Professional Cycling For the Fans - Contador a winner, but never a champion

What a cowardly move to take advantage of mechanical problems to run away from your competition. Contador will always be remembered for such self-centered moves. Who would want to win by beating someone's chain?

He might win, but he'll never be a champion.

I'm not a contador fan, but you are a troll.

He's not going to win....AS will put time on him Thursday

he wasn't going to let menchov and sanchez up the road. schleck would have done the same. it's racing...andy already got a gift on stage 2

I disagree with the Op. What was he supposed to do, stop and wait while Menchov and Sanchez flew away?

So do you think the same thing about them?

Game on.

What a cowardly move to take advantage of mechanical problems to run away from your competition. Contador will always be remembered for such self-centered moves. Who would want to win by beating someone's chain?

He might win, but he'll never be a champion.

It is not that black and white. He did sit up for a moment when he realized what had happened but then Sanchez and Menchov decided to use the opportunity to attack. Had Alberto waited he could have lost too much time to those two riders which are too dangerous in GC and the final ITT. AC cannot afford to let Menchov get within 1 minute of him. The other GC guys are riding too strong and too close.

It is not that black and white. He did sit up for a moment when he realized what had happened but then Sanchez and Menchov decided to use the opportunity to attack. Had Alberto waited he could have lost too much time to those two riders which are too dangerous in GC and the final ITT. AC cannot afford to let Menchov get within 1 minute of him. The other GC guys are riding too strong and too close.


Incorrect....AC attacked not SS or DM.

Wow, most excitement I've seen in a long time.

French Tv say that said that Contrador was in the right to make the move, chains falling and flats are bike racing.

Personally I think Contrador should of waited, then won the tour on cycling merit like I know he can.

I do not believe it was a clear cut issue of AC attacking the mechanical. He did need to mark Sanchez and Menchov. Also, AC was chasing Schleck's move at the time the mechanical. The real problem was not getting the chain back on in a timely manner. Those extra seconds were the difference between Schleck catching back up or not.

I can't wait for the Spoiler Police.

I can understand going after Menchov and Sanchez, but then he started driving on the pace himself, clearly deciding to take advantage

I can't wait for the Spoiler Police.

1 CONTADOR Alberto (ASTANA
2 SCHLECK Andy (TEAM SAXO BANK) + 00' 08"
3 SANCHEZ Samuel (EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI) + 02' 00"
4 MENCHOV Denis (RABOBANK) + 02' 13"

French Tv say that said that Contrador was in the right to make the move, chains falling and flats are bike racing.
.

What the hey do the French know?

Whatever.... He was always going to win the tour barring bad luck. He hasn't had any. Schleck did. Armstrong did also even though he as never going to be a contender. The sad part is that there is no drama left in the tour, we can't even fantasize about somebody else winning.

What the hey do the French know?

Well, there was that Iraq deal....remember when they didn't go?

Incorrect....AC attacked not SS or DM.

And when he realized it was a mechanical sat on the wheels of those 2 who drove the pace to the top.

SS and DM were putting valuable time into their competitors and AC couldnt ask them to give that back because AS had a mech.

Well, there was that Iraq deal....remember when they didn't go?

oh great....

P and R in 3,2,1....

Whatever.... He was always going to win the tour barring bad luck. He hasn't had any. Schleck did. Armstrong did also even though he as never going to be a contender. The sad part is that there is no drama left in the tour, we can't even fantasize about somebody else winning.

It's entirely possible that Schleck will put a big dent in Contador tomorrow and thursday, Contador probably wouldn't have done this if he was feeling super confident and now Andy is anger-boosted to boot.

Could be nothing but drama (here's hoping)

And when he realized it was a mechanical sat on the wheels of those 2 who drove the pace to the top.

At first that's what he did, but then he went back to the front and kept driving all the way to the finish

I do not believe it was a clear cut issue of AC attacking the mechanical. He did need to mark Sanchez and Menchov. Also, AC was chasing Schleck's move at the time the mechanical. The real problem was not getting the chain back on in a timely manner. Those extra seconds were the difference between Schleck catching back up or not.

THIS.

Schleck made the move which forced everyone else to counter - at that point it's "game on". Unfortunate mishap but too bad. What's fair and sportsmanlike with 50km to go is not the same as what's fair and sportsmanlike with 10km to go.

Conta probably didn't realize what had happened, or how much of an effect it would have until he already had 30 seconds on Schleck. Looked like a simple botched shift or something at first. (Actually my first thought was broken crankarm.)

BTW, I love that commercial where Andy and Alberto are riding trainers and trying to outdo each other with their wattage numbers, climb times, animal wrestling etc. First time I saw it was this morning.

