Touring - STI vs. Bar-End Shifters

I started a post looking for advice about building a modern loaded tourer (as many have done before, and many will in the future). I have many questions about components and such, but there was one component that I ‘thought’ I was settled on. The shifters. I have 2 bikes with brifters and am very comfortable with them. I also have had many bikes with down-tube shifters; and, although they do take a bit of a balancing act sometimes to reach down for, I’ve come to enjoy them.

When I first thought to build a modern touring bike, the first picture that came to mind was a bike with barcons. After posting my build thread however, one of the respondents made a very good argument for brake shifters. The part that I could really relate to was that people who use brifters shift more often. I would add that they probably use the front derail more often as well. On a properly fitted bike, I most often ride with my hands on the brake levers. Therefore, it is quit natural to shift frequently.

I’m a bit older and tend to lean towards that which is tried and true. But, I’m not above changing my ways if the evidence warrants. So I ask the question to you modern day road warriors, are brake shifters a better choice for a touring bike over the traditional bar-end shifter?

I have bikes with all three systems, and my favorite is brifters, followed by downtube shifters, followed by bar end shifters....now with a caveat, on my LHT with bar end shifters, the only thing I don't like about them is my knee hits them sometimes climbing and shifts the gears. This could be caused by my riding style, stem length, handlebar width, etc. If I could correct this, which I have not tried to do, it would probably be my favorite shifting system for a touring bike. I like brifters, but mostly just for road cycling. They are too finiky for touring in my opinion.

I am not sure what you mean by brake shifter since you also are using the term brifter. Are you using these terms interchangeably or is the brake shifter something else (like a mountain bike brake and shifter unit)? I assume you will use drop bars, otherwise you would not be talking about brifters.

For a long distance bike you want what works for you and some experimentation does not hurt. If you start with bar end shifters and change to something else, the bar end shifters did not cost much compared to brifters and you can write it off as a failed experiment. It took me a couple years to get the component mix that I finally settled on when I built my first touring bike.

Other options also exist if you buy the bar end shifters and decide against them on the ends of the bars: (1) The bar end shifters can also be used on the ends of some styles of trekking bars if you decide to experiment with your bars, but there can be tubing diameter issues. (2) Some that did not like bar end shifters are quite happy with Paul Thumbies that allow you to use your shifters on the bars. (3) Another less common option to use your bar end shifters is Kelly Takeoffs. (4) I am not sure if the bar end shifters would fit on your down tube bosses and work as down tube shifters, they might but I have never seen anybody use them that way.

If you choose to sell used bar ends shifters, there is a market for them. A friend of mine was quite surprised to see that I was using "tri shifters" on the ends of my handlebars, he does triathalons and he was unaware that they could be used for anything other than triathalon bars and he actually called them tri shifters.

I have a bias to bar ends shifters, I started using them in the 1970s as the only option to have my shifters on the bars at that time. (I do not consider stem mounted shifters from the 1970s to be truly handlebar mounted.) I have only tried brifters once and did not like them, although with only one try I readily admit that I did not give them a fair chance.

I've toured with three systems - downtube shifters in the eighties, bar-end shifters more recently and now STI. I would unhesitatingly recommend STI. Much more convenient, and you do shift more often and therefore spend all your time in the right gear. They probably add fractionally to the weight of the bike, but hey - you're touring.

You are probably correct that you will shift more often with STI but the big question is, does it matter? Shifting often and not shifting so often has more to do with riding style than actual efficiency in my opinion.

Do this experiment: Ride a typical route that you often take, such as to work or the library, and count the number of times you shift, round trip, and record your time. The next time you take that route do the same thing except cut the number of shifts you do in half and see if it makes a significant difference in time or pleasure for the ride.

Also, I would imagine that shifting more often, wether more efficient or not, will cause more wear and tear on the drive system and maybe once of several factors that contribute to STI shifters being, "finicky" on a long tour.

I prefer bar ends when using bars that flare, like nitto randonneurbars. I don't like how brifters mount at an angle, which changes the feel of shifting. I prefer brifters for normal bar styles though. The relatively shallow drop of rando bar styles tends to keep your torso at the same position whether your hands are on the hoods or holding the end of the bar (to shift)

Also, I prefer either over downtubes shifters because I like to maintain contact with my bars while shifting.

