Touring - Sport(Light) Touring bike build questions

It started with a desire to build a fully loaded touring rig. I posted a thread asking for suggestions on the build of a Soma Saga and the responses were great. But, in the end, I decided that I should build something more practical. A bike capable of carrying a 30 lbs load plus my 185 lbs for weekend excursions.

I don’t want to go into every nitty-gritty build detail, but there are 3 areas I do have questions about.

The frame: I’m considering a cross bike such as the Surly Cross Check or Soma Double Cross. But with short chainstays and higher BB, they both seem prone to handling issues when loaded on the rear only as well as heel clearance issues. It seems that even with a light load, moving some of the load up front would be prudent. Or, is that not necessary?

Wheelset: Both bikes can accommodate 130 or 135 hubs. I have a set of 36H Mavic Open Pro rims. Would building them with XT hubs be overkill? Would 105 or Ultegra hubs be more appropriate?
Or; I have a 32H Mavic CXP22 with Specialized hubs wheelset that I could ‘borrow’ from another bike. But 32H and unknown spokes seem iffy to me?

Crankset: A MTB crank with 44T outer ring, again, seems overkill to me for a light tourer. I think a 48/36/26 would be a good combo with a 11-32 cassette. But, there doesn’t seem to be many mid-range trekking triples out there. I see Sugino and some MTBs with 46T a lot. Anyone have any other crank options that would make sense for light touring?

Thanks in advance.

I have a 50/39/30. Rode from NY to LA.

I have a 50/39/30. Rode from NY to LA.

That might be the way to go. A quick Google search showed lots of nice options. Thanks!

the Cross-Check has long horizontal dropouts so if you put the rear wheel near the back of the drop outs it's close to 17.5", not 16.7" for chainstay length.

At first I thought rear load only would result in bad handling but I was wrong although I'd be inclined to move some of that 30lbs forward into the frame or on the front end and not use big panniers.

I've put on an Axiom Streamliner DLX rear rack but using ss straps instead of their clunky mounts to connect to the seat stays. With Ortliebs two smaller panniers I have heel clearance for my size 11 ft. The narrow Axiom rack is SOLID. With fenders the regular seat stay struts would interfere but with ss straps it fits fine. Seriously it's as solid if not more than a Tubus Cargo that costs over twice as much.

I originally set the bike up with single Surly 38t ss chainring and chainguard with a 11-28 cassette for in town and 11-34 for that cross country trip I missed out on. Now it's got a 30t inner, 44 middle w. chainguard and 12-32 cassette.

On the front end I've got a small Nitto type front rack that I could strap a small duffle or compression bag on.

I don't see any problem putting a low rider front rack and panniers on if you wanted to go with two sets of small panniers.

The wheels are Velocity Synergy with OC rear wheel. 32 spoke front and 36spoke OC rear.

Consider a Soma Smoothie ES ?
Mine is set up for light touring with 105 level components, 2x9 drive train.
A Mavic CXP23 wheelset, generic crankset from another project with 26 and 40 chainrings with 11-34 cassette; bar end shifters. Cane creek long reach brakes and salmon kool stop pad with cross top brake levers. Schwalbe marathon tires. Over a 1000 km so far, ride is good, handling nice [even lightly loaded - 10 kg] - leaving friday for a 650 km ride, going to use a saddle bag.

Crankset: A MTB crank with 44T outer ring, again, seems overkill to me for a light tourer. I think a 48/36/26 would be a good combo with a 11-32 cassette. But, there doesn’t seem to be many mid-range trekking triples out there. I see Sugino and some MTBs with 46T a lot. Anyone have any other crank options that would make sense for light touring?
.

Velo Orange sells the XD triple with 48/36/26 rings.

