Advocacy & Safety - iPhone OS 4.0 is out, and no cycling directions in the Maps application!

Google has had this capability for how long now, and Apple bases their Maps application on Google maps. Yet no bicycle maps in this revision. I am a big Apple fan, but this clear omission screams that they don't care about those of us who rely on our bicycle for transportation.

:mad:

I don't think they meant to slight cyclists. Software development tends to be a grab bag; lots of people will request new features, and teams at Apple ( and elsewhere ) will pick several of them that they can implement and test before the next release. Especially with the new toy they released, they probably haven't decided that it was the best use of their resources to write that feature.

I don't think they meant to slight cyclists. Software development tends to be a grab bag; lots of people will request new features, and teams at Apple ( and elsewhere ) will pick several of them that they can implement and test before the next release. Especially with the new toy they released, they probably haven't decided that it was the best use of their resources to write that feature.

Like the teams at Google, who included bike directions on their app on the Android, for example?

I used to work in software; I know all about prioritizing feature improvements. That they did not prioritize this one shows that they think it is unimportant, even when their competitors are including such improvements.

Does that mean that Apple is part of the Great Motorist Conspiracy Against Cyclists™?

-Kurt

Does that mean that Apple is part of the Great Motorist Conspiracy Against Cyclists™?

-Kurt

Maybe! But for the sake of my stock, I hope not!

Like the teams at Google, who included bike directions on their app on the Android, for example?

Um ... the fact that a web page has this for free, and their device lets you view that web page, probably knocked it down a peg or two in terms of priority. Try to remember that the teams at Google work at Google, but the iPhone is made by Apple, which is a different company. :D What I'm saying is Apple didn't make bike maps because they want to make money, not because they want to alienate cyclists.

Can you save the Google directions you like, maybe as a kml file, and import them into your iPhone as any other route?

Google has had this capability for how long now, and Apple bases their Maps application on Google maps. Yet no bicycle maps in this revision. I am a big Apple fan, but this clear omission screams that they don't care about those of us who rely on our bicycle for transportation.

:mad:

Kinda curious, what percentage of "us who rely on our bicycle for transportation" would have the slightest problem doing just that if they never, ever gain access to bicycling info or Google Maps on their cell phone?

Sorry, no crocodile tears from me for this "problem."

Um ... the fact that a web page has this for free, and their device lets you view that web page, probably knocked it down a peg or two in terms of priority. Try to remember that the teams at Google work at Google, but the iPhone is made by Apple, which is a different company. :D What I'm saying is Apple didn't make bike maps because they want to make money, not because they want to alienate cyclists.

Can you save the Google directions you like, maybe as a kml file, and import them into your iPhone as any other route?

Yes, you can use the web access to reach google maps, but usability goes way down.

I pointed out Google's inclusion of this feature on the Android platform to show that Apple's competitors are implementing such features, which would lead one to believe that it incentivizes the same from Apple.

Apple would retain people like me by including this feature, thus making money. Whether there is a large enough market in people like me is debatable, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't give me an incentive to change platforms.

Kinda curious, what percentage of "us who rely on our bicycle for transportation" would have the slightest problem doing just that if they never, ever gain access to bicycling info or Google Maps on their cell phone?

Sorry, no crocodile tears from me for this "problem."

What's your point, JA? I navigated just fine without such a feature, and will continue to navigate just fine even though they didn't make this improvement. It's something I, and many other iPhone users and bike commuters would like to see on the iPhone. Google felt it was valuable enough to add to google maps and to the Android. I would have thought Apple would have recognized the value as well.

I would have thought Apple would have recognized the value as well.
Apparently you thought wrong.

Maybe Apple did recognize the actual value of this "feature" for people "who rely on their bicycle for transportation" and/or Apple's bottom line and decided it had insignificant value added for both at this time.

Apparently you thought wrong.

Maybe Apple did recognize the actual value of this "feature" for people "who rely on their bicycle for transportation" and/or Apple's bottom line and decided it was worthless for both at this time.

