Touring - How much break in on a Brooks before a tour?

I'm leaving on a 11 tour in Oregon in less than 2 weeks and have a saddle issue. For some reason the Terry Fly on my touring bike is suddenly feeling hard and I'm getting numbness on even short rides. I never had the problem in the past and haven't adjusted anything in a several years. 2 years ago I did 2 week long tours and had absolutely no issue with it. Maybe the padding has worn out.

Anyway I have a Brooks B17N that I bought last fall and use on another bike. It has about 200 miles on it but doesn't have the usual sagged broken in look yet. In fact other than a little more flex and some fine wrinkles in the leather surface, it looks like it did out of the box.

Would I be crazy to use the Brooks on the tour this soon? It has felt generally comfortable to me since new but I haven't logged much more than 30 miles in one ride and not ridden it for consecutive days.

A long ride on it before I leave would certainly help but I don't know if I'll have that opportunity. Any experiences from Brooks owners who have toured on it early would be appreciated.

Until a saddle fits you or is broken in..... I would not take any saddle regardless of brand on tour. It's your ass so to speak.

I found my regular brooks was pretty comfortable the first time I used it. By then the sit bone positions were discernable, and I put pressure on them with a golf ball, gently pressed down with a few gentle taps from a mallet. Then I took off on a 1000+ tour.

The issue is whether the leather is a good fit, if you don't have adeqate pressure from your body parts it can take agonizingly long to get the fit. This is why shoes are stretched with tools. You wouldn't hammer a nail with your toes and it is also painful to try to stretch out a shoe or seat with similarly fragile body parts. The thing with the golf ball trick is not to overdo it. Underdo it to start with, and work up rather than going crazy on the seat the first time out.

The tour I am speaking of more or less started from my home, and I didn't care if I was forced back to home base and had to start again. It would have been unwise to try that starting on the far side of the country or world...

i really don't think you will have a problem ,if you reckon the padding did you say in your shorts are worn if so get a new pair of top quality shorts combined with the brooks you should be nice and comfy.
best of luck with the tour.

That's quite a dilemma that you have there. I don't know that you really could fix your problem with the B17 narrow: how is it going to feel softer than the Terry?

One hope though: did you start to use new bicycle shorts? That could be one explanation. Another one is that the chamois in your present bicycle shorts is loosing effectiveness. What you describe might happen also if you gained weight or got out of shape or simply did not ride as much as usual lately. Does any of these possibilities apply to your situation?

Personally, the only issue I find with new Brooks saddles is that I tend to slide around a lot at first, but it isn't a big deal. I feel pretty comfortable on mine early on, and I don't notice much change subsequently.

Brooks told me that the B17N may require up to 1000 miles to break in. I was still miserable after 400 miles and the vision of another 600 miles made me nauseous so I sold the saddle. Standard B17 may need half of that but I wasn't willing to experiment any further.

Without knowing Adam's situation specifically, that is exactly analogous to what happens in a shoe store every day. Get a customer who gets a near enough shoe that fits tight across the ball of the foot vs. the toes, and the toes are never going to stretch out a heavy box, while the ball of the foot might get the job done without any pain if the shoe was worn for several short walks. In either case, going mechanical on the problem with a shoe stretching machine should eliminate the problem pretty quickly. It's like if you try to build a deck with a nail file, vs a circular saw, your mileage to success will vary. Some people are just going to have a relationship to a leather saddle where their bones, weight, and position relative to structure in the saddle will create different break-in times. Using something less fragile than the butt to get the job done will pay off if you have the skill to do it.

How exactly do you think Brooks' saddles 'break in'??







(hint: by riding them on things like 11-day tours.)

If you want to work on the saddle form while you are riding, take a barely-damp washcloth and set it on the rear 2/3rd's of the saddle for ~5-10 mins before riding the first few days. The slight amount of dampness will help the saddle conform to your sitbones in the first few days, but will not make it so wet that it sags... the rest of the tour just ride it.

By the way, it should be pretty-durn comfortable from day 1. if its not, the adjustment is off, or it might not be the saddle for your keister.

Two weeks is plenty of time to get the saddle properly adjusted and to determine whether it is acceptable to plant your ass in for x hours a day. Best way to break in a Brooks...besides proper position, is by miles and butt sweat...you can get a lot of miles and butt sweating in over two weeks too.

You're asking me? I'd take the Brooks. Nothing beats a brand new Brooks.

