Advocacy & Safety - CM Loses Frivolous Lawsuit, Ordered to Pay 16K in court costs

Heh!


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/the_cycle_of_justice_ZBAQBkZ1OXfdU4HL5gKzqL

Why cant they just stop at the red lights and stay in 1 lane?

Isn't trying to sue CM akin to trying to sue "rush hour?"

Isn't trying to sue CM akin to trying to sue "rush hour?"

You have it backwards Gene. Some cyclists, bike clubs, etc., were suing NYC to run CMs without permits. Consequently, the judge said that the lawsuit was frivilous and fined the plaintiffs.

Good, morons

You have it backwards Gene. Some cyclists, bike clubs, etc., were suing NYC to run CMs without permits. Consequently, the judge said that the lawsuit was frivilous and fined the plaintiffs.

OK I misunderstood the headline... but again isn't CM supposed to be "unorganized" just as rush hour, and thus require no permits? I mean if CM needs permits, so does any other crowd in NYC... be they on foot, or car, or indeed, bike. In a way I agree with the judge... this is a frivolous lawsuit... as frivolous as "herding cats." For specific groups (some cyclists, bike clubs) to try to act on behalf of CM is akin to say a cadre of auto dealers acting on behalf of "rush hour."

Why cant they just stop at the red lights and stay in 1 lane?

Yeah, why can't they just stay in the bike lane??

The bike lane isn't enough, don't forget, they're vehicles too! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....!

Yeah, why can't they just stay in the bike lane??

Why can't the cars just stay in the parking lots - we pay good money for all those parking spaces - then they want to go on the roads too!

Fizzail.

So the adjective-laden article in the ever classy NY Post didn't answer any of my questions ... like exactly who was doing the suing? This strikes me a bit like saying "Bicycle users sue ..." considering that neither group has any defined membership.


The car-hating anarchists responsible for those anti-social Critical Mass bicycle swarms got a useful lesson last week -- courtesy of a refreshingly no-nonsense federal jurist.

So the adjective-laden article in the ever classy NY Post didn't answer any of my questions ... like exactly who was doing the suing? This strikes me a bit like saying "Bicycle users sue ..." considering that neither group has any defined membership.

It's pretty obvious the people doing the suing are the people who got slapped with the court costs. They and their lawyers broght a frivolis suit so they have to pay court costs.

OK I misunderstood the headline... but again isn't CM supposed to be "unorganized" just as rush hour, and thus require no permits? I mean if CM needs permits, so does any other crowd in NYC... be they on foot, or car, or indeed, bike. In a way I agree with the judge... this is a frivolous lawsuit... as frivolous as "herding cats." For specific groups (some cyclists, bike clubs) to try to act on behalf of CM is akin to say a cadre of auto dealers acting on behalf of "rush hour."

It's not though. It's not a spontaneous thing that just happens like a crowd of pedestrians on a sidewalk, it's an organized event, literally a bicycle protest.

As such, it's required to be permitted.

It's not though. It's not a spontaneous thing that just happens like a crowd of pedestrians on a sidewalk, it's an organized event, literally a bicycle protest.

As such, it's required to be permitted.

Rush hour is an organized event too... Is a permit required?

It's pretty obvious the people doing the suing are the people who got slapped with the court costs. They and their lawyers broght a frivolis suit so they have to pay court costs.

What's not obvious is: who are these "they" you speak of? The Post only says they're evil bicyclists, put in their place by "a no-nonsense federal jurist."

Critical Mass is a group ride that starts around 5 to 6 pm at a certain place on the last Friday of every month. Some individual who probably rides with Critical Mass sued. But the group doesn't exist when the ride is over, doesn't have membership, doesn't take action apart from the ride itself, doesn't have a board to act on its behalf, etc. Confusing an individual rider with the whole group is an error.

Rush hour is an organized event too... Is a permit required?

Really? What organization organizes and controls rush hour? I'm moderately certain I've joined no "rush hour" club, never received an email or phone call from the "rush hour" event planners, telling me where and when I need to be for the "official" rush hour.

It's pretty obvious the people doing the suing are the people who got slapped with the court costs. They and their lawyers broght a frivolis suit so they have to pay court costs.
What's not obvious is: who are these "they" you speak of? The Post only says they're evil bicyclists, put in their place by "a no-nonsense federal jurist."