I prefer brifters for the convenience and comfort. But I chose barcons for my touring bike since they are more fault tolerant. My only complaint about them is sometimes my knees hit the levers when standing. I think I shift as often with either system.

Preference to brifters. With a crankset that is MTB (22-34-44) and a cassette of 14-25, which means that every ratio is consecutive and that all three chain rings in the front are sollicitated, it is nice to be able to shift at will. Then again, there is the matter of repairability. In over 10000 km I haven't had a failure but, just in case, you could carry a down tube shifter in your bags for an easy fix.

Those are unorthodox choices but it may help to be aware of such.

I prefer combined brake/gear levers, esp on hard descents.
With my current Campagnolo Mirage ergolevers I carry a backup downtube shifter in my spares kit. This is primarily so I can use any Shimano replacement rear mech. Now that I cam converting to Tiagra STI levers Im not sure if I still need to carry this. It may be useful as a friction-mode option but I wont need it for compatibility issues.

If you are transporting your bike in soft bags, like I do, I would suggest bar ends. Less chances of damage I think, and cheaper as well as easier to repair in case they do get damaged.

I have been touring with brifters since 2004, and love them. There are down tube shifters on my old touring bike (bought 25 years ago), and as much as I like the bike, I find that removing a hand from the handlebar to shift is a nuisance. I would hate to go over a big bump or get a blowout with only one hand on the handlebars, but so far, my luck has held!

Just built my Nashie with barcons, and God bless 'em! Crisp, exact shifting every time that you can cycle through multiple gears at once... it's like having downtube shifters up where you can actually reach 'em. My knee does hit the right shifter if I stop too fast or back my frame up between my legs to reach for something (my girlfriend's bike, for instance) but as far as I know I am unable to hit them with my knees while actually on the bike. And my stem's too short, so there you go. Plus there is one moving part in a barcon. So for touring, that's what I'm gonna go with.

(Oh, and I had to go with the barcons because I used a mountain groupset on my bike :) )

Are there issues with using brake shifters with an MTB drivetrain. I am thinking about using a Sugino XD 48/36/25t crank, an 11-32 9spd cassette, with XT RD.

Are there issues with using brake shifters with an MTB drivetrain. I am thinking about using a Sugino XD 48/36/25t crank, an 11-32 9spd cassette, with XT RD.

No issues if you're using Shimano STI with your XT rear mech.

I'm about ready to change out my touring bike from Tiagra brifters to regular aero levers and a set of Dura-Ace 9-speed barcons I have laying around. Regarding the aero levers, I see Tektro and Cane Creek. Anyone have a strong preference wither way?

Love my sti shifters and wouldn't consider bar ends for touring but that's just me. My second choice would be downtube. We all like different stuff for different reasons but a modern sti shifter is far from being the weak link. So many worry about shifters and rolls on crap wheels that aren't going to be reliable and think nothing of it.

I say go with what you like when it comes to this question and enjoy the ride.

Just adding my two cents:

I love bar end shifters... how solidly they shift, how tough the feel and somehow I even enjoy the slightly old-fashioned feel. Further, and perhaps more importantly, I like not having them coupled to my brake lever so that I have more flexibility in terms of how I set things up... and cheaper repairs, if something were to happen. Notably, I prefer linear-pull brakes (aka V-brakes) to cantilevers, and I very much appreciate not having to use Travel Agents because with bar-end shifters I could build my bike with Tektro RL520 levers (they're designed specifically to pull the amount of cable necessary for linear-pull brakes).

-D

I'm about ready to change out my touring bike from Tiagra brifters to regular aero levers and a set of Dura-Ace 9-speed barcons I have laying around. Regarding the aero levers, I see Tektro and Cane Creek. Anyone have a strong preference wither way?

The tektro and cane creek levers are the same. The cane creek levers just have a pattern on the hoods, otherwise they are identical.

When I got my first touring bike I was a bit nervous getting bar end shifters having only used STI. After 5min on the road I had pretty much forgotten about them - easy to use and haven't had any safety issues using them. My girl friend and I rode the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route last year using them without any problems; we were quite often on rough steep ground.

