Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Pedaling and cadence don'ts

I know you hear all the time from that you should pedal a high cadence. Generally it's a no-brainer, but there are some cases, especially with clydes and/or people just learning or recently getting back into cycling, where high cadence is a self-defeating bad habit.

I hate to see someone pedaling their ass off with a high (60rpm+) cadence in a gear so low that they really aren't getting anywhere...and usually get their HR up into the red zone in the process, even on the flats - usually evidenced by short spurts of pedaling with lots of coasting in between.

Don't get me wrong, spinning a high cadence is a good thing...if you can do it in a reasonable gear and pretty much continuously. Constantly coasting because either your muscles or your cardio can't handle it means you're pedaling too fast. Increase the gear, slow the cadence, work on your pedal stroke, keep your heart rate at about 80% of max and only coast when it's fun...not as a break for you heart/legs. Keep them legs moving...soft pedal if necessary. You have to learn to recover while pedaling and you need good, long, steady distance (LSD) base miles to build up your base fitness and form before you go trying to do Lance-rate cadence and/or racer-type interval training. You can work on increasing your cadence and doing intervals (aka rolling roads to many) once you have a good foundation of fitness, form and miles to build on.

Of course this only applies to those of you who have goals on the bike that include more than just having fun. If riding slow and coasting most of the time is what makes you happy, then by all means, enjoy! :beer:

60rpm is a high cadence? news to me!

I admit it, I LOVE coasting. So fun. But I do my best to limit the coasting for "sightseeing purposes" and keep pedalling the majority of
the time.

It took me a while to figure out the difference between pedalling a consistent, useful cadence and bouncing around like a lunatic with fleas in her shorts.

I like to stand up and coast.

I knew I was doing something wrong. I don't know anyone else who cycles, or even has a bike so I threw myself into this blindly. I have been doing exactly that (spinning really fast in short bursts, then needing to coast to catch my breath and rest). Once I even needed to pull over and get off the bike. I have been getting very discouraged lately, like this was not meant to be. I will try the slower method. Maybe I will gain some endurance and this hobby can take off! Thanks!!!

One of the reasons I have a trainer in the living room is so I can set the bike up and just spin 90tpm for an hour or more. There's no coasting on a trainer, so you have to keep pedaling. Good way to find your stroke and then take it out into the rest of the world.

I knew I was doing something wrong. I don't know anyone else who cycles, or even has a bike so I threw myself into this blindly. I have been doing exactly that (spinning really fast in short bursts, then needing to coast to catch my breath and rest). Once I even needed to pull over and get off the bike. I have been getting very discouraged lately, like this was not meant to be. I will try the slower method. Maybe I will gain some endurance and this hobby can take off! Thanks!!!

This is absolutely not what it was meant to be like, no.

It's all Lance Armstrong's fault! LOL. Before he came along, only serious competitive cyclists talked much about cadence, and now we're in a situation in which "Lance pedals a faster cadence than most of the pros, and Lance keeps winning, therefore we should all pedal a faster cadence". The only problem is that Lance can pedal a faster cadence because he already has an exceptional cardiovascular system and has trained professionally all his life. In other words, his faster cadence is a consequence of his prowess, not a cause of it. It was a deliberate strategy that he and his coach worked out to play to his particular strengths.

Telling novice cyclists that they should be pedalling at 90rpm as if cadence was some sort of end in itself is just wrong. Most of them won't be able to do it and some will become discouraged, think they're doing something wrong, imagine they're just not cut out for cycling. They should certainly be encouraged not to simply grind along in a gear that is too high, it's hard work and bad for the knees. But there's no formula. The answer is just to select the gear that allows you to pedal at a rate that feels comfortable and allows you to maintain your momentum without huge effort. That is what gears are for, and it's simple - your body will tell you what your natural cadence is. As you get stronger, you'll find your cadence tends to get faster naturally, because you are stronger and your cardiovascular system will sustain a higher level of effort without strain.