No, it's obvious who "they", kabersch is talking about, are. His comment makes who "they" is very clear.

"They" are the people who brought the suit against the city. The suit lists the plaintiffs (that's how these things work). (The NY Post does not list the names of the six bicyclists.)


Judge Lewis Kaplan slapped the Five Borough Bicycle Club and six bikers for filing a frivolous lawsuit


Confusing an individual rider with the whole group is an error.
Who is doing that?

A bunch of people ("they") who brought a suit are being fined for that suit being "frivolous".

The title of this thread is "CM Loses Frivolous Lawsuit, Ordered to Pay 16K in court costs." So to answer "Who is doing that," I suppose it would be Agent Cooper, who started this thread, and gave it its title.

11139780]It's not though. It's not a spontaneous thing that just happens like a crowd of pedestrians on a sidewalk, it's an organized event, literally a bicycle protest.

As such, it's required to be permitted.

There is no route nor leader. One night it may be a demonstration and another night it's something else. It is what the people make it to be when they decided to show up to ride. I don't see who would or should get a permit

Really? What organization organizes and controls rush hour? I'm moderately certain I've joined no "rush hour" club, never received an email or phone call from the "rush hour" event planners, telling me where and when I need to be for the "official" rush hour.

I've ridden in a few CMs, but I have also never joined a CM club nor received an email or phone call from any CM planners telling me where and when I need to be for the "official" CM. In fact, just like your participation in rush hour I usually just happen to be riding to my destination when I come upon CM. If I am in the mood I might alter my route to enjoy the company of fellow cyclists, or not. I think Gene is right, CM is akin to rush hour and it seems to be rather pro-car (synonym for anti-bike) to require a permit for one and not the other.

On a side note, what's up with all the anti-bike NY Post garbage I have been encountering lately? I guess it is good news. If we are no longer being ignored victory must be at hand.

On a side note, what's up with all the anti-bike NY Post garbage I have been encountering lately? I guess it is good news. If we are no longer being ignored victory must be at hand.

According to a survey conducted by Pace University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_University) in 2004, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).
-- Jonathan Trichter (June 16, 2004). "Tabloids, Broadsheets, and Broadcast News" (http://appserv.pace.edu/emplibrary/pace_poll_061604.pdf) (PDF). Pace Poll Survey Research Study. http://appserv.pace.edu/emplibrary/pace_poll_061604.pdf. Retrieved June 7, 2007.

So the adjective-laden article in the ever classy NY Post didn't answer any of my questions ... like exactly who was doing the suing? This strikes me a bit like saying "Bicycle users sue ..." considering that neither group has any defined membership.

Exactly, were the bicycle groups suing for themselves or for CM? Given that there is supposedly no organization to CM, no one in charge how can "CM" sue any city or police force on it's behalf? And given the way that the (I think) new ordnance has been written that any more then 50 riders, or walkers or roller bladers, or what have you gather together that they need a parade permit. What happens if there is an organized group on the public streets with 45 - 50 people and while they're out riding another 10 people seeing the group ride decide to join up. Being as it is on the public streets the organized group can't really tell the 10 or so new people that they can't ride with them. So how can that 50 or more people and you need a parade permit be enforced?

Really? What organization organizes and controls rush hour? I'm moderately certain I've joined no "rush hour" club, never received an email or phone call from the "rush hour" event planners, telling me where and when I need to be for the "official" rush hour.

What organization organizes CM? Is there a specific club? Where can one join up? Is there a card?

As far as "rush hour," it is probably more organized than any pseudo CM event... as nearly every commercial company opts to end the day at 5:00 PM and send their hordes out to the roads.

I've ridden in a few CMs, but I have also never joined a CM club nor received an email or phone call from any CM planners telling me where and when I need to be for the "official" CM. In fact, just like your participation in rush hour I usually just happen to be riding to my destination when I come upon CM. If I am in the mood I might alter my route to enjoy the company of fellow cyclists, or not. I think Gene is right, CM is akin to rush hour and it seems to be rather pro-car (synonym for anti-bike) to require a permit for one and not the other.


As always, we’ll meet at Public Square in front of the Terminal Tower at 6pm, then take off promptly at 6:30pm. The group will swing by Public Square again at 7pm to pick up stragglers and people who have to work a little later.

