& i thank this forum for having helped me develop the presence of mind to immed. make sure the police got called, the lady took a left turn into me while i was halfway through the intersection. when i asked if i or my bike was ok,i kept saying "i don't know, that's up to the medics/mechanics to decide" ,before the cop back w/ her ticket she kept trying to say " i KNOW i he wasn't there when i started turning, he just came up on top of me" the cop found it pretty unbelievable that i could've gotten to the point where the impact occured if she had entered the intersection first. plus i was going straight & she was turning, so he said i had the right of way. nows shes calling me to make sure i don't call her insurance company first 'cuz she want's to pay for the damages, i think she's gonna be a little shocked at the cost, but oh well. at least i'm fine, my leg is a little sprained, but when i first looked down there was a golf ball sized swelling on my leg that i wasn't sure if that was my bone sticking out, it's gone down though, whew. i'll play nice if she comes through for the damages, but i also won't feel guilty asking for a mostly new bike considering how much it could cost her insurance over the years.
thanks y'all- & always call the cops, even "minor" damages are too much to pay for if it's their fault. if it was their fault. i am lucky the cops were cool though, i've heard too many stories where they were arseholes & just took the cars side, 'cuz you know you damn cyclists shouldn't be on road :)
Phiber
09-16-04, 12:04 PM
Glad to hear you are alright (for the most part.) What kind of bike were you riding? :) Time to get that Italian bike you've always dreamed of, eh?
cerewa
09-16-04, 12:08 PM
Sounds like you handled that accident quite well, and I'm glad you weren't badly hurt. Were you wearing a helmet? If so, did it take an impact?
I agree that you should have the driver cover all of your expenses and not let yourself wind up with a bike that doesn't work quite right after the crash.
John E
09-16-04, 12:12 PM
Under California law (and I assume NC law is similar), any traffic incident in which anyone is injured MUST be reported to the Department of Motor Vehicles by BOTH parties involved. The police officer MAY be filing this for you; please confirm. Have your injury checked out by a competent medical professional, have your bike checked out by a competent local shop, and keep detailed records of all of your time and expenses. A reasonable settlement would be the full cost of mechanical repairs, plus approximately 3 times your total medical expenditure. If she does not agree to pay this essentially on demand, contact her insurance carrier.
If this had happened in California, she would be assessed with one point on her driving record. To erase this point and keep her insurance rate from going up, she would, assuming an otherwise clean record, have the option of going to traffic school. I realize it was an "accident" [I hate that term], but she was negligent and deserves some level of punishment, to encourage her to take a significantly less cavalier attitude toward operating a lethal weapon on public roads. Be cordial, fair, and just in dealing with her, but not overly merciful. After all, she is clearly at fault.
slvoid
09-16-04, 01:38 PM
Make sure she pays but don't take her to the cleaners and don't take advantage of the situation either. Recognize that she is at least nice enough to pay for damages.
Dusk
09-16-04, 02:05 PM
What about the second time you got hit by a car.....sorry just inferring from you title that you had been hit several times.
You Okay?
BeTheChange
09-16-04, 03:40 PM
Be glad we live in NC. Most of the cops know about bicycle and pedestrian rights because the NC DOT is on top of things. Hell, we even have signed bike touring routes (I know south carolina and georgia don't). I'm glad to hear you did exactly the right thing. I guess I can now make the excuse that reading on the forums every day is for safety (training in case of an accident). Good luck.
Dahon.Steve
09-16-04, 03:48 PM
nows shes calling me to make sure i don't call her insurance company first 'cuz she want's to pay for the damages, i think she's gonna be a little shocked at the cost, but oh well. at least i'm fine, my leg is a little sprained, but when i first looked down there was a golf ball sized swelling on my leg that i wasn't sure if that was my bone sticking out, it's gone down though,:)
Hold on a second.
Everyone thinks she's some kind of saint but the facts are different. She tried to lie her way out of the situation and when that didn't work, informed you not to call her insurance??
You got to be kidding me??? I think you're insane if you don't call her insurance ASAP because I highly doubt you'll get anything from her once she finds out all the damage. I would be surprised if she gave you more than $500.00 bucks so don't waste your time. Trust me. She's paying good money to an insurance company to compensate those for her mistakes and they now owe YOU a lot of money. Forget her remark and go after her insurance. A golf ball sized swelling could easily become something more serious like a tumor that will need to be operated. Forget being a nice guy and lets get the phone number of her insurance and persent them a copy of the police report.