So Google has limited business acumen for doing the same, huh?

Is there some reason you keep quoting "who rely on their bicycle for transportation?"

Is there some reason you keep quoting "who rely on their bicycle for transportation?"
It is your construct ain't it?, Doncha like it anymore?
I'm curious as to which slice of the bicycling population you think both rely on their bikes for transportation (like you claim about yourself) and would have much practical use for such a feature.

It is your construct ain't it?, Doncha like it anymore?
I'm curious as to which slice of the bicycling population you think both rely on their bikes for transportation (like you claim about yourself) and would have much practical use for such a feature.

Construct? It's merely something I said.

Fine, you can feel free to expand the population to those who use their bicycles as one of many forms of transportation. Is that better?

I really don't understand why you feel the need to constantly be an a$$hole around here. You come into pretty much every thread populated by people that choose to live a different lifestyle than you and pick fights with them. I wish Apple would not put me in a position where I consider changing to a different platform. If that's not something that you care about, which you clearly don't, why come into a thread like this and try to pick a fight with me? What did I ever do to you?

You come into pretty much every thread populated by people that choose to live a different lifestyle than you and pick fights with them.
Really? What kind of "different lifestyle" might that be? Is it a lifestyle that includes relying on an Apple IPhone to guide a "lifestyle" pioneer through the urban wilderness on his bicycle.

Your OP would have been amusing as the nerdish whining of an Apple Fan Boy for a new gadget, but you chose to associate it with some sort of imaginary bicycling "lifestyle" requirement.

Really? What kind of "different lifestyle" might that be? Is it a lifestyle that includes relying on an Apple IPhone to guide a "lifestyle" pioneer through the urban wilderness on his bicycle.

Your OP would have been amusing as the nerdish whining of an Apple Fan Boy for a new gadget, but you chose to associate it with some sort of imaginary bicycling "lifestyle" requirement.

Why can't you answer the question? Why do you go into all of these threads and try to pick fights?

The different lifestyle is one where I do not use the standard mode of transportation that the vast majority of the population here uses. I never claimed to be a "lifestyle" pioneer, and I never claimed an "imaginary bicycling 'lifestyle' requirement."

I merely said I would like to have bicycling directions on the iPhone!

Just because someone says they use a bicycle for transportation does not mean that they are proselytizing or self-righteous, yet you seem to generalize that upon anyone and everyone here that does not own a car. Your constant sarcasm and mocking serve as nothing but trolling and flamebait, and provide no contribution to any discussion.

You target people like me, who don't even fall into the category of the group of evangelists that you strangely, seemingly loathe. Again I ask; what did I do to you? What is your f'ing problem?

IMO, Google's bicycle directions are terrible in Denver. I'd much rather carry the local bike map with me.

Also, nothing beats knowing the streets in your area. Which might be the point ILTB is getting at. I know the routes way better than Google does.

Only thing Google maps is really useful for is the public transit directions. Helps to have the schedules all programmed into it.

My Nexus One has had it for a while now. :D And yes, I have used it. L.A.'s a huge town, knowing the best way to get somewhere is easier with the map app.

You target people like me, who don't even fall into the category of the group of evangelists that you strangely, seemingly loathe. Again I ask; what did I do to you? What is your f'ing problem?

You posted a whiny rant about an insignificant problem for any cyclist; it was duly noted; get over it. I suggest you seek help for a low threshold for persecution problem. This advice is free and worth every penny of it.

Also, nothing beats knowing the streets in your area. Which might be the point ILTB is getting at. I know the routes way better than Google does.
Exactly. Especially good advice for anyone who relies on his bicycle, rather than his phone, for transportation.

You posted a whiny rant about an insignificant problem for any cyclist; it was duly noted; get over it. I suggest you seek help for a low threshold for persecution problem. This advice is free and worth every penny of it.

But what do you get out of being snarky and cranky all the time? It seems like you consider it your mission to save the world from cyclists you find annoying, and to do so in the most irritating way possible. Jeez man, get over it, move on, don't let it get to you so much.