Schleck was launching an attack that appeared to be opening a gap on Contador. Attacking when he drops his chain under those circumstances is definitely not sporting. If it had occurred behind, oh well. But when the yellow jersey is showing strength and aggression, to attack a mechanical is without honor,.

All three riders (Contador, Menchov, and Sanchez) should be ashamed of themselves. It wasn't sporting, and it would not have happened if any single one of them sat up and said to wait.

It is not that black and white. He did sit up for a moment when he realized what had happened but then Sanchez and Menchov decided to use the opportunity to attack.You need to look at the video again. The rider that was quickly closing on AS's attack was -Vino- NOT AC. AC, Sanchez & Menchov were all about 6-7 bike lengths behind (slowly countering AS's move). Vino was about 2-3 bike lengths behind when AS's rear wheel jumped & he immediately slowed (cadence and speed). Vino immediately sat up. AC then dropped the hammer from a few bike lengths back & blew by everyone and kept the attack up until the summit. IMO it was extremely clear that he saw the mechanical and -initiated- the counter attack (standing & attacking hard, not just sitting and pedaling by).

Schleck was launching an attack that appeared to be opening a gap on Contador. Attacking when he drops his chain under those circumstances is definitely not sporting. If it had occurred behind, oh well. But when the yellow jersey is showing strength and aggression, to attack a mechanical is without honor,.

All three riders (Contador, Menchov, and Sanchez) should be ashamed of themselves. It wasn't sporting, and it would not have happened if any single one of them sat up and said to wait.

here's a 2003 new york times article that explains it best. definitely not cool. the mj is afforded certain considerations in this race. contador had the weight to stop menchov and sanchez and should have told them to ride tempo until schleck was back.

"But when Lance Armstrong caught his handlebars on a fan's tote bag and crashed to the pavement last month during the 15th stage of the Tour de France -- a crucial climb to the Pyrenees ski village of Luz-Ardiden -- Armstrong's rivals slowed down and waited for him to recover, forsaking the chance to leave him behind.
At the time, race fans heard much about cycling's first unwritten rule: Thou shalt not ride away from the race leader when he is on the ground, stopping to relieve himself, or at other unsporting moments. Commentators agreed after the race that all of Armstrong's closest rivals appeared to heed the rule, including Jan Ullrich, who at the time trailed Armstrong in the overall standing by a mere 15 seconds.
But by doing so, Ullrich and the others not only allowed Armstrong to catch up. They also gave him a chance to win the stage -- and arguably the Tour itself, both of which he did. Ullrich finished second, for the fifth time over all and the third time to Armstrong"

I'm not a contador fan, but you are a troll.

don't understand. why was this person a troll for bringing up ac's attack when the maillot jeune's chain came off? it's a very relevant topic. there's a reason contador was booed by the crowd when he was on the podium getting the mj.

Schleck was launching an attack that appeared to be opening a gap on Contador. Attacking when he drops his chain under those circumstances is definitely not sporting. If it had occurred behind, oh well. But when the yellow jersey is showing strength and aggression, to attack a mechanical is without honor,.

All three riders (Contador, Menchov, and Sanchez) should be ashamed of themselves. It wasn't sporting, and it would not have happened if any single one of them sat up and said to wait.

I've a question for you guys.

If the HTC train is on the front of the peloton with 2 K to go, and Cav throws a chain, should everyone sit up and wait for him?

Also, I seriously doubt that if Alberto would have sat up, that Sanchez and Menchov would have waited.

don't understand. why was this person a troll for bringing up ac's attack when the maillot jeune's chain came off? it's a very relevant topic. there's a reason contador was booed by the crowd when he was on the podium getting the mj.

We're always a bit suspicious when we see a thread like this started by someone who has a grand total of one post on BF. I've verified to the best of my ability that the OP is not a sock.

If the HTC train is on the front of the peloton with 2 K to go, and Cav throws a chain, should everyone sit up and wait for him?

No, the GC is different, for sprinters or just the stage win in general it's not practical or necessary to wait imo.

Andy Schleck: " I lost yellow today! shiit happens but the race is not over yet!!! I'll be back!"

Schleck made the move which forced everyone else to counter - at that point it's "game on". Unfortunate mishap but too bad. What's fair and sportsmanlike with 50km to go is not the same as what's fair and sportsmanlike with 10km to go.



agreed. when you hit the decisive section in a race, all bets are off. can you imagine cancellera and AS waiting for any of the GC contenders if they had flatted on those decisive cobblestone sections? no way. when andy attacked, he put everyone in a counter/ attack/ counter mindset. AC responded, albeit a little late, but he was flying up to AS when AS dropped his chain. its entirely possible that AC did not realize the mechanical b/c he was looking ahead and focusing on a potential counter. but regardless, at that point the race was on!