You're probably doing society a favor by taking her insurance to court causing her monthly premiums to go up. Over the years, I've seen many crazy drivers (some family members) get involved in multiple car accidents only to settle down once their premiums went though the roof! I'm sure once her premium skyrockets, she'll be a much safer driver for you and me. There's nothing like paying our of your EYEBALLS for auto insurance that will take the lead foot even out of Mario Andretti.
Phiber
09-16-04, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE= nows shes calling me to make sure i don't call her insurance company first 'cuz she want's to pay for the damages, i think she's gonna be a little shocked at the cost, but oh well. at least i'm fine, my leg is a little sprained, but when i first looked down there was a golf ball sized swelling on my leg that i wasn't sure if that was my bone sticking out, it's gone down though,:)
Hold on a second.
Everyone thinks she's some kind of saint but the facts are different. She tried to lie her way out of the situation and when that didn't work, informed you not to call her insurance??
You got to be kidding me??? I think you're insane if you don't call her insurance ASAP because I highly doubt you'll get anything from her once she finds out all the damage. I would be surprised if she gave you more than $500.00 bucks so don't waste your time. Trust me. She's paying good money to an insurance company to compensate those for her mistakes and they now owe YOU a lot of money. Forget her remark and go after her insurance. A golf ball sized swelling could easily become something more serious like a tumor that will need to be operated. Forget being a nice guy and lets get the phone number of her insurance and persent them a copy of the police report.
You're probably doing society a favor by taking her insurance to court causing her monthly premiums to go up. Over the years, I've seen many crazy drivers (some family members) get involved in multiple car accidents only to settle down once their premiums went though the roof! I'm sure once her premium skyrockets, she'll be a much safer driver for you and me. There's nothing like paying our of your EYEBALLS for auto insurance that will take the lead foot even out of Mario Andretti.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
supcom
09-16-04, 06:03 PM
Call her insurance. Why accept the risk and hassle of trying to collect for her convenience? Her insurance company will find out the next time they check her driving record since there is a police report.
If the damage is only a couple hundred dollars, then OK, give her a chance. Otherwise, deal with someone you know will pay.
Seeker
09-16-04, 07:23 PM
My experiance with insurance is that they will try to weasel out of paying as much as they possibly can. That's why they have ambulance chasers on T.V. wanting your traffic accident business so the insurance companies don't rip you off. Make sure your LBS makes out an estimate (if you're waiting for her to pay) or gives you a detailed invoice of parts and services (if you're paying first and taking the bill to her for reimbursment) and offer her a photo copy of the estimate/bill for her records. That way she has no reason to think that you are trying to bilk her and if she balks you can take it up with her insurance who will still give you a run around because after all they make their money by taking in money and not by paying it out.
Freestyle
09-16-04, 11:45 PM
You called the police, now call her insurance. You don't know if your leg will be ok or hurt for years to come. You might need PT. you never be a good guy in this sort of thing.
enantiodroma
09-17-04, 06:32 AM
since physically, i really do think i'm ok, i'm considerably more relaxed than i might've been otherwise. i was wearing my helmet (& a bright yellow shirt), but didn't fall, just kinda got twisted a little under her bumper, the bikes at my lbs & i went there yesterday to take a closer look at the bike myself, & there's about $250 of obvious (to me damage) not including labor, they still need to put the bike in a frame alignment stand to make sure nothings bent, if it is it'll mean a new frame since it's aluminum. (yes my next will be steel)
as to what kinda bike it is you can read my "xtracycle finally complete" post in the touring forums.
i'm going to give her a chance before i call her insurance company. plus the cop kinda hinted i have a bit of power over the ticket she got, so basically, once i hear from the bike shop as to the estimated damages i'll give her a call, & give her 'till the next day to deliver a cashiers check. her insurance will probably go up regardless. but if she pays me promptly i can have her ticket dropped which i think is reasonable.
& this is my first & only time being hit. (Cross fingers)...so far.
ewitz
09-17-04, 07:18 AM
BLEED HER DRY.