Anyone who wants to trade a new Brooks, either B17 or Flyer, for a broken in one: contact me.

Two weeks is plenty of time to get the saddle properly adjusted and to determine whether it is acceptable to plant your ass in for x hours a day. Best way to break in a Brooks...besides proper position, is by miles and butt sweat...you can get a lot of miles and butt sweating in over two weeks too.

+1. I'm lucky with Brooks, they don't give me much of a problem from the off, but I agree with chipcom. Do plenty of riding on it in the next two weeks and by the time you're ready to go, you'll know whether you're comfortable - and you'll have another 300 or so miles on the Brooks and it'll be well on the way to being broken in.

If you were just going down to the local campground for a trial run, I'd say "Go for the Brooks". You can always take a bus home.
If you are going to put a few mountain passes between yourself and home, I think I'd reconsider breaking in the new saddle on the road.
I have a Brooks somewhere in my garage (along with some other Brand X units). It never did "Break In" to where it was comfortable. Thousands of kms later it was still and anvil. Of course that can happen with any saddle.
Like the man said"It's your ass".

Perhaps I should have gone with the regular B17 not the narrow, or altogether a different one, but I was less than two weeks from my first tour and I didn't want to try another Brooks. I may still try another model in the future. I picked the B17N because it was the cheapest and lots of people reported good result with it. Perhaps that was a mistake. It was my perineum that suffered so it seems now that maybe it was too narrow, didn't engage my sit-bones properly? But I think if it had a cutout it'd be better since I'm pretty sure I was sitting on my sit-bones. My current saddle isn't any wider.


If you were just going down to the local campground for a trial run, I'd say "Go for the Brooks". You can always take a bus home.
If you are going to put a few mountain passes between yourself and home, I think I'd reconsider breaking in the new saddle on the road.
I have a Brooks somewhere in my garage (along with some other Brand X units). It never did "Break In" to where it was comfortable. Thousands of kms later it was still and anvil. Of course that can happen with any saddle.
Like the man said"It's your ass".

I was considering taking a "known good" saddle along if I decided to go with the Brooks. Just in case.


+1. I'm lucky with Brooks, they don't give me much of a problem from the off, but I agree with chipcom. Do plenty of riding on it in the next two weeks and by the time you're ready to go, you'll know whether you're comfortable - and you'll have another 300 or so miles on the Brooks and it'll be well on the way to being broken in.

I did 400 miles, including two weekend overnighters, some dayrides and a few weeks worth of commuting and I just figured it's not going to work for me.

I have used a method similar to what positron described. I fold a microfiber towel in 1/4's so it is about 12x3in. Put it where your sitbones contact the saddle, and slowly pour enough water on the contact points to dampen the towel til it is moist to the touch. Now ride until the towel dries (the moisture will soften the contact points). I have 'broken in' 4 different Brooks this way, with no ill effects. It does not make the saddle so wet that it damages the leather, only softening it enough to conform to your sit bones.

I have a B17 (regular) and a B17N (narrow) on my bikes.

The B17 got reasonably comfortable after about 100 miles. The B17N however has not softened up one bit, even after about 200 miles and chopping the sides off.

FWIW I'd say that if the Terry is an older saddle, just get a new one and deal with the B17N some other time.

I never had to break in my Brooks, it was really comfy from the get go. If it's not causing any discomfort on long rides, I'd say it's already broken in.

Until a saddle fits you or is broken in..... I would not take any saddle regardless of brand on tour. It's your ass so to speak.

Thanks for the laugh out loud.

Like chasm54, Chipcom, and KrisPistofferson, I've never had break in problems with a Brooks. I have 4, and I find that they start comfortable, and just get better. You'll be fine if you ride a bunch before your tour starts.

Like chasm54, Chipcom, and KrisPistofferson, I've never had break in problems with a Brooks. I have 4, and I find that they start comfortable, and just get better. You'll be fine if you ride a bunch before your tour starts.

I won't say that I've never had break in problems with any Brooks. My Team Pro and my taint have been having a love-hate relationship for years. :o

I bought a new B17 Standard and, when riding that saddle, perineum pain begins within half an hour or so. I then bought a new B17 Imperial and find it to be very comfortable with no discomfort at all so far. I hope the first will become more comfortable once I give it a cut out similar to the Imperial.

I have done almost 1400 km on my Brooks B17 Standard. It was fairly comfy when I first got it, but as my sitbone dimples have grown, it is now lovely. It does minimize the choice of riding shorts, as it can be a tad slippery, but that isnt much of a problem.