Looks pretty organize (http://shawnmariani.com/ccm/2010/06/reasons-to-join-us-tomorrow/)d to me.

What organization organizes CM? Is there a specific club? Where can one join up? Is there a card?

No card. But you can get stickers (http://shawnmariani.com/ccm/2010/07/cleveland-critical-mass-stickers-please-vote/).

r.

"They" are the people who brought the suit against the city. [U]The suit lists the plaintiffs

Judge Lewis Kaplan slapped the Five Borough Bicycle Club and six bikers for filing a frivolous lawsuit



Wait a second! I don't believe it was CM who launched this lawsuit because the Five Borough Bicycle club did it before and lost! I can't believe they started a second lawsuit when they pretty much knew the outcome. I participate in FBBC rides and they are no critical mass. I can't see why they would go ahead with this lawsuit since we never get pulled over by the cops. The FBBC should have known better and now they are out of lot of money.

What organization organizes CM? Is there a specific club? Where can one join up? Is there a card?

As far as "rush hour," it is probably more organized than any pseudo CM event... as nearly every commercial company opts to end the day at 5:00 PM and send their hordes out to the roads.

I don't know about the CM in other cities, but here in St. Pete the St. Pete CM has a group at Yahoo. It sends out an invitation/reminder right before the last Friday of the month reminding them that the monthly CM ride is coming up. That does suggest some sort of organization to me. And I am sure that there are Yahoo Groups for CM rides in other cities as well. Also if I remember correctly, the St. Pete CM also has a MySpace page as well, and possibly a Facebook page, but I don't know that one for sure.

I don't know about the CM in other cities, but here in St. Pete the St. Pete CM has a group at Yahoo. It sends out an invitation/reminder right before the last Friday of the month reminding them that the monthly CM ride is coming up. That does suggest some sort of organization to me. And I am sure that there are Yahoo Groups for CM rides in other cities as well. Also if I remember correctly, the St. Pete CM also has a MySpace page as well, and possibly a Facebook page, but I don't know that one for sure.

Meanwhile the other road users have carefully synchronized their clocks, and have done it long before Facebook and Myspace... with their low tech result that they cause way more congestion than the monthly muckup by a few hundred cyclists.

Blaming CM for congestion is like blaming the sky for rain.

Meanwhile the other road users have carefully synchronized their clocks, and have done it long before Facebook and Myspace... with their low tech result that they cause way more congestion than the monthly muckup by a few hundred cyclists.

Blaming CM for congestion is like blaming the sky for rain.

Gene,

Actually I'm not disagreeing with you. And I do agree if a bunch of people happen to be riding bikes in the same general direction need to have a parade permit then so should rush hour traffic. Maybe someone should use that argument when cities try to require a CM ride to get a parade permit. I mean if a CM ride needs a parade permit then as you've suggested so should rush hour traffic. And we know that that is never going to happen. Or if people think that a CM ride needs to apply for a parade permit, then so should major sporting events, and concerts, etc. I mean don't they have way more then 50 vehicles leaving their venues, and don't they "mess up" traffic, more so then a CM ride ever could?

And the irony is that the person on a bicycle can actually make better time and/or be impeded by the very people who regularly complain about the delays that we cyclists are suppose to cause.

Sorry CM . LMAO:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

This thread is very enlightening in regards to the pro CM lobby. They love to talk about how CM as a movement is doing such wonderful things for cyclists, and are more than happy to take responsibility for this imaginary progress.

But when they are exposed for breaking the law and generally aggravating people, the talk changes to: "There's no CM to take action against because it doesn't exist" "It's just a group ride" "There is no such organization" "What's a CM ride?" "Never heard of it!"

Uh-huh. :rolleyes:

And if these "Dedicated Activists" in New York are asked to put their convictions where their wallet is and pony up to help pay off that 16 grand I'm betting it'll be the same story. "Uhh...Dude, what lawsuit?"

Gene,

Actually I'm not disagreeing with you. And I do agree if a bunch of people happen to be riding bikes in the same general direction need to have a parade permit then so should rush hour traffic. Maybe someone should use that argument when cities try to require a CM ride to get a parade permit. I mean if a CM ride needs a parade permit then as you've suggested so should rush hour traffic. And we know that that is never going to happen. Or if people think that a CM ride needs to apply for a parade permit, then so should major sporting events, and concerts, etc. I mean don't they have way more then 50 vehicles leaving their venues, and don't they "mess up" traffic, more so then a CM ride ever could?

