Touring - It's done! My Koga-Miyata just got its finishing piece

It took me a while to do this one...and I was waiting on the low riders for months...but I think it was worth the wait.

I present to you...my 1991 Koga-Miyata Traveler:

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1219.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1220.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1222.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1221.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1223.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1224.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1225.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1226.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1227.jpg


I used most of a 105 triple group...which means I'll need to change the 3rd ring and rear cassette for true loaded touring. Modolo bars and stem...Dia-Compe 982 Gran-Compe cantis...Brooks copper B-17...Campagnolo Athena seat post...tubus stainless steel racks...Honjos...and a few random things here and there.

Could you show how the front low rider rack works? i.e. with a pannier on it? Thanks

Absiolutely...I'll post a shot tonight...

I have a pretty extreme angle on it because the skewer neccessitated it.

I was wondering the same thing, shouldn't the top support be level with the ground?

By the way, nice bike.

I positioned the thumb paddle on my identical bell such that the thumb pad is parallel to the ground, and thus close enough to the bar that I can flick it while in the tops.

I was wondering the same thing, shouldn't the top support be level with the ground?

By the way, nice bike.

I would have liked to have done it that way, but it wasn;t possible. The site I bought them from also mentions that angled set up isn't an issue, and I put some medium sized panniers on it last night as an experiment, and it seemed to work fine (granted empty and without being ridden). I've actually seen them angled before on other bikes.

Looks like you would want to move the front rack so that one of the eyelets just ahead and above the skewer is move down to fasten to the braze-on behind the skewer. Then the brace to your fender should attach to the eyelet you are currently using to connect to the fork. The rack should then clear the skewer and sit behind it. Then move the upper cross brace to the lower connection point and your rack should be way closer to horizontal.

I tried that and it didn't clear the skewer...I'll play with it a little more, but this is the best position I was able to find. I also don't see a problem with having an angle to it.

Definetly on the wrong eyelet. Not sure whether that is a "problem" or not, but it is hard to see how the attachments would be properly loaded. Might work reasonably well with the plastic hardware newer paniers have but it would load mine at a single stitch rather than spreading the load over many stitches.

I don't see anything weird enough about your fork to justify that angle. You have such a nicely appointed bike the rack thing would drive me crazy.

http://www.thetouringstore.com/TUBUS/Nova/Tubus%20Nova%20Bicycle%20Rack%202.jpg

Like this. Attachment should easily clear skewer.

http://www.thetouringstore.com/TUBUS/Nova/Tubus%20Nova%20Bicycle%20Rack%202.jpg

I follow what you're saying (I think)...I can;t view my photos of the bike at work, and I don't have it in front of me. I'm fairly sure I have the fenders to the eyelet in that link. I'll play a bit more tonight and see if I can find a better position. Everything I read said not to worry about an angle (including at the touring store), so I didn't want to rearrange the fenders.

I did buy these racks at the touring store...and am very glad I did.

Everything I read said not to worry about an angle (including at the touring store), so I didn't want to rearrange the fenders.

I doubt they are talking about tilt that severe. For clarification, check out the installation instructions at:
http://www.tubus.com/images/stories/downloads/maergo_nova.pdf

Pretty bike btw.

Thanks all...i will work on it tonight and report back with progress.

Agree on rack angle - that just doesn't look right. Depending on the pannier attachment system the angle may put more force on the downslope attachment point than it likes. I know one of my panniers would grumble about that angle of carriage.

Somewhat related to this thread, does anyone know of a decent quality low rider front rack which is designed to work with forks that have an eyelet both fore and aft of the skewer? Few forks have the extra forward eyelet, and it seems most rack makers don't bother providing extra mounting holes as a result. I'd like to replace my ageing Blackburn lowriders on my 84 Miyata 1000 with a rack that sensibly allows me to use the fork's front eyelets for the rack, and rear eyelets for my fender stays.

As others have said, you mounted the rack incorrectly.

mount the front rack mounting holes to the rear fork eyelets.

It will work, I promise.

The bike is lovely! Nice build, it deserves a level rack :)

What's that on the driveside cs? Is that a protector?
Nice bike by the way, love it...

The rear eyelet has the fenders attached to it. I will play with this again when I get home...maybe both can share an eyelet.

Crimson...yes, it's a guard against chain slap...the Miyata 1000s had them too.

To clear your QR skewers, your rack Should be mounted a bit further outboard,
away from the dropout eyelet but bolted to it. ..
You need some tube stand-off spacers, about an inch/25mm long and longer bolts.
aluminum is a good material for the spacers ...

use one of the 2 holes forward , above the weld joint for the ovaled brace, then mount the mudguard strut
where you currently have the rack mounted to the fork eyelet.

there are 2 sets of places to screw the top bar tube at the front ,
onto the hoop, rest of the rack.
and 2 places to bolt the rear of the top tube of the rack to the fork.

you should be able to level the rack, then.
you may want to add a spacer to the mid fork mount also.

the rack tubes should be as wide at the back as they are at the front, parallel to each other.

why don't you use pitlock scewers instead of quick realase.
lovely bike though ride safe and enjoy really nice job.