Once you are more experienced, and fitter, if you want to challenge yourself physically by all means pick a cadence - say 85 - 90 rpm - and try to sustain it for an extended period. It's good training. Until then, forget about it and enjoy riding your bike.

I disagree that non-racers were the only ones talking about cadence before Lance Armstrong.

In the late 70s I know bicycle tourists were talking about cadence a lot. It just made more sense to spin high in low gear going over a mountain pass. The goal was to prevent knee injuries. Now maybe it leaked over from racers but to me the touring crowd was always different than the racing crowd. It was big then and bikecentennial made it bigger I think.

Part of the reason for using the rollers in training (and not only racers used them) was to have a good cadence without being herky jerky.

I agree it is technique here. I would rather see someone riding slow than bouncing up and down with their bike weaving but 80 RPM is just not that fast. can't even imaging going at 60

60rpm is a high cadence? news to me!

I'm just using that as a benchmark. If you have to rest by coasting every five minutes while doing 10mph on the flats - your cadence is too high and your gear is too low.

I admit it, I LOVE coasting. So fun. But I do my best to limit the coasting for "sightseeing purposes" and keep pedalling the majority of
the time.

It took me a while to figure out the difference between pedalling a consistent, useful cadence and bouncing around like a lunatic with fleas in her shorts.

pics or it didn't happen. :p

Everything I know about cadence I learned from riding a single speed mountain bike. :D

60rpm is a high cadence? news to me!
News to me too.

To the OP, I would counter that learning to cycle right, including at a "high" cadence, is actually something most people should do from the start rather than waiting until one has accumulated some magical number of base miles. High is relative, but 60 most definitely is nowhere near a high range. Higher cadences allow a person to exert less force on each pedal stroke. Doing so helps reduce stress on the knees and other joints. I've seen a variety of suggested beginning ranges including 60-80 and 70-90. I think somewhere around 70 or more is a good number to shoot from at first.

I'm just using that as a benchmark. If you have to rest by coasting every five minutes while doing 10mph on the flats - your cadence is too high and your gear is too low.
Then perhaps a different "benchmark" is needed? When I first started riding I actually did spend time spinning and then coasting. Over a relatively short period I found that the time spent spinning was increasing and the time coasting decreased. While I was doing this I was also focusing on technique, spinning circles, etc, rather than just pushing down on each pedal stroke.

Telling novice cyclists that they should be pedalling at 90rpm as if cadence was some sort of end in itself is just wrong. Most of them won't be able to do it and some will become discouraged, think they're doing something wrong, imagine they're just not cut out for cycling. They should certainly be encouraged not to simply grind along in a gear that is too high, it's hard work and bad for the knees. But there's no formula. The answer is just to select the gear that allows you to pedal at a rate that feels comfortable and allows you to maintain your momentum without huge effort. That is what gears are for, and it's simple - your body will tell you what your natural cadence is. As you get stronger, you'll find your cadence tends to get faster naturally, because you are stronger and your cardiovascular system will sustain a higher level of effort without strain.

Once you are more experienced, and fitter, if you want to challenge yourself physically by all means pick a cadence - say 85 - 90 rpm - and try to sustain it for an extended period. It's good training. Until then, forget about it and enjoy riding your bike.
Yup, 90 RPM for a novice isn't usually going to work well. They'll be bouncing all over the seat. One thing that I've discovered is that "a rate that feels comfortable" for most people is quite slow. Pedaling at the oft recommended cadences appears to be counter to what most people think they should do. Only after spending some time developing spinning technique does a person start to realize that spinning faster has value.

60rpm is a high cadence? news to me!
You'd be surprised! Several people here bike to school, it physically hurts my knees to see them smashing high gears at 30 rpm. I'd be impressed by the gear they were using if they were going faster than 12 mph...I really don't know how their knees can take it.

I've seen a variety of suggested beginning ranges including 60-80 and 70-90. I think somewhere around 70 or more is a good number to shoot from at first.That's like walking...about the same rate of leg movement.

I hate to see someone pedaling their ass off with a high (60rpm+) cadence in a gear so low that they really aren't getting anywhere...and usually get their HR up into the red zone in the process, even on the flats - usually evidenced by short spurts of pedaling with lots of coasting in between.