They also have SIX new cranksets due in August. The Grand Cru 110 double is shown first, the triple doesn't have a photo yet.
http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/04/grand-cru-110bcd-crank.html http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/S88znkff2CI/AAAAAAAAKMg/VLY9QY42OXM/s400/VO+110+bcd+prototype-crank.jpg
http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/02/velo-orange-cranksets.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/S4VDC0bNI1I/AAAAAAAAJ5k/RLumgtBxaps/s400/VO+crank+Poly+prototype.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/S4VDJIxYOuI/AAAAAAAAJ5s/qXqN4fTTHWE/s400/VO+crank+triple+prototype.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/S4VDPLSa0SI/AAAAAAAAJ50/668hxzKAwcg/s400/VO+crank+double+prototype.jpg

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/07/grand-cru-crank-update.html
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/TCzpm7uxg_I/AAAAAAAAKdw/OpBNUIxzkvQ/s320/VO+Grand+Cru+Crank+3.jpg

They're all listed here..... this is the dealers web site, but it show what WILL be available.
http://www.voimports.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=29

The XT M771 goes, 48, 36, 26. I have it on my Vaya for light touring.

I have a 50/39/30. Rode from NY to LA.

I rode from SF to LA with 22lbs of gear and was quite happy I'd replaced my 50/39/30 with a 48/38/26! I could have done the ride with my road triple, but the trekking crank made long hills seem just a bit easier. I've got a standard 12-27 cassette, though...

Cross bikes work fine for touring; people have toured successfully on them for decades. Unless you have massive feet or huge panniers pushed as far forward as possible, I doubt you'll have heel strike issues.

In terms of handling, just keep the weight low and it'll be fine. You could even get something like the Topeak Super Tourist rack, which lowers the panniers a little bit.

I went through this process a year ago and ended up with a Shimano 105 triple (50-39-30) with NOS Shimano 105 9 speed brifters and a 9 speed rear cassette (11-34). While normally I like lower gearing on a touring bike, this is working well for light loads and some pretty stiff climbing.

If I were doing this today, I would have a 10-speed system - Shimano 105 triple, Shimano 105 10-speed brifters, and a new SRAM Apex 10-speed rear cassettee (12-36), with an Apex rear derailleur.

If I were doing this today, I would have a 10-speed system - Shimano 105 triple, Shimano 105 10-speed brifters, and a new SRAM Apex 10-speed rear cassettee (12-36), with an Apex rear derailleur.

Unfortunately, that setup won't work. SRAM rear derailleurs are only compatible with SRAM shift levers due to the 1:1 actuation...

Edit: In addition the Apex RD is limited to a max of 32-teeth on the cassette. Not surprisingly the only Apex cassette on SRAM's site seems to be an 11-32. If you want 12-36 you'll probably need a pricey XX rear derailleur and cassette.

Plus two chains to link together. My Sram 970 was long enough for a 48t ring and a 34t low gear, but you'd need another link or two to go any bigger.

Unfortunately, that setup won't work. SRAM rear derailleurs are only compatible with SRAM shift levers due to the 1:1 actuation...

Edit: In addition the Apex RD is limited to a max of 32-teeth on the cassette. Not surprisingly the only Apex cassette on SRAM's site seems to be an 11-32. If you want 12-36 you'll probably need a pricey XX rear derailleur and cassette.


oops - you're right. I was typing , not thinking.

In any case, I *would* today try the SRAM set-up w/10 speed SRAM brifters. You're right; the apex's largest rear cog is 32.

In any case, I *would* today try the SRAM set-up w/10 speed SRAM brifters. You're right; the apex's largest rear cog is 32.

I might try it myself! I've got SRAM Red on my road bike and love the DoubleTap shifting. Apex with a compact double (50/34) crank and 11-32 cassette gives gearing that ranges from 28-122 inches. My current touring setup (48-38-26 crank + 12-27 cassette) goes from 26 to 108 inches, which isn't that different...

It started with a desire to build a fully loaded touring rig. I posted a thread asking for suggestions on the build of a Soma Saga and the responses were great. But, in the end, I decided that I should build something more practical. A bike capable of carrying a 30 lbs load plus my 185 lbs for weekend excursions...

