Classic & Vintage - Help identify this 'as is' ate 70's Merckx

I have here a Merckx, but there is a story to tell first.

The bike is probebly late 70's (see BB lug) and the fact that the cableguide is on top of the BB wich is for me a indication it's lat 70's.
But somewhere in the 90's the bike has been resprayed in mid 90's team colors and the have been modifications made like 2 extra eyelets for the waterbottle and a lug for the frontderr. which was not a 70's period thing (the clamp front derr was).

The hardware like grips are not correct as is the crank (veloce) and front derr.

Can anybody tell what's right and wrong on this bike and how the original paint job should be.

Also the wheels are all tubes and need to be replaced by normal rims, but what type. is the Mavic Module E2 good for the year of this bike.

Now anybody that an throw in some light is more than appreciated.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/1-3.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/3-3.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/4-2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/6-2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/7-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/10-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/12.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/13.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/15.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/5-2.jpg

Those more knowledgeable will chime in shortly I'm sure..but I can help you help them by asking you to post some pictures of the entire bike and not just close ups.

Yes, you're right i was convinced the closeups would do, but how wrong i was.

I'll post pix of the entire bike asap.

Would you say the sloping-crown fork is a later replacement as well?

-Kurt

Early 80's Professional.

I am no expert but the dropouts look short for a '70 frame, and was the right one repaired? depending on the lever of the bike tubulars may have been the stock wheels perhaps a Fiamme? somethign tells me the original pait was either white, perhaps with the luggs lined in red, or orange.

is the current paint something like a Telecomm?

right dropout definitely looks repaired in the photos.

Definitely Telekom colors. Don't recall if the BB was faded to black like OP's. Factory repaint? Or maybe not a repaint at all? The Merckx 'bubble' font decals are pretty unique, but we can't see if they are present. When was the heyday of Team Telekom?

Tearsforgears on this Telekom matter:

http://www.tearsforgears.com/2007/09/telekom-and-kelme-merckx-team-bikes.html


and


http://www.tearsforgears.com/2009/07/eddy-merckx-1992-catalog-pages.html


I own a fully built Kelme Century and a Telekom frameset which is a Corsa Extra. I've been told my Corsa Extra is a 1992.

.....but what do I know. :)

I am no expert but the dropouts look short for a '70 frame, and was the right one repaired?
They are 1010b dropouts that were around in the '70s. Right is repaired.

I don't remember my Merckx history, but I think the rear derailleur was probably replaced, and this is an '80s frame. Braze on FD was extremely rare in the '70s.

Strangely, what actually looks to be added are in fact the top-of-BB shell cable guides. Note the hole in the center of the BB shell on the underside: that was to screw in the plastic cable guide. I had a frame exactly like this (mid-80s) in yellow and not the Telecom colors. It had a plastic cable guide - greyish in color - screwed into the BB shell through a hole just as on yours.

If it's a repaint, somebody had it ALL - note the little 'Made In Belgium' decal above the gear levers. Again, same as mine. This is original, and early/mid 80s. The fork is definately from that era.

And I also concur: driveside rear dropout has shiny brass jumping out at you! That looks like a repair I'd get an expert opinion on before taking her out for a thrashing.

Strangely, what actually looks to be added are in fact the top-of-BB shell cable guides. Note the hole in the center of the BB shell on the underside: that was to screw in the plastic cable guide. I had a frame exactly like this (mid-80s) in yellow and not the Telecom colors. It had a plastic cable guide - greyish in color - screwed into the BB shell through a hole just as on yours.



Absolute rubbish.

The hole is a drainage hole. The over the top BB routing is original. Do you think they took off a bottom of the stay cable guide to braze on a top of the stay guide?

The bike is an early 80's Professional model, like I said in post #5. The serial number bears that out. The fork could be original, both flat and sloping were offered in the early 1980's.

Absolute rubbish.

The hole is a drainage hole. The over the top BB routing is original. Do you think they took off a bottom of the stay cable guide to braze on a top of the stay guide?

Please read my post again. I stated the top guides 'look' to have been added. As for the hole, drainage could be the reason, but on mine (exact shell, milling and all) a plastic guide was fixed through a hole exactly as in the photo the OP provided. Just a fact, so the hole served a different purpose at least in the case of my frame.

To the OP:

Top guides are obviously original, and I arrived at that conclusion by noting something I missed before: the top of chainstay cable stop for the rear derailleur. Doh! Getting old; not paying attention to detail!

How's that driveside rear dropout looking?

Both of you got valid points. The one thing that supports OFG's candidly expressed notion is that the chainstay cable stop is on top, amidst what appear to be virgin chrome.

Still, the BB lug is obviously repainted.

Edit: simul-posting with Drillium!!

As OFG states, the bike is a Professional.

I looked at Cadre and the numbers get it very close.

The owner of the lbs I'm at says it is an '82.

Close enough for me.

Please read my post again. I stated the top guides 'look' to have been added. As for the hole, drainage could be the reason, but on mine (exact shell, milling and all) a plastic guide was fixed through a hole exactly as in the photo the OP provided. Just a fact, so the hole served a different purpose at least in the case of my frame.

The hole is for drainage and then it WAS used for a plastic Vitus guide that popped into the hole (and still allowed drainage) during a brief transition period to brazed on, and then cast in, under BB guides. Around 83 or 84 I think.

vjp

I apologize if my 'candidness' was a bit harsh, but stating ill thought out opinion as fact rankles me a bit.

