Fifty Plus (50+) - Race Day

Tomorrow is race day - 8 miles, 3500'.
Been training for 2 months - wish me luck.

http://www.lake-placid-area-guide.com/images/Tallwhiteface.jpg

If that diagonal white line is the road then you'll need all the luck you can get -- and a few friendly pushes. ;)

Good luck and let us know how you do. :thumb:

If that diagonal white line is the road then you'll need all the luck you can get -- and a few friendly pushes. ;)

Good luck and let us know how you do. :thumb:

The road is 8 to 9% for 8 miles - no breaks.
Here is the link to the event
http://www.whitefacerace.com/bikeraceinfo.html

That looks on par with Ventoux which is an average of 7.5% for 13 miles.

Only problem you may find is gearing. I used 28/28 all the way up and this may have been my problem. When things got tough I got into the lowest gear and stayed there.

So if you are looking for speed- fit the standard crank with a 42 small sprocket and the 11/21 cassette. Then you won't be tempted to crawl up the mountain in a low gear to make it easy.:innocent:

Good Luck and enjoy the ride.

Best of luck on the ride and be sure to take pictures!

So if you are looking for speed- fit the standard crank with a 42 small sprocket and the 11/21 cassette. Then you won't be tempted to crawl up the mountain in a low gear to make it easy.:innocent:

Good Luck and enjoy the ride.

Thanks - I climbed it a few weeks back for practice and to learn the route mentally - used a 30/25. I have a 27 fitted now. But you are absolutely right - just sitting in that low gear is not a good strategy.
The first 3 miles the grade is about 9% then it backs off to 8%. My plan is to use the 30/27 at the start and move to the 25 after the first strectch, then up around mile 5, after the first switchback I can move to the 23 and then for the final 1/2 mile where it is probably the steepest, back to the 27.
This climb is a real mental challenge.

Best of luck on the ride and be sure to take pictures!

Not this time Bev - this thread has the pics I took over memorial day when I climbed it for practice.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?650288-Climbed-a-high-peak

Not this time Bev - this thread has the pics I took over memorial day when I climbed it for practice.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?650288-Climbed-a-high-peak

Thanks. I must have missed the other post.

This flatlander can't imagine riding grades like that for 8 miles:twitchy: We have short steep climbs and plenty of rollers but nothing like that.....I wonder how long it would take me to walk it:o

So after you're finished how do you get back to the start?

So after you're finished how do you get back to the start?
Several options,
1) Have someone drive up before the race and ride down in the car.
2) Ride the bike down
In either case you must wait until all riders clear the course.
The plan was my wife would drive up before the race and take me down but she got sick yesterday and stayed home. My training buddy may have room in his van to take me down, otherwise I'll have him sag up a jacket for me and I'll ride down.
If you look at my previous post you will see the ride down actually is a pain in the tail.

If you look at my previous post you will see the ride down actually is a pain in the tail.

I was thinking that's probably one of those things that sounds like it's going to be more fun than it really is.

Tomorrow is race day - 8 miles, 3500'.
Been training for 2 months - wish me luck.

http://www.lake-placid-area-guide.com/images/Tallwhiteface.jpg

Good luck to you! Please post a ride report. I love to live vicariously! :)

I was thinking that's probably one of those things that sounds like it's going to be more fun than it really is.

Hah! You can have the same kind of fun by just putting a plastic bag over your head and riding around! :lol:

Race accomplished. That's about the best I can say for it.
I'll know my actual results in a few days but I suspect if you excludethe DNFs (a number of people turned back) and odd unicyclist (I don't get that one) I suspect I came in last. The day was hot & humid (for the northern Adirondacks that's mid 80s). It was preparing for thunderstorms so we had a strong wind in the face. Everyone faced this so no excuses. I started out pretty well but my heart rate was 185 - which is well into Z5, this was higher than I wanted. On memorial day weekend I kept it in Z4 but today I immediately went to Z5 and stayed there for the first half of the ride. After that I finally got it back to Z4 but by then I was hurting. My hips hurt, my weak knee was beginning to hurt and I felt I was in trouble. At that point I made the decision to drop into survival mode and just finish. My speed dropped and I slogged my way through the rest of it. This was harder than the last time I climbed it and I think my time was maybe 5 minutes longer. I was not going to give up but when I got to the top I had nothing left, I was barely able to walk. Luckily my friends wife was there with the van to take us all down as the skies open up with that thunderstorm just as I loaded my bike in the car.

Lesson learned - even at 176 lbs I am way to heavy to even come close in this kind of event. It won't stop me from trying again, but I seriously gotta loose some more weight.

Congrats finishing. It sounds like a tough day.

I may climb slopes all the time in my area but that is a different type of hill. If you reckon you were slow- then I would be a lot slower. I learnt several years ago that doing stupid things like this competitively hurts.

