Professional Cycling For the Fans - The Ugly American Goes to France: It's all about Lance.

Lance is an ass.

Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?

This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.

he is just the public figurehead of a huge group of organizations. don't blame him personally. also he had no intention of holding up the race. the tour held up the race - who the f cares what color he wears on the last day. but yeah - kinda weird they had to change the color to have the 28. some marketing jerkwad came up with that I'm sure. they should just have had red jerseys with the 28 ... duh

Yeah, how dare they bring attention to a good cause.... What's next? Pink bats on mother's day in the MLB to raise awareness for breast cancer? Oh, wait....

Considering a large factor of some riders getting in a breakaway is to get tv time for their sponsors, I don't see this publicity stunt as being totally out of character with the race. I thought he was being a bit of a spoiled brat when he took his time changing after they told him to though. His team complied but Lance had to be told by the race refs to put on the red jersey and then told to put on proper numbers.

Yeah, how dare they bring attention to a good cause.... What's next? Pink bats on mother's day in the MLB to raise awareness for breast cancer? Oh, wait....

+1
I couldn't care less if any famous athlete did a similar stunt for this kind of public awareness cause.
If you can use your fame and situation for something like this I don't think there is a problem.

First, folks, there is a rule that Radio Shack was well aware of. (They asked.) If you don't suit up in your approved kit, you are not allowed to start the stage. The promoters were kind and made a clear exception to the rules in allowing Radio Shack to start.

Second, Lance makes a fool of himself with his demonstration after he is told at least three times (shown on camera) that the stunt is over and it's time to put on the approved kit and numbers.

Third, will you folks feel the same way if next year's cause is "Basque Separatism" (a repeated TdF cause) or "Stop MTB's in Parkland" or "Vote for D'estange"? Once you've made an exception, where do the exceptions stop? Is it only about Lance and HIS cause? What about all the other causes represented in the peloton? What if six teams held up the TdF while they each made their various demonstrations?

Lance, you get enough face time without pulling the rightful attention away from the guys in the jerseys. Your day has passed. It's THEIR day now.

Lance is an ass.

Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?

This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.

It's funny, I came out here yesterday knowing for sure that there would be someone on this board that would have to bring this up. I am really surprised it took until today.

And Lance does not care what you think of him.

Hold up the whole race...LMAO...they were riding about as fast as my 78 year old mother on her hybrid.

Tell you what...when you hold a loved one's head while they vomit over and over while on chemo, you tell me if ANY effort to help out is not worth it.

I KNEW someone would not be able to help themselves.

Tell you what...when you hold a loved one's head while they vomit over and over while on chemo, you tell me if ANY effort to help out is not worth it.

I KNEW someone would not be able to help themselves.

I'll telll YOU what. When you hold not just one loved one's but three loved one's heads when they die of cancer -- and when you've held the hands of a few dozen people who are going through the same thing until you see their lives leave their bodies, you can criticize me. I've been there. Until then, you need to get a clue.

There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.

First, folks, there is a rule that Radio Shack was well aware of. (They asked.) If you don't suit up in your approved kit, you are not allowed to start the stage. The promoters were kind and made a clear exception to the rules in allowing Radio Shack to start.

BFD.


Second, FlashBazbo makes a fool of himself with his demonstration of whining after he posted this.

Fixed




FlashBazbo, you get enough face time without pulling the rightful attention away from the guys in the BF. Your day has passed. It's THEIR day now.

Fixed again.

I'll telll YOU what. When you hold not just one loved one's but three loved one's heads when they die of cancer -- and when you've held the hands of a few dozen people who are going through the same thing until you see their lives leave their bodies, you can criticize me. I've been there. Until then, you need to get a clue.

There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.

Calm down mate. The TDF is one of the most watched sporting events on the planet so bringing the issue of cancer to the forefront here is a great idea. I couldn't care less if Lance were to get some personal glory out of it. Accusing him of such is just a useless waste of energy.

I'll telll YOU what. When you hold not just one loved one's but three loved one's heads when they die of cancer -- and when you've held the hands of a few dozen people who are going through the same thing until you see their lives leave their bodies, you can criticize me. I've been there. Until then, you need to get a clue.

There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.

Two cousins, one 38, the other 46 leaving five children behind. Their sister is now undergoing chemo for the fifth time. Her daughter, age 28 went and had her ovaries and both breasts removed as her tumor markers were so high they recommended she do that so she had a shot at seeing 40 years old.

