Classic & Vintage - amf hercules..or Ross Eurotour...worth it? how old do you think?

So this older guy wants $25 for this Amf Hercules. I would love to know how old it is and if it's worth fixing up to ride with my wife... or there is the Ross Eurotour for $45. Any info on both would be AWESOME!! see pics attached... Thanks!!

If the Ross has a Shimano 3-speed I'd avoid it. It's generally felt that they weren't as rugged as the Sturmeys. Depending on how deep that rust is on the Herc, it could be a decent, theft-resistant grocery-getter. If the fit is okay, lose the ape-hanger handlebars and get some cheap North Roads.

I would take either bike at the price. The Herc looks like it will need a fair amount of work. I have not had issues with the Shimano other than the lack of repair parts.

Aaron :)

The Hercules is really a relabeled Raleigh Sports. Normally, I would much prefer it, but it looks like heck. I'm not a fan of Ross bikes, but that one looks like it was hardly ridden, so I'd prefer it.

The Hercules may need work far exceeding anything you'd expect. It could be an unpleasant surprise.

The Ross does indeed come with a Shimano hub that was known for bad durability. Parts are unavailable. I say ride it until it fails. You can buy or build a replacement wheel.

The A.H. is about 40 years old. Check the threading for the right pedal, stripped out? Need north road bars, and then to shorten the cables and housing. Check the SA hub shifting. The SA hubs sometimes gum up inside, and drowning them with motor oil sometimes loosens them up. Check the wheels..."true"...no "hops"? Brake pads hard and dry like cinder blocks? Tires dry, cracked? Tubes old and porous? Saddle looks embarassing, as does the paint job. Chrome pitted? Keep looking?

The Ross looks nicer, probably needs less work if it needs any. The wheels on those are a PITA to true, though.
Try to pitch the guy for $30. Nice looking bike for you to be seen riding when you are with your wife. Doesn't hurt to keep looking for other bikes.

ya got more pics of both... the herc does seem like it will need just about everything and the ross not much... the Ross does have a shimano 3 speed.... any idea how old it is... see all the pics below. PS been searching a while for bike and in my price range these are the only ones i found so far. Bought the wife an older free spirit and fixed it up, however trying to figure out the rear lace pattern but thats a diff story.

That Hercules is a wreck. If it's that bad cosmetically, it might be as bad mechanically, though I can't say for sure. The opposite applies to the Ross, and no guarantee it's working right, but it seems likely.

I sold those Rosses in about 1979, so it's about 31 years old.

Sweet, Ill shoot for 30 bucks and see if he bites... i'm not afraid of a 333 shimano, ill replace it with a SA hub if need be. I mean at least i'll just need mechanical parts with an already solid frame. thanks for all the help!

I like the Hercules. Problem is that even if the guy gives you the bike for free, it will cost more to get it road worthy than it's worth. But, if you could get it for like $15, then if you find that it's not worth saving you might be able to salvage the hubs, shifter, bottom bracket, maybe the fork and the frame. Lots of work for little probability of success or return. The Ross actually looks like a nice, decent bike for tooling around and it probably doesn't need much work. Might be a good deal.

I have a ross eurotour that I am pretty sure is a 1983 Silver with burgandy trim and seat mine is a 5 speed with the shimono front free wheel system. I have heard all the negatives about this bike but, for a run around town bike I like it. mine has a lot of miles running to get a loaf of bread, lawnmower gas and such . I have made a few 25 mile trips on it. I put new tires tubes and brake pads on it when I got it 3-4 years ago and have road the hell out of it with no troubles (I weigh #300)
Roy

would any parts be tranferable to the ross....ie the rear hub?