I think rogerstg makes a good point about handlebar selection - we both have nitto randoneer bars on our bikes and these spray the drops out a bit (which I really like). I could see that with a more traditional bar there could be some knee problems with the drops closer to the frame depending on bike setup. I occasionally knock one of them when getting on/off the bike but it is very occasional.

I don't know how long bar end shifters are supposed to last - we have both had rear shifting problems whilst on tour; with mine I think it was the shifters but Nancy's was a wearing rear derailleur. In both instances we could use most of the rear cassette except for one cog (so we wouldn't have stuck in the middle of nowhere if we had STI) but that cog was a gear we used a lot for climbing so it was useful to be able to switch to friction mode.

I rode for decades with downtube shifters. I faced the same choice last year when I was building up a new (actually, 30-year-old) touring bike. I just couldn't stand bar end shifters. For me, dealing with something on the end of my bars was just a destabilizing nuisance. Others obviously love them, and my lbs was annoyed that I would not go with them, but I really love my Campys.

I've gone from DTs to BEs to brifters. I'm not going back to DTs that's for sure.

My choice, by far, are brifters. I like the ability to brake and shift at the same time, such as when slowing down and shifting to a lower gear.

The only caution I would have about brifters on a touring bike is the....finickiness of a brifter. If/when the gearing no longer shifts smoothly, you'll be required to turn the barrel adjuster for better shifting. However, with BEs you can switch to friction mode and adjust later, which is especially good if you are not mechanically inclined.

Brifters do have a "life" and will eventually wear and have more moving parts and thus increased chance of something going wrong. Whereas BEs can last almost forever and have no springs or gizmos inside of 'em. I had a set for 30 years and eventually gave them away (they were 7 speed) to a guy you uses them on a touring bike now.

I helped a friend of mine build a touring bike just last year. She is older (mid 50s) and was debating on brifters and BEs. I gave my opinion of both and pros and cons. She decided on BEs because she did not want the hassle of adjusting shifting should they go out of adjustment, she was worried about them breaking down and she is not that mechanically inclined. She wasn't worried about "speed" when touring and since she would be touring on rural type roads (not the stop and go of more urban areas), the "braking and shifting" advantage of brifters wasn't high on the list.

SO, if you are going to be touring somewhere where help is not readily available AND if you are not that mechanically inclined, AND this bike is not going to be used for commutuing in an urban area*, then I would suggest BEs.

Otherwise, brifters have come a long way since their introduction...oh, when was that? early 90s, me thinks?

*Yes, many people use BEs on commutting bikes, and yes, they can be used without trouble. However, _I_ would prefer brifters and would recommend same for commuting. JMHO.

I'll second the bar top shifters ..... These can be had in friction(from cheap Sunrace to nice Suntour) or STI via Paul Thumbies using Shimano barcons. http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbies.html

The tektro and cane creek levers are the same. The cane creek levers just have a pattern on the hoods, otherwise they are identical.

Thanks. Makes the choice easy, as I can get tektro's for much less cash.

You are probably correct that you will shift more often with STI but the big question is, does it matter? Shifting often and not shifting so often has more to do with riding style than actual efficiency in my opinion.

Do this experiment: Ride a typical route that you often take, such as to work or the library, and count the number of times you shift, round trip, and record your time. The next time you take that route do the same thing except cut the number of shifts you do in half and see if it makes a significant difference in time or pleasure for the ride.



??? Timing your ride won't tell you whether you are burning more calories than needed or damaging your knees from grinding too big a gear. There is a best gear for every situation. Sure, that best gear may be different for different people in the same situation, but for any given person there is a best gear at all times. If you are one or even two away from that best gear and you know it, but there's a change in terrain up ahead 150 feet where you can tell you'll have to change gears, a barcon or downtube user may elect to skip the shift he should make right now, knowing that in a few seconds he'll just have to shift again. I know that has been my practice when using barcons and DTs in the past. Now, I have but to think that I might be more comfortable in the 15 than the 17 and my hands are hard-wired to my brain in such a way that I'm instantly in the 15. Ten seconds later I'll go to the 19 if warranted.

I may not finish the ride faster this way, but I will have spent more time in the correct gear, which either matters or it doesn't. I think it does.