Mother in law. Father in law. Uncle. Aunt. Father is, for now anyway, a survivor.

And you are incorrect.

Just because a highly successful athlete who also happens to be a survivor uses that as a method of bringing awareness is no reason to go off the deep end.

I knew that someone would start this. Knew it. Why do you care?

I knew that someone would start this. Knew it. Why do you care?

Because some people can't help but get their knickers in a twist.

As for "what's next?"... Why is there always a "what's next?"? You can take almost any situation and degrade it with hypothetical situations. It's not like someone was out there riding with a jersey that said "W.A.R." and had the number 88 on it. Use some common sense here...

he is just the public figurehead of a huge group of organizations. don't blame him personally. also he had no intention of holding up the race...

He knew what would happen. It was all pretty well calculated.

So attention was brought to a great cause and some people had to wait 15 minutes to ride their bikes and other people had to wait 15 minutes to watch people ride their bikes. Oh dear god, how dare him!!!

Honestly, aren't their bigger problems in this world to worry about than Lance trying to bring extra attention to the fight against cancer?

is there really anybody left of the planet who is unaware of cancer?

All I know is that the Livestrong clothing is at a great discount right now in the sporting goods stores... I don't mind having full LS workout gear when it's half price :thumb:

I found the jersey thing that TRS did was a little silly and lacking respect on their part in regards to the rest of the peloton. They all know the rules about uniforms. Lance and all of TRS are not above them. I kinda felt like they were trying to steal the thunder from the other jersey winners by pulling that stunt.

Go Lance and TRS, I liked it. When my wife and mother in law were in awe of that gesture, it sure makes it worth it. Now they finally realized that Livestrong is also a charitable arm of Lance. So I guess I'm saying STFU about it already.

Tour officials said the fine levied against the team would be donated to cancer resarch. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Lance, you get enough face time without pulling the rightful attention away from the guys in the jerseys. Your day has passed. It's THEIR day now.

The TV broadcast will contain footage of whomever viewers want to see.

In the US, viewers as a whole want to see Lance, and Versus wants to capture those viewers. They know without a shred of doubt that viewership will drop next year. It happened in 2006.

That's it. There's really nothing else to argue about.

I'm not going to bother looking up refrences. But 15 minutes or even an hour delay does no tmake the top 10. Stages have been cancelled because of Farmers strikes. Stages have been nullified because of rider protests or memorials. The Lance fans who are true Lance fans (meaning they followed him before he was winning the TDF, or at least learned about his early pro years afterwards) will realize the memorial stage for Fabio Casartelli had a huge impact on that Tour as it was one of the mountian stages where there would have been time to gain and there was a climber vrs. TT aspect in that Tour.

What would a Tour be without something like this?

Black jersey's on the podium: cool.

Black jersey's before the stage start: mixed feeling. On the one hand, it accomplished what was planned. I'm convinced that they never had any intention of being able to ride the day in the black; the team knew exactly what would happen and that's why they did it. Even this thread is proof that it worked. TRS did win the team competition so one could argue that putting on a different jersey for the day was no different than the GC winner (or even just current GC leader) riding a yellow bike. On the other hand, the fact that I think the team was pretty sure there would be some delay or controversy lacks respect for the race.

In some ways though, I think the best thing the TdF organizers could have done would be to just let them ride and not drawn extra attention to it.


To roadwarrior and flashbazbo: Are you seriously bragging over which of you has watched over more people suffer and die from cancer? I sympathize with your pain and loss, but come on.

Lance is an ass.
You said it.


What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)?
An American jerkwad like Lance Armstrong.


The ugly American goes to France.
It's pretty clear what the cause of most "anti-American" sentiment is in the world: idiotic, teeth-grinding self-entitlement by Yanks in other countries. Lance takes the cake.


Lance, you get enough face time without pulling the rightful attention away from the guys in the jerseys. Your day has passed. It's THEIR day now.
This characterizes the situation precisely.


Yeah, how dare they bring attention to a good cause....
What's "cancer" anyway? I never heard of it.

I seem to recall one Mario Cipollini wearing all sorts of 'unofficial' kit, (i.e. the musculature skinsuit) and getting fined for it, they didn't tell him he couldn't start. Hell Cipo got fined for riding with a sleeveless jersey and then for rolling up his sleeves.

All in all I thought the whole issue was "meh". Livestrong got it's 15 minutes of air time and the race continued on.

As I have posted on another thread I am on the fence on this one.

