Fifty Plus (50+) - Tonic water w/quinine for cramping muscles after a long hard ride

I have been working out a lot at the fitness center but have slacked off on long endurance rides due to other weekend obligations. My most recent long ride was the standard 40-mile ride with our group, but those rides have been fewer and further between. I haven't done any spin classes for at least a month.

We are planning the upcoming trip back to GWS this summer with some of our group members who want (I think) to ride the entire distance to Apsen. I knew I needed to start training, and fast. So, I [very reluctantly] chose to participate yesterday in a group ride to the beach --- 68 miles round trip.

Long story short..... I finished the ride in a state of total exhaustion -- completely drained. I was not bonking --- I ate and drank plenty, and the weather was cool most of the time. But when I finished, my body was sore from head-to-toe, and my quads were cramping. If I stopped moving, they seized up and almost forced me to continue stretching and moving. I dreaded the ride home in the truck.

One of the riders recommended tonic water w/quinine for cramps. So, after packing the bikes and gear in the truck, we headed for the nearest market. We immediately began guzzling before we left the parking lot. Within about 10 minutes, I drank about 1-2 cups.

Within 15 minutes, I noticed a BIG difference in the soreness and cramping in my legs. We stopped for dinner, and by the time we got home the cramping was gone. I still felt totally exhausted, and headed for the shower. I did a little stretching. I took NO aspirin, Advil, or any other OTC pill. I was ready for bed at 7:30 and slept like a baby all night. I experienced no cramping during the night.

This morning, by body still feels exhausted, and a little sore just about everywhere (like after a good work-out). What hurts most are my sit bones!! (This ride is probably the last on the stock saddle.) But, amazingly, my quads are the least of my pain this morning. Due to my overall fatigue, and delayed heart rate recovery last night, I'll probably take the next few days off.

A bottle of tonic water w/quinine is probably a good idea to keep in the fridge for post-ride recovery when you're legs are cramping. Or, take it in a cooler to drink (and share) immediately after the ride if you're away from home.

I am embarrassed to say that this remedy was shared in a thread I started here 3 years ago, but I never tried it until someone mentioned it yesterday. :o

Yen, let me be the first to say 2 things:

1. Welcome back!

2. Personally, I can't drink tonic water without a special flavoring called "gin."

HI, I bit and Goggled it and found that one of the waters still contain quinine while many donot contain enought to really effect anything.
Water is a big Plus
Quinine water may ease cramping and relax muscles.
((

Quinine has been used for some years for the relief of leg cramps, a problem that affects many people while sleeping at night. In 2006, the Food and Drug Administration banned drugs that contain quinine, except for the anti-malaria drug qualaquin. Consumers still seeking relief for leg cramps can find quinine in several brands of tonic water, including Schweppes. The quinine helps relax leg muscles.


Read more: Quinine in Tonic Water & Leg Pain | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/about_5410988_quinine-tonic-water-leg-pain.html#ixzz0s554myMu) http://www.ehow.com/about_5410988_quinine-tonic-water-leg-pain.html#ixzz0s554myMu

so you may be on to something should have bought some after my time trial whew that was real leg pain...
Doug

Thank you, Benge. :)

Whether or not the tonic water we bought contains enough of the quinine, I know that whatever I drank made a difference. I ate and drank plenty of plain water (1 bottle contained a little O.J.) during and immediately after the ride, and stretched plenty. But within minutes after drinking the tonic water w/quinine, the cramping was GONE. I wouldn't drink a lot of it, or often, but I'll keep it as a remedy for leg cramping after a really difficult ride. I'm a believer! (I'm also a believer in the placebo effect but I don't think that applies in this case.) :)

I've heard or read about Quinine but, never tried it. Advil works great for me after a hard ride. I'll stick with it.

Yen, let me be the first to say 2 things:

1. Welcome back!

2. Personally, I can't drink tonic water without a special flavoring called "gin."

Amen, brother. Cut me a wedge of lime...

Just two words - Pickle juice!

P.S. In a quick fix mustard works too.

Heart_Rate: Another member mentioned pickle juice yesterday. May try that next time to avoid any potential risks of quinine. Thanks!

My doctor recommended tonic water because of quinine but I dislike the taste. A better option for me is an over the counter drug called Leg Cramps. It has quinine and works super.

