Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Building a LD cycling bike from an older Raleigh International

ok, so I have this 1974 Raleigh international that is in great shape. I am looking to put clincher wheels on it, bar tape, fenders, some bags and it should be good to go. Can anyone point me to some web sites for supplies and such? I am familiar with Velo Orange. Is that all I should need or do you suggest some other places to look?

Also, what is a good tire and wheel to go with? I am used to general road cycling and it seems randonneuring bikes use a wider tire. I am thinking of going with 650 wheels rather than 700 to lower the bike a bit. What width does one usually use for long distance cycling?

Any other suggestions are welcome.

700c will be much easier to fit to your bike. 650 rims will create brake reach fit issues.

Does it still have the NR high flange hubs?

For clincher rims, probably the Mavic MA2 would be ideal, but I don't know where to find such a thing. A reasonable substitute, in my opinion, would be Sun M13II for a narrower rim or CR-18 for a wider rim. For up to 28mm tires, the M13 would probably look best. They're nice and shiny and not so different in style from the Mavic MA2 or something like the Rigida Score. Niagara sells the M13 rims and Niagara and Treefort sell the CR-18 rims. So do lots of other folks.

My wag is that that frame should be able to handle reasonably wide 700c tires (32mm, probably) and there should be plenty of clearance with the Weinmann center pull brakes. For tires, unless you are going to be traveling on unpaved/very rough roads, you could use either Panaracer Pasela TG in 28mm or Schwalbe Marathons in 28mm. Marathon Plus or Supreme are other options, but they get pricey. Other tires from Specialized and Continental are good, from what I read, but Marathons and Pasela TG are what I have experience with. I think the Schwalbes have tougher sidewalls. Niagara and Treefort are places to check. For Schwalbe Marathon tires, check out Wiggle.

I just bought some SKS plastic fenders from Amazon (free shipping). I like them.

For bar tape and sundries, I typically order them with other things to save on shipping. Wiggle, Treefort, and Niagara all have good prices on this stuff and you can save on shipping. For example, if you order more than about $75 from Wiggle, you get free shipping. So, a couple Schwalbe Marathons at about $24 each and then some bar tape and some rim tape and you're close. Maybe a couple tubes will put you over.

edit: I agree about staying with 700c rather than 650B. Look at how much extension there already is with the rear brake and figure out if going from 622 mm to 584 mm will work -- maybe, but I doubt it.

Sounds like a very comfortable starting point. I use an older steel frame with similar geometry. Equipment and tire size that works for folks is all over the map. 28mm seems a popular tire width, but there are some who do exceptionally well on 23's.

I like the concept of 650b wheels, but getting brakes to work (like has been pointed out) is a very real consideration. Find a shop, or a friend who has some experience with 650b and run your idea by them to see if they have a good solution.

If at all possible I'd stick with 700's. The 650's may give you a little better stand over room but if you're out on a randonee and you shred a tire or you need tubes because you got 8 flats on a 200k (happened to me) it's going to be very difficult for anyone to help you because you are going to be using "out of the norm" stuff. It would suck to DNF a ride because of an inner tube or tire. Of course you could carry a spare tire and spokes and extra tubes and...many people do. ;)


btw, I started randoneuring on a mid 70's Peugeot and it was a great starter bike. I'm sure you'll have many memorable miles on your Raleigh

Thanks a bunch for the insight gents. I had not thought of the brake reach issues. You guys have given me a lot of things to consider and I appreciate it.

'81 Panasonic. 66cm. I got a sunlite rando type front rack for $25, stuck it on with some p clamps and some ingenuity, and stuck a small insulated lunch bag on it. I ran 23's -- Schwalbe Blizards, which are kevlar lined slicks with 85psi max.

The most important thing was replacing the 6 speed freewheel rear wheel with a shop built wheel. new rim, but a used 7 speed freehub and a new cassette.

if you keep the bike 700c, you may well be able to use your old wheelset as a spare. My Panasonic can switch between 27" and 700c without anything more than moving the brake pad.

ok, so I have this 1974 Raleigh international that is in great shape. I am looking to put clincher wheels on it, bar tape, fenders, some bags and it should be good to go. Can anyone point me to some web sites for supplies and such? I am familiar with Velo Orange. Is that all I should need or do you suggest some other places to look?