Pros
It was moving to those who have had experienced a love one that either beat cancer or lost someone (most of us on here)
It raised awareness

Cons
I still believe that individuals or teams should not be above the sanctioning bodies
It was handled poorly before and after they were called out


There are more pros and cons I am sure but I listed 2 for each that were top of mind. Rules are rules. The pink bat thing is not the same thingas the uniforms.

In baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball), pink bats are limited-supply baseball bats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_bat) manufactured by Louisville Slugger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillerich_%26_Bradsby) for use by select Major League Baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball) players on Mother's Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_Day_(United_States)), first introduced in 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Major_League_Baseball_season) in association with the Susan G. Komen for the Cure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_G._Komen_for_the_Cure) organization. Each year on Mother's Day, Major League Baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball) authorizes the use of the specially dyed bats — temporarily suspending the regulation that restricts players to using black, brown, red, or white bats — as part of a weeklong program to benefit the Susan G. Komen for the Cure organization.

The smart people at Team Radio Shack should have had the foresight to get the kit approved prior to the TDF ever happening. They were fined and the money goes to a good cause. In the future fines should keep increasing with disqualification becoming a permanent deterent. I am not upset with Team Radioshack. I think they could have handled it better after getting caught. We tried it, it was for a good cause, it is against the rules and we understand it, we feel it was for a good cause and we understand the tours position.....period.........Hopefully, when they sell the kits ALL of the money goes to cancer research......

To roadwarrior and flashbazbo: Are you seriously bragging over which of you has watched over more people suffer and die from cancer? I sympathize with your pain and loss, but come on.

+1

Lance is an ass.

Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?

This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.

Lol you remind me of Born again Christians. :lol:

Honestly, aren't their bigger problems in this world to worry about than Lance trying to bring extra attention to the fight against cancer?

Somehow, the cynical voice inside me seems to think this might be the first argument put forward to the Court of Public Opinion in the upcoming doping investigation. A reminder, if you will.

And Flashbazo is absolutely correct - there is a time and place for making the statement, this wasnt it. Where do you draw the line? Should the Euskatel riders do something about Basque freedom, as pointed out? That is a pretty big thing to a lot of them.

V.

NSFW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI1VvCHGJbM

I found the jersey thing that TRS did was a little silly and lacking respect on their part in regards to the rest of the peloton. They all know the rules about uniforms. Lance and all of TRS are not above them. I kinda felt like they were trying to steal the thunder from the other jersey winners by pulling that stunt.

The peloton thought it was hilarious. Did you see a couple of the guys from different teams rolled up to lance after switching jerseys?

So tour organizers had a problem with Radio Shacks black jerseys, and yet Foot On was allowed to race the entire tour in their kit? Bleech! I thought the French knew something about fashion!

P.S. black jerseys are stupid. They're hot as he11.

I think Alphonse said it best, "LOL Lance, that's awesome!"

I seem to recall one Mario Cipollini wearing all sorts of 'unofficial' kit, (i.e. the musculature skinsuit) and getting fined for it, they didn't tell him he couldn't start. Hell Cipo got fined for riding with a sleeveless jersey and then for rolling up his sleeves.

All in all I thought the whole issue was "meh". Livestrong got it's 15 minutes of air time and the race continued on.

I just want to quote this since t is very important to this thread and is conveniently ignored by the people who get off on hating LA.

P.S.- The whole Saeco team wore special kits for Caesar one year. Just a fine.

I side with the UCI on this one.

And I think Lance played up his bitterness because he knew it would get more worldwide coverage.

Had he been allowed to wear the black jerseys, the only media coverage would be in the cycling press. Who else cares?
Had he quietly changed back into TRS kits, the only media coverage would be in the cycling press.

But when Lance acts like his cause has been wronged, it becomes a cancer issue, and suddenly the worldwide media grabbed the story.

It's the Tour's big day. Not an individual rider's.
You notice that he didn't do this on Stage 12, right? No, he did it when it mattered.

There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.

I think it was. Others think like me, some think like you.

I do think that if you are calling LA an ass for this i think you are stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. There's plenty of Lance is an ass ammo out there, his cancer foundation and awareness program isnt one of them.

You notice that he didn't do this on Stage 12, right? No, he did it when it mattered.

On the stage that matters the least and is usually described as being more like a parade than a race?

He knew what would happen. It was all pretty well calculated.


is there really anybody left of the planet who is unaware of cancer?