Even if the bike frame appears to be straight get a new one. Next season when you are riding along and hit a bump causing frame failure who will hit the ground? You not her and not totally out of the realm of possibility. Peace of mind is priceless, and that is what a new frame will give you.
Get a new helmet. Even if the old one appears to be perfect.
Same thing with shorts and jersey and and pedals and bar tape and everything else that you can think of. Offer her all the salvage parts being replaced as they will then be her problem. You did nothing wrong and deserve to have everything in the same exact shape as before the incident.
At the end of the day you are offering a one time payout versus a few years of higher premiums. At the first balk on her part, set her straight and let her choose then and there the path she wants to take. You are doing her a favour, so that means you should not short change yourself. Demand payment in full immediately and do not compromise.
slvoid
09-17-04, 07:25 AM
I hope everyone here who suggests that this guy bleed her dry that next time one of you hits a pedestrian by accident that they bleed you dry for all you're worth.
You have her information, the cops have the information, the LBS has the information, give her a chance and if she doesn't pay up, then use that information and call the insurance company and a good lawyer.
Kestrelman
09-17-04, 07:31 AM
When and where in Raleigh did this happen? (Want to be sure to avoid that intersection).
John E
09-17-04, 08:35 AM
... but if she pays me promptly i can have her ticket dropped which i think is reasonable. ...
I very much like your approach and your attitude and agree with everything you say, except the above. Since she was entirely at fault and caused a collision, she has "earned" that ticket and the resulting point against her driving record, just as if she had run a red light in front of a police officer or hit another car. If you want to turn the other cheek and go lightly on the civil settlement, more power to you, but please don't let her off the criminal conviction. She needs to be taught the important life lesson to be more attentive while driving. You may save someone's life, even hers.
enantiodroma
09-17-04, 09:41 AM
kestrelman-it happened at cameron village while i was crossing from the centura parking lot to the wachovia parking lot, she was leaving the wachovia lot & took a left turn into me.
slvoid-THANK YOU.
wow, i posted to stress the importance of dealing w/ an accident properly at the scene oh well, i can see the point about not letting her off the hook w/ the criminal charge/ticket & i have given thought along those lines. since there is an accident report on file, her premiums are going to go up regardless. the matter w/ the ticket will only influence the degree. i'm going to give her the chance to pay what i think is fair for the damages & my time. if there is a disagreement as to what is fair, that's what the courts are for. & if i want to place a premium on the time i spend getting her ticket dropped. that's between the lady & i, yes, i totally think she should be paying for this to a degree that serves as a notice for her to be more careful. i'm just saying i'd rather work it out w/ her if possible & (hopefully) end up w/ the ticket costs & court fee's in my pocket instead of the court systems. she's aware that she may be having to shell out for a new frame & that she hit a hand built rear wheel, while i didn't mention "chris king" to her 'cuz she would have no idea what that meant, i did explain the wheel was "custom" & she understands that "custom=$$$" . it really wasn't that bad of a hit. which i why am really glad i had the presence of mind to call the police instead of brushing it off. i didn't even fall, ok?, of course if i'd hit the ground it be much more apparent. my conjecture is that this is type of accident that could of easily been brushed off due to shock & i could have waved her away only to be screaming at myself 10 minutes later.
however you guys have got me to think about it a little more as to what this is all worth. even if the frame isn't bent, it is aluminum & there's no way to tell that there isn't some microscopic crack that could propagate, especially since bikes aren't made to take lateral forces. so i shouldn't really hesitate to ask for the cost of a new frame, in addition to the other damages/labor that was involved.
as long as it checks out in a trueing stand, i'm pretty sure the wheel will be fine. my reasoning is such. (note the wheel/axle is 15" behind my rear dropouts due to it being an xtracycle & the impact was approx. at my rear dropouts.) while am am amazed at whatever forces twisted up my derailluer, on the right hand side of my bike, while the impact occured on the left. i'm reasoning that the forces are going to go through the path of least resistance. that's why car frames have crumple zones, in this case the least resistive part was the rear derailluer, while it was bent, it there was still further room for it to go & i think that would've happened before too much more damage occured elsewhere on the bike. plus by looking at the state of the chain, which may have a slight kink in the links where it passes through the RD's cage/pulleys. if there was enough force incurred to it to be super worried, i think it would be apparent in the parts that were damaged, by them being damaged even more. in addition. where my legs grabbed my saddle & twisted it, it is a "little" loose on the rails, but not severely, yes i should replace it, & will, but it would be liveable for now if i wanted to take the replacement $ for that & upgrade some other component on my a new build. also we haven't pulled out the quick release's yet, i i think that, being steel, if they're not showing any damage, then i doubt the hub is damaged.
