Commuting - Civia Bryant with Belt Drive anyone?

I've been keeping my eye on the Civia Bryant with belt drive for some time. It looks like close to my ideal commuter. The frame has almost exactly the same geometry as my current touring bike I use for commuting, and I know that fits me well. The Bryant frame has eyelets for front and rear racks. I like the idea of lower maintenance belt drive and internal gears. I think the swappable drop outs on the frame make it very versatile. Disc brakes are a plus too. The only thing I don't like is 32h hubs. I don't understand why 36h hubs weren't selected.

Does anyone own one? Universal Cycles recently got a few in stock and I was close to buying one, but currently they are sold out again.

The bryant was on my shortlist, before I went with the Norco Vesta.

I think the Bryant is pretty ideal as a commuter and the next round of bikes will be built up in the next 6 weeks or so (based on my last conversation with the folks a t Civia, 2-3 weeks ago).

I saw one at the LBS. spontaneous salivating ensued, and I ride a Trek Soho with a belt drive.

It's a beautiful bike, with drop bars and everything. If it had the 11-gear Shimano hub or Rohloff (and 28mm tires) it would be the perfect commuter.

expensive though...

The bike made my short list, as well... but when the local Civia dealer told me how much it would cost, I sadly had to strike it from my list.

I took the plunge and pre-ordered one, before they'd actually made any. Have been riding it about a month, loving it. Was previously riding a Trek Portland.

One criticism of the spec is that the bb5 brakes are a bit pants - am in the process of replacing with bb7s. The bike is otherwise a very smooth and comfy ride, not had a chance to do a long ride on it yet but it definitely feels like a bike I could put in a lot of miles on.

Looking forward to the alfine 11 too, definitely the 8 is missing a little range at the top end compared to the Portland but not so much I feel it's a hardship (and I did know this going in.) It's gonna be a while before the 11 is widely available though and it'll need someone to produce a drop bar shifter for it too, so I'm not holding my breath.

I took delivery of my Civia Bryant on June 25. Other than the bottom bracket squeaking that my LBS can't solve, it's a sweet ride. I expect to ride it to work every day.

So does anyone have pictures of this special bike?

There are some nice pics here: http://www.ecovelo.info/2009/12/29/first-look-civia-bryant-2/

And some more here: http://www.ecovelo.info/2010/01/03/short-term-road-test-civia-bryant/

BTW EcoVelo is a pretty good site for reviews (IMHO, YMMV).

Received mine in May but had only ordered the frame and built up the rest myself. The only thing I have had a problem with is I have yet to be able to get the horizontal dropouts for it so have been stuck using a tensioner for the time being.

I also prefer the chain to the belt as I like to swap out different chain rings etc.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2jbrsj4.jpg

http://www.ecovelo.info/images/civia-bryant-01-485.jpg

Hot Damn! That's dandy!

Received mine in May but had only ordered the frame and built up the rest myself. The only thing I have had a problem with is I have yet to be able to get the horizontal dropouts for it so have been stuck using a tensioner for the time being.

I also prefer the chain to the belt as I like to swap out different chain rings etc.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2jbrsj4.jpg


Nice! I like the hammered fenders on there.

I read somewhere that it weighed about 30 lbs. I'm curious why, since my old low-end (200 GS components) steel hybrid weighs that much. Steel handlebars, crankset, brake levers, stem, etc. Where's all that weight coming from?

I read somewhere that it weighed about 30 lbs. I'm curious why, since my old low-end (200 GS components) steel hybrid weighs that much. Steel handlebars, crankset, brake levers, stem, etc. Where's all that weight coming from?

I was wondering about this myself. The EcoVelo review lists the weight at 30.5 pounds. My guess would be that the IGH hub accounts for a good chunk of that weight. Disc compatible frames tend to be fairly heavy too. Even so, I find myself wondering if the listed weight includes the rack and fenders.

My aforementioned bike is 31 lbs or so with fenders (Freddy Fenders), no rack. That includes, though, the heavy chunk of metal that is the Adams Trail-A-Bike Hitch so that probably can take the place of a IGH; I'd bet it at least makes up the difference especially since the drivetrain is not what I'd call modern and lightweight. The difference of an IGH is said to be a pound or so. A rack is, what, a pound maybe? Are they using *really* heavy fenders? Are discs really that much heavier? Curious.