I wonder if the desire for a 30 lb load and a Sport(Light) may be exclusive? I have a Gunnar Sport which is capable of carrying a rack and panniers and is great for weekend credit card tours. However, it is spec'd with a load limit of 20lb for the rear rack.

A bike capable of carrying a 30 lbs load plus my 185 lbs for weekend excursions.

What about this? Have you toured on it yet?

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww1/rothenfield/89%20Miyata%201000LT/89Miyata1000009.jpg

FWIW, I'd consider 30# of gear (plus bags/panniers) to be fully loaded warm-weather domestic touring.

Wow! What a beautiful looking bike. Where ever did you find such a wonderful photo?

No, very unfortunately, I haven't been able to yet. I absolutely love that bike. I've been on some long day rides with about 10 lbs. of stuff. It was this bike that turned me from being a vintage road bike nut into wanting to build the best modern touring bike I could afford. When I was a youngin', I road my 10 spd Schwinn Continental all over the backroads of Southern Indiana. Then we moved and I never road again until about 5 years ago when I rediscovered the thrill and freedom of riding again. I've lost 60 lbs. and my favorite past-time is torquing on bikes. Now, times are tough, and as an independent contractor, I don't get vacations so my dream of riding Hwy 1 down the West Coast is not going to happen any time soon. I still feel a need to build a modern touring bike. For some reason I couldn't get inspired by the Saga. But, I do have an image in mind of what this bike could be.
http://www.somafab.com/doublecross_one.html

FWIW, I'd consider 30# of gear (plus bags/panniers) to be fully loaded warm-weather domestic touring.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I read "light touring" in the original post. To me 30 pounds of gear including bags and panniers is just regular loaded touring.

BTW: The Sugino XD600 comes with 48/36/26 chainrings and with an 11-32 cassette I like it just fine for touring. I did replace the 26 with a 24 though.

I still feel a need to build a modern touring bike. For some reason I couldn't get inspired by the Saga. But, I do have an image in mind of what this bike could be.
http://www.somafab.com/doublecross_one.html

Unless you have specific needs to be addressed, like more heel clearance or custom geometery due to irregular body measurements, you'll be hard pressed to find a new frame that gives a better ride. FWIW, I'd consider modernizing the drive train (but keep the BioPace) and other components as you feel necessary. That's what I did.

I've decide not to change a thing on that bike. Besides the saddle, tires, bar tape and pedals; it's all original. In the vintage bike world, that means a lot. I thought about modernizing the bike, with barcons at least, but felt conflicted about changing what seemed to work so well. I started rebuilding lugged steel bikes a couple of years age, but getting my head around what it would take to build a modern touring bike has been a real challenge. I don’t think there is any other type of cycling that puts more demands on a bike then what I see some of you doing carrying ungodly amounts of gear on every type of terrain in every condition around the world. It had me excited about trying to build such a bike until I had to face the reality that I wasn’t going to be able to take a multi-week trip any time soon. So, I decided to build the best weekend warrior bike I could. Yes, I have the bike to do it now. But I’d still like to try this and there’s a lot that I’m still learning about bikes.

For example; I’d like to use the 36H Open Pro rims, but I’ve read mixed reviews about their durability for light touring. Would going with 135 MTB hub with a strong spoke make that much difference over a road hub like a 105 or Ultegra, or should I just start looking for a touring rim?

As far as the 30 lbs carry weight, I’m a fairly experienced backpacker and I know I could carry less, but for the purpose of this build, I wanted that weight range.

oh heck you've already got a nice bike. I don't think you'll get an appreciably lighter bike. My Cross-check with rack and fenders isn't a light bike. Your 30lbs makes the biggest difference. You might consider a minimal front rack to carry a compressed stuff sack. I've got an old Suntour bar con on the right bar end with the front derailleur shifter on the down tube.

shimano shadow rear derrailleurs go to 36.

Well, I’m not sure if this project is going to ever get off the ground or not. I’ve been trying to sell my vintage Italian bike for several weeks now. I have someone who wants to take a look Monday. We’ll see.