If a person rode on the flat part of the drops all the time, of course, the Barcons would have the same advantage over Brifters that Brifters have over Barcons if you ride on the hoods or the flats. But even in the regular drops, up on the curves where you can grab your brakes, the brifters still have the big advantage of not making you move your hands to shift.

I prefer brifters for the convenience and comfort. But I chose barcons for my touring bike since they are more fault tolerant. My only complaint about them is sometimes my knees hit the levers when standing. I think I shift as often with either system.


If you are transporting your bike in soft bags, like I do, I would suggest bar ends. Less chances of damage I think, and cheaper as well as easier to repair in case they do get damaged.

STI shifters aren't nearly as delicate as all that. No index shifter is really all that delicate. I've been using index shifting since the mid90s and have had one failure. That's over 20+ bikes and 30 to 35 shifters (upgrades:rolleyes:). Shifters just don't go bad that often.

I have STI on my touring bike and on my commuting bike. The commuting bike shifters are the oldest (2003) and most used set of road shifters I own and they are still going strong even with nearly daily year around use. I certainly don't treat them with kid gloves, either.

Cable adjustments are simple and take 30 seconds to fix. If your bike isn't shifting right, you should fix it rather than switch over to friction mode. Most of the issues can even be fixed while riding:rolleyes:

That's over 20+ bikes and 30 to 35 shifters (upgrades:rolleyes:). Shifters just don't go bad that often.:

:eek: over 20 bikes! Over 30 shifters! jeez.....wow.
I have 3 bikes with brifters; Sora (8 sp), 105 (9 sp) and Dura Ace (10 sp). My first pair was in 1998, Shimano 105, 8 speed. I sold them as they stopped working well in cold weather. Seriously! During the summer they worked fine, but during the spring or fall, the rear brifter was a bugger to shift.

Tried cleaning them out, but made no difference. So I replaced them with a set of 2003(ish) 105 9 speed brifters, and have been fine.




Cable adjustments are simple and take 30 seconds to fix. If your bike isn't shifting right, you should fix it rather than switch over to friction mode. Most of the issues can even be fixed while riding:rolleyes:

Some people can't / do not want to learn / couldn't be bothered though.

All depends on priorities.

In short, I feel that the OP would be fine with brifters, but there's always a...but....

:eek: over 20 bikes! Over 30 shifters! jeez.....wow.
I have 3 bikes with brifters; Sora (8 sp), 105 (9 sp) and Dura Ace (10 sp). My first pair was in 1998, Shimano 105, 8 speed. I sold them as they stopped working well in cold weather. Seriously! During the summer they worked fine, but during the spring or fall, the rear brifter was a bugger to shift.

Tried cleaning them out, but made no difference. So I replaced them with a set of 2003(ish) 105 9 speed brifters, and have been fine.

20 bikes including mountain and road. 30 bikes if I include my wife and kids bikes. But over all those shifters (and upgrades:rolleyes:), I've only ever had one fail. The point is that shifters seldom fail.

My commute bike sees regular winter service and has never had any issues.



Some people can't / do not want to learn / couldn't be bothered though.

All depends on priorities.

In short, I feel that the OP would be fine with brifters, but there's always a...but....

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who would rather suffer through crappy shifting then learn how to adjust their bikes...especially if you are going to go riding around on your own carrying your own stuff and being somewhat self-reliant. "Better to light a candle than curse the darkness";)

Someone brought up the point that brifter cables interfere with the mounting of a handlebar bag. This would seem obvious, are there any solutions?

20 bikes including mountain and road. 30 bikes if I include my wife and kids bikes. But over all those shifters (and upgrades:rolleyes:), I've only ever had one fail. The point is that shifters seldom fail.

My commute bike sees regular winter service and has never had any issues.




I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who would rather suffer through crappy shifting then learn how to adjust their bikes...especially if you are going to go riding around on your own carrying your own stuff and being somewhat self-reliant. "Better to light a candle than curse the darkness";)

+1 on all points.

As for STI and bar bags... mentioned by rothenfield1

Noodle or Avid Rollamajig work or like my setup.... 42 bar and Orlieb Medium play well together. Limiting the size the bar bag can be the easiest solution. I can't imagine having or needing more room than the size I use.

