Touring - Observations about my new Touring Bike vs. my Racing Bike

I've been lurking over here in Touring for a year. Last spring I joined ACA and got all hyped about touring, after 20 years of hammering around on nice race bikes. Instead of buying a new bike, though, I put $350 in used eBay parts into a nice commuting bike (Marin Belvedere) I already had. Drop bars, XT der, 9sp brifters, rear rack, etc. It was(is) great for commuting, but the 17" chainstays aren't enough for my foot and decent sized panniers.

So last month I bought a beautiful Olive Green 09 LHT frame, intending to dismantle the Marin and build up the Surly. But I got to thinking how nice it would be to have a loaner touring bike so I could invite friends. So I kept the Marin unmolested and started from scratch with the LHT.

I've now had it completed for three weeks and I have 300-some miles on it. In a word, I am in LOVE! I've ridden it on a round trip to three grocery stores and come home with 90 pounds of groceries (4 Ortliebs and a BOB trailer). I've commuted with a single Ortlieb on back. I've ridden for the hell of it with only a Topeak rack trunk. I've ridden it "naked" (only a tiny seatbag with tire levers, tube, money). I've taken it on two race-team group rides and averaged 18mph on rolling hills. (This was hard work, but very rewarding.) I've cruised around Atlanta with absolutely no agenda, just out discovering. I've loaned it to a friend.

It has been the best conversation starter in the biking world I've ever owned. Nobody knows what it is but all are enthralled with its big, rugged, utility.

And now for the stunner: I had abandoned my $6000 titanium race bike ever since getting the Surly. Yesterday morning I rode with two friends so I loaned out both of my touring bikes and rode the Merlin. I was shocked at how annoying it was! Jerky. Skittish. A brief stint through a gravel parking lot was nearly impossible; I had to walk it while my friends just rode on ahead. I was sore and achy after 2 hours, where the LHT leaves me wanting more after that time. I heard groanings and noises from the bike that I never hear from the Surly. Everything about it felt fragile, and this is a titanium bike, not plastic!

Of course, the upside is the 15-pound weight, compared to 38 or so on the Surly. When the road turns up the Merlin is the clear winner. Or if you need to hammer along at a 19-22mph clip for an hour or so, no contest. But who actually needs to do that? :)

Here's how I felt, for the car afficianodos among us: It's like I had always driven my Porsche 911 GT3RS around town and for sporty drives in the mountains. I recognized the value of a utility vehicle like a station wagon, but I had no delusions they could be fun. Then one day I tried an Audi RS6 Avant, or maybe a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and found that yes, they haul lots of stuff, but they are also great handling, fun to drive cars that lavish you in comfort and ask nothing of you in return. It's like the best of both worlds.

I don't think I'll give up my race bikes anytime soon (I ride with guys who want to go so fast I can barely hang on with a 15-pound bike), but I doubt I'll take them out for pleasure very often in the future. The long geometry and upright seating is just too freeing! I'm even starting to get used to looking like a goober. (Yeah, to roadies everything about the posture, etc. of the LHT looks really strange. But my perception is really changing on that.)

I rode 400 miles in Provence last fall on a Lynskey ti race bike with a Topeak seatpost rack. I now realize that trip would have been so much more comfortable and enjoyable on my LHT! Dang! Now I must do it again! :)

NGB

Sounds like you need an "endurance" road bike (Specialized Roubaix, Cervelo RS, Look 566, Giant Defy, Felt Z-series, etc) rather than a race bike. My 16lb RS is good for 6-8 hours/day @ 18-22mph. Handling is more relaxed than a race bike (Specialized Tarmac, Cervelo R3) but more responsive than my touring bike. Overall, it's a pretty good compromise...

Sounds like you need an "endurance" road bike (Specialized Roubaix, Cervelo RS, Look 566, Giant Defy, Felt Z-series, etc) rather than a race bike. My 16lb RS is good for 6-8 hours/day @ 18-22mph. Handling is more relaxed than a race bike (Specialized Tarmac, Cervelo R3) but more responsive than my touring bike. Overall, it's a pretty good compromise...

That is exactly the sort of bicycle that I want to compliment my Surly Long Haul Trucker. Something faster and more agile than a touring bike, but also more comfy to ride than a racing bike. But I bet I would agree with NoGaBiker's assessment if I had another bicycle-the Surly is my only bike and it's a fantastic only bike as it is :)

*shrug* Sounds to me like you've got Newbikeitis.