I have a ross eurotour that I am pretty sure is a 1983 Silver with burgandy trim and seat mine is a 5 speed with the shimono front free wheel system. I have heard all the negatives about this bike but, for a run around town bike I like it. mine has a lot of miles running to get a loaf of bread, lawnmower gas and such . I have made a few 25 mile trips on it. I put new tires tubes and brake pads on it when I got it 3-4 years ago and have road the hell out of it with no troubles (I weigh #300)
Roy

ya, I won't be doing 25 mile trips... maybe 15 at most.... wife can't hold her own and wears out by then. But I want to get her more involved, I usually mountain bike and I am trying this to get her into biking more with me. nice bike btw.

would any parts be tranferable to the ross....ie the rear hub?

Depends. The Hercules probably has 26 1-3/8 tires and rims. That's 650A, also called EA3 rim. If the Ross is the same, you could take the rear wheel from the Hercules, along with the SA shifter from the bars and the cable (if it's serviceable) and transfer it to the Ross. Considering the condition of the Hercules, that doesn't sound like a good idea, even if possible. The rims look pretty gross and so do the old zinc plated spokes. The problem with trying to replace the Ross rear hub with the hub from the Hercules is that Raleigh used 32 spoke front wheels and 40 spoke rear wheels so that they could use the same spoke on the front and rear even though the hub flanges were different sizes. That means that it's probably not possible to lace the Hercules rear hub to the Ross rim. That assumes that the Hercules is older than about 1970 (plus or minus) when Raleigh changed to 36/36 spokes, like almost everyone else.

Depends. The Hercules probably has 26 1-3/8 tires and rims. That's 650A, also called EA3 rim. If the Ross is the same, you could take the rear wheel from the Hercules, along with the SA shifter from the bars and the cable (if it's serviceable) and transfer it to the Ross. Considering the condition of the Hercules, that doesn't sound like a good idea, even if possible. The rims look pretty gross and so do the old zinc plated spokes. The problem with trying to replace the Ross rear hub with the hub from the Hercules is that Raleigh used 32 spoke front wheels and 40 spoke rear wheels so that they could use the same spoke on the front and rear even though the hub flanges were different sizes. That means that it's probably not possible to lace the Hercules rear hub to the Ross rim. That assumes that the Hercules is older than about 1970 (plus or minus) when Raleigh changed to 36/36 spokes, like almost everyone else.

the more i look at it the more i'm leaning for the ROSS, even if it's an hour away

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by plumberroy http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=10974361#post10974361)
I have a ross eurotour that I am pretty sure is a 1983 Silver with burgandy trim and seat mine is a 5 speed with the shimono front free wheel system. I have heard all the negatives about this bike but, for a run around town bike I like it. mine has a lot of miles running to get a loaf of bread, lawnmower gas and such . I have made a few 25 mile trips on it. I put new tires tubes and brake pads on it when I got it 3-4 years ago and have road the hell out of it with no troubles (I weigh #300)
Roy

Here is a ladies version of your bike that I had no problem selling for $100 on CL
It was in very nice condition and with new tires,brakes and such, rode very nice and would see no problem in taking it on a 25+ ride.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/soonerbills/001-14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/soonerbills/004-12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/soonerbills/005-14.jpg

Maybe you should buy both!

I prefer Sturmey Archer hubs over Shimanos, and Hercules over Ross, but in this case I have to vote for the Ross. Like Tom said, the Herc is pretty far gone. I don't know why this is, but I've never seen a Ross that was really classy looking. But they have thick chrome and durable paint and seem to hold up well.

While we're on the subject, what's wrong with the Shimano hubs? Seems to me they are easy to adjust, and when working properly they're a little easier to deal with than the Sturmey Archer. The problem is if something goes wrong inside the hub, you have little chance of finding replacement parts, or instructions for how to overhaul the thing. So if you are really into internally geared hubs, the Sturmey Archer is the way to go, for sure. But if you're just looking for a reliable bicycle, the Shimano hub may do the job just fine.

Maybe you should buy both!

Offer him $50 cash for both. I bet he takes it. Or are they from different sellers?

If you only get one, I'd get the Ross. The Herc needs work.

Ross. But only because it's in ridable condition as-is. The Herk is really thrashed, and except for the S/A hub, I'd pass on such a mess. Looks like it was owned by a ri tard anyway, and probably NEVER got serviced.