And the irony is that the person on a bicycle can actually make better time and/or be impeded by the very people who regularly complain about the delays that we cyclists are suppose to cause.

Cool, we are in total agreement.

I think the issue at hand is how so many consider that "rush hour" is NOT some how "coordinated." It has been done this way historically for so long, folks just consider it "normal."

Now that all said, truth be told, I am not a fan of CM because of what it has become... a cycling free-for-all that has lost the original meaning of a bicycle "rush hour."

Theres definately a website for CM, a facebook, and a myspace. When you show up and its time to go, the same dude with a megaphone get on the bench and announces the route and we leave. From there, they block all intersections, take ALL lanes, drink beer while riding then throwing glass bottles on the side of the road, talk disrespectfully to motorists, give obscene hand gestures, stop at gas stations for more beer, urinate publicly, litter some more, block more intersections while blocking all lanes and then go to the bar. I go every month and this is the routine. Its basicly a parade, but the individuals make it more of a circus. I can only speak of Houston of course. My friends and I start with the group and break off after the hour at the gas station so the idiots can refuel.

My opinion - They need a permit. No group of people should be able to bypass laws in regards to stoplights without a permit. What qualifies them to 'cork' or what normal people call signalling traffic. A parade has someone that is trained in signalling. Not some punk that leans on the cars and talks garbage.

Critical Mass may have started with a good group but has been taken over by idiotic hipsters.

They also have no respect for the law but dont understand when the law has no respect for them. You just cant say " F U Pig!" and ride away after they try to pull you over lol what a fool.

160586

Theres definately a website for CM, a facebook, and a myspace. When you show up and its time to go, the same dude with a megaphone get on the bench and announces the route and we leave. From there, they block all intersections, take ALL lanes, drink beer while riding then throwing glass bottles on the side of the road, talk disrespectfully to motorists, give obscene hand gestures, stop at gas stations for more beer, urinate publicly, litter some more, block more intersections while blocking all lanes and then go to the bar. I go every month and this is the routine. Its basicly a parade, but the individuals make it more of a circus. I can only speak of Houston of course. My friends and I start with the group and break off after the hour at the gas station so the idiots can refuel.

My opinion - They need a permit. No group of people should be able to bypass laws in regards to stoplights without a permit. What qualifies them to 'cork' or what normal people call signalling traffic. A parade has someone that is trained in signalling. Not some punk that leans on the cars and talks garbage.

Critical Mass may have started with a good group but has been taken over by idiotic hipsters.

Exactly why it has lost it's original message... the antics you describe are totally anti-cycling promotion. This sounds more like a free-for-all event that should be constrained.

CM was supposed to be about "rush hour for cyclists" and how rush hour can be both effected and improved.

Critical Manners (http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-04-14/news/17240618_1_critical-mass-cyclists-red-lights) is leaning in the right direction and is working to maintain the original idea.

Critical Mass is a failure and embarrassment here. I still go though. Im guilty by association. But my friends and I are very courteous to motorists and abide by the law as often as possible. Ive heard someone somewhere started a 'courteous mass' but nobody showed up lol.

My opinion - They need a permit. No group of people should be able to bypass laws in regards to stoplights without a permit. What qualifies them to 'cork' or what normal people call signalling traffic. A parade has someone that is trained in signalling. Not some punk that leans on the cars and talks garbage.
I seem to remember some posting about this a few months ago.

I don't think the 5BBC filed a lawsuit just to be nice to CM. Now that the law has be effectively upheld, and since the NYPD can't be seen to enforce the law selectively, all bike events, club rides, team practices, etc are subject to requiring a parade permit. The way the law is written it could even apply to walking tours, funeral processions, school outing and many other gathering. Part of the complaint that groups have had is that the NYPD puts permit review and approval low on their priority list and applications can sit for months without action being taken. 5BBC is looking out for their own interests.

Right now the parade application is geared for real parades and is not really applicable to a big club bike ride. Maybe if they had a different class of application for these kind of events and reviewed it quickly, the local bike clubs could live with the rules.

