Laggard
07-19-10, 05:46 PM
Bahamontes
Pantani
Herrara
Coppi
Gaul
Pantani
Herrara
Coppi
Gaul
Professional Cycling For the Fans - Top-5 Climbers Ever
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OrionKhan
07-19-10, 05:55 PM
Where would you place Richard Virenque in that mix? (7 TdF KOM's for those that don't know) I know, I know....a doper. But who isn't?
USAZorro
07-19-10, 05:57 PM
Bahamontes
Pantani
Herrara
Coppi
Gaul
By including Gaul and Pantani, you leave the door open to other people who, let's be diplomatic here, "stretched" the rules.
Without doubt, the most spectacular climbing exhibition I've ever seen was Basso in the 2006 Giro. That said, seeing how he's climbing now, he fails to make my list due to inconsistency. Ricco and Rasmussen are similarly "extraterrestrial". Hinault and LeMond were both also outstanding climbers, though perhaps not "pure" climbers". Hard to find serious fault with your list though.
Pantani
Herrara
Coppi
Gaul
By including Gaul and Pantani, you leave the door open to other people who, let's be diplomatic here, "stretched" the rules.
Without doubt, the most spectacular climbing exhibition I've ever seen was Basso in the 2006 Giro. That said, seeing how he's climbing now, he fails to make my list due to inconsistency. Ricco and Rasmussen are similarly "extraterrestrial". Hinault and LeMond were both also outstanding climbers, though perhaps not "pure" climbers". Hard to find serious fault with your list though.
Laggard
07-19-10, 06:01 PM
Where would you place Richard Virenque in that mix? (7 TdF KOM's for those that don't know) I know, I know....a doper. But who isn't?
Thought about it. He seemed more of an opportunist though. Never was sure if he was as good a climber as his KOM jerseys indicate. Maybe.
I almost included Herras who in my humble opinion at his peak may have been the best pure climber in the last thirty years. There's the doping thing though.
Thought about it. He seemed more of an opportunist though. Never was sure if he was as good a climber as his KOM jerseys indicate. Maybe.
I almost included Herras who in my humble opinion at his peak may have been the best pure climber in the last thirty years. There's the doping thing though.
Keith99
07-19-10, 06:09 PM
I might take Coppi out. Not that he wasn't a good climber, more the he was far from a pure climber. After all he broke the Hour record under pretty difficult circumstances.
Laggard
07-19-10, 06:12 PM
I might take Coppi out. Not that he wasn't a good climber, more the he was far from a pure climber. After all he broke the Hour record under pretty difficult circumstances.
Good point.
Good point.
OrionKhan
07-19-10, 06:20 PM
Thought about it. He seemed more of an opportunist though. Never was sure if he was as good a climber as his KOM jerseys indicate. Maybe.
I almost included Herras who in my humble opinion at his peak may have been the best pure climber in the last thirty years. There's the doping thing though.
I thought about Herras as well. I always wondered what he'd have done in the TdF if he was riding for LA those 2 or 3 years (age 27-29 in his peak).
I almost included Herras who in my humble opinion at his peak may have been the best pure climber in the last thirty years. There's the doping thing though.
I thought about Herras as well. I always wondered what he'd have done in the TdF if he was riding for LA those 2 or 3 years (age 27-29 in his peak).
DiabloScott
07-19-10, 06:21 PM
Lucien Van Impe would be on the shortest of all lists.
OrionKhan
07-19-10, 06:39 PM
Lucien Van Impe would be on the shortest of all lists.
Another good one.
Another good one.
Laggard
07-19-10, 07:24 PM
Lucien Van Impe would be on the shortest of all lists.
Crap. I had him and took him off for some reason.
Bahamontes
Pantani
Herrara
Van Impe
Gaul
Crap. I had him and took him off for some reason.
Bahamontes
Pantani
Herrara
Van Impe
Gaul
Suzie Green
07-20-10, 12:41 AM
Where would you place Richard Virenque in that mix? (7 TdF KOM's for those that don't know) I know, I know....a doper. But who isn't?
Good choice, though more of an opportunist, attacking when the GC riders were tactically watching each other. I'd put him at the bottom of my 5-rider short list.
Good choice, though more of an opportunist, attacking when the GC riders were tactically watching each other. I'd put him at the bottom of my 5-rider short list.
roadwarrior
07-20-10, 02:05 PM
Lucien Van Impe would be on the shortest of all lists.
Six KOM's and a tour win which is not bad considering being from Belgium where they don't exactly grow climbers. He was also top climber in the Giro twice.
I didn't live too far from him when I was in Belgium and a couple guys on the team knew him and he'd occasionally go on rides with us in early season. It was like riding with a motorcycle. He was off the A10 west of Brussels. Great guy who lived most of his career in Merckx' shadow.