Jan can vouch that I am an irritable old grouch.

My 83/84 Professional also has the Telekom Paint job and I also assumed that it had been repainted at one time but mine has the italicized Eddy Merckx font and not the "bubble" font.

The "spear point" design was being used quite early, I wonder if EM suggested to use these colors to Telekom because he liked them (and they were available and not being used by another team) as he had painted bikes in these colors before?

vjp

There were no Eddy Merckx "company" built bikes in the 70's, They started in 1980. All previous Eddy Merckx "branded" bikes were built by other companies (Falcon, Kessells, Colnago, etc).

This is an Eddy Merckx from the early 80's.

Great bike in really sad shape. Won't take too much to get it back to the condition it deserves to be in except for maybe the drop out. Not sure how much of a problem that's going to be. I hope you get to ride the heck out of it.

Could the “8470” serial mean that the frame is 1984 production?

I am no expert but the dropouts look short for a '70 frame, and was the right one repaired?
Yup. And not a very good repair, either, by the looks of it. What does the inside face of that dropout look like, I wonder? I'm not seeing very good brass penetration on the outside. I suspect it won't last long with use.

Absolute rubbish.

The hole is a drainage hole. The over the top BB routing is original. Do you think they took off a bottom of the stay cable guide to braze on a top of the stay guide?
Do other Merckx frames of this model have a hole there as well? If not, I suspect it was added after the fact by somebody who wanted to go all high-fashion and route the cables under the shell, but didn't want to bother with drew-ing off the original guides.

Do other Merckx frames of this model have a hole there as well? If not, I suspect it was added after the fact by somebody who wanted to go all high-fashion and route the cables under the shell, but didn't want to bother with drew-ing off the original guides.

Yes, they do have the hole.

Could the “8470” serial mean that the frame is 1984 production?No. I have an 83-84 and the serial is higher. Gomango is most likely spot on with 1982 as a build date.

Yes, you're right i was convinced the closeups would do, but how wrong i was.

I'll post pix of the entire bike asap.

Try taking the pics outside and without using a flash, too.

Do other Merckx frames of this model have a hole there as well? If not, I suspect it was added after the fact by somebody who wanted to go all high-fashion and route the cables under the shell, but didn't want to bother with drew-ing off the original guides.

Yes, other Merckx's with over the top cabling have the same hole, as do later ones, as correctly referenced by vjp.

The bike is most likely an '82, and in sad shape. The braze ons are all original, even the 2 water bottle and FD.

Unless the OP pops back in, this is the provebial dead horse.

I'm liking the tires. Wonder if they are still good. They look speedy.

Allright to reply to the request in making full pix here they are.

First of all many thanks to all who anticipated in this topic it's much appreciated.
Some q'ns on our site still remain and here are a few that still puzzle us.

- how do you know it's a 82 profesional (where is the proof how to know by looking at the bike)
- is the fd bracket welded to the frame original
- the rear 2 bottleholders are added later in the 90's when the frame had a repaint job to what it is now and we suspect the fd bracket was added too
- the rear dropout was welded as the former owner informed us about it so no hidden agenda here.
- can anybody please give a list of what is the right part and what not for this year/model merckx
(the crank is wrong and should be a campa strada if i'm right) but what else

More q'n undoubtly will arise with the answers and we love to seem 'em coming again.

So far good word everybody it's much appreciated

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4767_4.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4766_3.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4765_2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4764_1.jpg

Allright to reply to the request in making full pix here they are.

First of all many thanks to all who anticipated in this topic it's much appreciated.
Some q'ns on our site still remain and here are a few that still puzzle us.

- how do you know it's a 82 profesional (where is the proof how to know by looking at the bike)
- is the fd bracket welded to the frame original
- the rear 2 bottleholders are added later in the 90's when the frame had a repaint job to what it is now and we suspect the fd bracket was added too
- the rear dropout was welded as the former owner informed us about it so no hidden agenda here.
- can anybody please give a list of what is the right part and what not for this year/model merckx
(the crank is wrong and should be a campa strada if i'm right) but what else

More q'n undoubtly will arise with the answers and we love to seem 'em coming again.

So far good word everybody it's much appreciated

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4767_4.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4766_3.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4765_2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/100_4764_1.jpg

How is it a 1982 Professional?

Good question. The fellow that told me raced Merckx and Bianchi bikes for 12 years, and has owned a local racing shop for 20.

I didn't even bother to ask why, as I take most bike and travel related matters from him as gospel.

Yep, its the proverbial friend of a friend id process.

Usually works well on this forum. :)

...and do you want to know gruppo details for a Professional or for a Corsa Extra that used the Telekom colors?

Also, try the link for http://www.tearsforgears.com/

Loads of eye candy and helpful information.

With these pix i hope some can explain what parts are correct en what not.

The rearderr. reads pat. 84

Thanks in advance

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/10-2.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/9.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/8-2.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/7-2.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/6-3.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/5-3.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/4-3.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/3-4.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/1-4.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z177/2yummy/8-2.jpg
Made in Belgium? A Kessels-built Merckx, perhaps?

After having contact with the merckx company there reply was it's a 83 professional and sold as a framekit.

Thats a rough bike, very rough. Dont pay too much if you havent already.