The Ross is servicable. I'd stay away from the Hercules even if it were free. In addition to the rust all over the place, does anyone see anything else wrong in this picture? :

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=155719&d=1276736789

Ah, bent stem, huh?

I prefer Sturmey Archer hubs over Shimanos, and Hercules over Ross, but in this case I have to vote for the Ross. Like Tom said, the Herc is pretty far gone. I don't know why this is, but I've never seen a Ross that was really classy looking. But they have thick chrome and durable paint and seem to hold up well.

While we're on the subject, what's wrong with the Shimano hubs? Seems to me they are easy to adjust, and when working properly they're a little easier to deal with than the Sturmey Archer. The problem is if something goes wrong inside the hub, you have little chance of finding replacement parts, or instructions for how to overhaul the thing. So if you are really into internally geared hubs, the Sturmey Archer is the way to go, for sure. But if you're just looking for a reliable bicycle, the Shimano hub may do the job just fine.

Nothing really wrong with the older Shimano 3 speeds, except getting parts. I had one bike with the Shimano hub and it took me almost a month to hunt down a working shifter. I can still order shifters for the SA hubs.

Aaron :)

ok ok ok I want the ross. But contrary to what RHM said, I think this one does look classy. It just looks like it's been in a basement and never riden. looks like new to me. Ok so what do I offer this guy... DIFFERENT sellers.. for just the Ross?

ok ok ok I want the ross. But contrary to what RHM said, I think this one does look classy. It just looks like it's been in a basement and never riden. looks like new to me. Ok so what do I offer this guy... DIFFERENT sellers.. for just the Ross?


Gee. It's $45. Offer him $35 and settle at $40, if you think that $45 is too much (which it isn't)

Gee. It's $45. Offer him $35 and settle at $40, if you think that $45 is too much (which it isn't)
it's up for $55 sorry his other bike , a free spirit is $45.
so is $40 a good starting offer?

If the Ross is indeed about a 1980 model, it would have the newer model Shimano hub. While I don't think it's AS nice as the Sturmey, it's darn close, and being grease lubricated, it would also be a lot more service-free. I had a Free Spirit 3 speed that had one of those Shimano hubs (and have another rear wheel with one sitting in the garage right now) that I abused the heck out of, and it came back for more. I even made it a cheap "clubman" style bike with drop bars and such, and the hub took all the beating of slowish club rides, along with 100 miles a week in commuting. The'yre really sweet bikes if you're going to be puttering around, but I wouldn't try anything too fancy. And by sweet, I mean sweet like a 20 year old mare that the 4 year olds ride, not sweet like "dude, that was totally sweet!"

The herky, much as I love English 3's, I would consider a basket case. That would be the bike to totally strip, sandblast, powdercoat some color you like, put alloy 700c rims on the original hubs (assuming the originals are still good after 90 years on the Titanic), and ride. But, at that point, it's the ol' lipstick on a pig argument.

If the Ross is indeed about a 1980 model, it would have the newer model Shimano hub. While I don't think it's AS nice as the Sturmey, it's darn close, and being grease lubricated, it would also be a lot more service-free. I had a Free Spirit 3 speed that had one of those Shimano hubs (and have another rear wheel with one sitting in the garage right now) that I abused the heck out of, and it came back for more. I even made it a cheap "clubman" style bike with drop bars and such, and the hub took all the beating of slowish club rides, along with 100 miles a week in commuting. The'yre really sweet bikes if you're going to be puttering around, but I wouldn't try anything too fancy. And by sweet, I mean sweet like a 20 year old mare that the 4 year olds ride, not sweet like "dude, that was totally sweet!"

The herky, much as I love English 3's, I would consider a basket case. That would be the bike to totally strip, sandblast, powdercoat some color you like, put alloy 700c rims on the original hubs (assuming the originals are still good after 90 years on the Titanic), and ride. But, at that point, it's the ol' lipstick on a pig argument.
lol @sweet and lipstick!

ok ok ok I want the ross. But contrary to what RHM said, I think this one does look classy. It just looks like it's been in a basement and never riden. looks like new to me. Ok so what do I offer this guy... DIFFERENT sellers.. for just the Ross?