But one thing you can claim from this ride- Tomorow you will look back and it was a fun ride. OK- it may have hurt- it may have taken all your energy and a few bits may ache for a few days but you have done something that a lot of others can't.

So relax a bit- get a recovery ride in and get some sustinance inside you. We may not get pics of you struggling up the hill but The big slice of Pie you have deserved will be just as welcome.

I always forget to say it at the end of a reply but this does definitely deserve a well done. Others may have achieved the ride with ease- or at least in comfort- but to complete the ride when things are not going well takes a lot more effort than a DNF because the knees hurt.




WELL DONE.

Thanks all!
I am not discourage by any stretch. The thing I saw on race day was no other rider seemed to be quite as pudgey as I, at 5'11" & 176 I know I am not fat but I am not thin either. I saw two body shapes, folks that were thin as a rail and those who carried more weight but clearly it was all muscle. So to improve my time I need to get more fit and that is the lesson learned.

The organizers will post pics and I know there will be one of me from about 50 yds from the finish, If they post it I will clip in the link.
BTW - this ride was set up to support brain injury patients of which my riding buddy's sister who while cycling got hit by a car is now one. She is recovering but it is slow.

Any finish in a race like this one is a strong finish. Good job for hanging in there when the going got tough. As for your weight, I am the same height as you and compared to me you are definately skinny.

Are you really going to race up that thing.:D I know you can, good luck.:thumb:

You did well regardless, congratulations

This reminds me of Jonathan Vaughters' guest entry to Rob Mackey's 'The Climb':

The Tourmalet and Hautacam are some of the toughest mountains ever paved. Conquered in a car, they are majestic and beautiful (as long as the engine doesn’t overheat), ridden on a bicycle, they are hell.

Now maybe Rob will tell us he’s doing this precisely because those mountains are hell. You know, the ‘just to see if I can….’ idea. Well, sure, I can try to shave a fully clawed, feral cat, just to see if I can, but the question here is WHY?!

Indeed. Well done.

As best I can tell, you did not finish DFL. That in itself speaks well for you.

cyclinfool,
well done :thumb:

Sounds like something I would like to try but I am so against crowds at times I would never enter something like it.

cyclinfool,
well done :thumb:

Sounds like something I would like to try but I am so against crowds at times I would never enter something like it.
Actually they do a very good job of keeping the riders from bunching up. They start them in waves every 5 min, about 30 riders/ wave and as you can imagine they space out quickly so you are riding mostly by yourself.

Actually they do a very good job of keeping the riders from bunching up. They start them in waves every 5 min, about 30 riders/ wave and as you can imagine they space out quickly so you are riding mostly by yourself.

Not the ride itself but the before and after waiting. I ride solo high 90 percent of the time and when I have ridden with someone it was not too bad. I believe if I was with a "bunch"I could still be alone by focusing on the road ahead.
Thing is once I was there I would more than likely enjoy it, happens more times than not.

So......do you know how long it took you to climb it?

Hi cyclinfool,

Any time that you get to the top of a major climb (especially when you have thoughts of not making it) is a personal victory.

The Z5 stuff during that kind of a race is definitely a big problem since you don't really have an opportunity to recover on a climb. It's better to start slow and finish strong (or as strong as possible). A Z2 to Z3 progression at the start is a better way to go. Short forays into Z4 are OK for the steeper pitches. Stay away from Z5.

Roger Young (former US national champion and current cycling coach) told me that you have just so many heartbeats available to you in a race -- use them wisely. Z5 eats up the available heartbeats too quickly.

Good luck with your training and next race.

CF, I don't get why you think you are last when there are DNF's. Just doing the race is a victory, then finishing it while hurting is even more admirable.

It seems that you have learned some things that you need to do to assure better success the next time. The fact that some thin young fools can strap a bike to their feet then beat the crap out of us old men does not make you less of a rider. Look at the positives and find ways to improve on your weaknesses and race plan. Congratulations on doing something on a bicycle, in front of many, that most people would not attempt in private.:thumb:

CF, I don't get why you think you are last when there are DNF's. Just doing the race is a victory, then finishing it while hurting is even more admirable.

It seems that you have learned some things that you need to do to assure better success the next time. The fact that some thin young fools can strap a bike to their feet then beat the crap out of us old men does not make you less of a rider. Look at the positives and find ways to improve on your weaknesses and race plan. Congratulations on doing something on a bicycle, in front of many, that most people would not attempt in private.:thumb:


Thanks! Well I would to have beaten more than the lone unicyclist up the hill. Yea - I could bask in the glory of beating a few DNFs but that just doesn't seem right to me. In any event I need major humiliation to motivate me to loose some more weight, get to the gym and work on core strength and not slack off over the winter. :lol:


Hi cyclinfool,

Any time that you get to the top of a major climb (especially when you have thoughts of not making it) is a personal victory.