After a hard ride 50-100mi. I found that 2 beers, expedite leg recovery as well as prevent any cramping. Instead of limping around tomorrow, you will be walking around fine, not even stiff. I believe it's the folic acid. Read last year's Bicycling mags description of Beer, the next sports drink. I have made believers of many of my friends, try it, you';ll like it.

Wow. Just pulled up the data on quinine in our information, and it's scary. You can reference a very scary pdf at http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/UCM192698.pdf.

But whatever works. Benadryl 25 mg. at bedtime works just fine, although it might take you a moment or two longer to wake up in the morning.

If you lived in Kentucky, you would take apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar works for just about everything as I understand it. I might start taking it myself ;)

Timely thread, I just spent the weekend with a dear friend, a rather well know vascular surgeon. He and I rode a hard 60 miles and when we got back to his home he started downing tonic water just for this reason. Now me - I can't down tonic water unless it is well laced with gin.

quinine is bogus as it is too dilute. Tomaot juice, grapes and cider or cider vinegar. potssium isn't in useful amounts in bananas or a gin and tonic.

There was a folk medicine book very popular in the 60s that touted the benefits of cider vinegar and honey. Probably a little something to it. I wonder if it has to do with the acid it brings. A lot of "preventatives" have a acid component. Grapefruit and cranberry come to mind.

Quinine was originally derived from the bark of a Peruvian tree. I read the Aubrey/Maturin stories by Patrick O'Brian (the movie Master and Commander was inspired by this series) and the the most excellent physician Maturin would prescribe Jesuit's Bark (evidentially missionaries brought it back to the Old World) for any number of fevers. This led to a pun later in the series where the most able Captain noted that a Jesuit's Bark was worse than his bite...

quinine is bogus as it is too dilute. Tomaot juice, grapes and cider or cider vinegar. potssium isn't in useful amounts in bananas or a gin and tonic.

So what do you suggest?

I can't down tonic water unless it is well laced with gin.

I was inspired to run down to the Piggly Wiggly and buy some Canada Dry (contains quinine) Tonic Water and lace it with Tito's Vodka. A most excellent mix! I can tell you I have no cramps right now.

Quinine therapeutic dose as a malarial treatment is two 324 mg tablets every 8 hrs for 7 days- about 1944 mg/day. The amount of quinine in tonic water is about 80 mg/l. So half a liter of tonic water is about 2 % of a malarial treatment dose. Quinine does have some side effects - one to be especially cautious of - it causes your pancreas to excrete insulin - so quinine may cause hypoglycemia - special caution if you are a diabetic or pregnant.
I've used quinine for leg cramps, in addition I take a 100 mg potassium tablet; this combination helps me.
Your results may vary. Potassium tablets are in the vitamin section of most larger grocery or drug stores.

I personally like tonic water, with or without gin. Im glad this came up.

A slight aside, I know... but some time ago my opthamologist recommended tonic water to abolish an eye muscle tic. It did.
I developed a taste for tonic water with a dash of OJ in it - tastes like bitter grapefruit.

If you lived in Kentucky, you would take apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar works for just about everything as I understand it. I might start taking it myself ;)
Yeah, I read about cider vinegar with "the mother" of vinegar in it. Supposed to cure everything under the sun. I read about it for problems with constant throat clearing from post nasal drip. Interestingly it seemed to work - probably a placebo effect but who cares? I'm not sure what "the mother" is -- some sort of natural enzymes I guess but it is supposedly important that you get the kind that has it.

Quinine therapeutic dose as a malarial treatment is two 324 mg tablets every 8 hrs for 7 days- about 1944 mg/day. The amount of quinine in tonic water is about 80 mg/l. So half a liter of tonic water is about 2 % of a malarial treatment dose.
Are the serious side-effects of quinine idiosyncratic or dose-related?

After a hard ride 50-100mi. I found that 2 beers, expedite leg recovery as well as prevent any cramping. Instead of limping around tomorrow, you will be walking around fine, not even stiff. I believe it's the folic acid. Read last year's Bicycling mags description of Beer, the next sports drink. I have made believers of many of my friends, try it, you';ll like it.
I like this idea best, even if it turns out to be bogus. Don and I did extensive research on this with Terrapin Rye Pale Ale a few years ago, but I can't remember what we concluded.:o

I like this idea best, even if it turns out to be bogus. Don and I did extensive research on this with Terrapin Rye Pale Ale a few years ago, but I can't remember what we concluded.:o

;)

Heart_Rate: Another member mentioned pickle juice yesterday. May try that next time to avoid any potential risks of quinine. Thanks!