definitely tough luck for AS today, but he lucked out back in stage 2 when the race was neutralized to his benefit. i admire his fighting spirit and how he valiantly chased back, but i'm not sure i quite believe him when he says he would not have raced that way. good to see him attacking but with the long descent to the finish, i'm not sure this was the best stage for him to gain time on contador. even if he managed to drop everyone, they (sanchez, menchov, AC) would almost have certainly caught him on the descent to the finish. AS needs to wait for the last mountain top finish to try and really gain time ahead of the ITT. if he really is the strongest climber, he still has a shot at this thing. but of course just a little bit more tough now having dropped this extra time.

also, as many have pointed out, could have been a rider shifting error or poorly tuned/ adjusted bike. i'm sure the saxo mechanics are feeling the heat. this just points out that every small detail from bike set up to shifting on the road/ inclines are so so important.

Just for fun, imagine the reverse scenario - Schleck attacks his small group but before there's much of a gap Conta drops his chain and can't respond. Does sportsmanship require Schleck to nullify his own move?

Also - what if Schleck's attack had him 30 seconds up the road when he buggered up his drive train... Conta et al should give him a 30 second head start once he gets it back together? How would it be sporting to take back the 30 seconds but no more than that?

It's about the yellow jersey. Schleck, in yellow, was riding strongly and aggressively. He was just then attacking, and putting the hurt on Contador and the others.

To deliberately attack the yellow jersey under those circumstances is not in keeping with the traditions of the TdF.

Armstrong waited for Ullrich.

We're always a bit suspicious when we see a thread like this started by someone who has a grand total of one post on BF. I've verified to the best of my ability that the OP is not a sock.

sorry if i'm really clueless here, but suspicious of what? of them being a troll? the thing is the post wasn't an inflammatory one so how do you tell a troll apart from a new member. i was just shocked to see that, that's all, and i appreciated the thread.

Just for fun, imagine the reverse scenario - Schleck attacks his small group but before there's much of a gap Conta drops his chain and can't respond. Does sportsmanship require Schleck to nullify his own move?

Admittedly, that's a question that'll never be answered. However, there's something about Andy Schleck that leads me to believe that he'd have followed tradition and backed off.

In the five years I've been seriously following the Pro Tour, I've discovered a lot of little unwritten rules that are quaint, archaic . . . . . . . . . and makes the sport so damned enjoyable to follow. And I really regret it when the modern spirit of 'win at all costs' takes over, as it takes something from the enjoyment of the race. Contador's definitely not a traditionalist. He's in it to win. Any (legal?) way possible.

He might win, but he'll never be a champion.

Alberto Contador.

Grand Tours

Tour de France

General classification (2007, 2009)
Young rider classification (2007)
3 individual stages, 1 TTT stage (2007, 2009)

Vuelta a España

General classification (2008)
Combination classification (2008)
2 individual stages (2008)

Giro d'Italia

General classification (2008)



You could be too late.

Armstrong waited for Ullrich.

Was that wehen Ullrich ran off the road? In my mind if you screw up and launch your bike into a gully you should be attacked.

There are some folks on here that could really benefit from the use of a DVR and or the knowledge of how to use one. I went back and watched this multiple times in slow mo.

1. Schleck's chain came off for no apparent reason. He didn't touch a shifter.

2. Vino was first to attack and Contador followed right behind him.

3. Other's followed them.

There is no doubt in my mind that both Astana riders witnessed the mechanical and pounced on the chance to attack. High def and my DVR have convinced me of this. Nothing else.

Armstrong waited for Ullrich.

yes, he did. and ullrich and the other gc contenders waited for la when he was the mj and fell.

andreas kloden tweeted: Was'nt à nice Move from Alberto on this moment. But this is cycling now :-(

sorry if i'm really clueless here, but suspicious of what? of them being a troll? the thing is the post wasn't an inflammatory one so how do you tell a troll apart from a new member. i was just shocked to see that, that's all, and i appreciated the thread.

There is a long and storied history of contention that surfaces in racing threads while the TdF is in progress. There are several former members who repeated have demonstrated that they don't play well with others - especially here. It's just a matter of prudence that we check when seeing someone new to the forums starting a thread on something that is controversial - to try to protect ourselves from having things spiral out of control.

There is a long and storied history of contention that surfaces in racing threads while the TdF is in progress. There are several former members who repeated have demonstrated that they don't play well with others - especially here. It's just a matter of prudence that we check when seeing someone new to the forums starting a thread on something that is controversial - to try to protect ourselves from having things spiral out of control.

i guess you guys are doing a good job because this has been a relatively civil board, which i prefer. it has shocked me some of the vitriole on some other boards. don't understand adults calling each other names just because they have different favorites. that said, how do you not scare off a new member? i'm glad no one called me a troll when i recently joined haha :)!

