Advocacy & Safety - What is it with pickups?

No science here but it seems to me that pickups make up the majority of cars that crowd me, send me obscene gestures, or yell at me. What's up with that?

My theory is that most people that drive pickups are hard working, under paid types who are peeved that they are working while you are having fun riding a bike. Thoughts?

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.

Most of the harrassment I have received has been from the inhabitants of pick-up trucks, but these represent a huge share of the vehicle market here, so I won't venture to make a correlation. Nor will I speculate on the psychology involved other than to suggest that Viagra might be a more cost-effective solution to their problem.

The prevalence of gigantic pick-ups and SUVs in use for personal transportation - the vast majority with a single occupant and no payload - is a testimonial to the power of advertising and to the unsurpassed gullibility of the North American public. Strange that the media has yet to correlate this disgusting and irresponsible waste of natural resources with the current environmental disaster in the Gulf.

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.

I also think that everyone had decided that the original poster was a baby ;)

I drive a pickup. Im hard working. Im underpaid. Im peeved when I see people riding and having fun. Then I change lanes to not crowd them. Sometimes give them thumbs up and a honk or talk to them at the stop light to tell them 'be careful out there bud'. Then I go home and get on my bike and am harrassed mostly by stuck up people in really nice cars or idiots in POS cars. Rarely a truck. My wife also drive a large 4x4 and NEVER gets close to cyclists or motorcyclists. Shes scared to death of not seeing them.

I get treated the same by all manners of vehicles. I've even been yelled at by a lady riding a scooter. Apparently, she couldn't handle the fact that she had to share the lane with vehicles that she parks her 49cc scooter next to...

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.

Same here.

Thoughts?

I think your post says more about you than about the drivers of pickup trucks. Don't feel picked upon. I think the same of anyone who disparages huge groups of their fellow humans.

I drive a pickup and DO get peeved when there is a pack of cyclists on a two lane road with a no passing lane riding 4 abreast and they refuse to budge. I am always polite and careful, and very aware of where my mirrors are (big RV mirrors used to be my pet peeve)

I drive a pickup and DO get peeved when there is a pack of cyclists on a two lane road with a no passing lane riding four abreast and they refuse to budge.OK, and it's likely illegal for them to do that, but how is it easier for you to pass 4 cyclists riding abreast than four cyclists taking the lane (i.e. in the middle of the lane) but riding single file?

(I assume that's your beef, that they're difficult to pass? If it's something else, let me know.)

If there's a single cyclist taking the lane, you can probably share the lane with him somewhat as you pass (and still leave at least 3') but even so -- you're still going to be partially in the lane for oncoming traffic, so I'm not sure how it's really so much easier to pass that single cyclist than it is to pass four riding four abreast -- and it'll be harder if you've got four cyclists riding single file.

I am a bit skeptical of four abreast in a single lane, however -- unless the lane is extra wide, there's not usually space to maintain that. They may ride three abreast most of the time and occasionally hit four abreast when somebody changes position, but even so ... four abreast tends to spill out into other lanes.

No science here but it seems to me that pickups make up the majority of cars that crowd me, send me obscene gestures, or yell at me. What's up with that?

My theory is that most people that drive pickups are hard working, under paid types who are peeved that they are working while you are having fun riding a bike. Thoughts?

I think the tendency to see cyclists as "Them" has the most to do with it. I tend to ride in spandex (though not full team kit) and almost never had problems. But one memorable time was when in a different (though still local) area. Working to lower middle class, right by the soccer fields. A few very rude drivers. I have a feeling if I had a soccer jersey on instead of a cycling top things would have been different.

Shouldn't have been tied to I'm having fun and they weren't as most of the vehicles seems to be comming or going from the fields.

I'm going with the regional thing. For me, Porsche drivers are the worst.

The problem with pickups, like every other vehicle, is a frequent one -- the loose nut behind the wheel.

Wild speculation here but....

In the US most pickup trucks are used as personal transportation vehicles, not as commercial cargo vehicles. The safety and environmental regulations for light trucks are significantly looser for light trucks than they are for cars. If you choose a pickup over a car as your personal transportation then you may not place as high of a value on your own, or societies health and safety as someone who chooses a car. If that is the case, it is understandable that you would get less respect from pickup drivers than from the average motorist - they respect themselves less too.