Purchased my CBA in August from Universal and commute daily 26-30 miles round trip. This is my first dedicated commuter and it has done a great job. A few notes:
-It took awhile to get the Alfine hub/Gates belt dialed-in. I was new to IGHs and the learning curve for adjustment was steep. Likewise was belt tension. Had it too slack for awhile and it would jump teeth under load. Had it too tight for awhile and the hub would make noise.
-BB5 brakes are doing just fine. I had heard complaints, but I've been fully loaded (dual Ortlieb panniers plus my 200#s) at 25mph when a car turned in front of me. Full stopped before I hit him - straight and true - no drama.
-You can put too much torque thru the hub. Alfine hubs are purported to be bulletproof, but I have destroyed the freewheel mechanism of mine (Shimano replacing under warranty). Don't know what to think about this situation yet. The hub has 2,000 miles on it.
-Michelin City tires failed me. Both had sidewall blowouts. One was dramatic, like a gun shot, on a curb crossing. The other was slow. Replaced both with Bontrager Race Lite Hardcases. They have much lower rolling resistance but less traction.

I have done a few centuries with the bike and it could use a lower first gear as well as a higher top gear. I plan on upgrading to the Alfine 11 when it and a brifter come out.

178125
Here is a picture of the beast before the front Michelin gave out. I have added a Topeak rack and Civia plastic fenders as well as the Civia double stand. Latest add was an Ortlieb handlebar bag that matches the Ortlieb-made Civia panniers.

The only thing I don't like is 32h hubs. I don't understand why 36h hubs weren't selected.

Does anyone own one? Universal Cycles recently got a few in stock and I was close to buying one, but currently they are sold out again.
I've been to Universal and looked at their floor model. It is indeed one sharp bike. I don't know your specifics, but unless you're doing loaded touring, I wouldn't sweat the 32h wheels.

I weigh ~180, my bike is 50 pounds when fully kitted for commuting or distance, with 32h 700c disc wheels. I am severely unkind to these wheels: ride down stairs, jump off curbs, pop wheelies/stoppies, hop over obstacles (and sometimes still hit them). Still going strongly after almost 10000 miles of this nastiness. And Universal built my front wheel; I built my rear.

...You can put too much torque thru the hub. Alfine hubs are purported to be bulletproof, but I have destroyed the freewheel mechanism of mine (Shimano replacing under warranty). Don't know what to think about this situation yet. The hub has 2,000 miles on it.
-Michelin City tires failed me. Both had sidewall blowouts. One was dramatic, like a gun shot, on a curb crossing. The other was slow. Replaced both with Bontrager Race Lite Hardcases. They have much lower rolling resistance but less traction...
Curious on a couple of points: What exactly do you mean by "freewheel mechanism"? Was the hub itself rendered inoperable? I am asking because I have a Gates belt drive/Alfine setup on my Norco Ceres and I managed to shear off the tangs that allow the rear cog to interface with the hub. Norco replaced the part under warranty, but it's made from aluminum so may fail again under stress. Gates now makes a steel cog but all of the current parts are earmarked for production bikes and there is no stock of replacement parts as of yet. I have been in contact with Gates and they assured me that they will replace any aluminum cogs that I manage to destroy before the steel ones become available. So far the second cog is holding up fine.

Secondly, what model of Michelin tires were you using? I have a set of Pilot Citys on another bike and I had a couple of blowouts, but I had been running them at the max pressure of 85 psi. I now run them at 65F/75R with no problems. They are very sticky and flat-resistant; no puncture-related flats since purchase.

I have to confess I am currently running my Bryant with a chain. Further to the comments about getting the belt dialed in, I could never get it to stop creaking, despite reading & trying just about every possible thing that could affect it (belt tension, wheel alignment, greasing BB/crank interfaces etc). It was supposed to be a low-maintenance drivetrain but I spent far too much of my free time tweaking it. The IGH on the other hand is easy to set up.