60+rpm is high ? My knees complain below 65. I'm comfortable anywhere between ~70 and 105 rpm and i'm good for about 100km with the cadence in that range.

As a teen, I never even KNEW about cadence; once I got back into serious riding (40+), I was on my 2nd bike before the word was even mentioned, even by my fanatic-cyclist buddy.

I've always just found a cadence that was comfortable for the pace I wanted to set -- not too high (pedaling like a maniac and not getting anywhere), and not too low (not lugging and grinding my knees). It turned out to be around 80.

On the other hand, what I see most often is people pedaling so slowly that they have to LEAN into each pedal stroke to support the high gear they're in.

I tend to like to cruise in the 95ish range. Since I'm riding fixed a fair portion of each ride tends to be somewhat higher or lower cadence than that. I think the most important thing is for one to find out which cadence works best for his/herself. That optimal cadence will change depending on one's form and riding terrain as well.

Increase the gear, slow the cadence, work on your pedal stroke

People typically start-out using too high gears (because it's "faster"). A higher cadence does a lot to smooth out one's pedal stroke.

If one is starting out, trying to maintain a high cadence is a mistake because it takes time to get there. (60 RPM isn't "high".)

=================


I disagree that non-racers were the only ones talking about cadence before Lance Armstrong.

In the late 70s I know bicycle tourists were talking about cadence a lot. It just made more sense to spin high in low gear going over a mountain pass. The goal was to prevent knee injuries. Now maybe it leaked over from racers but to me the touring crowd was always different than the racing crowd. It was big then and bikecentennial made it bigger I think.

This.

Higher cadence is pretty common among any group of experienced cyclists.


I agree it is technique here. I would rather see someone riding slow than bouncing up and down with their bike weaving but 80 RPM is just not that fast. can't even imaging going at 60

60rpm is a fairly good initial target. It isn't surprising you can't imagine doing that! Most novice cyclists can't imagine doing 80 RPM!

=================


On the other hand, what I see most often is people pedaling so slowly that they have to LEAN into each pedal stroke to support the high gear they're in.
And it's not uncommon for people to injure their knees doing that!

=================


Telling novice cyclists that they should be pedalling at 90rpm as if cadence was some sort of end in itself is just wrong.

Is there really anybody telling "novice cyclists" this?

I'm just using that as a benchmark. If you have to rest by coasting every five minutes while doing 10mph on the flats - your cadence is too high and your gear is too low.

This topic (I suspect) is because of watching me the other day. At higher (to me) speeds, say like 14-15MPH I was mostly gasping at 80-85RPM. Chipcom suggested going up one gear, and lowering my RPM a bit. In my case it made it a bit more comfortable while maintaining a higher than normal (for me) speed.

And yes, at 90RPM I tend to bounce like a ping pong ball...

Hi Chevy, here is something else to think about as you slow your cadence and get into a rhythm. Sounds funny- but do you know how to pedal? funny, huh?

most people think- "sure, just puch down on the pedal"! Lots more to it than that! for know think about maintaining a continuous cadence - and (here is the tricky part)- don't let your leg "rest" on the pedal as it comes up on the backstroke! Most beginners do this and don't realize they are making the other leg work twice as hard- besides trying to move you forward, now you are "lifting" the dead leg. Make it an active motion and lift your leg as it comes back up.

Try this when you are going slow, get comfortable with it- then ask other questions here - lots of good advice here- and more to learn about pedaling.

News to me too.

To the OP, I would counter that learning to cycle right, including at a "high" cadence, is actually something most people should do from the start rather than waiting until one has accumulated some magical number of base miles. High is relative, but 60 most definitely is nowhere near a high range. Higher cadences allow a person to exert less force on each pedal stroke. Doing so helps reduce stress on the knees and other joints. I've seen a variety of suggested beginning ranges including 60-80 and 70-90. I think somewhere around 70 or more is a good number to shoot from at first.