The Z5 stuff during that kind of a race is definitely a big problem since you don't really have an opportunity to recover on a climb. It's better to start slow and finish strong (or as strong as possible). A Z2 to Z3 progression at the start is a better way to go. Short forays into Z4 are OK for the steeper pitches. Stay away from Z5.

Roger Young (former US national champion and current cycling coach) told me that you have just so many heartbeats available to you in a race -- use them wisely. Z5 eats up the available heartbeats too quickly.

Good luck with your training and next race.
Thanks Cleave
Hermes and I went back and forth on HR in another thread, likely I was not in Z5 even though my heart rate was 184, that says my max is probably higher than the 195 I thought it was. ore likely I did the race in Z4 which isn't good either. The problem with that climb is that the steepest bits are the first and last mile where the grade is probably over 9%, every where else it is 8.5% +/- 0.5% so once you get your heart rate elevated at the start there is little if any chance to get it back down with out stopping. I am going to have to another practice run at it and see how I can control my HR better. Maybe in late Aug when I am up that way again.

On 7/10 is the Greylock Century - we climb Greylock (2700' - 9 miles) in the first 25 miles and then 4 more peaks for a total of 10K vertical, not a race but I do want to see if I can log an under 6.5hr saddle time for that, a typical rolling century I can do in under 6hrs but this will be much tougher. Maybe I can drop another 5lbs between now and then, would make it a lot easier.

CF-as you are learning managing exertion at the start is important so you don't peg out too soon. You just have to go a lot easier than you think you're going. We've learned this in our TT's that you just can't completely jump into top Z4 in the first lap without paying for it mightly in the last 1/3 of the event. It has been so hard for me to go that easy the first lap-but I'm still going plenty fast enough.

If you finished starting as fast as you did you did a terrific job. I'm not a climber-I can climb pretty much all day but I just don't have the power to get the top end speed a lot of folks do. There is no way I'd ever enter an event like that as I know that is my biggest shortcoming and would finish at or near the bottom.

Good for you for taking it on!

Hi cyclinfool,

Any time that you get to the top of a major climb (especially when you have thoughts of not making it) is a personal victory.

The Z5 stuff during that kind of a race is definitely a big problem since you don't really have an opportunity to recover on a climb. It's better to start slow and finish strong (or as strong as possible). A Z2 to Z3 progression at the start is a better way to go. Short forays into Z4 are OK for the steeper pitches. Stay away from Z5.

Roger Young (former US national champion and current cycling coach) told me that you have just so many heartbeats available to you in a race -- use them wisely. Z5 eats up the available heartbeats too quickly.

Good luck with your training and next race.


+1

Results are in!
Although I was next to the last guy across the finish line (there wa a unicyclist behind me) because of the way they staggered the starts (I was in the last group) I was unable to really tell my time. To my amazement I was no where near DFL - I had better times than guys (and gals) in most every age group except the under 30 crowd. If you count the DNF's I was about 32 from the bottom. So although not a stellar time it was not as bad as I thought. Now to start the process of improving that time for next year. There were pics posted of the race - and I sure didn't look like a light weight going up that hill, I gotta loose 20lbs before I try to compete like that again.

There is another shot at this race in Sept that benefits the ski race program my daughter is in, if things go well over the summer and there is time I may try it again then, but for sure I'll set my sights on June 2011 and gear up my training program for that event. If I participate in any "race" events this one is low enough key for me.

Thanks for all the words of encouragement.

Happy for you CF! Why not begin the commitment now?

Every chance let go is one that may not be available next time around. I too have battled racing weight and am currently in the low 180's and have to work to stay there. I have gotten to the point where every time I am tempted to eat or drink something I'll ask myself if I really want it. I do eat hamburgers and enjoy them, but not frequently and will ask for an alternative for the fries or chips that come with the plate. After a while "racing decisions" become part of your life from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep and eating is more a "refueling" decision. The trick is to bring racing into life's mix in a balanced way by substituting some of the things that are not good for you or time wasters' while still doing the things necessary to have a career and family.

Results are in!
Although I was next to the last guy across the finish line (there wa a unicyclist behind me) because of the way they staggered the starts (I was in the last group) I was unable to really tell my time. To my amazement I was no where near DFL - I had better times than guys (and gals) in most every age group except the under 30 crowd. If you count the DNF's I was about 32 from the bottom. So although not a stellar time it was not as bad as I thought. Now to start the process of improving that time for next year. There were pics posted of the race - and I sure didn't look like a light weight going up that hill, I gotta loose 20lbs before I try to compete like that again.