I found the jersey thing that TRS did was a little silly and lacking respect on their part in regards to the rest of the peloton. They all know the rules about uniforms. Lance and all of TRS are not above them. I kinda felt like they were trying to steal the thunder from the other jersey winners by pulling that stunt.

I have to agree, Lance acted like a spoiled child forced to do something he disagreed with. Team RS management had to have known what the outcome was going to be.

--

FlashBazbo, Roadwarrior, et al;

There are very few of us that reach a certain age that have not lost someone to cancer or some other disease. I happen to work for a nationally ranked cancer research hospital and probably have somewhat more contact with that particular illness than most the readers and posters here.

Personally I find comparing your personal fatality counts crass in the extreme. If you really want the real tragedy of cancer drop me a PM and I'll take you up to PEDs.

I could not help be think that Lance, Radio Shack and company knew exactly what they were doing and am not convinced that ASO knew too. ASO did not need to stop the race before the start. They could have just gone. This amounted to a huge photo op to get off the sports page around the world especially in the US. I know there are people that say Europeans don't want Americans to be fans of their sport but ASO is a business and it knows full well that Lance sells to the US and the world.

Heck the day Lance was in the break, there was no reason to call the group "Group Armstrong" but they did because he is who he is. As far as cameras at the tour. During the race the whole world sees the same thing, all controlled by french television.

So it was a media stunt that who knows who was how involved in, but it did get the point across that there are 28 million people living with cancer and that is what the PR people from everyone involved on Lances side wanted.

Very necessary demonstration as more American follow the Tour than have heard of cancer.

This is one of those debates where I think if you're getting upset about what Team RadioShack did, you don't have enough to worry about.

Ask yourself if Relay for Life sponsored a team and pulled a similar stunt, with the riders of HTC, say, would you be upset? Would you really be upset that Relay for Life pulled a stunt that might lead to thousands of dollars more in merchandise purchases that leads to more cancer research? If not, than you just don't like that Lance did this. If you'd still be upset, I think you and I have very different sets of priorities. I put cancer-research-funding publicity stunts ahead of cycling ethics or uptight cycling regulations any day of the week.

Ask yourself if Relay for Life sponsored a team and pulled a similar stunt, with the riders of HTC, say, would you be upset? Would you really be upset that Relay for Life pulled a stunt that might lead to thousands of dollars more in merchandise purchases that leads to more cancer research? If not, than you just don't like that Lance did this. If you'd still be upset, I think you and I have very different sets of priorities. I put cancer-research-funding publicity stunts ahead of cycling ethics or uptight cycling regulations any day of the week.

So what is the cutoff? Cancer is ok. What about gay rights? Or independence for Quebec? Or praise for Jesus Christ Our Savior? Or Girl Scout cookies?

Can you please come up with a universal list on what is ok and what isnt ok?

V.

Two cousins, one 38, the other 46 leaving five children behind. Their sister is now undergoing chemo for the fifth time. Her daughter, age 28 went and had her ovaries and both breasts removed as her tumor markers were so high they recommended she do that so she had a shot at seeing 40 years old.

Mother in law. Father in law. Uncle. Aunt. Father is, for now anyway, a survivor.

And you are incorrect.

Just because a highly successful athlete who also happens to be a survivor uses that as a method of bringing awareness is no reason to go off the deep end.

I knew that someone would start this. Knew it. Why do you care?

I think that the point he is making is that one doesnt need to brag about cancer and cancer survivors.
As someone who comes form a third world country, I can preach about how many people Iv seen die from hunger, poverty, warlords, modern slavery and so on.
I can even go further and preach about how your culture has caused some of it, blood diamonds and children enslaved to mine gold and and stuff.
I can preach about genocide, where millions of innocent people are being killed.
Or are we saying that only cancer is a terrible affliction thats cruel and unjust on our loved ones? Thats seems to be the vibe of some of these responses.
I can preach about oil spills and the environment.
We do not have to brag about how terrible cancer is, because essentially thats the point its reached with Lance.
Have some decency.