The chain also allows me to run somewhat taller gearing (45/20) which suits me a little better, and with a chainguard (which the bike came with, even with a belt) I'm not losing much. I still love the bike - it's handsome, very practical and a great ride. I also knew the belt-drive was something of a gamble going in - but I still very much like the idea of having a frame designed with different drivetrains in mind in the way that the Bryant is.

ircclean's story about the sprocket is interesting. Having had the drivetrain apart on mine, ISTM the spline on the Alfine might be designed such that the sprocket breaks before the hub internals do in the event of too much torque. It basically has three fairly shallow rounded splines, rather than many square splines. It's possible that the alu Gates sprockets that worked great on a singlespeed hub with a conventional spline ran afoul of this on the Alfine hub.

I might give the belt another try when the CenterTrack stuff becomes more widely available - I kind of see CenterTrack as something of an admission that the first version of this system was flawed (especially combined with the materials change for the sprocket.)

...ircclean's story about the sprocket is interesting. Having had the drivetrain apart on mine, ISTM the spline on the Alfine might be designed such that the sprocket breaks before the hub internals do in the event of too much torque. It basically has three fairly shallow rounded splines, rather than many square splines. It's possible that the alu Gates sprockets that worked great on a singlespeed hub with a conventional spline ran afoul of this on the Alfine hub.

I might give the belt another try when the CenterTrack stuff becomes more widely available - I kind of see CenterTrack as something of an admission that the first version of this system was flawed (especially combined with the materials change for the sprocket.)
I'm sorry to hear that your experience with the belt drive was negative. While I do find that mine creaks a little, overall it's quieter than my chain-driven bikes. As for single speed cogs, AFAIK they are the traditional 9-spline design and are therefore inherently stronger than the IGH offerings. Also, traditional rear cogs for IGHs are made of steel and their 3-spline design has withstood the test of time. Apparently, however, aluminum versions of said design will not handle the torque created by a rider of my stature.

I am also hoping to eventually retrofit my bike to the CenterTrack system.

....ircclean's story about the sprocket is interesting. Having had the drivetrain apart on mine, ISTM the spline on the Alfine might be designed such that the sprocket breaks before the hub internals do in the event of too much torque....

Never attribute forethought when stupidity will do. In this case, Gates messed up on a 100 year old system. The three tange sprocket has been standard on Sturmey Archer, SACHS, Bendix, Shimano and many other manufacturers. The mistake was going cheap and using all aluminum, they've fixed it but to screw exisiting customers isn't right.

Never attribute forethought when stupidity will do. In this case, Gates messed up on a 100 year old system. The three tange sprocket has been standard on Sturmey Archer, SACHS, Bendix, Shimano and many other manufacturers. The mistake was going cheap and using all aluminum, they've fixed it but to screw exisiting customers isn't right.
I've been in touch with Gates and a representative got back to me, assuring me that I would be taken care of (i.e., with replacement cogs) until such time as the steel cogs become available to the general public. Ideally I would like to see them offer a free retrofit to their new CenterTrack design... or at least a substantial discount.

I believe that the part that failed was the ratchet and pawl freewheel mechanism in the hub. My LBS said that after troubleshooting w/ Shimano, they are sending a new set of internals for the hub. I don't know if I'll find out exactly what failed. I should have the bike back tomorrow. If allowed to examine the hub carcass, I'll let you know.

Regarding the Michelins, I was running the Civia Bryant-standard Michelin City 700x32s. I too ran them at 85 psi., any lower and the rolling resistance was noticeable. Me + rig is about 250 lbs. and the roads/trails/curbs here can be torturous.

The Bryant looks incredible. It's unfortunate that there is no Bryant frame (and Hyland as well) available with a 700-710mm standover height.

First centertrack with alfine 11 may be the spot acme. Any guesses on the price? The prototype is shown with disc brakes. http://plixi.com/p/46249331

Wonder if it will have the simple tension system spot has moved to with its newer belt drive bikes.

Pic of the Acme's rear setup: http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gates-belt-drive-spot-brand-fixed-gear-bicycle02-600x450.jpg

Looks unique to the Acme.