The longest I have had my arse on it so far was 5 hours, and there was a little pain after that, but less, I think, than using other saddles I have used.

Looking foward to some longer rides on it now that it is broken in.

New LHT coming soon :)

z

I'm not sure about this, but I think that Brooks riders who are suffering from any kind of pereneum pain are simply not getting their weight on their sit bones. Your body weight should never be on your pereneum (chode, taint, call it what you like) on any saddle. A cut out in a saddle should (in my theory) be unnecessary if your weight is properly distributed via a correctly angled and oriented saddle. Remember, before you flame me: this is just my theory.

I'm not sure about this, but I think that Brooks riders who are suffering from any kind of pereneum pain are simply not getting their weight on their sit bones. Your body weight should never be on your pereneum (chode, taint, call it what you like) on any saddle. A cut out in a saddle should (in my theory) be unnecessary if your weight is properly distributed via a correctly angled and oriented saddle. Remember, before you flame me: this is just my theory.

For non-upright riding positions I think some people have more of a tendency to sit on their taint, especially if they are having to reach too far to their bars. Trying to correct this via saddle position usually results in the saddle being tilted too far forward, causing the rider to be constantly sliding forward and having too much weight supported by their arms. Rather than sitting on the taint, one should try to roll their hips more forward and have the weight supported by the sit bones. Assuming saddle fore/aft is already correct in relation to the pedals, one might need a shorter stem, different stem angle or even a different frame with a shorter top tube to reduce the distance to the bars to allow them to properly straddle the saddle.

My own taint issues with my team pro come from chaffing, usually when it's very humid and I am riding hard, but not wearing cycling bibs or shorts. I can ride all day without cycling specific bibs/shorts (with chamois) on a B17...not so much on a team pro.

I'm not sure about this, but I think that Brooks riders who are suffering from any kind of pereneum pain are simply not getting their weight on their sit bones. Your body weight should never be on your pereneum (chode, taint, call it what you like) on any saddle. A cut out in a saddle should (in my theory) be unnecessary if your weight is properly distributed via a correctly angled and oriented saddle. Remember, before you flame me: this is just my theory.

grundle.

Why not bring both saddles in the event that one does not work out too well? If I had a spare non-leather saddle I might bring it for rainy days while I protect my leather saddle in a pannier. I assume that the saddle you have is sized for your sit bones and not too narrow.

I broke in a Brooks Conquest (discontinued model) a few months ago, method is below. Like badamsjr and positron, I use water.

The goal here is to use water to make the leather moist, not too wet. If too wet, you can destroy the saddle. I soak the saddle for 15 seconds in cold water and towel dry. Let it rest for 15 minutes (while I am installing on the bike) so that the water that got into the leather can soak into the leather and ride it a short distance, maybe 5 miles. Stay close to home in the event that the leather takes shape sooner than expected so you can get off of the saddle. If that is not enough, next day use a 20 second soak. And if that is not enough try a 30 second soak a day later. Do NOT try to get it to the completely broken in shape, just give it a good start this way.

Once it has the desired shape, dry out the saddle and then apply proofhide. I put a proofhided saddle in a clear plastic bag in the sun so that it can get well warmed up to let the proofhide soak into the leather without getting dangerously hot. WHen you take it out of the bag, wipe off excess proofhide with paper towels.

If you weigh over 200 pounds, 15 seconds of soaking might be too long.

I bought a new B17 Standard and, when riding that saddle, perineum pain begins within half an hour or so. I then bought a new B17 Imperial and find it to be very comfortable with no discomfort at all so far. I hope the first will become more comfortable once I give it a cut out similar to the Imperial.

I asked Brooks and they advised me against making a cutout in the B17, they said it'd ruin the saddle.


I'm not sure about this, but I think that Brooks riders who are suffering from any kind of pereneum pain are simply not getting their weight on their sit bones. Your body weight should never be on your pereneum (chode, taint, call it what you like) on any saddle. A cut out in a saddle should (in my theory) be unnecessary if your weight is properly distributed via a correctly angled and oriented saddle. Remember, before you flame me: this is just my theory.

I'm pretty sure I was sitting on my sitbones. It's just the middle was too high no matter what the angle or position of the saddle was. I think if it had a channel or cutout in the middle it would work much better for me. My sitting position was quite upright on this bike as well.

Adam

..

I really appreciate all of the feedback and tips on speeding up the saddle break in everyone provided.