so, barring wheel damage & anything else the lbs points out (i am worried a little about the chainrings) i'm feeling, at this point $1500-$2000 is probably fair.
despite the contention i do appreciate y'alls opinions & because of them will probably be asking for more than i might've otherwise.
enantiodroma
09-17-04, 10:51 AM
ok-so i just talked to my friend who's an ex cop-he's hooking me up w/ a lawyer & basically he said that if i called the ladies insurance co. that they would more than likely settle for $3k-$5k w/ out blinking, probably over the phone & that i shouldn't "roll over" on this, in his words. i went ahead & made an appointment w/ a chiropractor.
so i guess y'all are right, the lady hit me, i shouldn't be doing her any favors. the lady who hit me is a paralegal & my excop friend explained that's why she wants to settle away from the insurance co. so bad, 'cuz she knows what would be involved.
so we're looking at $2k on the bike, a couple hundred for the lawyer, a couple hundred more for the chiropractor, an the asschap fee, all told $3-5k isn't unreasonable. wasn't my opinion off the bat. but enough people convinced me. i feel a little weird about it, but i guess i do have a right to know that i'm physically ok & to not worry about my main mode of transportation failing on me in the future.
Kestrelman
09-17-04, 01:17 PM
Dang! I know exactly where that is - use it all the time. I live about a mile from there. enantiodroma - good luck with the case and let us know how it turns out. And, yes - a chiropractor is definitely in order, as is a new helmet is that got thumped.
gpsblake
09-17-04, 01:50 PM
Go talk to a personal injury lawyer and get his/her advice. It's free in most cases.
Virago
09-17-04, 11:08 PM
i feel a little weird about it, but i guess i do have a right to know that i'm physically ok & to not worry about my main mode of transportation failing on me in the future.
That just means you have a conscience. I wouldn't want to be overly punitive, either, but you have to be realistic about what the other person's negligence has done to you, and it sounds as though you are. My best friend was doored by a taxi passenger who exited on the wrong side, and her collarbone was broken as a result. Being the kind, trusting person that she is, she wasn't going to fight that hard for a settlement, she just wanted her medical bills paid. I reminded her that not only is she injured, but she was losing money by having to take the subway to work instead of riding, PLUS losing her primary source of exercise. Given the role that exercise plays in a fit person's life, I wouldn't feel one bit bad about demanding to be compensated for that.
MassBiker
09-20-04, 11:58 AM
nows shes calling me to make sure i don't call her insurance company first 'cuz she want's to pay for the damages, i think she's gonna be a little shocked at the cost, but oh well. at least i'm fine, my leg is a little sprained, but when i first looked down there was a golf ball sized swelling on my leg that i wasn't sure if that was my bone sticking out, it's gone down though, whew. i'll play nice if she comes through for the damages, but i also won't feel guilty asking for a mostly new bike considering how much it could cost her insurance over the years.
I wrote a detailed article about what to do if you should crash. Some of the information is Massachusetts-oriented, but it's generally true for anywhere in the US and Canada. It's at:
http://www.massbike.org/howto/crash.htm
[Our website is down for maintenance, and I don't know when it'll be back up. If you'd like a copy of this article, write to me directly at
mailto:bikeforums20040920.10.trevay@spamgourmet.com
and I'll get it to you.]
Don't go for a private settlement, because she has a vested interest in stiffing you, and her pockets aren't deep compared to her insurance company's. You are far better off going through ordinary channels. And that means --
* getting your medical issues handled by a doctor
* getting your bike to a mechanic who understands that this crash was not your fault, and that your bike should therefore be restored to 100% of its pre-crash condition, or if that's impossible, that your bike get replaced
* filing the crash reports with the police, the department of motor vehicles, and with her insurance company, and
* that you make the claim through her insurance.