Got an update from my LBS. Seems that while installing a new set of innards sent to the shop by Shimano, the technician discovered that the aluminum tangs as discussed here are the parts that failed. It's adding an additional 4 days to the repair time! It'll be nice to have a new IGH and sprocket, but I've been off of my bike for over a week and a half. This is my primary means of commuting and not having it is a real hassle. I don't think that the bike infrastructure yet supports a car free life. That is, of course, unless you have a backup bike. I don't

Got an update from my LBS. Seems that while installing a new set of innards sent to the shop by Shimano, the technician discovered that the aluminum tangs as discussed here are the parts that failed. It's adding an additional 4 days to the repair time! It'll be nice to have a new IGH and sprocket, but I've been off of my bike for over a week and a half. This is my primary means of commuting and not having it is a real hassle. I don't think that the bike infrastructure yet supports a car free life. That is, of course, unless you have a backup bike. I don't
You might want to contact Gates directly at carbondrive@gates.com. I did and, as I mentioned above, the response was postive. I think the more stories that they hear about this aluminum cog failure might help to light a fire under their butts to get the steel replacements onto the market.

A question to any Civia Alfine owners...

Exactly what crank, bb and spindle length are used?

I'm doing an Alfine converion on my SS belt drive and am having issues with the belt line.

OK, here's an odd question. I'm planning to build THE BIKE in 2011--you know, the one that will be perfect in every way so I can stop buying bikes ;) The Bryant has absolutely everything I want, except the smallest size is 49cm. I'm normally in the 46-47cm range. According to Civia's website, the closest dealer is nearly a 3 hour drive from me, so trying one out is not an option. Is it possible to build one of these up with 650b or 26" wheels, and if so, would it make much of a difference in standover height?

I guess I'm also basing this off the fact that my girlfriend has a 49cm Steamroller that's a tad too tall for me. But the top tube on the Bryant slopes gently, so it's possible it wouldn't be a problem...I don't know.

With more than a year of real world experience behind the belt drive, and the introduction of steel sprockets for the original system, do you think the new centerline system will have a steel counterpart for igh driven bikes?

The Spot acme in the pics above is show with what looks like an aluminum sprocketed centerline belt drive.

You might want to contact Gates directly at carbondrive@gates.com. I did and, as I mentioned above, the response was postive. I think the more stories that they hear about this aluminum cog failure might help to light a fire under their butts to get the steel replacements onto the market.


I just had the same failure of the Gates all-aluminum cog that's been described here by others. I have about 1000 miles on a 3-month old Civia Bryant and while pedaling up a small hill, heard a pop and thereafter couldn't power the back wheel in any gear. Checking the bike after a six mile walk back home, I had sheared the three aluminum tangs on the cog. I emailed Gates at the address above last Thursday but haven't heard anything back. Took the bike back the shop where I bought it and they're handling the repair.

Don't know why Gates and/or Civia didn't recall this part - it seems irresponsible to me. I don't know how long my bike had been in the shop before I bought it but Gates clearly has know about this issue for over a year now.

Exactly what crank, bb and spindle length are used?
Alfine crank is External BB and the spindle is fixed in the right crank arm..
Gates kit offers a different chainring to bolt on.

Don't know why Gates and/or Civia didn't recall this part - it seems irresponsible to me. I don't know how long my bike had been in the shop before I bought it but Gates clearly has know about this issue for over a year now.

I am a week away from getting my new Bryant 58cm. I decided (after test-riding a Kingfield] that I would eventually want to upgrade most of the parts on the off-the-shelf Bryant Alfine, so I had my LBS pull together the parts I really wanted (like Alfine 11, dynamo, upright bars, 36h rims, and CenterTrack. Gates CenterTrack is MIA right now (problems getting shipment of rear pulleys) and they are out of (or won't sell) the old pulleys. I am starting to wonder if the problem getting the rear pulleys for the GTX system (CenterTrack) has something to do with the CDS (original) pulley problems. Instead of waiting another three months (that's how long I have been waiting for CenterTrack) -- I am going to get my bike with an "old fashioned" chain using 44 front chainring and 22 rear cog (out-of-shape legs vs. San Francisco hills), and swap out the three parts for CenterTrack when Gates is up to speed with their supply chain.

Too rich for my blood, but it sure does look nice. Switch out the hub for a Rohloff or Alfine-11 and it would make a great touring bike also.

As mentioned previously I built my own custom ti belt drive bike with an alfine8. Only recently did my gates 24t alfine pulley start to die. It was made up of the pulley, snap ring and the 3 lug internal. The internal 3 lug is what gave way, started with a little movement then gradually got worse to around 4mm of radial movement. No sheering or violent breakage. Probably only had about 4000km on it, however it was replaced without question by gates Europe (they've always been super helpful). The replacement is a newly designed one piece unit, but can't comment on it as i went back to a ss belt setup.