This thread is very enlightening in regards to the pro CM lobby.There is no pro-CM lobby. Just individuals doing their own thing, which may or may not be similar to what other individuals are doing. Occasionally, you get groups who will support CM (or so they believe) on a particular issue (such as this case.)


"There's no CM to take action against because it doesn't exist" "It's just a group ride" "There is no such organization" "What's a CM ride?" "Never heard of it!"Nice strawmen!

Nobody said CM doesn't exist.
Yes, it's just a group ride.
Yes, there's little to no organization.
People who know about CM don't say "What's a CM ride?"

CM can't sue the city, just being a ride. But the law enacted to hit CM also affects other group rides and the Five Borough Bicycle Club sought to do something about it, and got dismissed out of hand.

The article made this a "CM gets spanked" story, but really, CM didn't have too much to do with this lawsuit.


Uh-huh. :rolleyes:Indeed.


And if these "Dedicated Activists" in New York are asked to put their convictions where their wallet is and pony up to help pay off that 16 grand I'm betting it'll be the same story. "Uhh...Dude, what lawsuit?"If they do, it'll be because that's the normal thing to do in such a case, not because it has any minor relation to Critical Mass.

CM is far too intangible to sue somebody. The group and individuals who sued did so on their own, and had to be far more tangible than CM ever was to do so, and so the court certainly does know who to go after. Though I would imagine that they'll appeal this ruling, and another judge may very well see things differently.

Wait a second! I don't believe it was CM who launched this lawsuit because the Five Borough Bicycle club did it before and lost! I can't believe they started a second lawsuit when they pretty much knew the outcome. I participate in FBBC rides and they are no critical mass. I can't see why they would go ahead with this lawsuit since we never get pulled over by the cops. The FBBC should have known better and now they are out of lot of money.

No, CM did not launch the law suit. Real people and a real organization (the club) brought the suit. CM doesn't exist except virtually.

Who knows why FBBC involved themselves! But they can't be fined unless they are named plaintiffs!


The title of this thread is "CM Loses Frivolous Lawsuit, Ordered to Pay 16K in court costs." So to answer "Who is doing that," I suppose it would be Agent Cooper, who started this thread, and gave it its title.
Then the title is technically wrong. The article makes it clear who "they" are but you have to read it.

How is NYPD currently enforcing the parade permit requirement, or how will they?

Are they ticketing cyclists for violating the normal rules of the road? This would make the most sense, because if there is no parade permit, they have no permit to violate the rules of the road.

Or, are they picking cyclists at random (whether they violate the normal traffic laws or not) and charging them with failure to obtain a permit? That would be appropriate grounds for a legal challenge.

Put simply, cyclists should defend their right to travel when and where they want, without a permit, as long as they obey the rules of the road. But they should not expect to be exempt from the normal traffic laws without obtaining a parade permit. It seems to me that many of the CM proponents keep confusing these points, and undermining the public perception and status of lawfully operating cyclists in the process.

I think the issue at hand is how so many consider that "rush hour" is NOT some how "coordinated." It has been done this way historically for so long, folks just consider it "normal."
Well, you can probably blame "rush hour" on the sun. Anyway, things that have ancient precedent have that precedent as sufficient justification.

CM rides are scheduled for an arbitrary time (why is the "last Friday in the month" particularly meaningful?) with the immediate purpose of being a nuisance.


There is no pro-CM lobby.
The FBBC and the six bicyclists who brought the suit are some sort-of "CM lobby".



But they should not expect to be exempt from the normal traffic laws without obtaining a parade permit. It seems to me that many of the CM proponents keep confusing these points, and undermining the public perception and status of lawfully operating cyclists in the process.
It seems pretty typical that the CM riders go through red lights. The NYPD can ticket them for that (and this should be easier than fining people for not having a permit).

The FBBC and the six bicyclists who brought the suit are some sort-of "CM lobby".Only in the sense that the specific goal (getting rid of this bad law) that benefits them also benefits the CM ride.

In the same way, I appreciate the NRA's work in protecting my right to bear arms, but I don't see them as a "Pro-Doug lobby". Ditto for the efforts of the EFF and ACLU.


It seems pretty typical that the CM riders go through red lights. The NYPD can ticket them for that (and this should be easier than fining people for not having a permit).Agreed. Though to be fair, other cyclists not part of a CM ride also go through red lights. (As do motorists, though they may do it somewhat less often.) CM rides just do it a bit more blatantly than most.