Six KOM's and a tour win which is not bad considering being from Belgium where they don't exactly grow climbers. He was also top climber in the Giro twice.
I didn't live too far from him when I was in Belgium and a couple guys on the team knew him and he'd occasionally go on rides with us in early season. It was like riding with a motorcycle. He was off the A10 west of Brussels. Great guy who lived most of his career in Merckx' shadow.
USAZorro
07-20-10, 02:16 PM
Sorry, but Coppi has to go back on the list. Not sure whether Herrera or Gaul would get bumped.
Laggard
07-20-10, 02:45 PM
Sorry, but Coppi has to go back on the list. Not sure whether Herrera or Gaul would get bumped.
I'll take suggestions.
I'll take suggestions.
DiabloScott
07-20-10, 02:53 PM
Sorry, but Coppi has to go back on the list. Not sure whether Herrera or Gaul would get bumped.
Coppi's on enough lists.
I like it the way it stands.
Coppi's on enough lists.
I like it the way it stands.
merlinextraligh
07-21-10, 06:53 AM
Thought about it. He seemed more of an opportunist though. Never was sure if he was as good a climber as his KOM jerseys indicate. Maybe.
+1. Most of those KOM's came when Virenque was at a point in his career when he couldn't climb with the GC guys, and he made opportunistic breaks.
KOM jerseys, at least in modern times are not an indication of true climbing prowess. See e.g. Laurent Jaliber.
+1. Most of those KOM's came when Virenque was at a point in his career when he couldn't climb with the GC guys, and he made opportunistic breaks.
KOM jerseys, at least in modern times are not an indication of true climbing prowess. See e.g. Laurent Jaliber.
SunSwingsLow
07-21-10, 12:55 PM
Not a fanboy here.
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
Virenque always seemed like a shooting star with the KOM to me. He would bomb out of the gate and grab the first 2 or 3 climbs and then implode.
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
Virenque always seemed like a shooting star with the KOM to me. He would bomb out of the gate and grab the first 2 or 3 climbs and then implode.
merlinextraligh
07-21-10, 01:51 PM
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
No more than Merckx, or Lemond.
Armstrong climbed well, but was an all around rider, not a pure climber.
No more than Merckx, or Lemond.
Armstrong climbed well, but was an all around rider, not a pure climber.
Keith99
07-21-10, 02:01 PM
+1. Most of those KOM's came when Virenque was at a point in his career when he couldn't climb with the GC guys, and he made opportunistic breaks.
KOM jerseys, at least in modern times are not an indication of true climbing prowess. See e.g. Laurent Jaliber.
And the converse. There were a couple of years where no one could stay with Pantani in the high mountians when he wanted a mountiantop. But he wanted stages in the high mountians and all but ignored picking up points on lesser climbs.
KOM jerseys, at least in modern times are not an indication of true climbing prowess. See e.g. Laurent Jaliber.
And the converse. There were a couple of years where no one could stay with Pantani in the high mountians when he wanted a mountiantop. But he wanted stages in the high mountians and all but ignored picking up points on lesser climbs.
SunSwingsLow
07-21-10, 02:12 PM
No more than Merckx, or Lemond.
Armstrong climbed well, but was an all around rider, not a pure climber.
fair enough.
Armstrong climbed well, but was an all around rider, not a pure climber.
fair enough.
lotek
07-21-10, 03:01 PM
I'd leave Gaul on there, but that's personal bias since he is one of my all time favorite riders. Tragic story really though.
Look up Mountain Goat in the dictionary and you have Herras picture.
tough call to find the top 5. . .
Look up Mountain Goat in the dictionary and you have Herras picture.
tough call to find the top 5. . .
wabbit
07-21-10, 06:04 PM
Add simoni...he's won the toughest and most brutal climbs: the Angliru and the Zoncolan among them.
GV27
07-22-10, 09:10 AM
Andy Hampsten deserves mention here.......
Cat4Lifer
07-22-10, 12:52 PM
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
Why just because he dropped Pantani?
Remember, we have to consider hate before reason.
Why just because he dropped Pantani?
Remember, we have to consider hate before reason.
wabbit
07-22-10, 06:26 PM
I have to also add Julio Perez, who mostly did the giro, also Alex Zulle, and Fernando Escartin, and Gianni Bugno ...
for some reason italians seem to do really well on the Alpe....
for some reason italians seem to do really well on the Alpe....
Howzit
07-22-10, 06:46 PM
Not a fanboy here.
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
LA never really climbed actually, he just got paced up the climb by his team and sprinted home in the final kilometers. He never did solo breaks across 1 or 2 mountain passes.