I put an older Terry Race saddle from another bike that I've had good luck with in the past on my tourer last night and rode about 15 miles before dark. It has a higher rise in the back sit bone area and a larger cut out than the Fly has. The results were no numbness at all and only a little feeling of pressure on the sit bones. I attribute that mainly to the fact that I just haven't used it in a while and my arse needs a little adjustment time. This will probably be my fail safe saddle to take.

I still want to put the Brooks on the bike I'm taking and give it a good 30 -40 mile ride as a test. It may feel different than on the bike it is currently on. It is dialed in nicely now but may not make the transition as well. I originally mounted it on a bike I ride more often than the tourer to break it in faster. If it feels good then the choice gets tough and I may lean toward the Brooks with the thought that it will only get better with each day. The other factor is the destination and chance of moisture along the coast. I can cover it at night but don't want to ride with a cover. However I have fenders so it would take some pretty good rains to have to resort to that and I don't think that is too likely in OR in July. The Terry is pretty light so the suggestion of taking it also may be an option if I have room.

I do know that once the B17N gets on my Expedition is isn't coming off until either it or I wear out. I also know that any new saddles in my future will probably be Brooks. I was pretty impressed with the fact that it wasn't uncomfortable even when I first used it. I've also been dissapointed in the lifespan of the Terry Fly. I also had a newer version of the Race that did the same thing a couple of years ago. Their older models with the raised rear seam to hold up fine.

Another question: Once a Brooks gets well broken in and the sit areas concave, does the then relatively higher nose area pose a greater problem with pressure on the pereneum? Do you just give it slightly more angle to compensate?

Once you get one well broken in, you can adjust the front bolt slightly to tension the center, OR (and not everyone likes this idea) lace it. After a cutout and breakin on my B68, it had a large sag in the center that I was unwilling to try to remove with tension, so I laced it along the edges of the cutout and bottom edges, and now it rides like a dream!

I really appreciate all of the feedback and tips on speeding up the saddle break in everyone provided.

I put an older Terry Race saddle from another bike that I've had good luck with in the past on my tourer last night and rode about 15 miles before dark. It has a higher rise in the back sit bone area and a larger cut out than the Fly has. The results were no numbness at all and only a little feeling of pressure on the sit bones. I attribute that mainly to the fact that I just haven't used it in a while and my arse needs a little adjustment time. This will probably be my fail safe saddle to take.

I still want to put the Brooks on the bike I'm taking and give it a good 30 -40 mile ride as a test. It may feel different than on the bike it is currently on. It is dialed in nicely now but may not make the transition as well. I originally mounted it on a bike I ride more often than the tourer to break it in faster. If it feels good then the choice gets tough and I may lean toward the Brooks with the thought that it will only get better with each day. The other factor is the destination and chance of moisture along the coast. I can cover it at night but don't want to ride with a cover. However I have fenders so it would take some pretty good rains to have to resort to that and I don't think that is too likely in OR in July. The Terry is pretty light so the suggestion of taking it also may be an option if I have room.

I do know that once the B17N gets on my Expedition is isn't coming off until either it or I wear out. I also know that any new saddles in my future will probably be Brooks. I was pretty impressed with the fact that it wasn't uncomfortable even when I first used it. I've also been dissapointed in the lifespan of the Terry Fly. I also had a newer version of the Race that did the same thing a couple of years ago. Their older models with the raised rear seam to hold up fine.

Another question: Once a Brooks gets well broken in and the sit areas concave, does the then relatively higher nose area pose a greater problem with pressure on the pereneum? Do you just give it slightly more angle to compensate?

Leave the angle alone....either tension it with the tension bolt, or if you ain't afraid of doing a little leather work, lace it.
I'm not exactly Mr. Leather artist, but I prefer lacing. It seems like at least half the stories I hear about people trying to adjust the tension bolt don't end well.

Leave the angle alone....either tension it with the tension bolt, or if you ain't afraid of doing a little leather work, lace it.


I concur.

grundle.

tickle bridge. gooch. barse. watford gap. crabwalk. miracle inch. biffen bridge. chinrest. driving range. tweenis. crossroad. bungus. bonch. ginch. skid row.

tickle bridge. gooch. barse. watford gap. crabwalk. miracle inch. biffen bridge. chinrest. driving range. tweenis. crossroad. bungus. bonch. ginch. skid row.

Wow, I know that English has a lot of words for either extremities of that region but I am at awe before so much creativity for the part that goes between!