Just be sure not to drink too much otherwise you'll start retaining water due to excessive sodium. Been there done that. A little swig does just fine!

So what do you suggest?

from the gov. web site http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/toolkit/olderadults/OAfruits.pdf:

Sources of potassium • Baked white or sweet potatoes, cooked greens (such as spinach), and winter (orange) squash,• Bananas, plantains, many dried fruits, oranges and orange juice, cantaloupe, and honeydew melons, • Cooked dry beans and soybeans • Tomato products, • Beet greens

I just now finished 67 miles in 90F heat and drank a spicy V8, grapes and will drink a liter of water with apple cider and hiney. I'm not sure if this last drink helps but I like it.
I gotta go stretch now!

BTW, tonic water is useless. From a Harvard Medical web site: http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0105a.shtml
"The very small amount of quinine in tonic water (about 15 milligrams per 8 ounces) is low enough not to pose a danger, but probably too low to offer any benefit. "

I am in agreement gin and tonic is nice but I believe all alcoholic beverages are counter productive in preventing cramps or aiding recovery.

I'll have to try quinine water.
I just read about it on wikipedia and there are several references to using it to control nocturnal leg cramps.

HI,
I ve read that 1 tsp of good old arm and hammer baking soda in 12 oz of water will help neutralize the acid and improve recovery, Some say pre race it improve ability , and the old fashion vinegar starts acidic and is converted into,acettate and the remaining ash is very alk and helps too. .
Be sure the vinegar is natural old fashioned like Braggs that hasn't been filtered cause the good stuffs in the floating mother contained ( looks like yucky mold).
Most people tend to be to acidic for their own good IE to much meat and not enough fresh fruit and vegtables. so many health minded people are using 1litter of water to a tbls of apple cider vinegar, this will help prevent gout, and tends to detox the blood a bit.
but thats the old wives tale but many swear by it..

I just now finished 67 miles in 90F heat and drank a spicy V8, grapes and will drink a liter of water with apple cider and hiney. I'm not sure if this last drink helps but I like it.


Have what you want with your water and apple cider, but maybe some remedies are better kept to oneself?

Have what you want with your water and apple cider, but maybe some remedies are better kept to oneself?

Should you rinse the hiney off first? Maybe it's like that floating mother...

I used to get a lot of leg cramps, and not just from riding but -- swimming, sleeping, etc. Based on some research I did - I found that adding magnesium (500 mg) to my daily vitamin regimen pretty much eliminated the problem. It's supposed to be very good for the most important muscle too - your heart.

I used to get a lot of leg cramps, and not just from riding but -- swimming, sleeping, etc. Based on some research I did - I found that adding magnesium (500 mg) to my daily vitamin regimen pretty much eliminated the problem. It's supposed to be very good for the most important muscle too - your heart.
I take magnesium to avoid restless leg syndrome. Pretty much the same problem probably.

CoQ10 is in the quinine family and helps with muscle aches. My doctor recommends I take it to ward off muscle pain from the cholesterol meds.
As a side benefit I found it keeps me very regular too.

CoQ10 is in the quinine family and helps with muscle aches. My doctor recommends I take it to ward off muscle pain from the cholesterol meds.
As a side benefit I found it keeps me very regular too.

Please explain CoQ10 and save us the google search, If you have the time. Thanks.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coenzyme-q10/NS_patient-coenzymeq10
Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is produced by the human body and is necessary for the basic functioning of cells. CoQ10 levels are reported to decrease with age and to be low in patients with some chronic diseases such as heart conditions, muscular dystrophies, Parkinson's disease, cancer, diabetes, and HIV/AIDS. Some prescription drugs may also lower CoQ10 levels.

Or more extensive information on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10

Article on CoQ10 and athletic performance
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/coq10.html

Within 15 minutes, I noticed a BIG difference in the soreness and cramping in my legs. We stopped for dinner, and by the time we got home the cramping was gone. I still felt totally exhausted, and headed for the shower. I did a little stretching. ...
This morning, by body still feels exhausted, and a little sore just about everywhere (like after a good work-out). What hurts most are my sit bones!! (This ride is probably the last on the stock saddle.) But, amazingly, my quads are the least of my pain this morning. Due to my overall fatigue, and delayed heart rate recovery last night, I'll probably take the next few days off.