Also, what is a good tire and wheel to go with? I am used to general road cycling and it seems randonneuring bikes use a wider tire. I am thinking of going with 650 wheels rather than 700 to lower the bike a bit. What width does one usually use for long distance cycling?

Any other suggestions are welcome.

I'm going to assume that you don't care about trying to keep the Raleigh in "original" condition but rather are intent on making it the best rando bike it can be. That should be a very good rando bike indeed, because the Reynolds 531 frame is very nice to ride (at least judging by my '82 Trek 614 with similar tubing and geometry). The swoopy fork offset should make the International very stable with a front load so that you can easily carry a handlebar bag. I've been wanting to buy an International to use for rando for several years now, but they are so collectible that the price is a little above the range I'd feel comfortable with, given that I already have several rando-suitable bikes!

Ultimately, I think the biggest decision is whether to stick with the current rear triangle spacing or spread it so that it can take a modern cassette wheel. The advantage to spreading is that the modern cassette wheels give you a much stronger axle as well as a more versatile set of gearing choices. The axle is stronger because the support points on the bearings are out at the ends of the axle, where on a freewheel hub, the drive-side support is about 1/3 of the way in from the end of the axle. Over the years, I've broken or bent several freewheel axles, but have never even heard of someone bending/breaking a cassette axle. As to superior gearing, in the old days, to get gearing that was adequate both for severe hills, and also had reasonable steps between the gears, people ran granny-and-a-half-step gearing. That makes for a lot of double-shifts where you have to shift both the front and back at once to get a nice gear. Nowadays, with 9-speed cassettes, you have a lot nicer mix of low-enough gearing with close-enough steps between shifts. I'm not strong enough to go with a compact double in the front, but some randonneurs like that setup. I have a Sugino 24/36/46 crankset paired to a 9-speed 11-32 or 11-34 cassette, all shifted with down-tube shifters and a rear Deore derailleur. The 24x32 gear is low enough that I can comfortably spin up almost any grade that I encounter, or if I'm tired of spinning I can downshift three cogs and stand.

A lot of people like the Velocity rims for randonneuring. Mavic quality seems to have suffered in recent years. For the rear rim, you can get an off-center rim that has the spoke holes drilled off-center, thereby helping to keep spoke tension more even between the drive side and the non-drive-side. I think mine are Aerohead's, but the Synergy might be better with a wider tire.

For tires, I run $15 Panaracer Pasela 700x32 tires or $60 Grand Bois Cypres 700x30 tires. The Grand Bois are much nicer and somewhat faster, but so expensive that I reserve them for events where I care more about the higher speed than the higher price. Keep in mind that tires with any kind of flat-resistant kevlar belts are going to tend to be slower rolling -- that's why I go with the Pasela not the Pasela TG. Your road conditions may be different than mine, but over the last three years with these tires I've gotten about a half dozen flats, riding 17000 Km of rando events, mostly on the east coast (VA,MD,PA,WV), in France (PBP), and one 600Km in Seattle. I know there are places where the prevalence of goathead thorns would make you want flatproof tires even at the expense of slower rolling speed.

If you wanted to go with 650B wheels, you could run even wider tires. But I think you'd have a very hard time finding brakes that could handle the long reach. Tektro makes some really-long-reach brakes (556's?) but I doubt they'd be long enough. At least, by my measurements, they wouldn't be long enough for me to retrofit 650B's onto my Trek 614. The only brake I know of that would do the job is the Mafac Raid brake that is sometimes available on EBay for around a couple of hundred dollars.

FWIW, I have not spread the rear triangle on my Trek 614, but that's just because it is my daily commuter and the cost of a broken axle is not a big deal, and I don't need the extra gearing for my commute--it's got a 7-speed freewheel, which is enough. I did ride the 614 on a 200Km permanent the other day and it is a nicer ride than my Rambouillet or my Gunnar Sport. Maybe one of those will move to daily commuter and the Trek will get its triangle spread so it can run modern wheels and it'll become my regular rando bike.

I think I am going to try keeping the bike as original as I can, at least with the original campy components. They just work so smooth I hate to get rid of them. That and I am not comfortable with messing with the spacing on the frame.

When I go to get the wheels built I am keeping the original campy hubs for that reason. Should I ask for regular steel spokes or bladed spokes? Would one be preferable to the other for longer rides and commuting about town?