Even when you're right it's like you try to be as disagreeable as possible.

Google has had this capability for how long now, and Apple bases their Maps application on Google maps. Yet no bicycle maps in this revision. I am a big Apple fan, but this clear omission screams that they don't care about those of us who rely on our bicycle for transportation.

:mad:

Yeah but you can get walking directions. How different would be directions for walking be from cycling? It would avoid any interstates or toll ways. I suppose the only downside would be the projected time it takes to get to your destination, but then if you just look at the distance that is easy enough to guess. Just be glad you have an iphone and can get gps directions from the palm of your hand.

Google's walking and cycling directions both suck (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Overland+Dr&daddr=43.730813,-79.351732&hl=en&geocode=FVdGmwIdNC5F-w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=18&dirflg=w&sll=43.730701,-79.351791&sspn=0.002686,0.004796&ie=UTF8&ll=43.730813,-79.3517&spn=0.002702,0.004796&t=h&z=18).

Just sayin'..

Construct? It's merely something I said.

Fine, you can feel free to expand the population to those who use their bicycles as one of many forms of transportation. Is that better?

I really don't understand why you feel the need to constantly be an a$$hole around here. You come into pretty much every thread populated by people that choose to live a different lifestyle than you and pick fights with them. I wish Apple would not put me in a position where I consider changing to a different platform. If that's not something that you care about, which you clearly don't, why come into a thread like this and try to pick a fight with me? What did I ever do to you?

ILTB is a bit of a technological luddite and a curmudgeon... He has ridden a bike for transportation in a variety of locations including Germany, and he has a regular route for which he has customized a bike to fit his commute... he does indeed "rely on a bike for transportation."

But ILTB fails to jump on the bandwagon of what may be "the lastest fad" whether it really does benefit cyclists or not, and at times ILTB has a hard time envisioning that cycling in a dynamic modern city for dynamic young people may entail such things beyond riding the same old route daily.

ILTB does serve to ground us sometimes in fits of taking a look at reality, but his overall style is that of the old man saying "eh, done that sonny... whatcha think, you invented it?"

He probably still uses the same old map that he drew with an old Bic pen to reach the destinations that are important to him... and out in Iowa, things tend to move at a pace where that works just fine.

Me, I still ride and prefer the bike I built back in '84... so I ain't no hipster either. On the other hand, I did just put on a brand new saddle... whoo hoo! Oh, and I use a Blackberry... Not being a big fan of the AT&T network... And bike maps... well goggle does have an app for Blackberry... and any street that gets me there, will do just fine, at least until real "tricorders" are invented. GRIN

ILTB is a bit of a technological luddite and a curmudgeon...

I think the word you're looking for is misanthrope.

... but that doesn't mean that it doesn't give me an incentive to change platforms.

I like my Garmin. If you're thinking about buying a different GPS, give some thought to getting a dedicated one. What that will let you do ( for cycling purposes ) over a cell phone, is to use a heart rate monitor and cadence sensor. It will also be ruggadized and waterproof. I don't know where you live, but I spent several hours riding in the rain on Sunday, and would be pretty uncomfortable doing that with a phone mounted to the handlebars. ( Or to the hull of my kayak. )

If you really want routing capability, you might be better off to use your phone as a phone ( and a mobile browser ) but also to get a GPS. It's expensive, but in the long run, it's going to cost a lot less than buying a new phone and contract every time somebody puts a new feature out.

I check the maps on my GPS when I get myself lost, too ... or on long stretches of road where every block looks the same, and I need some perspective.

I think its important to not develop a dependency on Google maps and its directions. Yes, they're very useful, especially if you're in an area that's unknown to you, but there are mistakes.

Google also doesn't always give the best bicycle directions. Last I tried to map a route from my home to my mom's home, it had me riding all the way down alleys.