The rear eyelet has the fenders attached to it. I will play with this again when I get home...maybe both can share an eyelet.


mount the rack to the frame using the front holes on the rack.
mount the fenders to the rack using the back holes on the rack.

The holes you are currently using to mount the bottom of the rack, were actually designed as points to mount fenders... Not for attaching the rack to the fork.

To clear your QR skewers, your rack Should be mounted a bit further outboard,
away from the dropout eyelet but bolted to it. ..
You need some tube stand-off spacers, about an inch/25mm long and longer bolts.
aluminum is a good material for the spacers ...


wrong answer. you do not need 1 inch spacers to properly mount this rack... that would be a recipe for broken bolts. (assuming you could even spread the rack by 50mm- which i highly doubt.)

When correctly mounted, the rack's tubing will be behind the skewer (see picture in post #10). You might be limited with the position/angle of the quick-release lever (ie: it might point to say 2-3 o'clock when clamped shut) but this is inconsequential as far as function of the QR is concerned....

look at pic in post 10.

It shouldn't be problem mounting both the rack and the fender mounts to the same eyelet (though not required with this particular rack. Most people report that they can get a solid rack attach even if the eyes on the fender struts are just looped and not welded. I prefer to replace the looped eye with solid ends by welding on a fitting or brazing the eye full of silver and then shaping it.

I use 8.8 tempered steel 5x.8mm bolts and have never had a problem, there are a number of different steels used for bolts ,
the type of bolts used to hold the cylinder head onto the engine block is a lot stronger than the steel used to hold the taillight lens on.

My '04 Koga Miyata WTR a Factory assembly , uses aluminum tube spacers at top and bottom of the rack , Tubus Ergo, same rack basically just CroMo, powder coated and has a OEM special made 2nd KS mount under the left lowrider
to stabilize the load on the wheel when the main KS is used.


how long the spacer [a thick flatwasher essentially] is dictated by the width of the top front of the load tube to hoop width .

having the load plane for the panniers horizontal and parallel is the goal.

My prior One Off , touring bike has Bruce gordon's racks, I made Aluminum spacers out of solid stock for the setup.
getting the load rail away from the fork blade makes hanging the bags on them a simpler task,

particularly if you need to use rain covers they will hook on better with some space for the elastic.

Haha! We definitely need to get together sometime!
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad316/Giantbikeforsale/DSCN0647.jpg

Everyone...thanks for the help!!! Moving it to the same eyelet with the fender was easy with a spacer...I thought it would be challenging, but no problems at all...

Here it is:

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1230.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1231.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1232.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1233.jpg

great job but the one thing i don't like about those particular front rack is god forbid but if you go over the bars in a fall that loop over can and will push the fork back into the frame bike could suffer a lot of damage i seen it happen not a pretty sight.
sorry for the negative view but other than that you have a great looking bike .

Cant you re attach the horizontal bars to the lower holes on the U part of the rack? Should make it completely level.

Lovely bike.

I played a little more...the angle is now slightly the other way, but it's a little less sharp. Photos tonight.

looks great.

full bike pics :)

I have a suggestion. I hesitate to mention it, because bicycle setups are often a matter of preference, and I don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with yours. My suggestion is that you rotate your handlebars back. Let me tell you why I say that.

For decades I set my handlebars myself. I set them with the bottoms level with the ground. I did so because I thought they looked "right" that way, and because I thought that was how they were "supposed" to be set. (I don't know where I got that idea - is that the way bikes were set up in the 70's when I started working on mine? I don't know.) Then I'd mount the brakes so that the levers fell comfortably under my fingers when my hands were in the drops. At least that made sense.

Two summers ago I bought a Specialized Allez frame on Ebay. I wanted to build a "fast" bike (as opposed to my LHT tourer and my mountain bike.) I set up the bars the way I always had. When it was finished, I took it in to my local guy to buy a mirror. I was proud of my "creation" and asked him to check it out. He stood back and looked it over. I think he liked most of what he saw, but with wonderful tact he asked, "Do you like your handlebars set up that way?" I asked him what he meant. He said most people prefer the tops of their bars to be level, and to have the brake hoods where you can rest your hands against them. He said it made for a very comfortable position.

I decided to give it a try. What a difference! I used to have problems with hand pain and numbness on longer rides. No more! Riding with my hands on the tops of the bars is my most comfortable position now, and I can go much longer without needing to switch. If I slide forward an inch and put my hands against the hoods it's another comfortable position, with the added benefit that I'm more aerodynamic and I can shift my STI shifters without moving my hand postions.

The downside is that reaching the brake levers is a little more difficult, but it hasn't been a problem - especially since I installed shims (made by Specialized) that bring the levers closer to the bars.

I readjusted the setup on my LHT to match, and it has made a big difference on tours. Touring used to be really hard on my hands and wrists because of the number of successive long days of riding. There's no time to recover. I used to suffer a lot, and after one two-week tour my left hand was numb for a month afterwards. Now my pain is almost completely gone.