I'm currently suffering from a broken front dérailleur. When I finally make it to a bike shop in Kunming, my bar end shifters allow me to use whatever front dérailleur I find. If I had put brifters on my tourer, I'd only be able to use Shimano or SRAM road triple derailleurs. For this reason I would never put brifters on a touring bike.

Cyccommute has never broken any of his 30 sets of brifters because he replaces them so often. :D

I prefer brifters for the convenience and comfort. But I chose barcons for my touring bike since they are more fault tolerant. My only complaint about them is sometimes my knees hit the levers when standing. I think I shift as often with either system.

I use the KISS idea, and thus use barcons. Many told me to use brifters when I was building my expedition grade touring bike by Arvon, but I kept to the barcons. In outback Australia (Boroloola, NT) I met Anthony http://www.ozbybike.com/ who showed me his barcons. Apparently, he had destroyed his brifters while going north on the Cape York penninsula and had to ride in only 1 gear. On his return he had his bike in the same shop that mine was in and the owner showed Anthony my barcons. Anthony got a set, and used those for the rest of the trip including the stretch between Kalgoorlie, WA and Alice Springs, NT - the REAL outback.

I rest my case. YMMV.

STI and I've never looked back.

I use the KISS idea, and thus use barcons. Many told me to use brifters when I was building my expedition grade touring bike by Arvon, but I kept to the barcons. In outback Australia (Boroloola, NT) I met Anthony http://www.ozbybike.com/ who showed me his barcons. Apparently, he had destroyed his brifters while going north on the Cape York penninsula and had to ride in only 1 gear. On his return he had his bike in the same shop that mine was in and the owner showed Anthony my barcons. Anthony got a set, and used those for the rest of the trip including the stretch between Kalgoorlie, WA and Alice Springs, NT - the REAL outback.

I rest my case. YMMV.

Honestly, this is a reasonable post. I can see that being a value that Barcons/DTs have over Brifters. But it assumes a remoteness I've never encountered yet and don't plan on encountering in the near future. So I choose what works best, rather than what I would want if it all fell apart somewhere in the Yukon Territory.

That said, as I posted in the OPs original thread and someone else alluded to here, if I do go to such a place I'll gladly throw a pair of DuraAce DT shifters in the bag -- they can't weigh 100 grams -- and install as needed if a brifter gets screwed up. That way I get to use the easier/quicker/more familiar system indefinitely, and if it fails I have a backup.

In case it matters, my plan for the tourer I'm building up over the next few months is to use these:

http://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.com/2008/08/thorn-accessory-bar-gripshifter.html

to deal with the fact that the Nexus-8 has a twist shifter.

Yes, there is such as thing as shifting too often. Also, friction shifting should not be something to be afraid of or used as a "last resort." I very much prefer friction shifting to indexing. Its really not that hard it just takes a little longer to learn than indexing. By a little longer I mean about two or three riding days. Thats it. Then its just as natural and easy as anything else. Rather than saying people who use index shifting are lazy or stupid for not wanting to learn to maintain their obviously superior index systems, why don't people take a little time to learn how to friction shift properly?

From Rivindel: "Modern shifters are built right into the brake levers, and are sold on their convenience. Folks who like them often say, "Now I shift so much more often!" Well, people sitting on couches and holding remote controls change channels more often, too. Often-ness isn't the goal. Convenience can take over, it can be distracting, and it can make you lazy. Absolutely, you should shift as often as you like and whenever it feels right, but there is satisfaction in grunting just a little to crest a hill, and there's refreshment to be found in pedaling both slower and faster than the textbook optimal range of 95 to 100 rpms. For a lonely rider on a homely road, there's a case to be made for grunting five-percent harder or spinning four-percent faster to get past the harder or easier part. It's a more natural way to ride. Today's interest in single-speed riding is a backlash against more gears and ever-increasing pressure to shift at the slightest provocation. These riders find it liberating to not even have the option to shift. If you need a role model, there's Lon Haldeman. Lon has won RAAM a few times and continues to ride 15,000 miles or so a year by himself and with his PacTour groups, and rides a derailleurless bike with a single chainring and three cogs in back. He rides it everywhere, over all terrain. And there are thousands of others out there who, like Lon, have figured out that constant shifting isn't all it's cracked up to be. Bar-end shifters are plenty convenient, but just not too."

i'd love to try bar end shifters but i refuse to give up my bar-end mirror. I've toured with both STIs and (currently) downtube shifters, and love both for different reasons.