You posted a whiny rant about an insignificant problem for any cyclist; it was duly noted; get over it. I suggest you seek help for a low threshold for persecution problem. This advice is free and worth every penny of it.

You really are a loathsome individual.

Yeah but you can get walking directions. How different would be directions for walking be from cycling? It would avoid any interstates or toll ways. I suppose the only downside would be the projected time it takes to get to your destination, but then if you just look at the distance that is easy enough to guess. Just be glad you have an iphone and can get gps directions from the palm of your hand.

I do use the walking directions. Problem is that they route you wrong way on one way streets consistently, which is a big problem where I live, since the vast majority of the grid is one way.

I like my Garmin. If you're thinking about buying a different GPS, give some thought to getting a dedicated one. What that will let you do ( for cycling purposes ) over a cell phone, is to use a heart rate monitor and cadence sensor. It will also be ruggadized and waterproof. I don't know where you live, but I spent several hours riding in the rain on Sunday, and would be pretty uncomfortable doing that with a phone mounted to the handlebars. ( Or to the hull of my kayak. )

If you really want routing capability, you might be better off to use your phone as a phone ( and a mobile browser ) but also to get a GPS. It's expensive, but in the long run, it's going to cost a lot less than buying a new phone and contract every time somebody puts a new feature out.

I check the maps on my GPS when I get myself lost, too ... or on long stretches of road where every block looks the same, and I need some perspective.

I have thought about buying a dedicated GPS for the bike, but that would be primarily for the road bike, like you use it for, and not for the daily commuter.

If I'm headed somewhere unfamiliar on the commuter, I often pull out the iPhone and get a quick set of directions. I rely on the driving directions now, which work 99% of the time. As google collects better data for agreeable bike routes, it would be nice to see those routes on the iPhone. I'm sure it'll get there eventually.

ILTB is a bit of a technological luddite and a curmudgeon... He has ridden a bike for transportation in a variety of locations including Germany, and he has a regular route for which he has customized a bike to fit his commute... he does indeed "rely on a bike for transportation."

But ILTB fails to jump on the bandwagon of what may be "the lastest fad" whether it really does benefit cyclists or not, and at times ILTB has a hard time envisioning that cycling in a dynamic modern city for dynamic young people may entail such things beyond riding the same old route daily.

ILTB does serve to ground us sometimes in fits of taking a look at reality, but his overall style is that of the old man saying "eh, done that sonny... whatcha think, you invented it?"

He probably still uses the same old map that he drew with an old Bic pen to reach the destinations that are important to him... and out in Iowa, things tend to move at a pace where that works just fine.

You have been doing your homework, Gene.

This thread among many on BF demonstrates the inability of some rather insecure individuals to handle any questioning of their Cycling Good Idea. Anything less than an electronic high five response to the Good Idea gets their panties all bunched up; criticism or skepticism elicits the spouting of personal insults from offended hypocrites and BF Snipers.

Map for commuting? Whatz dat? How many people get lost on their way to/from work?

You have been doing your homework, Gene.

This thread among many on BF demonstrates the inability of some rather insecure individuals to handle any questioning of their Cycling Good Idea. Anything less than an electronic high five response to the Good Idea gets their panties all bunched up; criticism or skepticism elicits the spouting of personal insults from offended hypocrites and BF Snipers.

Map for commuting? Whatz dat? How many people get lost on their way to/from work?

There's some irony for you. Snipes and personal insults. That's all you seem capable of.

I didn't have a good idea. Google had a good idea. They wouldn't have implemented it if they didn't think it would be found to be useful. Of course, you'll just ignore this because you have no response to it. You just pick and choose, pulling things out of context, and ignore everything else in people's posts that doesn't suit your mocking. But that's just what trolls do, isn't it, JA?

They wouldn't have implemented it if they didn't think it would be found to be useful.
Correction, they wouldn't have implemented it if they didn't think it would make them money.

Perhaps, the reason its not on the iPhone is because the developers of the google maps application felt that the amount of time spent on adding the capability wouldn't net the return they'd want.