You're never too old to learn new tricks, if you keep an open mind. I thought I knew what I was doing, but I was very glad to find a better way.

Just a suggestion.

I have a suggestion. I hesitate to mention it, because bicycle setups are often a matter of preference, and I don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with yours. My suggestion is that you rotate your handlebars back. Let me tell you why I say that.

For decades I set my handlebars myself. I set them with the bottoms level with the ground. I did so because I thought they looked "right" that way, and because I thought that was how they were "supposed" to be set. (I don't know where I got that idea - is that the way bikes were set up in the 70's when I started working on mine? I don't know.) Then I'd mount the brakes so that the levers fell comfortably under my fingers when my hands were in the drops. At least that made sense.

Two summers ago I bought a Specialized Allez frame on Ebay. I wanted to build a "fast" bike (as opposed to my LHT tourer and my mountain bike.) I set up the bars the way I always had. When it was finished, I took it in to my local guy to buy a mirror. I was proud of my "creation" and asked him to check it out. He stood back and looked it over. I think he liked most of what he saw, but with wonderful tact he asked, "Do you like your handlebars set up that way?" I asked him what he meant. He said most people prefer the tops of their bars to be level, and to have the brake hoods where you can rest your hands against them. He said it made for a very comfortable position.

I decided to give it a try. What a difference! I used to have problems with hand pain and numbness on longer rides. No more! Riding with my hands on the tops of the bars is my most comfortable position now, and I can go much longer without needing to switch. If I slide forward an inch and put my hands against the hoods it's another comfortable position, with the added benefit that I'm more aerodynamic and I can shift my STI shifters without moving my hand postions.

The downside is that reaching the brake levers is a little more difficult, but it hasn't been a problem - especially since I installed shims (made by Specialized) that bring the levers closer to the bars.

I readjusted the setup on my LHT to match, and it has made a big difference on tours. Touring used to be really hard on my hands and wrists because of the number of successive long days of riding. There's no time to recover. I used to suffer a lot, and after one two-week tour my left hand was numb for a month afterwards. Now my pain is almost completely gone.

You're never too old to learn new tricks, if you keep an open mind. I thought I knew what I was doing, but I was very glad to find a better way.

Just a suggestion.

It is an excellent suggestion, and I do have a bike set up that way (my De Rosa), but I've found that's a bad positioning for climbing on the hoods and that I also typically like being more spread out/hunched over. It stretches out my back in a good way. I've experimented a lot with the Koga's positioning and I;ve come to the conclusion that the stem is too short (which will be remedied). When I had it the way you suggest, I was too vertical for my comfort. I tried emulating my road bike geometry with the stem (longer TT, shorter stem) but I've found that it's too short. The bar position is in part to stretch out more.

Nice bike!

It looks like the fender strut is underneath the rack mount? Not a good idea. The rack mount should be bolted directly to the brazeon or with the least amount of spacers possible.The more you move the mounting away from the brazeon,the more stress on the bolt and brazeon.In a perfect world,you do not want the rack mount cantilevered out.Put the fender strut on top of the rack mount or better yet,mount it to the hole on the rear of the rack.

I love those bikes!If my old Shogun dies,that's my next bike.

How about changing the location of the bolt on the upright?

http://img8.sellersourcebook.com/users/48510/photo1233_copy.jpg

Tom

This is the last and final tweak...it's good enough for me gosh dang it...

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1280.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Photo1279.jpg

Wait, one more change......... only kidding. Did I remember to mention that your bike looks great?

Tom

arent you glad that rack is more level :) !

Absolutely...and I very much appreciated everyone's advice and help.

If you want to fully level the top rail of the rack, Make a piece of metal for each side with 3 holes in it
These pieces will serve to compensate for the difference in where your fork braze on is and the height required to make it right.
two holes in the mounting tab on the top rail, + the one to bolt on the fork blade , by forming a triangle will be stable.

I Have used a piece of aluminum angle to do something like that before , leaving a little of the flange (other side of the angle stock) of the angle stiffened it nicely,
and served me well over thousands of miles..
Stainless steel for the plate pieces would be great .

Ah done... (IGNORE BELOW!)


I also don't see a problem with having an angle to it.

You don't see a problem yet because you haven't done any miles. The weighting on the panniers will be totally off, and unless the panniers have some super-heavy duty clips, you'll have a hard time keeping them on unless you stick only to perfect sealed tarmac or use a boat load of bungy straps. Also, if you have a decent amount of weight in the bags, the stress will likely be on the wrong points of the rack and could cause a breakage in the future. I can see heaps of problems. Just bodge something together, spacers, bit of metal with some holes drilled into it, it shouldn't be too difficult to fix really.

Even after the insane cost into this, I'd do it all again almsot exactly the same way. The one change I'd make is...I cheaped out and got a good donor bike for the wheels and 105 triple group...if I started over, I'd use Campy. It really is that much better on shifting...the STI is crap in comparison and the 105 levers are driving me nuts.

Looks great. To simplify removal of the fender in the future you can shorten the fender stays and use the eyelet on the back of the rack.
I love old touring bikes. I have 3.