A bottle of tonic water w/quinine is probably a good idea to keep in the fridge for post-ride recovery when you're legs are cramping. Or, take it in a cooler to drink (and share) immediately after the ride if you're away from home.

I am embarrassed to say that this remedy was shared in a thread I started here 3 years ago, but I never tried it until someone mentioned it yesterday. :o

Just curious , what did you mean by "delayed heart rate recovery" last night, I'll probably take the next few days off."?


Interesting though, haven't had tonic water in a while. Never seen any mention of it in any cycling recovery column anywhere, so don;t be embarassed about missing a single thread posted here a few years ago.

Does it work in mitigating cholesterol muscle pain? Or is there something else going on there?

.
A bottle of tonic water w/quinine is probably a good idea to keep in the fridge for post-ride recovery when you're legs are cramping. Or, take it in a cooler to drink (and share) immediately after the ride if you're away from home.


No thanks. I'll stick to my carb loading regime during the recovery window after a ride/strenuous activity. If it was not diet, then the 'recovery" was likely due to sucrose/glycogen replacement/augmentation or possibly the sodium which is present in the diet version as well.

The last thing I read on cramping indicated they really don't know what causes it, but the leading culprets are over-fatigue and a lack of sodium.

During this time of year I dope my drinking water to 1/4 teaspoon/liter. I'm a salt sweater: my hydration pack straps turn white.

That said, I do enjoy Schweppes Tonic water. The only one I can drink. I too like a little gin in it, but I avoid alcohol after a ride: it blocks/slows glycogen replenishment.

Al

Should you rinse the hiney off first? Maybe it's like that floating mother...

That is pretty funny.

Note to self: we're asses.... no no no .....wear glasses when Minnman and ahsposo are reading

Yeah, I read about cider vinegar with "the mother" of vinegar in it. Supposed to cure everything under the sun. I read about it for problems with constant throat clearing from post nasal drip. Interestingly it seemed to work - probably a placebo effect but who cares? I'm not sure what "the mother" is -- some sort of natural enzymes I guess but it is supposedly important that you get the kind that has it.

Though it turns out that vinegar dosing is a well known mitigator of cronic sinus issues, I discovered it accidently while doing research on my discovery that apples can eliminate acid reflux problems. I do two tablespoons of vingar/day and it has improved my lifestyle tremendosly. Mostly I use just plain water vice tonic. It's done the same for the wife and daughter plus a few friends.

It's allowed me to cut my sinus medication by an order of magnitude.

I forgot to mention that it apparently needs to be cider vinegar.

The apples by the way have totally eliminated taking antacids, but the apples cost more. Apparently the rflux problem is common to asthmatics and is possibly due to the beta agonist drugs we have to take.

Al

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coenzyme-q10/NS_patient-coenzymeq10
Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is produced by the human body and is necessary for the basic functioning of cells. CoQ10 levels are reported to decrease with age and to be low in patients with some chronic diseases such as heart conditions, muscular dystrophies, Parkinson's disease, cancer, diabetes, and HIV/AIDS. Some prescription drugs may also lower CoQ10 levels.

Or more extensive information on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10

Article on CoQ10 and athletic performance
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/coq10.html

Thanks. I hadn't thought to look on Wikipedia.

While I see it is different it seems to be similar to an essential fatty acid.

While I currently only very rarely suffer from night cramps the blocking effect of statins and beta blockers may explain the cramps I suffered early in my use of those drugs.

I used something like this years ago when I was an endurance swimmer (1000m+). We used it to reduce lactic acid build-up and extend performance and reduce fatigue. As you can see from the web site, it is used for regulating heart arrhythmias as it gets the Potassium/Magnesium ratio to optimum levels. The Magnesium helps the leg cramps and the Bicarbonate neutralizes the lactic acid. It hasn’t helped my Afib much and I don’t know if it improved my swimming. Maybe that’s why I bike. Adding Vitamin D doesn’t hurt, either. Sodium ain’t the secret, but proper ratio of Na to Ca, K and Mg will help, though.

http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf

This is so confusing. Clearly there isn't enough quinine in tonic water to do any good but clearly this is the most popular. I understand most cramping problems are from lack of water during the ride. I have no idea how to proportion these ingredients and figure as long as I intake "stuff" my body will figure it out and take what it needs. Sport drinks are popular because we assume it has been scientifically selected and is popular.