Or maybe, they're working on it, and they just haven't worked enough of the bugs out for it to appear on this update to the iPhone.

Or maybe, Apple thought that they already had iPhone users by the balls, so implementing one new feature in a maps application created by a competitor wouldn't be worth it.

Alternatively, it could just be one big conspiracy against cyclists.

Correction, they wouldn't have implemented it if they didn't think it would make them money.

Perhaps, the reason its not on the iPhone is because the developers of the google maps application felt that the amount of time spent on adding the capability wouldn't net the return they'd want.

Or maybe, they're working on it, and they just haven't worked enough of the bugs out for it to appear on this update to the iPhone.

Yes, being useful translates to making them money.

I would frankly be surprised if they didn't eventually include it. They eventually included transit directions after google added that capability.

I would also be surprised if they didn't include it eventually because it will not be a technically challenging change to make. Increases the yield/investment ratio.

I don't care for the bike directions (they direct me on to sidewalks and out of the way routes too often), but the display of off-road paths on Google Maps does encourage me to try some different routes that I didn't know existed.

I use an HTC Hero Android phone. I have a dash mount for GPS navigation while driving but it stays in a zip lock bag in my pocket when I bike. Who here mounts their phone to their handlebars for navigation? I'm too scared of breaking it after running over a pothole.

Who here mounts their phone to their handlebars for navigation? I'm too scared of breaking it after running over a pothole.

Not a phone ( I have a dumb phone ), but I mount my Garmin Oregon to my handlebars. And it's not for navigation purposes, but mainly so I can see my heart rate next to my speed and trip odometer. The mount is made for the type of GPS I have ( pic, not in use (http://forrestcroce.com/Images/Bike/DSC00682.jpg) ) and has been pretty snug; I can go down stairs without losing it, or even losing its position no the bars.

If I were going to use a Blackberry or iPhone for this, I'd want a Pelican case for them. They make smallish, clear ones. You can't touch the screen through them, but they'll protect against rain, and against shock to a lesser extent.

It's really nice to have the computer make maps and 3D images of your ride, plus elevation plots, when you get back. :D

I don't care for the bike directions (they direct me on to sidewalks and out of the way routes too often), but the display of off-road paths on Google Maps does encourage me to try some different routes that I didn't know existed.

I use an HTC Hero Android phone. I have a dash mount for GPS navigation while driving but it stays in a zip lock bag in my pocket when I bike. Who here mounts their phone to their handlebars for navigation? I'm too scared of breaking it after running over a pothole.

While I wouldn't mount a phone to my handle bars, I do on occasion rely on the GPS and mapping features of my phone. Sometimes plans change mid route, sometimes I think I know where I am going, but I don't. Other times (and this is actually quite fun...) I take off in a particular direction to simply explore... When doing that, I check out neighborhoods, check out housing and just look to see if I can find a route that maybe I had not considered before. While just exploring, I have at times found myself in the middle of nowhere... (actually somewhere, but I don't know where). In that case GPS and mapping features can tell me what I am near, or what alternatives I have to get home, other than back the way I came. These GPS and mapping features are quite handy in that regard... especially when exploring parts of town I don't frequent, or areas that have been redeveloped since I was last there.

I simply stop and use the GPS and map features, come up with a possible route and then carry on. My phone even does Google street view, so I can get a pretty good idea of what I am likely to encounter or where I might want to go. I think this is darn handy and I can see how having apps that readily address cycling are a good thing.

The last thing I want however is a handy cell phone that I might be tempted to answer while still rolling. I'll just stop and look/talk... thanks, that works for me.

Google's walking and cycling directions both suck (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Overland+Dr&daddr=43.730813,-79.351732&hl=en&geocode=FVdGmwIdNC5F-w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=18&dirflg=w&sll=43.730701,-79.351791&sspn=0.002686,0.004796&ie=UTF8&ll=43.730813,-79.3517&spn=0.002702,0.004796&t=h&z=18).