[NSFW?]
http://www.customduallytruckaccessories.com/images/truck-nutz-dodge.jpg

http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/wp-content/uploads/truck-nutz.jpg

No science here but it seems to me that pickups make up the majority of cars that crowd me, send me obscene gestures, or yell at me. What's up with that?

My theory is that most people that drive pickups are hard working, under paid types who are peeved that they are working while you are having fun riding a bike. Thoughts?


I'm going with the regional thing. For me, Porsche drivers are the worst.

i must really be a prick, i have one of each...

for what its worth, there are quite a few porsche owners that are cyclists. there have been a fair amount of "post your ride" and tour de france threads on the largest porsche forum. i would venture to guess they talk about their bikes more than people talk about their cars over here.

as far as the truck thing goes, that must be a regional thing. here in iowa trucks/suvs are very prevalent and i find most vehicle classes feel the same about the bikes on the road. (we have nothing for paved shoulders or bike lanes in this state)




Wild speculation here but....

...they respect themselves less too.

i dont have to speculate to know that statement showed no respect

Well, having a pickup becasuse I am a volunteer member of a search and rescue squad and it is the most practical vehicle for this purpose for several reasons. (believe me, I would give my eye teeth to have a small fuel efficient truck like they have available in Europe. - but the dogs often need to be left in a vehicle and the most humane is the back of a pickup under a camper with the windows open). Then things just need to be towed like boats, trailers, etc.

So since I and Volunteer Fire Department folks (none of whom can run sirens) spend the bulk of our vacation time saving lives and training to save lives, I will not own your generalization.

Also, as a telecommuter, my carbon footprint is probably not that bad and allows me to justify a truck for its indended use. I think your generalization about those who drive trucks would be as bad as me generalizing that all bike riders are selfish and self-righteous.

Now my expectation for bikes is the same I have for any slow moving vehicle. When there are 20 cars behind you with no way around you, PULL OVER and let them get past. Do whatever you can to safely help the motorists get around you without getting creamed.

I went for years with only a bike, and it is just common courtesey. I have had my share of hostile redneck encounters but I think the best way around that is education and persistent good manners. Every time I see a bike rider break the law I get angry about it. I am totally sold on the value of bicycles in society for transportation and urge anyone who has not read it to read and old tract called Energy and Equity and by Ivan Illich- I believe we need solutions that work. I also believe that commuting needs trump recreational use.

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.
Very well said!!!! I agree.

Now my expectation for bikes is the same I have for any slow moving vehicle. When there are 20 cars behind you with no way around you, PULL OVER and let them get past. Do whatever you can to safely help the motorists get around you without getting creamed.

I went for years with only a bike, and it is just common courtesey. I have had my share of hostile redneck encounters but I think the best way around that is education and persistent good manners. Every time I see a bike rider break the law I get angry about it. I am totally sold on the value of bicycles in society for transportation....

Damned few places classify bikes as SMV's; that said, your specific scenario, and your answer, is correct. BUT, there are all kinds of OTHER situations for bikes in traffic -- almost infinite, in fact. So don't automatically relegate bikes to 2nd-class across the board just because they don't do many speed limits.

EDUCATION -- you are correct -- is critical. For cyclists, too. EVERYONE needs to know the realities.

The facts of life are that a crewcab pickup is probably the best all around do it all machine. Plus the fact that American pickups are far more reliable than a car. As to the thread remember a lot of young guys drive pickups, and they are just more irresponsible.

for what its worth, there are quite a few porsche owners that are cyclists. there have been a fair amount of "post your ride" and tour de france threads on the largest porsche forum. i would venture to guess they talk about their bikes more than people talk about their cars over here.

Yeah.. i'm just generalizing from my own personal experiences. I know that the majority of Porsche owners (or pickup drivers) probably don't have any issues. Just that the closest passes and most frightened for my life i've been while on my bike have mostly been from Porsches flooring it after a red light or being too impatient to wait for me to pass and turning in front of me. Luckily when they do that they get out of the way fast..but still... Once, a Cayman was flooring it past me with literally about 2 inches from my elbow to his mirror, nobody in the lane next to him.. that's a pretty ****** move.. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't mind owning a Porsche myself.

... I also believe that commuting needs trump recreational use.Do you put a sign in the window, "I'm commuting, so get the hell out of my way".


PS: How do you tell for sure between a recreational cyclist and a commuting cyclist?

As to the thread remember a lot of young guys drive pickups, and they are just more irresponsible.

Bingo. Throw what daggers you like, but I've had the same experience as the OP.