I would put Pantani on top of the list. A TdF and Giro win in the same year is very rare. The manner in which he did it too was remarkable. Dope or not, his climbing is unquestionable, not only that, his consistency is also unquestionable.
If you cast you minds back, he would go over two or three mountain passes alone, even with those types of finishes with 20KM stretches of flat road before the finish. To put it into perspective, he broke out alone over 3 mountain passes on almost the exact same route as Tuesday. - Oh, and wearing the yellow.
But shouldnt LA be considered pretty close to these guys. His accelrations and tempo were hardly matched on the steep stuff.
LA never really climbed actually, he just got paced up the climb by his team and sprinted home in the final kilometers. He never did solo breaks across 1 or 2 mountain passes.
I would put Pantani on top of the list. A TdF and Giro win in the same year is very rare. The manner in which he did it too was remarkable. Dope or not, his climbing is unquestionable, not only that, his consistency is also unquestionable.
If you cast you minds back, he would go over two or three mountain passes alone, even with those types of finishes with 20KM stretches of flat road before the finish. To put it into perspective, he broke out alone over 3 mountain passes on almost the exact same route as Tuesday. - Oh, and wearing the yellow.
OrionKhan
07-22-10, 07:05 PM
LA never really climbed actually, he just got paced up the climb by his team and sprinted home in the final kilometers. He never did solo breaks across 1 or 2 mountain passes.
I would put Pantani on top of the list. A TdF and Giro win in the same year is very rare. The manner in which he did it too was remarkable. Dope or not, his climbing is unquestionable, not only that, his consistency is also unquestionable.
If you cast you minds back, he would go over two or three mountain passes alone, even with those types of finishes with 20KM stretches of flat road before the finish. To put it into perspective, he broke out alone over 3 mountain passes on almost the exact same route as Tuesday. - Oh, and wearing the yellow.
I would put him at the top of my list. But he's also my sentimental favorite.
I would put Pantani on top of the list. A TdF and Giro win in the same year is very rare. The manner in which he did it too was remarkable. Dope or not, his climbing is unquestionable, not only that, his consistency is also unquestionable.
If you cast you minds back, he would go over two or three mountain passes alone, even with those types of finishes with 20KM stretches of flat road before the finish. To put it into perspective, he broke out alone over 3 mountain passes on almost the exact same route as Tuesday. - Oh, and wearing the yellow.
I would put him at the top of my list. But he's also my sentimental favorite.
breadbin
07-23-10, 04:16 AM
robert millar was my favourite climber and pretty good i think:) good enough to be in a top5 ever not sure:)
wabbit
07-23-10, 04:57 AM
I agree about Pantani...there's no one who could climb like him, whatever the controversy. No amount of dope can turn you into a climber like that. To this day I wish he was still riding, because he was the only one who could bring that magic to a mountain stage. If only he hadn't been so fragile...and he also made the giro to be so hugely popular. Him and Cipollini....they really made the giro even more popular because fans showed up in huge numbers just to see them.
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
logdrum
07-23-10, 12:54 PM
I agree about Pantani...there's no one who could climb like him, whatever the controversy. No amount of dope can turn you into a climber like that. To this day I wish he was still riding, because he was the only one who could bring that magic to a mountain stage. If only he hadn't been so fragile...and he also made the giro to be so hugely popular. Him and Cipollini....they really made the giro even more popular because fans showed up in huge numbers just to see them.
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
I think hunching over the drops is the trademark Pantani climbing style. There are many guys who pedal toe down if that's what you mean by Pantani's pedaling style.
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
I think hunching over the drops is the trademark Pantani climbing style. There are many guys who pedal toe down if that's what you mean by Pantani's pedaling style.
chasm54
07-23-10, 01:02 PM
robert millar was my favourite climber and pretty good i think:) good enough to be in a top5 ever not sure:)
+1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FhdKWFmgg
+1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FhdKWFmgg
Howzit
07-23-10, 01:28 PM
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
.............except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
Using the drops while standing for climbing is actually easier/better for hard efforts on long steep climbs if you have a small build, this is the style I use.
This is because the back wheel loses traction on the steep climbs if you are on the brake hoods. Leaning on the brakes hoods on a steep slope takes all the weight of a small rider off the back wheel. With explosive power, the back wheel loses half its traction with every pedal stroke.
If you use the drops, it reduces the leveraging effect caused by brake hood and brings your C.O.M lower and more evenly distributed over both wheels.
Further more, and this is a major one, it reduces the amount of energy you use slightly. This is because your arms are more relaxed in the drops, in fact you just use the webbing between your thumb and index finger to lean on and hardly need to clench the handle bar. This way, you can make a long effort without your forearms tiring out. Also, because your leaned over resting more weight on your shoulders, you can relax your tummy a little more than you would standing more erect as you would if you were on the brake hood, which again, helps with long efforts and reduces energy loss.