In the mean time, I’ve been trying to figure if I can use some of the parts I already have to save money. One is the 36H Open Pro rims that I have almost convinced myself will work although I’m unsure about what hubs to use. My gut tells me to use 130 road hubs such as 105s instead of a 135 MTB. I also have an Ultegra 6500 long cage RD but am concerned about how large a rear cog it can handle. I read a post saying that 30T was doable, but most say 27T is the limit. With a 26/36/48 crank, what is my limit?

I also have an Ultegra 6500 long cage RD but am concerned about how large a rear cog it can handle. I read a post saying that 30T was doable, but most say 27T is the limit.

27T is the official limit from Shimano. In practice, many people find that 30T works fine.

I may need to post this on the Mech. Forum but, I'm looking to use a Sugino DX 600 triple crank 26-36-48 with a 9spd 12-30 cassette on a 130mm hub. I've read that Sugino suggests a 113 BB for road hubs, but how do you determine what the chain line will be before actually having the parts?

I may need to post this on the Mech. Forum but, I'm looking to use a Sugino DX 600 triple crank 26-36-48 with a 9spd 12-30 cassette on a 130mm hub. I've read that Sugino suggests a 113 BB for road hubs, but how do you determine what the chain line will be before actually having the parts?

Check their website (http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/japan/product_crank_xd2_japdan.htm)

I’m meeting the guy today who wants to buy my Italian. If it works out, I’ll be ordering some parts this evening so it’s a good time to take stock and the last chance to change my mind.
Frameset: Soma Double Cross (Not sure of size, I’m 6’ and think 58cm)
Rims-36HOpenPro(Have) Hubs- 105…..Spokes- Still deciding.
Cassette: 9spd 12-30 (If I can find one at a fair price)
Crankset: Sugino XD 600 26/36/48
BB: IRD qb 75 (110 or 113?, I think the 110 might be the better choice.)
RD: I’m going to try to use my Ultegra
FD: Tiagra
Bars: Has anyone ridden the Salsa Woodchippers?
Shifters: DA 9x3 Bar ends
Levers: Cane Creek
Brakes: Cantis, still working on which ones. Not Paul’s, too pricey.

For light loads, you should also consider the Salsa Casseroll and Soma ES. For more money, the Gunnar Sport or Crosshairs are great options. Also the Bianchi Volpe.

The main reason I'm going with Soma is that I can get shop prices on the frames. I have considered the Smoothie.

Ciao Baby!

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww1/rothenfield/Bianchi%20TSX/92BianchiTSX008.jpg

Riding a sexy Italian model sure is fun. But, sooner or later, you realize that what you really want is a sensible, stable ride capable of carrying the load for the long-haul.

I ordered a set of XT hubs today.

I sold my 26yr old Bottechia road bike a couple days ago. Sad but I'm not 150lbs anymore.

I have used a 50,40,24 combination, both in a 110 bcd triple M730 cranks with a 14-32 6 speed freewheel , for thousands of miles
[Amsterdam to England Norway, DK to Poland and back, Via Austria and Bavaria Alsace France to Belgium, etc]

liked it so well for my light weight bike I got a Campag Race triple in those ratios 50,40, 24
(got a few un used Campag 30t,74 bcd chainrings if any one wants them)

and have a 13 -28 6 speed on the rear of those .. shifters are Campag Rally and a triomphe leisure , on the front.
70's era Campag Bar end shifters..

loaded tour bike used 80s Campag Olympus MTB derailleurs & sun tour ratchet bar end shifters ..

I have the Sugino XD cranks on my 26" Co-Motion touring bike. I bought them from Bilenky Cycles, which has a pretty good price on them @$109. Although they are listed with 26-36-46 chainrings, Bilenky was able to order me the crank with a 48t big ring at no additional cost. If that's what you want, then check with them (or your LBS) and see about ordering the chainring size you want.

http://www.bilenky.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=68

BTW, I'm using it with a 113mm XT square-taper BB with 135mm XTR rear hubs and an 11-34 XT 9-speed cassette. No problems. Bilenky's site suggests 113/118mm BBs. Not sure what the difference is? Maybe I should technically be running a 118mm BB with 135mm rear hub. But it all works, and chainline is fine.