But FWIW, it's not the hostile drivers I worry most about ... it's the ones that are distracted.

Do you put a sign in the window, "I'm commuting, so get the hell out of my way".


PS: How do you tell for sure between a recreational cyclist and a commuting cyclist?

I guess I can't be sure that when there is a pack of 50 riders all clumped up holding up traffic for miles and refusing to let any cars through dressed in brighly colored clothes, that they are going to work? Come on now, all I would like to see is a little consideration - I don't speed past bikers, I don't honk, I give ample berth. Is it wrong to ask for consideration the other way.

395 is absolutely right. While a young irresponsible male may be just out to raise some hell and mess with people the distracted driver is by far the most dangerous driver on the road.

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.
A short search didn't find that thread. That's why I started this one. As for region, I'm sure it's a big part of it. I'm from the Seattle area and ride in the Snohomish Valley area. Lots of farms out there. It is all about the driver and pickups just happen to be the vehicle of choice out there.

Maybe regional differences, but around here there is no correlation between vehicle type and bad attitude of the driver

There was a thread in here about this same subject not long ago, and I believe the general consensus was that your thesis is incorrect.
A short search didn't find that thread. That's why I started this one. As for region, I'm sure it's a big part of it. I'm from the Seattle area and ride in the Snohomish Valley area. Lots of farms out there. It is all about the driver and pickups just happen to be the vehicle of choice out there.

I guess I can't be sure that when there is a pack of 50 riders all clumped up holding up traffic for miles and refusing to let any cars through ...

I am convinced that these people are why FL has a mandatory bike lane law taking effect Sept. 1st.

I guess I can't be sure that when there is a pack of 50 riders all clumped up holding up traffic for miles and refusing to let any cars through dressed in brighly colored clothes, that they are going to work? Come on now, all I would like to see is a little consideration - I don't speed past bikers, I don't honk, I give ample berth. Is it wrong to ask for consideration the other way.Sounds like quite an exaggeration.

The type of motorist that gives me grief is all over the board, sometimes it's a motorist in a pickup, then it'll be an Uncle Buck in his wide body land yacht, then somebody in a blacked out Euro sedan, and so on.

I drive a truck and it is so I can have a vehicle I can pick up plywood for boats, harvest trees for furniture and get machinery for stuff like building frames, while hauling around a wife and three daughter, sometimes on the same trip. I haven't particularly noticed that jerks are associated with one kind of vehicle or another. I don't know about the idea that truck owners are all poor slobs. A lot of trucks these days cost over 40K, and there are models into 60K and beyond. I don't know how the original demographic afords them at all.

(pictures not repeated)
Counterpoint :
[nsfw]
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iUis36Ojs-s/SD7SS13O6zI/AAAAAAAADDI/P29A8xcEtRc/s400/Naked-Vagina-Bike.jpg
(from this and other sites (http://www.madamelamb.com/2008/05/giant-vulva-bicycle-taxi-is-freudian.html))

Careful going into that rabbit hole, Alice.

Anybody under 30 in a pickup truck is probably a dick. It's like driving a hummer, it causes people to indulge their inner sociopath. Sure, there are counter-points and i'm not saying it's a universal law... but yeah. I've also noted it really doesn't matter who you are... roadie guy, commuter guy or 5yr girl with pink streamers pickup truck schmuck will harass you and tell you to get off the road. In my biased experience pickup-truck guy is right up there with white van man and the marathon commuter(If their car is a diesel watchout, they mean mileage and you better not slow them down). The cost of insurance for a <25 male on pickup truck is astronomical and for very good reasons.

On a side note of schadenfreude I watched a woman key "xxxx xxxxxxx is a ***" down the side of some pickup truck schmuck's pickup. I enjoyed that. :D

Ive had pickups since I was 16 and Ive never been an ass to cyclists. But maybe in Texas more people drive trucks than where you are?

I would say that pick-up drivers are more likely to yell stuff and race you to stop signs, followed by SUV women on cell phones then delivery trucks including FedEx and UPS who just act like I'm not there at all. And tourists who think the gutter is a bike lane.

Careful going into that rabbit hole, Alice.

Anybody under 30 in a pickup truck is probably a dick. It's like driving a hummer, it causes people to indulge their inner sociopath...

and what does this overgeneralization make you?


The cost of insurance for a <25 male on pickup truck is astronomical and for very good reasons.

one of the main reasons i bought my truck at 19 was because the insurance was one third the cost of several sedans i looked at.