Well, on something like this, I'm very happy to be corrected! If you think it looks classy, it looks classy.

The guy wants $55 for it? That's pretty reasonable, and perfectly fair. If you want to talk him down for whatever reason, well, that's your call... see if the tires are dry rotted or make up some excuse... but I wouldn't expect the seller to drop his price.

I'd think about buying that bike for $50, if I didn't already have two bikes of a comparable nature already. I sold the aforementioned free spirit for $50.

I'd think about buying that bike for $50, if I didn't already have two bikes of a comparable nature already. I sold the aforementioned free spirit for $50.

now the guy wont answer emails or calls... don't know if its still available..GRR
there was a 60's schwinn racer for sale too.... sold from under me
now a schwinn world tour.. 30 bucks... still avail... but now as cool looking as a 3speed.
i just want to find one!

Sold from under you? That's an interesting concept. Around here, the first one with the money in person gets the bike. So if you already paid for it, then it is now stolen. If you had not paid for it, then it was available to sell to the first one with cash.

In the $30 to $50 price range, you just need to grab whatever suits your fancy and go for it.

Enjoy!

Sold from under you? That's an interesting concept. Around here, the first one with the money in person gets the bike. So if you already paid for it, then it is now stolen. If you had not paid for it, then it was available to sell to the first one with cash.

In the $30 to $50 price range, you just need to grab whatever suits your fancy and go for it.

Enjoy!


$30 bicycles can be dangerous fun. If you're trying to make a buck or two, I think you need to have a very good eye and very good estimation skills. You're probably not looking at very much money between what you pay and what you can sell it for. If you're looking for "personal enrichment," then the journey is the purpose and it really doesn't matter (in my opinion) whether it's $30 or if you overpay.

Sold from under you? That's an interesting concept. Around here, the first one with the money in person gets the bike. So if you already paid for it, then it is now stolen. If you had not paid for it, then it was available to sell to the first one with cash.

In the $30 to $50 price range, you just need to grab whatever suits your fancy and go for it.

Enjoy!

I know what you mean, just seems i call the people and say ill be right over, and BAM its gone when i get there. Oh well such is life and its not meant to be. In the works now is an old raleigh 5speed (SA hub) fully done... gonna be a lot more money, but might be worth it. We'll see....post pics soon =o)

Ok well I didn't get any of those bikes as mentioned earlier... all were sold. :( However id did just get a 1973 Raleigh sport 3 speed. see pic. and a Concord Bentley. no idea what to do with bentley... 5 speed etc.. 80's i think but no knowledge on them.
Will post pic of the concord later... let me know what you think of the Raleigh... oh got both for $20.

Great catch on the Raleigh.

-Kurt

++ on the great Raleigh. I've not seen that color before. Very nice. What is the Concord?

The concord is a Concord Bentley. 5 speed w/derailleur. it is silver and is made in Japan. Just read on sheldon brown that he has never seen a Raleigh sports with a twist grip shifter before... well if he was still alive now would be that time :)

Great catch on the Raleigh.

-Kurt
thanks kurt, now i just need to fix it up .. the rear hub needs oiling up.... anyone know how to clean the frames? soap and water? wax? theres no rust really just old paint

ok so I don't think this is a 1973... maybe a 1972. when I go to retro raleigh the chainguard is a simple hockey stick guard.. this one has the front upper part extending outward.... any ideas?

here's a guy with the same everything and he says 1972
http://oldroads.bostonbiker.org/2009/06/13/1972-raleigh-sports/

thanks kurt, now i just need to fix it up .. the rear hub needs oiling up.... anyone know how to clean the frames? soap and water? wax? theres no rust really just old paint

Go over it with Meguiars Scratch X to bring out the shine. Careful around decals and pinstriping. Follow with a wax.


ok so I don't think this is a 1973... maybe a 1972. when I go to retro raleigh the chainguard is a simple hockey stick guard.. this one has the front upper part extending outward.... any ideas?