Moving on a more productive note (from my last post about the diversity of taint nomenclature)...

Adjusting a Brooks to the correct angle and fore/aft position is CRITICAL in benefiting from its design. The back of the saddle has a rise in order to allow your sit-bones to hold your weight. Furthermore, I think that soaking the saddle in water or applying water directly to the saddle as a break-in method is unnecessary, and perhaps even foolish (though it may work for some)

My opinion of the correct setup of a Brooks saddle is as follows. For those who can't bear to read my rambling words, I've highlighted the important parts:

1. The nose of the saddle should be angled in such a way that your weight will mostly be on the back part of the saddle, and the midsection and nose of the saddle should not be invading your nether region. Bikes with upright riding positions (cruiser or riser bars) will perhaps have the nose angled a tiny bit up, and bikes with a more aggressive position (handlebars an inch or more below the height of the saddle) will likely have their saddle level or angled a tiny bit down. My handlebars are level with my saddle on my Surly LHT, so the mounting rails of my B-17 are perfectly level (checked with a torpedo level at the time of installation).

2. The saddle should be adjusted to the fore/aft as to assure that the rider's sit bones are contacting the saddle about 1.5 inches in front of the rivets. This should assure that the middle section of the saddle is not holding your body weight, but serving as a "table" to rest your taint and "gentlemen" atop. A prerequisite for achieving this setup is that that your frame, stem, handlebars, and seatpost should be fitted properly.

3. I can't imagine why some people feel the need to soak their saddles in water and then ride them in order to break them in. Brooks explicitly warns against riding a wet saddle, and I believe that it could stretch and weaken the leather around the rivets.

Instead, heres what I do:

Before I ever ride the saddle, I treat it with Proofide. I aggressively massage every square inch of the saddle with the Proofide (not too much, not too little...using common sense as a guide....). Then I let the Proofide dry and sit for several hours or overnight. Then, with a dry, clean rag, I polish any excess off the saddle so that I don't get a stain in my shorts.

4. Then the saddle is ready to ride. The effect that other posters have tried to achieve here with water soaking is something that I achieve with my own sweat. Rather than saturating the leather and stealing it of its natural oils as the first step, I seal them in first with the Proofide and then let my own "natural moisture" aid in the break-in process.

5. As for maintainence, I try to keep my saddle out of direct UV light for extended periods of time, and I cover it with a plastic bag or waterproof saddle cover if I'm parking it or riding it in heavy rain. Fenders are a really important measure of protection to keep water from spraying up against the bottom of the saddle. It seems to me that adjusting the tension bolt up front should only be necessary in the event of a lapse of care, perhaps in which you've ridden the saddle when its soaked and stretched it out, or otherwise mistreated the leather of the Brooks. I've been on my current B-17 Champion Special on my main bike for 3 years now, never having adjusted the tension because I've protected the leather well. I weigh 190 lbs, and I live in hot, humid Japan, so I think if anybody was going to naturally stretch their leather more than I have, they'd have to be significantly heavier, sweatier, and smellier than I.

Obviously everyone is going to have their own methods for dealing with their Brooks. These are mine, and they've suited me well. I've never ruined a saddle with the above techniques, all my saddles look practically brand new, and I never, ever, ever have any butt, chode, grundle, asscheeck, or genital discomfort before I hit 100 miles of continuous riding (and at that point, you're on your own).

Why not bring both saddles in the event that one does not work out too well? .

Or pack a spare taint.

Seriously, if it feels pretty good now, take a few more rides on it before then and it'll probably be fine. I have 3 of them ( a B17, a Swift, and a Team Pro). All 3 were fine out of the box for me (even the pro), but maybe I'm just taintless or something. Level positioning has worked for me on all 3, and I've never adjusted them any different after break in. BTW, "Seat Saver" from Hammer Nutrition works great for those long days if some chaffing starts (or to help prevent it before it does). Have fun on your trip.

Before I ever ride the saddle, I treat it with Proofide[/I][/U]. I aggressively massage every square inch of the saddle with the Proofide (not too much, not too little...using common sense as a guide....). Then I let the Proofide dry and sit for several hours or overnight. Then, with a dry, clean rag, I polish any excess off the saddle so that I don't get a stain in my shorts.