If you cant use the drops, small riders often need to compensate the reduction of this leveraging effect by "bouncing"/"rocking" side to side as Alberto or Scleck do. You get similar results. They bounce on the pedals so they stand more erect, therefore not leaning over the handle bars as most riders would do. LA is a good example of someone who climbs normally leaning over the handle bars. The small climber cant do that, they have to stand more erect to keep weight on the back wheel if they are on the brake hoods, this also helps keep the tummy and forearms relaxed.
Hope that all makes sense
.............except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
Using the drops while standing for climbing is actually easier/better for hard efforts on long steep climbs if you have a small build, this is the style I use.
This is because the back wheel loses traction on the steep climbs if you are on the brake hoods. Leaning on the brakes hoods on a steep slope takes all the weight of a small rider off the back wheel. With explosive power, the back wheel loses half its traction with every pedal stroke.
If you use the drops, it reduces the leveraging effect caused by brake hood and brings your C.O.M lower and more evenly distributed over both wheels.
Further more, and this is a major one, it reduces the amount of energy you use slightly. This is because your arms are more relaxed in the drops, in fact you just use the webbing between your thumb and index finger to lean on and hardly need to clench the handle bar. This way, you can make a long effort without your forearms tiring out. Also, because your leaned over resting more weight on your shoulders, you can relax your tummy a little more than you would standing more erect as you would if you were on the brake hood, which again, helps with long efforts and reduces energy loss.
If you cant use the drops, small riders often need to compensate the reduction of this leveraging effect by "bouncing"/"rocking" side to side as Alberto or Scleck do. You get similar results. They bounce on the pedals so they stand more erect, therefore not leaning over the handle bars as most riders would do. LA is a good example of someone who climbs normally leaning over the handle bars. The small climber cant do that, they have to stand more erect to keep weight on the back wheel if they are on the brake hoods, this also helps keep the tummy and forearms relaxed.
Hope that all makes sense
Voodoo76
07-23-10, 02:18 PM
I agree about Pantani...there's no one who could climb like him, whatever the controversy. No amount of dope can turn you into a climber like that. To this day I wish he was still riding, because he was the only one who could bring that magic to a mountain stage. If only he hadn't been so fragile...and he also made the giro to be so hugely popular. Him and Cipollini....they really made the giro even more popular because fans showed up in huge numbers just to see them.
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
Probably closest to Thor Hushovd, im too big to climb like Cav.
Just out of curiosity,when you all climb, which climbers do you emulate?
For me Simoni, because he's about my size...but also pantani's pedaling style, except i don't hunch over into the drops. I have no idea how he did that!
Probably closest to Thor Hushovd, im too big to climb like Cav.
wabbit
07-23-10, 03:58 PM
yes, the toe down style... i tried it and it's actually really efficient. think of a duck paddling.
Pantani makes me think of the bumblebee...you look at him climbing like that and it looks like it can't work but it worked. I also kind of emulate armstrong's steady pace...
Simoni must be a big fan of Gianni Bugno because he reminds me a lot of him...very smooth, never looked like he was even sweating, totally unruffled...
Pantani makes me think of the bumblebee...you look at him climbing like that and it looks like it can't work but it worked. I also kind of emulate armstrong's steady pace...
Simoni must be a big fan of Gianni Bugno because he reminds me a lot of him...very smooth, never looked like he was even sweating, totally unruffled...
mcoomer
07-23-10, 06:19 PM
Pantani has to be in the list, regardless of his indiscretions. He and Mario Cippolini were the last guys in my memory to have real panache. I'd put Iban Mayo on that list too. Ivan Basso too. Simoni. So my list is Pantani at the top and the others in no particular order. I'm stumped for a fifth. There are some folks that are very good, but top 5???
Marco Pantani
Iban Mayo
Gilberto Simoni
Ivan Basso
BTW...I'm a pretty big, athletic kind of guy. I can climb well enough to get over the top and can really carry the mail on a flat but I'll never, never, ever be a climber. Watching some of these cats always made me wonder what it must be like to be able to turn those pedals over like that and scoot right over the top of the biggest climbs in the world. All out sprints and TT's are fun to watch but for me the climb is what it's all about.
Marco Pantani
Iban Mayo
Gilberto Simoni
Ivan Basso
BTW...I'm a pretty big, athletic kind of guy. I can climb well enough to get over the top and can really carry the mail on a flat but I'll never, never, ever be a climber. Watching some of these cats always made me wonder what it must be like to be able to turn those pedals over like that and scoot right over the top of the biggest climbs in the world. All out sprints and TT's are fun to watch but for me the climb is what it's all about.