I'm a lemming and occassionaly buy sport drink but more and more defer to raisins, tomato juice and try to drink water when ever I think about it; maybe most important is to spell "honey" correctly.

++++++++++++1!

I just hate the taste of tonic water. It tastes like hair tonic. I also dislike the taste of gin straight up (unless you wave a bottle of dry vermouth over it and add olives), although I love the smell. But when you mix the two together, a remarkable thing happens; the result actually tastes good! A true synergy; the whole is indeed superior to the sum of its parts.

And thanks for the facts about the amount of quinine in tonic water. I had always thought that gin and tonics were an invention of the very resourceful British, stationed in southeast Asian outposts, in order to ward off malaria; very Graham Greene/Evelyn Waugh. "Ah, reminds me of the time I was in Inja!"

Luis

So what do you suggest?

Tums.

What you have in most of these cases is an electrolyte deficiency. After being out for a couple of hours, you're losing not only sodium and potassium, but also calcium and magnesium, and that's leading to the cramping. A cheap roadie or touring solution is to pop a couple of Tums anti-acid tablets (calcium & magnesium sulfates) starting around the two- to three- hour point on long rides.

Be careful with serious side effects. Check out 2010 FDA warnings.[/FONT]
I have been working out a lot at the fitness center but have slacked off on long endurance rides due to other weekend obligations. My most recent long ride was the standard 40-mile ride with our group, but those rides have been fewer and further between. I haven't done any spin classes for at least a month.

We are planning the upcoming trip back to GWS this summer with some of our group members who want (I think) to ride the entire distance to Apsen. I knew I needed to start training, and fast. So, I [very reluctantly] chose to participate yesterday in a group ride to the beach --- 68 miles round trip.

Long story short..... I finished the ride in a state of total exhaustion -- completely drained. I was not bonking --- I ate and drank plenty, and the weather was cool most of the time. But when I finished, my body was sore from head-to-toe, and my quads were cramping. If I stopped moving, they seized up and almost forced me to continue stretching and moving. I dreaded the ride home in the truck.

One of the riders recommended tonic water w/quinine for cramps. So, after packing the bikes and gear in the truck, we headed for the nearest market. We immediately began guzzling before we left the parking lot. Within about 10 minutes, I drank about 1-2 cups.

Within 15 minutes, I noticed a BIG difference in the soreness and cramping in my legs. We stopped for dinner, and by the time we got home the cramping was gone. I still felt totally exhausted, and headed for the shower. I did a little stretching. I took NO aspirin, Advil, or any other OTC pill. I was ready for bed at 7:30 and slept like a baby all night. I experienced no cramping during the night.

This morning, by body still feels exhausted, and a little sore just about everywhere (like after a good work-out). What hurts most are my sit bones!! (This ride is probably the last on the stock saddle.) But, amazingly, my quads are the least of my pain this morning. Due to my overall fatigue, and delayed heart rate recovery last night, I'll probably take the next few days off.

A bottle of tonic water w/quinine is probably a good idea to keep in the fridge for post-ride recovery when you're legs are cramping. Or, take it in a cooler to drink (and share) immediately after the ride if you're away from home.

I am embarrassed to say that this remedy was shared in a thread I started here 3 years ago, but I never tried it until someone mentioned it yesterday. :o

Be careful with serious side effects. Check out 2010 FDA warnings.[/FONT]

Yen's post was three years ago. This Zombie Thread has been asleep for nearly that long.

Always good idea to check with healthcare practitioner about any and all drugs/supplements.

;) ;) ;) Make sure you see these before reading on...;) ;) ;) ;)

HTFU, leg cramps are a badge of honor. Get rid of them? No, ride to get 'em!

Oddly, I get leg cramps only from playing golf. Dreadful, up all night cramps. I drink a lot of tonic anyway, so that's no help. Sports drinks and potassium haven't helped either. I'll have to try magnesium. But riding never seems to cause more than the briefest of cramps. (It's only a problem in any case when the temperature is over 90, but that's going to be the next about the next 5 months here.)