On the topic of STI durability, last season i toured, commuted and raced cyclocross on the same bike (surly cc) with Shimano Tiagra STI levers. I crashed 10-12 times, at least 3 of which were hard, and didn't break anything FWIW

I have road bikes with STI, bar-end and down-tube shifters. I tried bar-ends for the first time last year when I bought a new touring frame for my commuter bike. I didn't want to spend what it would cost for STIs, but wanted something more convenient than DT shifters, so opted for bar-ends. I am glad that I gave them a try. They took a little getting used to, but now I really like the bar-end shifters and plan to put them on any new bikes -- or if my STIs quit working at some point.

In addition to the relatively low cost, bar-ends are more durable and reliable than STIs. When Shimano STIs break, they generally cannot be repaired or it's not worth the effort. In my experience, STIs also can quit working with very little advance warning. In contrast, in the unlikely event that your bar-ends quit working, you should be able to get them repaired at any bike shop or fix them yourself if you are mechanically inclined. Shimano bar-ends also can be used in either friction or index mode.

I'd like to know why Shimano makes their bar end shifters with a single side support compared to the older Suntour where the lever is inbetween two solid mounting tangs. Dropped my LHT one day and the shifter mount that goes into the bar was bent. I've got the same 20yr old Suntour that's floated between a few bikes and it's now mounted on the right bar of a CrossCheck with the front shifter on the down tube. Can't argue that brifters make for faster shifts which is great for racing but come on, this is touring. I just don't see a pack of tourers flying around a criterium course and click shifting to beat the guy with the gray panniers sprinting for the prime.

Yes, there is such as thing as shifting too often. Also, friction shifting should not be something to be afraid of or used as a "last resort." I very much prefer friction shifting to indexing. Its really not that hard it just takes a little longer to learn than indexing. By a little longer I mean about two or three riding days. Thats it. Then its just as natural and easy as anything else. Rather than saying people who use index shifting are lazy or stupid for not wanting to learn to maintain their obviously superior index systems, why don't people take a little time to learn how to friction shift properly?

From Rivindel: <Snip a whole bunch of retrogrouchiness>

Shifting too often?:wtf: Is there a limited supply of shifts and if we shift too often we'll use them up? Will an international cartel develop around the limited number of shifts left and drive up the price? Should we limit our shifts to only 1 per hour or 1 per day or 1 per week? :rolleyes:

If you don't want to shift...or you feel that you are superior because you ride around the world in a single gear...that's fine for you. We have gears on our bikes to reduce the effort required to climb hills or to increase our speed when we what to put more effort into riding. It's the rider's choice. If I shift my gears 10 times a minute it hurts nothing and costs nothing. Shifts are limited only by the rider desires.

As for friction, I've been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt. I don't need to go back nor will I. If you want to deal with the clatter and clunk of friction shifting, feel free. But if you have a bike that isn't working properly, i.e. you can't get it to shift right, fix it! Changing over to friction mode is the bicycle equivalent of turning up the radio:rolleyes: Lots of people poopoo index...and STI, in particular...as being too futzy to fix on the road. It takes a minimum of effort and time to make the bike work properly. Rather than "take a little time to learn how to friction shift properly" which even you say takes two or 3 riding days to figure out, why not just take 30 seconds and make the shifters work properly. If I recall 30 seconds is a lot less than 3 days:rolleyes:

Someone brought up the point that brifter cables interfere with the mounting of a handlebar bag. This would seem obvious, are there any solutions?

There seems to be quite a bit of paranoia on this topic. I bought a Lone Peak H-100 (http://www.thetouringstore.com/LONE%20PEAK/LP%20H-bar%20Packs/H100%20H-BAR%20PACK%20PAGE.htm) handlebar bag and installed it on my STI-equipped touring bike without the slightest problem. My cables were a bit long and I just pushed them out of the way. My handlebar was a 42cm 3T Ergosum Pro, FWIW. Suspect that the replacement 40cm bar will work just as well, but have to admit that I haven't tried to reinstall the bag yet.