Getting pendant about numbers waxing poetic about numbers does nothing to attack the root problem...people pedaling too fast, in too low of a gear, getting nothing accomplished but sending their heart rate into the red zone causing them to stop pedaling to rest.

Then perhaps a different "benchmark" is needed? When I first started riding I actually did spend time spinning and then coasting. Over a relatively short period I found that the time spent spinning was increasing and the time coasting decreased. While I was doing this I was also focusing on technique, spinning circles, etc, rather than just pushing down on each pedal stroke.

No, what is needed is to quit obsessing over numbers and more concentration on a proper pedal stroke and cadence that one can maintain...at least until a base level of fitness is gained so that one can improve without doing more harm to themselves than good.

I'm far from a 'serious' rider, but I spent the last winter on the trainer working on spinning at 90. Trainer's not quite real world, but when I could do a solid hour at 90 rpm in the big chainring and 2nd smallest cog, I went and tried in on the local path. Big difference. Of course, dropping an extra 20 lbs over the winter didn't hurt, either. Making the change from clips and straps to clipless added about 2mph to my average pace as well.

I'm still a wimp on hills and need to do some serious climbing drills if I'm going to get better and reach my goal of being able to do a 300 mile tour, but working on cadence worked for me.

60+rpm is high ? My knees complain below 65. I'm comfortable anywhere between ~70 and 105 rpm and i'm good for about 100km with the cadence in that range.

Then obviously this thread isn't directed towards you. This thread is directed to those folks who can't maintain a cadence of any number.

On the other hand, what I see most often is people pedaling so slowly that they have to LEAN into each pedal stroke to support the high gear they're in.

Yup..that's a whole nuther enchilada, probably deserving of a thread of its own.

People typically start-out using too high gears (because it's "faster"). A higher cadence does a lot to smooth out one's pedal stroke.

Yes, but that isn't the behavior we are discussing here....we are discussing observed behavior of pedaling too fast in too low of a gear.

This topic (I suspect) is because of watching me the other day. At higher (to me) speeds, say like 14-15MPH I was mostly gasping at 80-85RPM. Chipcom suggested going up one gear, and lowering my RPM a bit. In my case it made it a bit more comfortable while maintaining a higher than normal (for me) speed.

And yes, at 90RPM I tend to bounce like a ping pong ball...

The bouncing may come from that sprung saddle :eek:

I just want you to work on the ability to keep pedaling, at whatever cadence and gear suits you. If you want to do 120rpm in your granny gear, I am cool with that...as long as you can maintain it for more than a couple of minutes...but I hope you'll do what I suggested - find a cadence that you can maintain for extended periods while keeping your heart rate around 80% of max. Coasting is a blast...I don't want to take the fun out of cycling...but cycling is even more fun when you can do it effortlessly. That century isn't going to be enjoyable for you if your heart rate is red-zoning every 5 minutes over the course of 10 hours. Ya know, flat centuries like the HHH have their downsides too...besides the wind, you don't get a lot of opportunity to coast without losing appreciable momentum, unlike a rolling route where each little incline is rewarded by a nice little decline. ;)

Hmm, I don't have a cadence. I just ride my bike.

I'm told I have two different pedal strokes, however.

This topic (I suspect) is because of watching me the other day. At higher (to me) speeds, say like 14-15MPH I was mostly gasping at 80-85RPM. Chipcom suggested going up one gear, and lowering my RPM a bit. In my case it made it a bit more comfortable while maintaining a higher than normal (for me) speed.

And yes, at 90RPM I tend to bounce like a ping pong ball...


Generally for an experienced and reasonably fit rider the following applies, but as always YMMV:

The bicycle motor has a power band that generally runs between 75 and 90RPM, much below 75RPM and your lugging that motor, and that adds stresses and makes the motor inefficient. Over 90RPM and the motor uses a much faster increase of energy to operate then the gain in forward energy used by the bicycle. This can result in a very fast ride that is shorter because the motor uses fuel too quickly.