If price isn't an issue and you want a super-pretty, totally customizable crank, check out the TA Carmina (http://www.bilenky.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71). I have a set on my Cannondale touring bike that I got for a great price on Ebay (no way I'd pay $500 retail for them!).

I was going back and forth on what size rear hub to buy. I emphasized wanting to build a 'light' touring bike for a reason. As someone pointed out, I already have a loaded touring bike. I finally closed my eyes and pulled the trigger on a road hub. The bottom line was quit simple. Money. I wanted to use what parts I already have. For 2 years I've been trying to find the right bike for the 36H Open Pro rims. MTB hub on an OP rim didn't seem sensible. I also have an Ultegra RD and 9 spd 105 12-25 cassette to use as a temp. Current crank notion is Sugino XD 48/36/24. I know Sugino recommends a 113 BB for road, wouldn't 110 be better?

I know Sugino recommends a 113 BB for road, wouldn't 110 be better?

Might be better for grinding the teeth on the chainrings against the frame... :D

Seriously though: why do you think 110 would be better? Do you need a 3mm narrower Q-factor in order to pedal comfortable? Will your front derailleur not shift to the outer chainring with the wider BB?

My version

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_3482-1.jpg

It has a rear rack just not installed on this newly built pic.

' still debating about which fenders to use.

Might be better for grinding the teeth on the chainrings against the frame... :D

Seriously though: why do you think 110 would be better? Do you need a 3mm narrower Q-factor in order to pedal comfortable? Will your front derailleur not shift to the outer chainring with the wider BB?

I was thinking the same thing. I've read other posts about people trying to get the shortest BB for better Q-Factor. This Q-Factor thing seems way overrated and depending on body type. 113 works for me as far as I know. Just thought I'd ask.

That's a nice 520! What brakes are you using and how do you like them?

my version:

older setup
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/SJZZMKPYV2I/AAAAAAAAFxk/sfGj12wjwAA/s800/IMG_5240.JPG

newer setup
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/SttcJffVsAI/AAAAAAAANs0/h-rzO8uiaBc/s800/IMG_9412.JPG

Wow! What a nice set-up. If only I could afford a IF frame. What kind of crank is that?
my version:

older setup
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/SJZZMKPYV2I/AAAAAAAAFxk/sfGj12wjwAA/s800/IMG_5240.JPG

newer setup
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/SttcJffVsAI/AAAAAAAANs0/h-rzO8uiaBc/s800/IMG_9412.JPG

I’m starting to round-up the parts. It seems like it is going to be a mutt of a bike.
2 areas I haven’t decided on yet-


Brakes: I’d like a low-profile cantilever, preferably in black. I haven’t found many good reviews of the Cane Creek/Tektro ones so have discounted them. This a ‘light’ duty bike, so I’ve discounted anything heavy duty like high-profile cantis or V-brakes. Right now I’m looking at vintage Shimanos or Suntour XC.


Bars: I want drop bars. I have Randos on the 1000 that I like, but I’m shying away from the standard Nitto Randos or noodles. Has anyone used the Salsa Woodchippers? I like the style of them, but am concerned about the angle of the levers. I like riding on the hoods, with such an extreme angle, it seems that you would be grabbing them painfully on the corners.

Wow! What a nice set-up. If only I could afford a IF frame. What kind of crank is that?

TA Carmina, 94 bcd double. love it.
thanks... was a labor of love. worked many an hour doing carpentry and other tasks at the lbs to offset the cost of the frame.