From Rivindel: "Modern shifters are built right into the brake levers, and are sold on their convenience. Folks who like them often say, "Now I shift so much more often!" Well, people sitting on couches and holding remote controls change channels more often, too. Often-ness isn't the goal. Convenience can take over, it can be distracting, and it can make you lazy. Absolutely, you should shift as often as you like and whenever it feels right, but there is satisfaction in grunting just a little to crest a hill, and there's refreshment to be found in pedaling both slower and faster than the textbook optimal range of 95 to 100 rpms. For a lonely rider on a homely road, there's a case to be made for grunting five-percent harder or spinning four-percent faster to get past the harder or easier part. It's a more natural way to ride. Today's interest in single-speed riding is a backlash against more gears and ever-increasing pressure to shift at the slightest provocation. These riders find it liberating to not even have the option to shift. If you need a role model, there's Lon Haldeman. Lon has won RAAM a few times and continues to ride 15,000 miles or so a year by himself and with his PacTour groups, and rides a derailleurless bike with a single chainring and three cogs in back. He rides it everywhere, over all terrain. And there are thousands of others out there who, like Lon, have figured out that constant shifting isn't all it's cracked up to be. Bar-end shifters are plenty convenient, but just not too."

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess it's more virtuous, somehow, to use only landlines to make telephone calls. Sure, it's less convenient, but you can manage and there's a certain satisfaction in finally finding a callbox that hasn't been vandalised. Worth the effort.

BS from start to finish. I have a fixed-gear bike. It has absolutely nothing to do with a "backlash" against geared bikes, and certainly nothing to do with some entirely imaginary "pressure to shift at the slightest provocation." Who makes this stuff up? The present fixie craze is in part a fashion thing, in part a renewed recognition of the cheapness, practicality and low-maintenance qualities of those bikes, and in part a desire for a different sort of experience and a different sort of workout.

As for Lon Haldeman, fine cyclist and great man, I'm sure. But his preference for three cogs does not make him a role model for technophobes everywhere.

People are free to make their choice. But to suggest that STI shifters are undesirable because they make you shift too often is absurd. They don't come with a self-hypnosis "you must shift every minute whether you need to or not" feature. They just work when you want them to. Oh, and I can friction-shift too; it just isn't as efficient.

Yes, there is such as thing as shifting too often.

Bullsh*t! If you want to shift, then shift. If you don't want to shift, then don't. If you're using shifters so crappy that they're going to fall apart because you executed a few extra shifts on a ride, then upgrade!

Bullsh*t! If you want to shift, then shift. If you don't want to shift, then don't. If you're using shifters so crappy that they're going to fall apart because you executed a few extra shifts on a ride, then upgrade!

How do you really feel?:innocent::D:thumb:

In case it matters, my plan for the tourer I'm building up over the next few months is to use these:

http://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.com/2008/08/thorn-accessory-bar-gripshifter.html

to deal with the fact that the Nexus-8 has a twist shifter.

Neat solution! I was going to do something similar as my brifter cables would not allow a handlebar bag to be mounted. I was going to use a second stem and a short piece of handlebar to mount the front bag.

However, I discovered this, below. The rack mounts to the brake bosses and to the fork crown. I then attached my handlebar bag to that. It is a little lower, than mounting it on the handlebar, BUT an advantage is that the weight being lower doesn't affect steering as much.

http://www.axiomgear.com/img/prod/front-platform-support-1-preview.jpg

Whoa there now guys, take it easy.

We all have differant experiences and opinions (if they disagree with mine then, of course, they are wrong). :D

I can't agree with brifters "making you shift too much". True, that the...finesse or methodology of shifting will be differant between BEs and brifters but I do not find a difference in the need to shift more or less when using one or the other.

Brifters have come a long way since their introduction BUT they do require knowledge on how to adjust and properly install a cable :o I ruined a brifter once, many years ago, when I did not properly set the brifter to the "high" gear setting. When I installed the cable, and start to shift, I ruined the guts of 'er. A $200 lesson.