Now Peter, I think I recall in another thread that you are a smoker, the gasping at 80RPM may be from your bicycles motor having a clogged air filter:D Dump the cancer sticks, all they do is ruin your health and cost a lot of money.

I read an article a while back about a person's efficiency at their natural cadence and then at some other one the rider had to maintain. As I recall the riders performed best at their natural spin, but these were trained athletes that spin fast anyway.

I started out slow (I actually developed tendinitis at that stage) and eventually got faster and faster. At a casual pace on the flats I like to stay over 100, at speed I like 95-100, this is natural and only discovered after I bought a bike computer. Climbing is a free for all because I still suck at it.

Getting pendant about numbers waxing poetic about numbers does nothing to attack the root problem...people pedaling too fast, in too low of a gear, getting nothing accomplished but sending their heart rate into the red zone causing them to stop pedaling to rest.
And suggesting that 60 RPM is anywhere near too fast is a disservice to all of the people who come here to learn.

No, what is needed is to quit obsessing over numbers and more concentration on a proper pedal stroke and cadence that one can maintain...at least until a base level of fitness is gained so that one can improve without doing more harm to themselves than good.
And when a person trashes their knees due to pedaling too slowly while mashing the pedal because they've been cycling at 50 RPM, then what? I was taught long ago that bad practice is not a good thing, and I don't buy into your theory of do it wrong for a while until you get a bit more fit.

Your original post suggested that 60 RPM is excessive, and what you're seeing from a number of people is that may not be good advice.

Hi Chevy, here is something else to think about as you slow your cadence and get into a rhythm. Sounds funny- but do you know how to pedal? funny, huh?

most people think- "sure, just puch down on the pedal"! Lots more to it than that! for know think about maintaining a continuous cadence - and (here is the tricky part)- don't let your leg "rest" on the pedal as it comes up on the backstroke! Most beginners do this and don't realize they are making the other leg work twice as hard- besides trying to move you forward, now you are "lifting" the dead leg. Make it an active motion and lift your leg as it comes back up.

Try this when you are going slow, get comfortable with it- then ask other questions here - lots of good advice here- and more to learn about pedaling.
These are good points, and much more helpful than suggesting artificially low cadences. Something that helped me learn to spin early on was to pedal with just one leg. Obviously this needs to be done with feet clipped to the pedals and on a quiet road. Detach one leg and use the other to pedal as smoothly as possible all the way around. Do this with both legs and practice often until you can feel that you're applying pressure throughout the pedal stroke.

I'm one of those that uses a slower cadence. In my case it's backwards. If I spin at a high cadence with little resistance from the pedals my knees start to hurt. So in my case, dropping my cadence down to the 60-70 range and shifting to a higher gear improved both my comfort and speed.

Let's compare it to driving a car. If you want performance, you'd keep your RPM between the peak torque speed and the peak horsepower speed...say between 4000 and 6000 RPM. But if you're just out cruising around, you'll most likely be operating at 2000 to 2500 RPM.

I'm one of those that uses a slower cadence. In my case it's backwards. If I spin at a high cadence with little resistance from the pedals my knees start to hurt. So in my case, dropping my cadence down to the 60-70 range and shifting to a higher gear improved both my comfort and speed.
Interesting. A few questions.
How fast were you trying to spin?
Have you had your bike fitted?
What type of pedals do you have (platform, toe clips, clipless)?
Do you feel you do a good job at spinning in circles, or do you mostly push down on the pedals?
When you slowed down your pedaling did you also slow down your overall speed, or are you going the same speed, but just turning over the pedals slower?

And suggesting that 60 RPM is anywhere near too fast is a disservice to all of the people who come here to learn.

<sigh> what is a disservice is obsessing over arbitrary numbers while failing to see the actual point...which has nothing at all to do with some arbitrary number. If you want to obsess over a number, feel free to start a thread about it.

And when a person trashes their knees due to pedaling too slowly while mashing the pedal because they've been cycling at 50 RPM, then what? I was taught long ago that bad practice is not a good thing, and I don't buy into your theory of do it wrong for a while until you get a bit more fit.