If anyone is suffering from creaking, try dropping your crankset bolts in some engine oil.

I just had the same failure of the Gates all-aluminum cog that's been described here by others.

I also had the same failure, just over a week ago. I'd put in about 2000km on my Bryant with the belt (I switched to a chain for a while and then switched back.) Mine failed just pedalling hard to make a traffic light, luckily I was only a couple of blocks from my office. Ironically while I was standing there by the side of the Hornby Street bike lane wondering what the hell just happened, a couple of people came to ask me about the bike.

I mailed carbondrive@gates.com and got a reply within 24 hours, saying they'd replace the part for free, so you might want to try again. I did include a picture of the sheared part, so that might help.

I'm guessing Gates didn't recall the part because there was a hope that the failures only occurred with heavier riders, and that most parts wouldn't fail. But if true it does seem that hope was misplaced, I'm only 170lbs, though living in North Vancouver I am grinding my way up hills pretty frequently - but it does seem likely that all of these sprockets will fail eventually and probably sooner rather than later.

If anyone is suffering from creaking, try dropping your crankset bolts in some engine oil.

+1 to this. I haven't tried this exact technique, but I had problems with creaking for a long time but ultimately after quite a bit of experimenting I traced the problem to the chainring bolts. You definitely need to pay more attention to torque and greasing with them than on a chain drivetrain.

You can see in this video how my rear pulley failed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFgmpEf1M8

You can imagine the click-clack on every crank rotation :notamused: and the change in belt tension.

I ride one.
Here is my assessment.
The belt and the Alfine = super low maintenance. I can feel a little power loss with the belt, but it is silent and easy to maintain (especially with snowy, rainy, muddy commutes)
The shifter is adequate but is not nearly as responsive as what I am used to.
The BB5 brakes work poorly with road levers. They are awful to adjust. I suggest upgrading to BB7s as I did. (BB7s are great btw).
The frame is not light. This combined with the weighty rear hub, make for a heavy bike.
Bike handles heavy loads (40 lbs of groceries) comfortably.
The bike is not very fun or zippy, but the ease of maintenance, comfortable geometry, and all-weather stopping BB7s make it the best commuting bike that I have owned.
If I were to do it all over again, I would consider the Trek Soho Deluxe as well. For the time being, internal hub gearing and crappy disc brakes work better with flat bars.

I ride one.
Here is my assessment.
The belt and the Alfine = super low maintenance. I can feel a little power loss with the belt, but it is silent and easy to maintain (especially with snowy, rainy, muddy commutes)
The shifter is adequate but is not nearly as responsive as what I am used to.
The BB5 brakes work poorly with road levers. They are awful to adjust. I suggest upgrading to BB7s as I did. (BB7s are great btw).
The frame is not light. This combined with the weighty rear hub, make for a heavy bike.
Bike handles heavy loads (40 lbs of groceries) comfortably.
The bike is not very fun or zippy, but the ease of maintenance, comfortable geometry, and all-weather stopping BB7s make it the best commuting bike that I have owned.
If I were to do it all over again, I would consider the Trek Soho Deluxe as well. For the time being, internal hub gearing and crappy disc brakes work better with flat bars.

I am thinking of buying one. Your review has been really helpful. Thanks.

I am asking the bike shop to quote for upgrade to BB7 disc brakes as the BB5s are crap and also Alfine 11 spd. I would ultimately like Rohloff but at this present time it is too costly.

The Bryant is named after a lovely bike boulevard in South Minneapolis: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6110/6361686495_1069f730d8_z.jpg

If anyone is interested, I saw that my LBS had the Kingsfield (lower end Belt Drive by Civia) on closeout in medium-larger size. $830 http://thehubbikecoop.org/products-page/bikes/civia-kingfield/

Alfine group, on Shimano's site shows a Hydraulic disc..

Alfine group, on Shimano's site shows a Hydraulic disc..

...but the Civia Bryant has drop handlebars, which basically rules out hydros especially when combined with the need for an Alfine-compatible shifter. Hence mechanical disk brakes.

Of course, if you go to a flat bar, then you can use hydros. But perhaps in that case you wouldn't want to start from a Civia Bryant - unless you really, really loved steel, a Spot Acme might be a better choice.