Brifters would, IMHO, would be more for "performance" riding than doodling along on a touring bike.
Brifters are great for:
- standing & shifting (can't do that with BEs or DTs, at least I never could, always had to sit)
- braking and shifting
- ability to brake and/or shift from 2 differant bar positions, hoods and drops without moving your hands

BEs are more robust, less prone to give troubles, do not have a "life" like brifters do. Could we consider brifters a "disposal" item I wonder? BEs would be better if you are not so mechanically inclined. Not having sympathy for someone who cannot fix such a thing is...debatable but would depend on the exact problem occuring. Not having any knowledge of how to fix a flat, there is no excuse for a touring cyclist.

I have brifters on my touring bike and wouldn't go back to BEs, unless I was riding the middle of Africa, THERE I would use BEs....or maybe a single speed....:twitchy:*

*Not that there is anything wrong with a fixie or SS, I love you guys all to death. I'm lazy and like gears.

All I was trying to get at is that friction shifting is not inferior to indexing. Maybe from a purely performance stand point but some people, like myself, prefer friction to indexing. To make a generalized statement like, "anyone riding a bike with BEs and in friction mode is just lazy or does not know how to adjust their detailer" is a bit silly. For my style or riding and my priorities friction shifting and bar ends are the way to go. Remember that indexing has only been around since 1985. Oh whatever did those poor fools do before then an manage to ride bicycles?

All I was trying to get at is that friction shifting is not inferior to indexing. Maybe from a purely performance stand point but some people, like myself, prefer friction to indexing. To make a generalized statement like, "anyone riding a bike with BEs and in friction mode is just lazy or does not know how to adjust their detailer" is a bit silly. For my style or riding and my priorities friction shifting and bar ends are the way to go. Remember that indexing has only been around since 1985. Oh whatever did those poor fools do before then an manage to ride bicycles?

Absolutely, you can certainly do what you want. I was a friction user as well, before indexing.

Will I go back to friction?
No.

Do I disagree with those that like friction over indexing?
Well...yes.

Would I whisper about your oddity? Call you silly? Stupid? Try and convince you to switch? etc.
If you like it....use it, ain't no concern to me. I would ask why you like it better, just for my own edgamacation.

In the number of years that I used BEs I never switched to friction, that I recall. I would just stop and adjust the barrell adjuster and be on my way.

The OP just wanted to know what would be peoples opinions on both. People have opinions and gave 'em. So the OP can take from that any priorities that match his/hers and ignore the rest.

-------

Even if someone was totally off base, I see no reason to slam that person for your own (not you zeppinger) power trip or ego.

Friendly teasing, of course, is differant. ;)

Changing over to friction mode is the bicycle equivalent of turning up the radio:rolleyes:

:roflmao2:

THAT was funny! and not far off the mark either!

But when someone is tired, wet, cold, grumpy, etc. and the shifting starts to go because the brifter is gunked up, or the cables stretched, or the RD is sticking for whatever reason, or the limit screw is somehow out of adjustment, then switching to friction, rather than having to stop in the wind, rain and cold and fuss with the indexing is a bonus.

Yes, very experienced people can fix the shifting on the fly, using the barrel adjuster on the downtube.

All I was trying to get at is that friction shifting is not inferior to indexing. Maybe from a purely performance stand point but some people, like myself, prefer friction to indexing. To make a generalized statement like, "anyone riding a bike with BEs and in friction mode is just lazy or does not know how to adjust their detailer" is a bit silly. For my style or riding and my priorities friction shifting and bar ends are the way to go. Remember that indexing has only been around since 1985. Oh whatever did those poor fools do before then an manage to ride bicycles?

The point everyone makes about barend shifters is that they are more robust and they have the ability to go to friction mode if you index shifting isn't working. My point is that they aren't more robust...the failure rate of all shifters is extremely low...and if you need to bail out to friction mode because you index shifting is a little off, you should learn how to fix the problem. Fixing index shifting is so simple as to be trivial. If the problem is cable related, you usually have plenty of warning...balky shifting or excess noise...so there's no real excuse not to fix it.

I love DT shifters for touring. It's easily the simplest system. No worries about gunky cable housing, no worries about damaging them in a crash, they're cheap, they're easy to install, they can index and friction shift, etc.

Brifters are fine too. I wouldn't hesitate to use them if SRAM made a 9-speed version.