It seems to me that the police simply want to be able to nail the entire group without having to see them (individuals!) actually breaking a (legitimate) traffic law.

If they really do want to crack down on CM properly, they should get a bunch of bicycle cops and pick an intersection that the ride is likely to go down and wait. Videotape the ride going through, getting strong evidence of people running the light. (If the ride is big, at least part of it's going to catch the light being red.) Have each cop stop (no tackling!) one rider who they explicitly saw run the light and ticket then. Have them take pictures of each rider as they ticket them so they can be found in the video later if needed. Ideally, they won't concentrate on the end of the ride, even if the stragglers are easier pickings, because the experienced riders know to avoid the back -- picking randomly will tell the riders that nobody is safe if they break the law.

Lather, rinse, repeat at various intersections as soon as everybody is done processing the first one.

Do this a few times, and the riders will either 1) ride out of town or 2) start obeying the laws. Having video evidence of every rider ticketed will help reduce the claims of "it wasn't me!" and "the cop is lying!" If the police want to be real jerks, they could go after any "no more than two abreast" laws once there's no more red light runners, but that's a bigger can of worms.

If the police make up bogus charges, the ride will grow larger as people join knowing they can get off of any charges laid, but if the police stick to real offenses with video evidence I imagine the ride will get smaller as the word will get out that fighting this ticket isn't going to work.

No need to trample over our rights to travel, to assemble ... just enforce the existing laws!

Cool, we are in total agreement.

I think the issue at hand is how so many consider that "rush hour" is NOT some how "coordinated." It has been done this way historically for so long, folks just consider it "normal."

Now that all said, truth be told, I am not a fan of CM because of what it has become... a cycling free-for-all that has lost the original meaning of a bicycle "rush hour."

Exactly, just like there are so many motorists out there speeding, running red lights and stop signs that it also is taken as "normal" behavior, but let a cyclist do the same thing and you'd think we raped their virginal daughter or something.

Nor am I, as the one and only time I saw them headed back towards the Downtown area they were whooping and hollering and in general acting like jackasses. It would be nice if it could return to it's original meaning of as you pointed out a bicycle version of "rush hour."

Theres definately a website for CM, a facebook, and a myspace. When you show up and its time to go, the same dude with a megaphone get on the bench and announces the route and we leave. From there, they block all intersections, take ALL lanes, drink beer while riding then throwing glass bottles on the side of the road, talk disrespectfully to motorists, give obscene hand gestures, stop at gas stations for more beer, urinate publicly, litter some more, block more intersections while blocking all lanes and then go to the bar. I go every month and this is the routine. Its basicly a parade, but the individuals make it more of a circus. I can only speak of Houston of course. My friends and I start with the group and break off after the hour at the gas station so the idiots can refuel.

My opinion - They need a permit. No group of people should be able to bypass laws in regards to stoplights without a permit. What qualifies them to 'cork' or what normal people call signalling traffic. A parade has someone that is trained in signalling. Not some punk that leans on the cars and talks garbage.

Critical Mass may have started with a good group but has been taken over by idiotic hipsters.

If it's such a poor showing in the Houston area why do you take the risk of getting arrested by joining in?


They also have no respect for the law but don't understand when the law has no respect for them. You just cant say " F U Pig!" and ride away after they try to pull you over lol what a fool.

160586

Running away from the police is wrong, but at the same time common sense says (or should say) that if you are in doubt that the person behind you is a LEO to look for a well lit area with witnesses before pulling over. Even though saying "F U Pig" is offensive, rude, and disrespectful it is or should be protected under the 1st Amendment.

How is NYPD currently enforcing the parade permit requirement, or how will they?

Are they ticketing cyclists for violating the normal rules of the road? This would make the most sense, because if there is no parade permit, they have no permit to violate the rules of the road.

Or, are they picking cyclists at random (whether they violate the normal traffic laws or not) and charging them with failure to obtain a permit? That would be appropriate grounds for a legal challenge.

Put simply, cyclists should defend their right to travel when and where they want, without a permit, as long as they obey the rules of the road. But they should not expect to be exempt from the normal traffic laws without obtaining a parade permit. It seems to me that many of the CM proponents keep confusing these points, and undermining the public perception and status of lawfully operating cyclists in the process.