First of all, to flipping hell with Retro Raleighs for dating a Raleigh. Probably the biggest source of poo-poo, generalized Raleigh information on the net. It's definitely not a held-over '72 released for '73 - those had hooded Raleigh brake levers like the Raleigh Choppers. Check the hub date, first of all. Since it's a gold S22, it's probably somewhere between 1967 and 1972.

-Kurt

Go over it with Meguiars Scratch X to bring out the shine. Careful around decals and pinstriping. Follow with a wax.



First of all, to flipping hell with Retro Raleighs for dating a Raleigh. Probably the biggest source of poo-poo, generalized Raleigh information on the net. It's definitely not a held-over '72 released for '73 - those had hooded Raleigh brake levers like the Raleigh Choppers. Check the hub date, first of all. Since it's a gold S22, it's probably somewhere between 1967 and 1972.

-Kurt

hub has a "2" on it and a "4" i'm not sure its a scratch or a seven directly next to the 2... i also think the "oldroads" link is better... since the pic is the same! =o)

more pics of the raleigh and also pics of the concord(which I could use help on)

The early '70s hubs are notorious for chromed-over/badly stamped "7s." You have a '72.

It is very pretty - reminds me of my identical '71. I still regret having parted with mine, though it was a poor example. I do wish I could find a nice S22 again, though they never show up in 23".

-Kurt

Both those bikes look very nice. That Sports appears to be just wonderful -- very well maintained (or cleanly stored), it appears to me. We just bought a 1974 Sprite for my wife and I think the bell that's on the Sprite is just like the one on your Sports. Says "Raleigh Industries" on it and is loud enough to require a permit. Did the bottom bracket and headset on the Sprite yesterday. Everything was working fine, but when it came apart, it was obvious that it had not been serviced in a very long time -- almost bone dry. Broke both old cotters even with the press.

We've recently been having discussions on lubing the 3-speed hubs. Some use light weigh engine oil (5-30 or so) and others use ATF. If you overfill it, it will pee all over, including your rims which will make the rear brake even more useless. Only brake pads that I have been able to find that work even ok on the steel rims are the Kool Stop salmons which I got from VO at $22 for 4 (ouch). The cheap Jaguire pads with black rubber and an X cut in them are worthless on the steel rims, in my opinion. Recently got some Cane Creek pads at about $7 for 4 but haven't tested them on steel wheels yet.

edit: there should be brazed fittings on the top tube to tame that run away brake cable. See pics of just about any Sports to see how it works.

Have fun.

The Concord looks to be around an 1979-1982? based on that rear reflector, check the reflectors for numbers. Other than that I have no clue as to what you have. Nice Sports BTW! :thumb:

Aaron :)

I have a a concord freedom 12 road bike' like the ross bikes they are considered a lower end bike . I have covered many miles on mine. I like it better than the motobecane nomade or raleigh triumph 10 speeds that I have. The concord isn't for sale the motobecane and raleigh are on Cl . Bomble37 where in ohio are you?
Roy

You did fantastically, bomble37.

$60 for the Raleigh would have been a good deal here. You did twice as good!

You never see British iron in that good condition for under $250-300 in the SF Bay Area.

Bravo for waiting it out. You got a bike similar to the Nottingham-era Hercules in more than twice the shape.

I have a a concord freedom 12 road bike' like the ross bikes they are considered a lower end bike . I have covered many miles on mine. I like it better than the motobecane nomade or raleigh triumph 10 speeds that I have. The concord isn't for sale the motobecane and raleigh are on Cl . Bomble37 where in ohio are you?
Roy
akron/canton area.. you?

thanks noglider and coreyk, and wahoonc and desconhesido!!

I will try my best to fix theseup then. They wife DOES like the concord better than the free spirit so now i have to sell that and use the money to fix up the Concord AND the Raleigh. Dunno if i'll get what i got into it. fingers crossed