Sooner or later, the novelty will wear off, you'll notice that it handles like a minivan, you'll start feeling the extra pounds on a occasional hill, and maybe you'll get tired of putting an extra 5% into those group rides.

Of course, it's always handy to have a versatile bike around, but I expect you'll be jonesing for the Ti, or a new carbon fiber bike, at some point in the indeterminate future.

Congratulations NoGaBiker.


Newbikeitis.
:lol:


you'll notice that it handles like a minivanActually, depending on the build, the LHT can be made to appear quite responsive, especially with lighter/smaller wheels which reduces trail. It never reaches the level of a race bike of course.


you'll start feeling the extra pounds on a occasional hillThen again, when riding just for fun, which touring is for myself, the LHT, built with a MTB crankset, just laughs at the steepest hills.


and maybe you'll get tired of putting an extra 5% into those group rides.No contest here: I tried to follow the boys by making my LHT as light as possible (23 lb), to no avail. :cry: It was no fun at all although I got complimented for my enhanced drafting capabilities. :lol:


Of course, it's always handy to have a versatile bike around, but I expect you'll be jonesing for the Ti, or a new carbon fiber bike, at some point in the indeterminate future.Likely, but not when touring for sure.

Well, I can relate very well. I have a 2005 Specialize Ruby Expert, full carbon bike which I used to ride exclusively-averaging a 100 miles a week (I know, I know, a paltry amount given the company). Then I got my Surly LHT two years ago, because my goal is to do a tour of the Pacific Coast, and well, lets just say that the Ruby is collecting dust. I plan on selling it, even though it cost me twice the LHT. The Surly LHT is by far the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden, and I am no spring chicken.

OP-What did you do to the Surly LHT to make it weigh 38 lbs?:twitchy:

Sounds like you need an "endurance" road bike (Specialized Roubaix, Cervelo RS, Look 566, Giant Defy, Felt Z-series, etc) rather than a race bike. My 16lb RS is good for 6-8 hours/day @ 18-22mph. Handling is more relaxed than a race bike (Specialized Tarmac, Cervelo R3) but more responsive than my touring bike. Overall, it's a pretty good compromise...

Hmmmmm! what about a 1980's sport tourer, or maybe a classic Italian steel frame with some modern components, fast, agile and comfortable.

Nothing like a good Surly LHT bicycle.I put lower gears on mine I go slow but hills are easy to go up too.:-)

I bought a Novara Randonee last month and have been riding it around town as my utility bike. I have a 2300 Trek that is a jet plane by comparison, but I, too, like the feel and ride of the tourer. When I'm feeling full of energy and want to zoom up hills, I ride the trek. the rest of the time I'm leaning more and more towards the tourer. It's great to have two completely different bikes. I especially enjoy just tooling along on the Randonee without any concern for speed or acceleration. My Randonee must be 30lbs before the U-lock and other stuff I put on, so every few days I feel the urge to jump on the Trek for the sheer pleasure of pedaling a light bike.

I think I can relate to your excitement. I recently discovered the joys of a good steel touring bike geometry. I think as I get older, I'll go to the tourer more and more as an everyday ride. However, no bike can fulfill every possible need. I went riding today with a fast friend and there was no way I would have enjoyed the ride as much being left behind his skinny tired road bike while I putted away on my comfortable fat tire tourer. I enjoyed the ride very much keeping up with my light and tight alum racer. On-the-other-hand, I'm starting to sip the cool-aid a bit as I look wantingly at the LHT and Saga framesets.

OP-What did you do to the Surly LHT to make it weigh 38 lbs?:twitchy:

It wasn't hard! Topeak rear rack, Jannd front rack, small pump, 3 cages, seatbag (1 pound loaded) and single Ortlieb (as pictured) with 1 pound of odds and ends (hat, rag, light cablelock) = 40.6 pounds as you see her. I didn't weigh the bike naked, but this is how I ride it. By contrast, the weight of the one above it in full riding configuration is 16.2 pounds.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z289/NoGaBiker/RIMG0009.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z289/NoGaBiker/RIMG0010.jpg

new Trek Pilot. Its not your $6000 race bike, but it is a light performance road bike with touring geometry.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/#pilot

Thanks for the sporty-bike suggestions, but I'm not looking for another bike. I'm delighted with the LHT, and when I want something lighter and sportier-handling I'm set with the Merlin. I was mainly posting my observations that the Surly is a blast to ride and is so comfortable that it has made me realize how relatively uncomfortable race bikes are, when I never really knew that because that's all I ride for long distances. My commuter and beach/utility bikes are uber-comfortable but I rarely ride them more than 12 or 15 miles.