Ive had pickups since I was 16 and Ive never been an ass to cyclists. But maybe in Texas more people drive trucks than where you are?

its the same here in iowa. i bet 70% of the office personnel at my employer drive trucks. most notably every mid and upper level manager is a pickup driver.

Now my expectation for bikes is the same I have for any slow moving vehicle. When there are 20 cars behind you with no way around you, PULL OVER and let them get past. Do whatever you can to safely help the motorists get around you without getting creamed.this is totally off topic, but motorists will never pull over, no matter how many cars they have behind them. Same for truckers. Pennsylvania is one of the very few states that treats bicycles as slow moving vehicles, and I must say I have never had 5 cars backed up behind.

And I also have to say that the people that harass you really aren't reacting to anything rational like a pack of cyclists. I could actually understand that to some degree. During the last run-in I had with a motorist, there was so little traffic he felt comfortable enough to stop in the middle of the roadway to have his little rant; there was no problem with traffic at all. He was in a cheap sedan.

I agree that there a disproportionate number of jerks are in pickups, but they definitely exist in other cars too. I've only been yelled at and verbally harassed by pickup drivers. A big rig and a bus (from my own University, what the heck guys!) tried to push me off the road, and a car drove straight at me in my lane just to see what I would do. Generalizing is generally a bad thing to do. There are plenty of decent people driving pickups, it's silly to say they're jerks, though I do notice you were careful enough to use the word "most". Kudos for that :)

Pickups? How about Dump trucks. Those are probably the worst for me. Commercial drivers of large vehicles seem to not like making the effort to move over or are just to impatient to wait until they can. or they think that because they are a "skilled" driver, it is "safe" for them to pass you closely. morons.

My feeling on pickups, around here at least is its not that they pass you any closer than cars any more frequently than cars, its that you notice it more because they are bigger and louder.

Pickups? How about Dump trucks. Those are probably the worst for me. Commercial drivers of large vehicles seem to not like making the effort to move over or are just to impatient to wait until they can. or they think that because they are a "skilled" driver, it is "safe" for them to pass you closely. morons.

My feeling on pickups, around here at least is its not that they pass you any closer than cars any more frequently than cars, its that you notice it more because they are bigger and louder.
I've had the same experience with commercial vehicles. I've been run off the road by trucks carrying hay before, twice on the same day. What the hay. Haha, my humor is just astounding

This thread is largely about social class, isn't it?

This thread is largely about social class, isn't it?

its about making uneducated stereotypes.

edit:

the irony is that these generalizations are biased on experiences of pickup drivers crowding and yelling at cyclists. how do they expres themselves? getting on a forum and calling most pickup drivers underpaid, dicks, and lacking self respect despite the fact that they are criticizing members of their fellow population. (cyclists)

way to take the high road.

I picked up on the "class" aspect of this thread as well, but It some areas it is hard not to notice certain "stereotypical" types of drivers. For the record I fall squarely in the Under paid labourer in a big pickup demographic, so I am in close contact with other members of this demographic and have had opportunity to discuss feelings towards cyclists among it. From what I can tell they aren't significantly different than any other groups. I maintain that short distance commercial drivers are probably the worst, but having ridden shotgun on many a short distance commercial trip, my read is it is not so much intent as it is ignorance of how passing as close as they do affects cyclists.

and what does this overgeneralization make you?



one of the main reasons i bought my truck at 19 was because the insurance was one third the cost of several sedans i looked at.




its the same here in iowa. i bet 70% of the office personnel at my employer drive trucks. most notably every mid and upper level manager is a pickup driver.

Way to take it all so seriously but, now that we're a the next level let me elaborate..

Pickup trucks are very expensive to insure around here(a major city) for a <25 male, the way they are marketed to the public attracts a certain type of person. Maybe in Iowa there are plenty of respectable pickup truck drivers, but around here there are too many macho types with too much to prove and not enough brains. These guys just love a chance to pick on the lowly, defenseless cyclist especially if you're a <25 male also. When i run into a <30 male driving a pickup i avoid eye contact, it's like dealing with a frighted animal... if you say hello they'll take it as an aggressive challenge - As funny as that sounds i'm not joking.

Nobody is saying you're the problem but, you'll be judged by the company you keep. I'd certainly never own a pickup unless it was for work.

Boy, you all really know how to read too much in to a thread. As starter of this thread I'm in the unique position to say what the author had in mind.