I’m starting to round-up the parts. It seems like it is going to be a mutt of a bike.
2 areas I haven’t decided on yet-


Brakes: I’d like a low-profile cantilever, preferably in black. I haven’t found many good reviews of the Cane Creek/Tektro ones so have discounted them. This a ‘light’ duty bike, so I’ve discounted anything heavy duty like high-profile cantis or V-brakes. Right now I’m looking at vintage Shimanos or Suntour XC.


Bars: I want drop bars. I have Randos on the 1000 that I like, but I’m shying away from the standard Nitto Randos or noodles. Has anyone used the Salsa Woodchippers? I like the style of them, but am concerned about the angle of the levers. I like riding on the hoods, with such an extreme angle, it seems that you would be grabbing them painfully on the corners.

WTB Mountain drops are similar, but I don't think the angle is quite as big. I have them on my Vaya and really dig em.

That's a nice 520! What brakes are you using and how do you like them?

Avid Shorty 6.

I like 'em. It works just fine.

WTB Mountain drops are similar, but I don't think the angle is quite as big. I have them on my Vaya and really dig em.

I looked them up and liked them. Unfortunately, they will not accommodate bar end shifters

In my head, I'm building a really nice bike as I post. In reality, I haven't torqued a bolt yet. However, I have spent some money. With many things in life, compromises have to be made. I don't know if this is going to turn out to be a nice bike or a mutton chop, but I'm trying to stick to the original idea of a 'sport' touring bike. I guess some would call that a randonneur bike I don't know. Here's what I have or is on the way, someone stop me if I've slipped off the edge somewhere.

Rims: 36H Open Pro
Rear Hub: Ultegra
Front Hub: XT (I know, I know, it was the first buy when I thought of going MTB)
Cassette: 105 12-25
Shifters: DA Barcon
RD: Ultegra
FD: Tiagra
Headset: Cane Creek

Brakes: I’d like a low-profile cantilever, preferably in black. I haven’t found many good reviews of the Cane Creek/Tektro ones so have discounted them. This a ‘light’ duty bike, so I’ve discounted anything heavy duty like high-profile cantis or V-brakes. Right now I’m looking at vintage Shimanos or Suntour XC.




I use both Suntour XC Pro brakes(low profile) and some Shimano BR-MC70 cantilevers(wide profile). Vintage Shimano Canti's however, don't stick out as much as Tektro CR720's. I wouldn't discount using them.

The Suntour stock pads are very good. I tried replacing with the Kool-stop black and salmons, but they both squealed, so I went back to the ST pads. Bigger pads are not necessarily better. Finding the XC Pro in black though, may be expensive.

Finding good low profile brakes is hard enough, black ones makes it even harder! It depends on your budget. In fact, other than Paul$$, I don't know of any new ones under $100. I'm excluding the Tektro,Origin8 and Cane Creek copy cats, which seems to be on the low end. Or Avid.

You should be able to find some vintage low-pro XT canti's though, if you have the patience for ebay.

I looked them up and liked them. Unfortunately, they will not accommodate bar end shifters

Not completely true. I think older bars had the problem, but I have 9 speed Dura Ace bar ends on my WTB mountain drops at this very moment.. They fit just like any other bar.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MmLgZUapzi0/TBIj7021VhI/AAAAAAAAAdk/68UWpCYpR3s/s1600/2010-06-09-15.03.18-763307.jpg
Gore Canyon - I very nearly got blown off the road here - no guardrail, either...

Not completely true. I think older bars had the problem, but I have 9 speed Dura Ace bar ends on my WTB mountain drops at this very moment.. They fit just like any other bar.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MmLgZUapzi0/TBIj7021VhI/AAAAAAAAAdk/68UWpCYpR3s/s1600/2010-06-09-15.03.18-763307.jpg
Gore Canyon - I very nearly got blown off the road here - no guardrail, either...

That is good. I'll take another look. I went to their website when they were mentioned above and they had a footnote at the bottom saying that they wouldn't work for barends. Can anyone else confirm that they will?

... Can anyone else confirm that they will?

Good call. That photo looks 'shopped. ;) :D