There are also just as many if not more atrocities and unfairness going on in this world right now that need our attention.
Lance is now just making it an entertainment and profiteering event. You can call it awareness if you like.
Like the man said, there is a time and place for everything, and I will add in saying there are also other causes we may consider helping awareness alongside cancer, and maybe we all need to consider other peoples plights, what ever they may be.
I understand that LA is a cancer spokesperson, and the OPs point was that its only fair then to stop the race for other awareness campaigns. This world is not just about Lance and his story, nor is cancer the only unjust and unfair taker of beloved ones that should be the only one made aware of at sporting events, or for whatever reason, be the favored cause. Im sure other cyclists would have loved to take front and center stage to raise awareness for other things just as real and just in need of awareness raising.
So lets all be a little more considerate, and less selfish to our own causes, because others too, would like the same forum, and less favoritism when it comes down to such things.
Unless I have missed something, a life is a life.

You said it.


An American jerkwad like Lance Armstrong.


It's pretty clear what the cause of most "anti-American" sentiment is in the world: idiotic, teeth-grinding self-entitlement by Yanks in other countries. Lance takes the cake.


This characterizes the situation precisely.


What's "cancer" anyway? I never heard of it.

you ARE joking, right, about the anti-american sentiment? In case you aren't....9 years into two un-necessary wars might just be a contributing factor.:rolleyes:

So what is the cutoff? Cancer is ok. What about gay rights? Or independence for Quebec? Or praise for Jesus Christ Our Savior? Or Girl Scout cookies?

Can you please come up with a universal list on what is ok and what isnt ok?

V.

Like some of the previous posters, I have mixed feelings about this issue. On one hand, riding in honor of people with cancer is a good thing. Raising funds for cancer research is a noble cause.

But the way in which Lance and Co. went about doing it seemed inappropriate. If the special jerseys had been cleared with officials before the race, that would have been one thing. But LA holding up the stage start to make a big deal of changing into his regular kit made it look like he was deflecting attention from the jersey winners onto himself. A more appropriate thing might have been for the Radio Shack team to have a moment of silence before the start to honor those who have died of cancer with anyone else joining in. That way the race doesn't get held up and there is no big production about having to change clothing.

I have to agree with the UCI about not letting Radio Shack wear the special jerseys because it would have set a precedent for anyone with a cause to do the same thing. If someone is wearing special clothing to promote cancer awareness, then next thing you know, other riders will want to do the same thing for their causes. And as Vkalia said, who draws the line about whether a cause is deemed worthy or not?

I think if they had a serious problem with it they would have fined them more than 6,000 (Euros I guess), even moreso when they turned around and announced they were giving the 6,000 to cancer research. It's like saying rules are rules but wink wink nod nod we're "ok" with it.

Lance is an ass.

Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?

This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.


You can whine all you want. The TDF has a long history of it being used for various causes. It always has, and always will. Take some time and get used to it.

Ugly? Take a look in the mirror . Here is the root of your displeasure.

So what is the cutoff? Cancer is ok. What about gay rights? Or independence for Quebec? Or praise for Jesus Christ Our Savior? Or Girl Scout cookies?

Can you please come up with a universal list on what is ok and what isnt ok?

V.

Yep, it's all ok. UCI should amend the rule. On the last day into Paris, team all has to be wearing the same kit, but so long as it's given to UCI before hand, and has no offensive gestures/words, it should be allowed to be worn. Whats it hurt?

I think if they had a serious problem with it they would have fined them more than 6,000 (Euros I guess), even moreso when they turned around and announced they were giving the 6,000 to cancer research. It's like saying rules are rules but wink wink nod nod we're "ok" with it.

Armstrong gets some attention. The UCI throws its weight around. Some money goes to charity. It's a textbook win-win-win, engineered controversy, complete with feigned indignancy and some French-bashing to boot.

Yep, it's all ok. UCI should amend the rule. On the last day into Paris, team all has to be wearing the same kit, but so long as it's given to UCI before hand, and has no offensive gestures/words, it should be allowed to be worn. Whats it hurt?

UCI could make whatever rule it wants about jerseys, and it wouldn't be guaranteed to have effect in the Tour - which they do not have ultimate jurisdiction over. ASO runs the tour, and guess what? Neither you nor I have authority to tell them what they ought to do.

So what is the cutoff? Cancer is ok. What about gay rights? Or independence for Quebec? Or praise for Jesus Christ Our Savior? Or Girl Scout cookies?

Can you please come up with a universal list on what is ok and what isnt ok?

V.

Cancer is a disease that does not distinguish between regions or beliefs. It is present all around the globe. I'm pretty sure nobody is pro-cancer.

Getting mad at Lance about this is so utterly ridiculous. TRS actions took nothing away from the tours jersey winners. I think the lance haters need more things to fill out their day. And in the end, the result was money going to charity. Win.