Don't worry about doing her any favors. She's responsible for this. If she'd hit a motorcyclist or an automobile driver or a school bus she wouldn't be begging for special treatment. Instead, she'd follow procedure, filing the reports, and letting her insurance company answer the claims.
And perhaps having a few years' higher premiums might provide an incentive for her to drive a little better.
Tom Revay
Dedham, Massachusetts
PainTrain
09-23-04, 11:14 AM
MassBiker:
Great article, thanks.
Regarding the medical information issue: now that HIPAA (http://privacyruleandresearch.nih.gov/) regs are in force, some of the burden of protecting your full health record is covered by Uncle Sam. I don't believe an insurance company would have that kind of latitude any more.
Therefore, when you find authorizations in the form that permit the insurance company to have "any or all medical records" (or similar language), you should add the clause, "relating to my bicycle accident on such-and-such date," so that you limit the authorization to releasing only those medical records that relate to this accident.
Better to be safe than sorry, though, for sure.
Wow, if you live in Mass. you can have Sheldon Brown himself work on your bike! B1tchin'!
slickrock
09-28-04, 05:44 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your accident since I was hit by a car on Thursday. I was going down a hill on a route I've ridden dozens of times at 6:15 am with a flashing light on my bike. The driver hit me from behind and I slid on the street ending up with a fractured rib and a little road rash since I was wearing tights and arm warmers. Unfortunately, the cop said it was both our faults which amazed me since you can see my light 2000 feet from behind. The good side is that 5-6 people stopped to help me while the ambulance arrived. In fact, one person took my bike to his house and then delivered it to mine later that day. I'll take the bike to the shop later to see how it survived but it looks in better shape than me. Since I live in Maryland I don't know if I can do anything (i.e., sue) the driver.
Seanholio
09-28-04, 10:38 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your accident since I was hit by a car on Thursday. I was going down a hill on a route I've ridden dozens of times at 6:15 am with a flashing light on my bike. The driver hit me from behind and I slid on the street ending up with a fractured rib and a little road rash since I was wearing tights and arm warmers. Unfortunately, the cop said it was both our faults which amazed me since you can see my light 2000 feet from behind. The good side is that 5-6 people stopped to help me while the ambulance arrived. In fact, one person took my bike to his house and then delivered it to mine later that day. I'll take the bike to the shop later to see how it survived but it looks in better shape than me. Since I live in Maryland I don't know if I can do anything (i.e., sue) the driver.
As I've said to many others, cops do not determine fault. They can say what they like, but the court is where responsibility is ultimately determined. I don't know the circumstances of the crash, but to be hit from behind, when you have a brightly lit bike, it seems that a judge will likely see the situation differently than did the officer. Be sure to process all of the forms with your Motor Vehicles Department, and notify the driver's insurance company of your damages and expectation of compensation. If they blow you off, contact an attorney and see what they think your chances are, as well as the percentage of your winnings which will be due to the lawyer.
Good luck.
jfmckenna
09-28-04, 10:48 AM
Hold on a second.
Everyone thinks she's some kind of saint but the facts are different. She tried to lie her way out of the situation and when that didn't work, informed you not to call her insurance??
You got to be kidding me??? I think you're insane if you don't call her insurance ASAP because I highly doubt you'll get anything from her once she finds out all the damage. I would be surprised if she gave you more than $500.00 bucks so don't waste your time. Trust me. She's paying good money to an insurance company to compensate those for her mistakes and they now owe YOU a lot of money. Forget her remark and go after her insurance. A golf ball sized swelling could easily become something more serious like a tumor that will need to be operated. Forget being a nice guy and lets get the phone number of her insurance and persent them a copy of the police report.
You're probably doing society a favor by taking her insurance to court causing her monthly premiums to go up. Over the years, I've seen many crazy drivers (some family members) get involved in multiple car accidents only to settle down once their premiums went though the roof! I'm sure once her premium skyrockets, she'll be a much safer driver for you and me. There's nothing like paying our of your EYEBALLS for auto insurance that will take the lead foot even out of Mario Andretti.
I agree. This woman is not a nice honest person. The first thing I would have done if I was the driver after making sure you were ok and knowing damn well that it was my fault is to see that you get everything you deserve back to normal as quickly as possible. This B1cth at first is trying to blame you. To hell with that.