Those are all very good questions and good points. And sadly I don't think they stop to consider the overall effect that they are actually having on the perception of cycling and cyclists.

If it's such a poor showing in the Houston area why do you take the risk of getting arrested by joining in?



Running away from the police is wrong, but at the same time common sense says (or should say) that if you are in doubt that the person behind you is a LEO to look for a well lit area with witnesses before pulling over. Even though saying "F U Pig" is offensive, rude, and disrespectful it is or should be protected under the 1st Amendment.

It wasnt what he said to the cop. He was the 1 idiot that refused to stay in the right hand lane afterthe cop asked him several times to move over. That was his response. The cop asked him to pull over for being in the wrong lane. I go to the ride because my friends and I are slowly getting more people involved into what its supposed to be about. We talk to the motorists and thank them for their patience. Most of them actually enjoy the site as long as you are respectful and leave some lanes open.

Theres definately a website for CM, a facebook, and a myspace. When you show up and its time to go, the same dude with a megaphone get on the bench and announces the route and we leave.

Where do you live that Critical Mass leaves with a pre-planned route? That's a serious faux pas! Not having a route is the reason why a permit is impossible; it's also why the police have so much fun riding with and corking for us.


It would be nice if it could return to it's original meaning of as you pointed out a bicycle version of "rush hour."

It's unfortunate that some Critical Mass riders show up with beer cans and are generally obnoxious. But it's also inevitable to some extent. Blaming the entire concept for the few bad apples that find it alluring, would be like blaming cars-as-transportation for the few jackasses who buzz us closely :rolleyes: or the dog for its fleas.

I won't miss a ride, but I try to apply a little bit of peer pressure to help the idiots behave. In Seattle, most corkers tell the drivers they stop something along the lines of "Thanks for your patience. We'll be out of your way in a moment." A few of us tell cyclists with booze "Hey, you should save that for the party at the end of the ride." When cyclists have words with drivers ( it's not just coming from one direction, mind you ) some of us make a point of telling the cyclist "They're just trying to get where they're going, too."

I think this approach has a better chance than posting "I hate Critical Mass, because they ride in a way I don't approve" on the internet.

Where do you live that Critical Mass leaves with a pre-planned route? That's a serious faux pas! Not having a route is the reason why a permit is impossible; it's also why the police have so much fun riding with and corking for us.



It's unfortunate that some Critical Mass riders show up with beer cans and are generally obnoxious. But it's also inevitable to some extent. Blaming the entire concept for the few bad apples that find it alluring, would be like blaming cars-as-transportation for the few jackasses who buzz us closely :rolleyes: or the dog for its fleas.

I won't miss a ride, but I try to apply a little bit of peer pressure to help the idiots behave. In Seattle, most corkers tell the drivers they stop something along the lines of "Thanks for your patience. We'll be out of your way in a moment." A few of us tell cyclists with booze "Hey, you should save that for the party at the end of the ride." When cyclists have words with drivers ( it's not just coming from one direction, mind you ) some of us make a point of telling the cyclist "They're just trying to get where they're going, too."

I think this approach has a better chance than posting "I hate Critical Mass, because they ride in a way I don't approve" on the internet.


Thats exactly what we try to do in Houston. But Id say its 70% idiots that just get drunk and cuss motorists. I laughed my arse off when that cop car hit that cyclist though.

In Seattle, it's 5 to 10 % of the riders who cause 99 % of the problems and bad attention. ( Jerks tend to be more salient than normal people. ) That's at the beginning of the ride; they almost never finish. These are also the riders who try to get the group to stop and get off the bikes, so they can drink ... typically when no one else is willing to stop, some folks splinter off at a park somewhere.

I think it's unfortunate that we attract these people, but we can't turn them away. I see these people as a social problem in general, and not very particular to Critical Mass. And, on the other hand, at least up here, most riders come in part because of the "bicycle rush hour" thing and in part to be social with a lot of other riders, see some weird bikes, and so on.

yeah this group here wastes an hour at a gas station to beer up. They are also jerks to the cashier and other shoppers and anyone that wants gas. They wouldnt even let a guy out that was there before we pulled in. That poor dude, it took him (no exaggeration i promise) 25 minutes to get out of the parking lot because they didnt want to make space for his truck because something about a carbon footprint. lol so they let it idle forever. But I think over time as we reach out to more people it can become better.