I've a question for you guys.

If the HTC train is on the front of the peloton with 2 K to go, and Cav throws a chain, should everyone sit up and wait for him?

Also, I seriously doubt that if Alberto would have sat up, that Sanchez and Menchov would have waited.

I think i can explain the difference. The General Classification contenders are primarily sorted out by this time. The Tour de France is a race that is 20 stages and will cover a total distance of 3,642 kilometres. Being an incredible feat to cover that distance in that time, it probably became obvious to the riders 90+ years ago that it would be a shame to have one little incident like a flat tire or a chain falling off, cost you the entire chance at winning the entire event.

The chances of having such an incident in that length of time are tremendous. Knowing that, if everyone always attacked, how often would you actually end up with the best rider winning the Tour de France. You would end up with a lot more riders with good luck winning instead of having the best riders win.

yes, he did. and ullrich and the other gc contenders waited for la when he was the mj and fell.

andreas kloden tweeted: Was'nt à nice Move from Alberto on this moment. But this is cycling now :-(

It is cycling now which is a shame. Expect them to wait if contrador has a mechanical on an important climb?

'let me cast your mind back and I can't remeber exackly where is wis, was, but it was on a mountain like this where Jan Ullrich had a flat tyre on bottom of the climb. He was a challanger I think to Lance Armstrong at the time, and he actually he waited, armstrong waited for Jan Ullrich to get back in the race situation

You know in the sport of professinal cycling there is always payback time you can never burn your bridges, never make enemies.' - 2003 quote

The chances of having such an incident in that length of time are tremendous. Knowing that, if everyone always attacked, how often would you actually end up with the best rider winning the Tour de France. You would end up with a lot more riders with good luck winning instead of having the best riders win.

More than that, the sportsman courtesy usually doesn't affect stage results or GC results - it's unsportsmanlike to attack on a mechanical with 50km to go because the guy is going to catch up anyway and you're just being a prick and rubbing his face in it. When the final move is on the gloves are off - everyone understands this; the disagreement here is whether or not they had reached that point. It's debatable.

Just ask Lance or Vino if Contador has any conscience or sense of fair play. Attacking teammates, or when a mechanical happens is par the course for AC. Contador continued to attack all the way down the hill even though his radio had to tell him what actually happened. Having half the crowd booing you while you are putting on the YJ must sting a little.

Did those of you saying that contador was following base your comments on that the commentators were saying or did you just watch the race highlights?

AC attacked the whole way up the climb, over the top and then and only then let SS take over because he is a way better descender. when on the flats including the run in to the finish AC continued to push the pace.

I agree it's racing but he shouldn't have done it and he should have controlled to the other that were just responding to his attack.

I think i can explain the difference. The General Classification contenders are primarily sorted out by this time. The Tour de France is a race that is 20 stages and will cover a total distance of 3,642 kilometres. Being an incredible feat to cover that distance in that time, it probably became obvious to the riders 90+ years ago that it would be a shame to have one little incident like a flat tire or a chain falling off, cost you the entire chance at winning the entire event.

The chances of having such an incident in that length of time are tremendous. Knowing that, if everyone always attacked, how often would you actually end up with the best rider winning the Tour de France. You would end up with a lot more riders with good luck winning instead of having the best riders win.

I most certainly understand all this, but I'm not seeing this as being all black and white. What are the odds of having a mechanical at a decisive point on a decisive stage with five riders present, each having his own motives? Surely, Saxo didn't sit up when Chavanel had to change bikes twice on stage three (yes, I know he's not a serious contender, and he was already behind). I don't think there's a line that can be drawn that everyone would agree to.

Replace chain problem with flat. Does AC wait then also? You know, wait until AS gets a wheel change or a new bike? This little bugger rarely gets a break, does he. I think he's superb. He knows how to win.

There is no doubt in my mind that both Astana riders witnessed the mechanical and pounced on the chance to attack. High def and my DVR have convinced me of this. Nothing else.
Yep. AC got out of the saddle and started hammering when he saw Schlek slow down and look at his chain. That gave him a big shot of adrenalin after Andy was dropping him. He blew by everyone, the others would have waited if it wasn't for him. He played the actor when he looked back in "confusion" after passing him. Classless.

I most certainly understand all this, but I'm not seeing this as being all black and white. What are the odds of having a mechanical at a decisive point on a decisive stage with five riders present, each having his own motives? Surely, Saxo didn't sit up when Chavanel had to change bikes twice on stage three (yes, I know he's not a serious contender, and he was already behind). I don't think there's a line that can be drawn that everyone would agree to.

I agree that it's not as black&white as for example when Ullrich stopped for Armstrong (although that also took balls considering how badly Armstrong had kicked his ass previously), but it's pretty dark imo.