There is another shot at this race in Sept that benefits the ski race program my daughter is in, if things go well over the summer and there is time I may try it again then, but for sure I'll set my sights on June 2011 and gear up my training program for that event. If I participate in any "race" events this one is low enough key for me.

Thanks for all the words of encouragement.

Hallelujah. I knew you were not DFL. I have participated in enough events similar to this one that there are some who show up that have minimal training. NOW, you have it all. You registered, started, finished and conquered. Welcome to the club.:thumb:

Happy for you CF! Why not begin the commitment now?

Every chance let go is one that may not be available next time around. I too have battled racing weight and am currently in the low 180's and have to work to stay there. I have gotten to the point where every time I am tempted to eat or drink something I'll ask myself if I really want it. I do eat hamburgers and enjoy them, but not frequently and will ask for an alternative for the fries or chips that come with the plate. After a while "racing decisions" become part of your life from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep and eating is more a "refueling" decision. The trick is to bring racing into life's mix in a balanced way by substituting some of the things that are not good for you or time wasters' while still doing the things necessary to have a career and family.

Oh indeed - I need to be very careful loosing weight as I tend to loose muscle mass. I have a scale at home that measures %body fat, (resistance at both hands and feet) which although not accurate does give me a pretty good trend of where it's going. I did not put the feedbag on after the race - starting the process of driving the weight down. I will go back to Wed PM hill training next week as i prepare for a mountainous century 7/10. I have enough non timed events coming up between now and the end of Sept to keep me in training mode, I just need to maintain that focus over the winter.

Thanks for the encouragement!

With respect to cycling performance, I would not worry about muscle loss too much. We have some very skinny racers in our club who produce tremendous wattage. On the Sierra Road hill climb (Tour of California did this climb) KOM 3.7 miles 10.5% average grade, that we did before the tour, one of our guys did a 20:xx and BF's Pizza Man beat him by 30 second for the win. From our simulator, the power to climb Sierra Road in 20:xx is about 360 watts average power for a 140 pound rider. Now there are many reasons why one does not want to lose muscle mass but it does not seem to affect cycling performance.

Personally, I do not want to be that skinny and I want to keep my muscle so I will not be a great hill climber. However, at 170 pounds, I would have to produce 420 watts to do the climb in 20:xx. So on this climb, without correcting for aerodynamics (same profile), it translates to 2 watts per pound. Today, a 265 watt average power climb would be a great result for me which correlates to a 32:xx climbing time. Most of my Cat 2 /3 buddies are 280 - 300 watt guys.:cry:

So for climbing steep climbs, weight off the body or off the bike is extremely important. It is very hard to produce 350 watts of average power for 20 minutes.

Hermes,

Interesting observations. When I meet with the PT next week I will explain to her my goals and get some suggestions. Of course you are correct, brute strength and sustained power are two different things, goes back to the power vs torque thing, you don't need brute strength to put out a lot of power at high RPM.

I don't want to be that skinny guy either and for what I do in the winter I need some raw leg strength. I also find it uncomfortable to be below 160 lbs - I get cold too easy, and in Northern NY that is not a bonus, I also stop enjoying life because I have to give up too many indulgences.

So I figure I will shoot for a me of around 160lb plus add another ~20 for cloths, water & bike, try to up my watt output by 10% by getting stronger & improving technique and also get rid of some friction in the drive train. If I successfully do all three I should take 20 minutes off my climb time, come in around 1:10:XX and be able to place in the middle of the pack. I would be totally happy with mediocrity (at least for next year) and as an added bonus I should be able to hang with the A group on club rides. You - BTW are probably putting out 30% more than I do.

As far as weight - if I can go back to loosing ~ 1 lb/wk then I think I can keep my strength, that has worked in the past.
As far as technique goes - spin classes seem to help with pedal stroke and maybe the PT who does TRIs will come riding with me to pick out other deficiencies.
As far as friction goes, a few changes to the bike. Not all that expensive as the bike is now 3 years old with close to 10K miles on it - some of that stuff would need replacement anyway (good justification for the spouse).
As far as watts, that PM may be in my future - but man that is expensive. Believe it or not - some times I get pro deals on bike stuff (through some of my various other activities).

So those are the goals I will give the trainer next week - let's she how she converts those into a plan.
BTW - the first place time was 44:53 - almost exactly 1/2 my time. He must be a 300W+ kinda guy. He was from Ottawa in the 30-39 age group.

What was your time and climbing feet per hour? Please post a pic or link.

What was your time and climbing feet per hour? Please post a pic or link.

Results at: http://www.whitefacerace.com/bikeresults.html

What was your time and climbing feet per hour? Please post a pic or link.


Don't want to get too specific as then it would be easy to put an actual name on it.
I would PM you with specifics but you have blocked PMs.
Picture from the race photo album - at the finish
156872