Your original post suggested that 60 RPM is excessive, and what you're seeing from a number of people is that may not be good advice.

No my original post suggested nothing of the sort. Please quit trying to hijack the thread because you got your panties in a bunch over arbitrary numbers and can't understand the actual point of the thread, even though it has been reiterated multiple times. Geesh, are you really this thick?

Here I'm sure this number will send you over the edge...PURPLE!! :rolleyes:

To the OP, I would counter that learning to cycle right, including at a "high" cadence, is actually something most people should do from the start rather than waiting until one has accumulated some magical number of base miles. High is relative, but 60 most definitely is nowhere near a high range. Higher cadences allow a person to exert less force on each pedal stroke. Doing so helps reduce stress on the knees and other joints. I've seen a variety of suggested beginning ranges including 60-80 and 70-90. I think somewhere around 70 or more is a good number to shoot from at first.

No, the most important thing is to reduce the likelihood of injury. That is, people should not start out with too low a cadence.

There is nothing that indicates that 60 or so RPM is too low.

Then, depending on their interest and goals, people can choose to work on being able to pedal at a higher cadence (whatever the cadence they choose to normally pedal at).

Generally for an experienced and reasonably fit rider the following applies, but as always YMMV:

The bicycle motor has a power band that generally runs between 75 and 90RPM, much below 75RPM and your lugging that motor, and that adds stresses and makes the motor inefficient. Over 90RPM and the motor uses a much faster increase of energy to operate then the gain in forward energy used by the bicycle. This can result in a very fast ride that is shorter because the motor uses fuel too quickly.
<SNIP>

I could not agree more. There is no exact "right cadence" for any one rider. There are extremes at both ends. You see the pedal mashers and you see the racers with the legs being a blurr.

We all grew up in Holland where pedal mashing on a 1 or 3 speed bike is the norm. Two years ago we finally got my mom upgraded to a bike with 21 speeds so that she can ride in here area as there are hills and that old 40+ Lbs Raleigh was a beest in those conditions. It worked great in Amsterdam and Haarlem as her main mode of transporation, but most of the time you only rode maybe a mile or to the stores and back and taking us to school or some other place.

With my Mom's new bike I started to teach her to use a steady cadence that felt good and then use the gears to control the amount of effort, and had her not concertrate on speed. She can not now ride up some pretty steep hills without much effort. Before she'd try to mash and would not be able to make it up. A reasonable cadence is very helpful. I'd say that around 60 rpm is a very reasonable goal for new riders. I now ride about 87 to 94 on my commute, but I've been riding daily for a better part of 4 years. That didn't happen over night for me either.

Happy riding,
André

A low cadence in of itself isn't going to hurt anyone. A low cadence because you are in a gear so high that you can't turn the pedals any faster without sending a kneecap into orbit...yeah, she's a no good. ;)

The point is to find a combination of cadence and gear that allows you to pedal continuously*, maintain a fair speed and keep your heart rate below the red zone. This is a good starting point from which to build from and much better than either pedaling your butt off for a couple of minutes, sending your heart rate into the red zone while in a gear so low that you might as well be walking, then having to stop and coast to recover, or straining your knees trying to push too high of a gear and walking up the slightest inclines.

* you are allowed to coast...it's fun, especially on downhills (as long as you are not leading a group), but should be limited to those times when doing so doesn't cause you to lose all your hard-earned forward momentum. ;)

A low cadence in of itself isn't going to hurt anyone. A low cadence because you are in a gear so high that you can't turn the pedals any faster without sending a kneecap into orbit...yeah, she's a no good. ;)

Not exactly.