Just sayin'..

tr00f. Man, that example is great. I've given up on using it for most routing and just let it guesstimate mileage instead.

Does that mean that Apple is part of the Great Motorist Conspiracy Against Cyclists™?

-Kurt

http://www.youcanbikethere.com/

and to the section that says "2010 Company Bike Challenge Winners"

I consider it to be a pretty flagrant omission, as well. I don't regret my choice in phone/service, but this is yet another item on the list of ways Apple is lagging behind. I'll wait patiently.

Exactly. Especially good advice for anyone who relies on his bicycle, rather than his phone, for transportation.

of course it is best to know the streets yourself, no **** sherlock.

but guess what folks, not everybody rides in their area all the time. and if you are talking about a place as large as a city, your area is just a small piece of the pie. regardless, people like to explore on bikes. having a tool at your disposal that can let you be spontaneous and also get you out of a jam is a plus. having a smug attitude of 'just know the streets' is worthless.

I wonder how people didn't get lost before Apple invented the phone...

I wonder how people didn't get lost before Apple invented the phone...

A lot of people did get lost.

I wonder how people didn't get lost before Apple invented the phone...

I went exploring Beacon Hill at one point, heading further south than I'd been on that road, and on my bike. I had my GPS with me ( it's mounted to the handlebars; I use it as a speedometer and HRM ), but the map is small, and one reason I bike is to avoid computers. On the other hand, when you're at the top of a hill with most roads being residential dead ends, and very few arterials because your hill abuts the freeway and industrial wasteland ... you don't want to head down a hill only to climb back up. And I don't like heading home the way I came; I try to make loops unless I'm commuting. So this is definitely a case where GPS could have helped me, although on the other hand, I have a basic idea of the whole city's layout, so I could have found my way without it.

So I asked a lady who was out doing her gardening which road goes through, and was on my way. She was shocked that anybody would take a bike so far south from my neighborhood.

I wonder how people didn't get lost before Apple invented the phone...

I've carried city maps... but they of course require you to have some idea of where you are on the map in order to figure out where you could go. Of course good maps have indexes... so if you can read the city street names, you can find the index and figure out you are at grid "G4" or something like that, on the map. This index feature however is often not available on lessor quality maps such as tourist maps or even cycling maps... so indeed, even with some maps, one can be lost.

I wonder how people didn't get lost before Apple invented the phone...

before or after the apple phone, there were always stupid statements.

The first thing I do when I get on a bike is turn off my cell phone and put it on the bottom of the bag. One of the reasons I get on the bike is to get away from my phone.

before or after the apple phone, there were always stupid statements.
There were also legitimate thoughts before Apple invented the phone.

Just, chillax man. It's the Internet, people are going to have differing view points.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ride-the-city/id366684940?mt=8

I agree its a real shortcoming that apple devices don't
T have the excellent google biking directions...which I'll add are much more up to date than the several printed bike maps I own.

The only thing i can think of is that google has competitively decided to slow roll updates for apple products so as to advantage android over iphony.

I would really love to use

But what do you get out of being snarky and cranky all the time? It seems like you consider it your mission to save the world from cyclists you find annoying, and to do so in the most irritating way possible. Jeez man, get over it, move on, don't let it get to you so much.

Even when you're right it's like you try to be as disagreeable as possible.

He does, and I get irritated with him frequently.

However, please show me the part of this forum that promises to be an echo chamber of adulation for every anti-car self-martyring conspiracy theorist who comes up with some ludicrous example of "persecution". I sometimes come into the threads here where posters advocate "traffic calming" and lowering speed limits until cars are useless, and if I valued my time less, I'd behave much like ILTB. Apple is not conspiring against cyclists. There are a number of possible reasons they do not have the bike directions available in their Map app, and given that you don't know, crying "persecution" with no evidence is a great way to make yourself look rabid.

Part of the reason I do very, very little advocacy is I don't want to be associated with the rabid end of the movement, and frankly, as long as the rabid end exists, I don't want it to succeed.