I think I am going to try keeping the bike as original as I can, at least with the original campy components. They just work so smooth I hate to get rid of them. That and I am not comfortable with messing with the spacing on the frame.

When I go to get the wheels built I am keeping the original campy hubs for that reason. Should I ask for regular steel spokes or bladed spokes? Would one be preferable to the other for longer rides and commuting about town?

I had new Sun CR-18 rims installed on my period High-flange hubs when I rebuilt the wheels on my 1973 Paramount. Bladed spokes are not going to be an option.

I also kept the 120mm spacing on this bike. You might consider a modern compact crankset or even a triple for long distance riding. OE Campy Record gearing has a very limited range. My Paramount still has the OE 52t/49t half step crankset. It's great to look at but worthless on a long, hilly ride.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/HHH2010007.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/HHH2010008.jpg

I run an old Sugino touring double on my distance bike. The result is a 2 x 6 configuration in a dropout spaced at 126mm. My low is only a 34/32, which makes some of the local hills a challenge, but might be ample for where you'll do much of your riding.

My rando bike is a 1974 Raleigh Pro, and I love it. It rides great and it's very comfortable. An International should be a quite nice rando bike.
The one caveat about keeping the original components is that you might find the original gearing inadequate. Many people prefer compact double cranks or triples, wide-range MTB cassettes, etc, for long rides with big hills where they've probably got at least several pounds of gear on the bike. Of course, it's a matter of personal preference and YMMV.
If you do switch to modern drivetrain components, you will have to find a solution to the dropout spacing. Your frame has rear dropouts spaced at 126mm, and modern road hubs are 130mm, although you can spread a steel frame to accommodate 130mm hubs. Mavic OpenSport (formerly MA3) or OpenPro rims would be good choices; they're good quality, reasonably light, and easy to find. I use 25mm tires, which are easy to find and plenty comfortable. In general, the switch to 650B is advocated for the ability to use wider tires, not for lowering the bike (which it doesn't do, or at least not very much, if you use wider tires that lift it back up again). Stand-over clearance is often minimal or non-existent on bikes like this, but as long as you can get on and off the bike without falling over, it's nothing to worry about.
Have a look at www.sheldonbrown.com for more info on updating older frames.
I don't have any original components on my Raleigh; I prefer the shape of my favorite modern handlebar model, I prefer the shape of Shimano aero levers to the older brake levers, modern brakes have better stopping power, I've switched to 165mm cranks, the original headset and bottom bracket are long worn out, and the bike is set up as a fixed gear, etc. But bars, levers, drivetrain setup, gearing, etc, are a matter of taste and preference; if you're comfortable with the components you've got, there's no reason to change them.

Gents, I have another question for you concerning freewheels...

My current setup is a 6 spd with something like 11-21 cogs. I am afraid that hills may be a problem. I live in north central Indiana so there are no huge climbs but still I would like to put something on the original Campy Nuevo record hubs that will be a little more hill friendly.

Here is some info on a freewheel they sell at Rivendell. Would any of you know if I could use either of these freewheels with the Campy Nuevo Record hub and rear derailer? If so, would it be worth it to change them out. I am pretty new to cycling and this whole gear thing is still all voodoo to me.

Freewheel #1 : 13-15-18-21-24-28
Freewheel #2 : 14-17-20-24-28-32

Thickness (measured from the outside of the high cog to the outside of the lip of the thread body, beyond the low cog) of each freewheel is 31mm

Thread body is 12mm deep

the NR rear derailleur was supposed to be able to take 28 teeth. I'm really suspicious of that spec though. It is fairly comfortable with 24 teeth. I did a full SR series and an R-12 in hilly Pennsylvania with a low gear of 44-25, so depending on how strong you are you might be ok with 42-24.

My Paramount came with a 14-26 five speed freewheel on its Record hubs as OE. It was good, but I would not go larger.

Be careful of the spacing between cogs on your Freewheel. This is a half-step gear design. You can end up with a bunch of redundant gear combinations, reducing you 10 speed to a 7 speed with 3 redundant gears.

What chainwheels will you use on the crank?

Michael

TA makes a 41 tooth chainring for NR 144 bcd cranks. Might be worth considering. I was thinking about it for my bike, but I made myself a new frame and put a compact crank on it so the issue is moot.