Fifty Plus (50+) - Attempt to ban bikes from St Charles Mo area roads

Need support from those of you in the St Charles county (Mo) area. Rest of the country, take note. First Colorado, now Missouri...
http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.php/topic/23158-proposed-county-ordinance-to-ban-bicycle-on-hwy-d-hwy-dd-hwy-z-hwy-f-hwy-94/page__pid__132243#entry132243

Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.

The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.

I suppose that it's cheaper to keep people from using the roads than it is to make the roads safe.

I drive a school bus on all of the roads that are involved in the proposed ban. DD in particular scares me because it's fairly high speed traffic, there is no shoulder at all and significant drop offs over much of it's length. There is a project on the books to install shoulders on the roads in question but they are only planning to widen them by a couple of feet.

Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.

Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.

There's others. St Claire County in Illinois has banned group bicycle rides on the Ridge road between Columbia and Valmeier (not particularly heavily traveled) for years.

Did you post this in the Mountain-Plains Regional subforum? A lot of under 50 riders will read it there.

The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.

This was due to a death on Ragbrai, and the ensuing litigation.

In these times where "green" is a frequently used buzzword how could they attempt this? I am truly at a loss for words.............................

snip...

Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.

Bingo. If the purpose was safety, then it would include pedestrians and farm implements- all slow moving traffic. I applaud the SOS group for getting shoulders approved, but the interim solution is NOT banning cyclists, it's reducing the speed limit in areas of reduced visibility or passing distance.

If the purpose was safety, they should ban cars. After all, how many cycle fatalities didn't involve a car?

Massachusetts doesn't do a heck of a lot right, but they got the bike laws right. (My opinion. Your mileage may vary.) The law clear states that bicycles may use all public ways, except for divided express highways that have been posted by the department of public works.

A few years back, some whiners in la-de-da Concord wanted bikes banned from certain roads. Apparently, they didn't like having to slow down in their over-priced SUV's. (intentional dig there) They hit a dead end when they were told what the law is. Bear in mind, Concord has always been a very popular place for cyclists, with its decent roads, New England postcard scenery, and lack of beer joints and shopping malls. But, the attitude toward cyclists started changing, I'd say about ten years ago. Using the political power that the affluent can buy, they kept the minuteman bikeway from being extended past Bedford to Concord, which was the original plan.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off on a rant there. Carry on. Feel sorry for cyclists in MO. They are in for what will probably be a tough fight.

I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.

I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.

Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/stcharles/article_cdc4c2a0-8bb1-11df-931d-0017a4a78c22.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/stcharles/article_602384e2-8ecd-11df-8fc8-0017a4a78c22.html

Another St Charles County commissioner wants to expand the proposed ban to include highways B,C,H & V in the northeastern part of the county. The roads in that part of the county are straight, low traffic, table-top flat and are much more heavily used by bicyclists. It's also the location of the "Monday Night Bike Ride" which has been featured in Bicycling Magazine and occasionally has been part of the RAAM route.

Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?
Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.

I'm just telling you what I've heard, so don't anyone get all pissy with me.

According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space. In other words, many people in St. Charles think that bike riders are road hogs. During the newscast they showed a reporter standing along Hwy 94, in a section that had a very wide shoulder. According to the report, drivers often come up on groups of cyclists who take up space in the lanes of the highways. To me, the report was implying that bike riders could ride on the shoulders of these roads, but they choose not to.
That's how the newscast came off to me.

Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.

Then take it they can't close a road to car traffic simply to allow bicycles access? Because the VC code does say what vehicles can travel on what public streets. Low speed vehicles are restricted as are trucks in some areas. Bicycles are normally restricted on freeways though there seems to be some exceptions on some freeways.

According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space.

I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.

I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.

It should be simple enough to enforce traffic obstruction laws without a total (and presumably unconstitutional) ban. Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints. If a shoulder is wide, smooth, and clean, I'll willingly use it.

I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.

Why Monday nights?

Why Monday nights?

It's the Monday Night Ride out of Mueller Park. Some Mondays (in addition to a number of smaller, slower groups) will attract a peloton of 50 or 60 riders. There aren't any rules and some riders have been known to cross the center line and do all manner of other things that I don't approve of. Fortunately, my wimpyness prohibits me from riding with that bunch so it's not a big problem for me. If you're not used to riding in close quarters, slower riders can become unnerved when they brush your elbows as they swoop past with no warning.

Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints.As long as they are willing to ban the motorist that slow cyclist during the motorist large group drives, called rush hour.

If bikes are outlawed, only outlaws will have bikes.

Think about it.

Someone should introduce a bill to ban cars and trucks due to the dangers they pose to cyclists, pedestrians and their drivers and passengers.

If a shoulder is wide, smooth, and clean, I'll willingly use it.

Your willingness aside, the white fog line that separates the traffic lane from the shoulder is legally considered the same as a curb. So expecting bikes to ride in the shoulder is exactly the same as expecting bikes to stay off the road. Is that the precedent you want?

The local Riverfront Times did a nice "follow the story" segment on this, getting the councilman to admit that his vastly-inflated figures were almost all car accidents, and that the proposed ban would be largely unenforceable:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/07/councilman_joe_brazil_st_charles_bicycling_death_trap.php

Your willingness aside, the white fog line that separates the traffic lane from the shoulder is legally considered the same as a curb. So expecting bikes to ride in the shoulder is exactly the same as expecting bikes to stay off the road. Is that the precedent you want?

I would be very happy to have a wide shoulder to ride on. That beats fighting vehicles for space on a shoulder-less 2 lane anyday.
I wouldn't say it's "exactly the same as expecting bikes to stay off the road." It is common sense and common courtesy to use a paved shoulder.

If a shoulder is wide, smooth, and clean, I'll willingly use it.

Highways D, DD, F & Z have no shoulder, and I mean none at all, for most of their length. Worse, the roads have been overlayed repeatedly over the years. Consequently, in many places there are significant vertical drop offs if you drift off of the pavement. That's the real issue - driver inattentiveness and cars running off of the road.

I didn't witness the accident that was reported by the councilman's daughter so I have no way of knowing whether or not there was a bicyclist involved - but I doubt it.