I'm looking forward to doing a century soon -- not a formal century, but just a hundred-mile ride -- to see if I feel better at the end than I typically do on the Merlin.

you might try a different fork on your race bike if you think it's too "twitchy"

you might try a different fork on your race bike if you think it's too "twitchy"

Okay, I appreciate the intended helpfulness but I guess my comments went over some heads. I've been riding race bikes since 1983 -- I'm not really trying to diagnose a "problem" with my race bikes. I'm trying to draw out the fact that in comparison to the wonderful ride of the LHT they -- and most of all the Merlin -- seem twitchy, nervous, etc. It is the nature of these type bikes. There's nothing wrong with the Ouzo Pro fork. I was trying to give a big shout out to you touring guys by way of saying your rigs are wonderful and I'm enjoying mine.

Thanks.

no no no,

you're wrong, plus you need to buy more stuff ;)

glad you like the LHT, I thought about this thread as I rode my touring bike home this evening, and I totally agree about a stable, comfortable tank. Its like cruising in a '64 caddy with sweet power steering and a bench seat...

no no no,

you're wrong, plus you need to buy more stuff ;)

glad you like the LHT, I thought about this thread as I rode my touring bike home this evening, and I totally agree about a stable, comfortable tank. Its like cruising in a '64 caddy with sweet power steering and a bench seat...

Tooo funny you mention that. Here's one of my cars!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z289/NoGaBiker/0703deVillePurchase-10.jpg

Nice post. I have an LHT but no experience riding a lightweight road bike so I am always wondering. Some day...

I do know that the enjoyment of riding the LHT and the versatility of being able to haul some stuff for commuting, or pick up groceries on the way home, gets me out on the bike more, so that's all good. I also like to be able to pick a rough road on the way home, or charge over sections of gravel or whatever. I guess the bike just fits my style (or lack thereof). :^)

Tooo funny you mention that. Here's one of my cars!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z289/NoGaBiker/0703deVillePurchase-10.jpg


lucky sumbi*ch. that is beautiful.

Tooo funny you mention that. Here's one of my cars!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z289/NoGaBiker/0703deVillePurchase-10.jpg

That is BEAUTIFUL.

Double post

lucky sumbi*ch. that is beautiful.

Thanks! As you can tell from my house, some sacrifices had to be made! ;)

I had a carbon Giant road bike once and didn't like it either. But I come from the MTB side of biking so that wasn't too suprising. Jerky, skittish, yeah :) Right before that I had an older aluminum Trek road bike and I actually liked it better. But I though a light carbon bike would be an upgrade.

Now, after riding the steel Kona Sutra frame (quality issues aside) I am a convert to steel.

If I ever get a road bike again, it'll be a steel frame. I stopped obsessing over the weight years ago.

Congrats on your bike, looks neat with orange tape :)

Oh, so you're using brifters with Deore XT RD? No problems?

Thanks! As you can tell from my house, some sacrifices had to be made! ;)


well, on the upside, at least you can live pretty comfortably in the trunk... :)

While I love my touring bike... I love my Giant TCR just as much for different reasons. In time you may ride the tourer more but the itch will return to throw your leg over the Merlin.

I have much more fun on group rides on my TCR compared to my tourer.... It's just a fact in my world.

For the love of god................... keep the Merlin :)

Congrats on your bike, looks neat with orange tape :)

Oh, so you're using brifters with Deore XT RD? No problems?

Thanks! I installed some orange Euskatel Euskardi road pedals I had lying around when I was building it and realized that I liked the dark green and orange, at least for a little while. But I wanted to use SPD shoes, not SPD-SL, so had to put SPD pedals on there.

No problems at all with the brifters! On this bike I use Tiagra shifters, Tiagra crank, 105 triple FD, and XD RD. On my Marin I went with Tiagra front/105 rear shifters, FSA crank, 105 triple FD, and XD RD. Both shift perfectly.