I purchased my Brooks while on vacation in England last year and the gent in the bike shop I bought it at told me his method of treating the saddle. He indicated treating the underside of the saddle was more important than the top and he melts the Proofhide and pours it onto the underside and works it around. I didn't feel like taking the chance of getting the Proofhide liquid without hitting the flashpoint, so I did a modified version. I heated up the saddle a little in the oven and spread the solid Proofhide on the underside. It melted and soaked in nicely to the leather and then I did the normal application to the top. That seems to have worked quite well and although my saddle hasn't "dimpled" yet, it has good flex to the leather and I think that is why it has worked for me since day one.

BTW: The purchase has a story but briefly it was a feel good moment as we left Oxford having dealt with a round about accident and rental car exchange the day before....... It turned the low light of the trip into one of the highlights for me.

I asked Brooks and they advised me against making a cutout in the B17, they said it'd ruin the saddle.
Thanks. I'll try LHT in Madison's quick water soften method first.

Brooks B-17s and Champion Flyers have worked for me right out of the box...no break in req'd. YMMV.

Me too! I have a Selle Ana on my tourer that was a B17. Sweet from the get-go. I have a Swift on my roadie and it is yet to show any bone dents at 5000 miles. Comfortable, but I think I'm sitting on the rear part of the saddle.

If you have doubts, dare I say it, take them both.

Best, John


I have a B17 (regular) and a B17N (narrow) on my bikes.

The B17 got reasonably comfortable after about 100 miles. The B17N however has not softened up one bit, even after about 200 miles and chopping the sides off.

FWIW I'd say that if the Terry is an older saddle, just get a new one and deal with the B17N some other time.

Once you get one well broken in, you can adjust the front bolt slightly to tension the center, OR (and not everyone likes this idea) lace it. After a cutout and breakin on my B68, it had a large sag in the center that I was unwilling to try to remove with tension, so I laced it along the edges of the cutout and bottom edges, and now it rides like a dream!

First time I've ever seen this. did you just use a drill to make the eyelets? It looks like you laced the top and bottom, are they tied together or separate? The laces don't run into you?

I used a leather punch (looks like an oversized hole punch for paper, with a wheel that has different size punch cutters) to cut the holes. There was a complete thread on lacing a Brooks, and some of the posters said they had trouble using a leather punch, because the leather is so thick on Brooks, but I was persistant, and gave the punch a little twist while under pressure, and was able to get it to work on four different saddles. Some of the posters suggested using a drill, bur my problem with that is it might tear the leather, the holes may not be clean, and if you slip with the drill, you could even injure yourself. I wear leather gloves, and use a fair bit of pressure, but it has worked well for me. My punch is about 40yrs old too, so a newer one might work better.

I have this one cross-laced, top to bottom. Top right to bottom left, and vice versa. The laces have not caused any problem--to the contrary, they have enabled me to stiffen up the center of a "well broken in" saddle (significant sag in the center after a cutout to aleviate 'hot-crotch') without chancing overtightening the adjustment bolt. The profile view shows how well I have been able to straighten the line of the saddle. Before lacing, there was about 1 1/2in sag!

P.S. Just did a search for 'lacing a brooks' and found the thread--titled "Lacing a Brooks...how I did it". Good pictures, and reminded me that there are more ways to lace a brooks. The OP's method is bottom-to-bottom, which I saw on a 'pre-aged' B68 I bought. I like the top-to-bottom method, but it requires you to do a cutout, sort of like Selle Anatomica saddles.

I was part of the original test group for Brooks before they introduced the Imperial to the general public. They sent me a B-17 N and for the life of me that thing nearly killed me (well at least it gave me a high voice) I have several regular B-17's and they never hurt me like this even out of the box. I traded it for a Brooks Pro model which I didn't really like all that much either so I sold it too. I now ride my B-17 that is 4 years old and its a very comfy saddle and was right out of the box though not as nice as now. Ya just gotta ride em cowboy. I would not go on an extended tour with a new Brooks unless I had another saddle that was pretty comfortable that I could change out every other day.

Thanks :) love mine out of the box (on the butt) but even after tensioning it sags a bit. when I grab the two bottom 'flaps' and pull it goes almost perfectly level, may try soemthign like a cutout lacing after it's nice and worn in.

I purchased my Brooks while on vacation in England last year and the gent in the bike shop I bought it at told me his method of treating the saddle. He indicated treating the underside of the saddle was more important than the top ....

At least he knew what he was selling. This is what Brooks say you're supposed to do in their instructions. The proofide is absorbed far faster through the rough "unfinished" underside of the saddle and you break in the saddle much quicker as a result. Brooks explicitly tell you to apply very little proofide to the top.