I just wanted to hear some anecdotes about the kinds of vehicles that give you trouble. Around here pickups seem to be the type of vehicle that scare me. I'm not trying to start a class war. Yikes!

Way to take it all so seriously but, now that we're a the next level let me elaborate..

Pickup trucks are very expensive to insure around here(a major city) for a <25 male, the way they are marketed to the public attracts a certain type of person. Maybe in Iowa there are plenty of respectable pickup truck drivers, but around here there are too many macho types with too much to prove and not enough brains. These guys just love a chance to pick on the lowly, defenseless cyclist especially if you're a <25 male also. When i run into a <30 male driving a pickup i avoid eye contact, it's like dealing with a frighted animal... if you say hello they'll take it as an aggressive challenge - As funny as that sounds i'm not joking.

Nobody is saying you're the problem but, you'll be judged by the company you keep. I'd certainly never own a pickup unless it was for work.

im not offended or bothered by the thread, i just found it hypocritical. "pickup drivers dont respect us"/"anybody under 30 in a truck is probably a dick"

the important thing you have to remember is the "company i keep" by driving a truck around here is upper level management, sales managers, and engineers. i also know the same can be said for areas of texas as i do a lot of business down there.

what i am saying is your stereotype probably is biased in truth, but only for a specific test area. outside of that test area you may find yourself with your foot in your mouth. i would say the majority of pickup drivers in north america live in areas where it is "normal" to drive a truck. you are biasing everything you know about pickup drivers on a small test area that is outside of "normal"

Boy, you all really know how to read too much in to a thread. As starter of this thread I'm in the unique position to say what the author had in mind.

I just wanted to hear some anecdotes about the kinds of vehicles that give you trouble. Around here pickups seem to be the type of vehicle that scare me. I'm not trying to start a class war. Yikes!

im not trying to tell you what you had in mind. i was just expressing my opinion on what the thread morphed into.

im not offended or bothered by the thread, i just found it hypocritical. "pickup drivers dont respect us"/"anybody under 30 in a truck is probably a dick"

the important thing you have to remember is the "company i keep" by driving a truck around here is upper level management, sales managers, and engineers. i also know the same can be said for areas of texas as i do a lot of business down there.

what i am saying is your stereotype probably is biased in truth, but only for a specific test area. outside of that test area you may find yourself with your foot in your mouth. i would say the majority of pickup drivers in north america live in areas where it is "normal" to drive a truck. you are biasing everything you know about pickup drivers on a small test area that is outside of "normal"

There is nothing hypocritical about this thread.

I don't really care about your class statements... around here high level people people drive Bentleys and Aston martins. Class doesn't interest me in the case. What interested me is that a Bentley is not promoted as a macho mans car, it is marketed as a gentleman's car. I hardly doubt a man in a Bentley would get up to the threatening behavior a 25yr old kid in a pickup would.

My stereotype is workably accurate thank you, i won't be changing it either. I take the very existence of this thread as proof that there is something about pick-up truck drivers and their behaviour to cyclists that is not agreeable, if you search around bike forums you'll find many other cyclists have very specific problems with pick-up truck drivers. I'm sure the people who actually need a pick-up don't care about the marketing nonsense and want to get work done without trouble. However, the people like your upper management perhaps, have swallowed the marketing hook line and sinker. This means when they're in their pick-up truck they are the epitome of "rural western" machismo and won't stand any challenge to their road authority by a lowly cyclist.

Maybe it is you who is living in the fishbowl with regards to pick-up trucks.

around here, if you want to experience road rage, go out and ride on the road at the same time Saturday morning as a middle aged male who has to go to work because his boss is a jerk. Black Audi is the vehicle of choice.

Two things:

Class is not necessarily determined solely by income.

All generalisations are false.

There is nothing hypocritical about this thread.

hypocritical - professing feelings or virtues one does not have; "hypocritical praise"



I've also noted it really doesn't matter who you are... roadie guy, commuter guy or 5yr girl with pink streamers pickup truck schmuck will harass you and tell you to get off the road.

ha·rass (h-rs, hrs)
tr.v. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es
1. To irritate or torment persistently.
2. To wear out; exhaust.
3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.


pickup truck schmuck.



Anybody under 30 in a pickup truck is probably a dick. It's like driving a hummer, it causes people to indulge their inner sociopath.


around here there are too many macho types with too much to prove and not enough brains


it's like dealing with a frighted animal