I just bought a 25 ring for the front of the Tiagra crank from Peter White, but haven't installed it yet. The bike is riding so well, and I don't need the 25 around town, that I'll leave the 30 on for awhile before swapping.

For the love of god................... keep the Merlin :)

No fears! It's a great tool for fast group rides. But I think I'll use the Surly more (at least till the shiny wears off) for solos and rides with my more casual friends; it's much more fun to go slow on than the Merlin and since we never average more than 15 on such rides, it's perfect.

i got a similar rekindled love for my hardtail MTB (which is my tourer, XC ride) after i finished 320km in about 18 hours. i know it was slow... but it was absolutely HELL ON WHEELS (a little reference to the documentary) but a much shorter version. ever since, i think it was SO MUCH nicer to ride a mtb, cut out road buzz and chatter with 40 PSI, 2.1" tires (i'm running loew pressures because i'm on tubeless).... and it was sweet.

NoGaBiker, congrats for coming into touring!

OP, I absolutely get it. I'm not about to get rid of my other bikes but if I had to have only one, it would be the tourer for the sheer versatility and comfort it provides. Moderate off-road capability, reasonably responsive handling when unloaded, happy to haul enough gear for unsupported touring and with the gearing to haul it up 15 - 20% hills, and a riding position that - admittedly after much trial and error - keeps me comfortable for some very long days.

What is wrong with have multiple bikes for every mood. I only take out my Klein Quantum for Sunday club rides. Every other day of the week I am on my touring bikes.

My 62cm LHT is the best kind of all-around bicycle I could ask for. I've been riding it for about 4 years and I completely agree with what you're saying: now light racing bikes feel like toys. What impresses me the most about my LHT is its versatility, something that you also touched on. I can strip it down to the bare essentials and it weighs in at about 25lbs--certainly not light by racing standards, but sporty enough for a spirited double century. In its usual, everyday configuration it weighs about 33lbs (weighed without panniers or hb bag, but including rack, frame pump, seatbag w/tools and a patch kit, stainless steel fenders, handlebar bag mount, 32mm Schwalbe Marathon tires, and schmidt dynohub/lamp). Whats great about the LHT is that it rides beautifully unloaded, and even better when its heavily loaded. Its not overly flexy, and yet it soaks up the hits in the road. I never hesitate to go offroad with it either, and it can even handle stints of light single track without fussing.

I think its important to differentiate between bikes that are toys and bikes that are tools. The first is not suitable to handle a diversity of riding surfaces, cannot carry anything besides its rider, does not have lights for riding at night, and is not comfortable on long rides. As such, toy bikes are incapable of fomenting real social change or providing valuable services to humans beyond recreational fitness and the excitement of racing. However, the latter category of bikes have all of the aforementioned essentials that enable a cyclist to use their bicycle for far more than recreation, and I think that the LHT perfectly embodies what a common bicycle should be!

By the way, here is my LHT: http://www.flickr.com/photos/willjl/3697590544/
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/willjl/3697590544/) http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2009/cc623-willlockmiller0309.html

I say "Amen" to the original poster.

Although a racing bike is fun for fitness, or club comraderie, or demonstrating racing prowess, there's nothing like the simple comfort of the touring bike.

I was riding my 1988 Fuji Saratoga on Tuesday evening, and I marvelled at how plain comfortable and great it felt beneath me. The saddle, the upright posture, wider tires, long wheelbase, more narrow randonneur bars...everything! I imagine that I could sleep riding on that bike.

By the way, here is my LHT:

Nice looking ride!

*shrug* Sounds to me like you've got Newbikeitis.

Sooner or later, the novelty will wear off, you'll notice that it handles like a minivan, you'll start feeling the extra pounds on a occasional hill, and maybe you'll get tired of putting an extra 5% into those group rides.

Of course, it's always handy to have a versatile bike around, but I expect you'll be jonesing for the Ti, or a new carbon fiber bike, at some point in the indeterminate future.
Precisely why you need a nice big section of the garage dedicated to the bike stable. Right now Ive got my LHT, a steel Surly Pacer set up for distance and commuting, a CAAD9 rigged for short distance racing. I do triathlons and right now am feeling the itch for a tri bike, and my LHT is one size too big (a 56) and I am looking to trade it for a 54.
Guarenteed, no matter what I do with the bikes right now, in three months I am going to either be wanting another bike, switch out some builds or something. You can't escape it.