are deer mice considered a major threat because of hantavirus? I saw a segment on Oregon Field Guide (I think) about Forest Park's deadly mice and I think they're the same little guys. Last week, my cat caught a shrew that sneaked under the front door, and today he brought in a RAT. I think it had been living on our compost. I also think my cat is trying to bubo me.

I feel bad because I was like, "WTH, SACHA!" and then dumped the two of them unceremoniously on the deck. He was really disappointed in my reaction. He growled at me, but it was like, What are you going to do--bite me? No way was he dropping that rat.