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1044-cyclists-knee-injuries.htm
http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/injury-prevention/knock-out-knee-pain
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5485511_road-biking-knee-pain.html
http://www.roadcycling.com/training/kneepain.shtml
http://www.roadcycling.com/training/kneepain.shtml
http://www.endurancerehab.com/resources/articles.php?aid=patellofemoral-pain
http://www.hawkeyehealthcare.com/SMConference/2005-6/overview_of_cycling_sports_medic.htm
http://www.nhospt.com/main.asp?page={2DCBE397-190C-4564-AA4D-5C397DA65CF7**
http://www.sirc.ca/newsletters/mid-june09/Feat1.cfm


The point is to find a combination of cadence and gear that allows you to pedal continuously*, maintain a fair speed and keep your heart rate below the red zone. This is a good starting point from which to build from and much better than either pedaling your butt off for a couple of minutes, sending your heart rate into the red zone while in a gear so low that you might as well be walking, then having to stop and coast to recover, or straining your knees trying to push too high of a gear and walking up the slightest inclines.
This seems like reasonable advice. It isn't clear that this is really a common issue.

Thanks. I haven't really though about that, but I suspect that is exactly what I have been doing. I will go out today and try to remember to lift my leg. I really want to get into this, but so far I haven't been able to do more than 10 miles.

[QUOTE=chipcom;11067568]A low cadence in of itself isn't going to hurt anyone. A low cadence because you are in a gear so high that you can't turn the pedals any faster without sending a kneecap into orbit...yeah, she's a no good. ;)

I have to agree to a point of how fast observed cyclist is going. If someone is not going very fast or top speed, imo they should not be at optimum smooth cadence. Example, if one is cruising to the store for groceries, going to the movies, library, site seeing, etc, why would one try to hit optimum cadence or optimum cadence? Also, I have found a big source of bouncing to be bike fit. If observed cyclist is on a training/club/fitness ride, he/she should be conscience of cadence/speed/heart rate/etc. imo. I think the op is refering to someone pushing too hard in too high gear observed by the rowing, back and forth motion of said cyclist.

I would agree to not worry about THE number but I would also say that 60 rpm in the saddle is darn low.

My wife (neither of us are Clydes or Athenas) complains of knee pain and her issue is that she is a masher. I catch her up shifting all the time and I fuss up a storm over it.

It is true, some people are naturally mashers and with good knees and such, they can spin away at low cadence a lifetime but most people, including me and most particularly my wife, really need to be spinning much faster. The high spin rpm reduces the load per cycle on the knees and in particular the overloading of the joint. Think about it like this, take a coat hanger wire and bend it only very slightly back and forth really fast. You can bend it slightly back and forth nearly forever. Now bend it a whole bunch but very slowly and soon it breaks. So, this comes to my final point, mashers as an observation often have their saddles too low which contributes to their mashing and low rpm. Get your saddle height correct and work on spinning at a higher rate, preferably something well over 60 rpm and closer to 80 to 110.

Oh, let me add this, unless you are using toe clips or some other retention system pedals you will never get out of the "mashing" habit.

Also, if your butt is bouncing in the saddle, this is an indication you are spinning to fast and is especially exacerbated by using no foot/shoe retention system and low saddle.

Rocking hips, too high of a saddle, usually not the issue with mashers IMO.

Not exactly.

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1044-cyclists-knee-injuries.htm
http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/injury-prevention/knock-out-knee-pain
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5485511_road-biking-knee-pain.html
http://www.roadcycling.com/training/kneepain.shtml
http://www.roadcycling.com/training/kneepain.shtml
http://www.endurancerehab.com/resources/articles.php?aid=patellofemoral-pain
http://www.hawkeyehealthcare.com/SMConference/2005-6/overview_of_cycling_sports_medic.htm
http://www.nhospt.com/main.asp?page={2DCBE397-190C-4564-AA4D-5C397DA65CF7**
http://www.sirc.ca/newsletters/mid-june09/Feat1.cfm

Now please quote where any of these articles state that a low cadence in an appropriately low gear for the cadence causes damage. :rolleyes:



This seems like reasonable advice. It isn't clear that this is really a common issue.

It's perfectly clear to anyone who can see and isn't blinded by their own preconceived notions.

It's common enough for the person who inspired this thread.

I would agree to not worry about THE number but I would also say that 60 rpm in the saddle is darn low.

60 rpm is fine if you are in a gear appropriate for 60rpm.