Touring - Suggestions for good 29'er touring wheels

Hi need some suggestions for inexpensive but strong rims/hubs for 29'er, some offroad and on road riding, aiming for a lighter end of the spectrum load on the bike.

29'er is nothing but a 700c rim. Anything higher spoke count should be fine. You'll probably need 135mm rear hub spacing.

Hi need some suggestions for inexpensive but strong rims/hubs for 29'er, some offroad and on road riding, aiming for a lighter end of the spectrum load on the bike.

While yes, a 29'er is just a 700c wheel, many 29'er wheels are disc specific, so Aquakitty, you need to be more specific.

Disc or rim brake?

What size of tires are you considering?

What price range?



The question of strong and inexpensive comes up often for wheels. What's inexpensive to one is high to another.

MAVIC SpeedCity is a great wheelset
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=10760
I've used a set for about 5yrs

road wheels are not 29er's
road rims are not 29er rims

road wheels, and rims do share the same effective rim diameter as a 29er

the basic difference is rim width

altho, with a set of SpeedCity's I have used plenty of 29er MTB tyres, all the way up to 29x2.35"
and of course you can go down to 23c

here's a decent set for $170
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/WH400G00-Shimano+M525+Disc+Mavic+A317+29Er+Wheels.aspx?sc=FRGL

the thing with using a skinny rim with a MTB tire, and running the tire around 25psi, and riding the bike hard, is that there is a chance that the tire will slide/creep on the rim, which usually pulls the valve stem until it rips.

but if you keep the PSI up, and don't run the brakes super hard, the tires will more than likely stay put.

a wider rim (29er rim), will accommodate MTB tires at lower psi without creeping.
but then you trade off being able to use a set of 23c road tires.

goodness, can't go wrong with a Mavic A719 or a Sun Rhynolite laced to your hub of choice.

I rolled 36 hole XT disk hubs with Velocity Dyad rims for the Divide Trail with a 285 lb load - bike, gear and water. I'd take them on singletrack anytime. They'll run tires from 28mm to as wide as your frame will take.

Hi need some suggestions for inexpensive but strong rims/hubs for 29'er, some offroad and on road riding, aiming for a lighter end of the spectrum load on the bike.
you should also be thinking of a tubeless conversion... no flats.
use a latex sealant like Stan's.
http://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php
http://www.notubes.com/movie_newdemo.php


so you can either use a wheelset that is Tubeless ready
or you can do a conversion

basically the deal is to seal the spoke holes and valve stem
use latex sealant and it seals all the leaks
viola! no more flats... unless you happen to just rip the tire wide open, like slash a tire with a knife

the other method is to use a Tubeless ready wheelset, therefore no rim conversion needed
and/or use a "Tubeless tire"

in the world of MTB's, just about any tire/rim combo can be converted to tubeless.

for tires I'd suggest WTB Vulpines or Nanoraptors

Why would she benefit from tubeless tyres?
They only serve to prevent pinch flats and you make everything harder to replace/repair on the road...

Why would she benefit from tubeless tyres?
They only serve to prevent pinch flats and you make everything harder to replace/repair on the road...

not accurate

I've been running my 29er tubeless for sometime now
I just finished 1,000 miles along the Continental Divide, in the dirt, in 7 days
not a single flat

especially if you use a latex sealant, like Stans
see videos: http://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php
specially: http://www.notubes.com/movie_newdemo.php

once you've worked with it a little bit... its actually easier than using tubes

I know...
its crazy right?

the crazy part is that once you set up the tires, there really is no reason to remove them. More than likely they will always self seal.
personally, I like to rotate my tires, so I take them off every so often, simply break the bead, dump out the sealant, save it, remove tire(s), rotate, or change them...whatever, and add more sealant. you can use the old sealant, no problem.
I have a tendency to go between Vulpines and Nano's

I was using Tubeless on a set of CrossMax with Hutchinson Python UST around 2000, doing 24hr races... etc.
in those days there was no latex sealant
however, even then, I never got a flat, even tho I ran over a roofing nail once. somehow the way the a UST tire is made, the inside of the tire is kind of "goopy" <--- for lack of a better description and it sealed around the hole. Later I did end up patching the "tire", just like patching a tube, but instead you patch the tire from the inside.

now days, I run a set of CrossMax with either WTB Vulpines, or NanoRaptors
the tires are not UST
so I use a latex sealant
at the moment, I'm using Stans
not a single problem

its crazy

if I ever get flats, I don't know, because they simply seal up
its nothing like slime.

I've used Slime a bunch of times, and Tubeless with a latex sealant is much better.

I'm getting ready to try it with a set of WTB Thickslicks on the set of CrossMax that I have.

Specifically; with the Vulpines, I've ran from 20-50psi, no problems

50psi is plenty hard and fast for pavement
20psi in the front, for me, at 170lbs, is a bit squishy, 25psi is better
25-30psi in the rear, lets the tire conform to surfaces. i.e. mtb riding
on gravel roads, it totally rocks!
http://www.asanacycles.com/Asana_Cycles/10_TD/Entries/2010/6/12.html

road bikes are already going tubeless
a bunch of my buddies are running that set up.
I've only seen 1 time when the tire was totally cut, when the latex foam blew all over the place
otherwise, they simply self seal.

I know it sounds crazy
but quite honestly, with latex sealant, there almost is no reason to use inner tubes.

i suppose an issue is rim compatibility
so for instance as set of UST rims, i.e. MAVIC CrossMax wheelset
the rim is smooth on the inside, there are no spoke holes
no rim tape
just use the valve stem that is provided
use a UST tire
or use any MTB tire, probably can use a 32 or 28c road/touring/cx tire if you wanted, and add latex sealant, to seal the tire (casing)

if somehow, you get a huge flat, like this deck screw that went thru a Schwalbe Marathon Cross
simply break the bead, dump out the remaining latex, push out the tubeless valve stem, and replace with tube.

in the case of that huge deck screw, obviously I had to "boot" the carcass. I used a piece of vinyl that I found along side the hwy, as if it was a strip from a freezer warehouse door.

but then you trade off being able to use a set of 23c road tires.

Why would you even want to use a 23mm tire for loaded touring?

I love how you say they're not the same then give an example about how they work for MTB and road. :P As most do unless you're looking at racing wheels, but you're not going to find many of them in a 135mm hub now are you? :)

Why would you even want to use a 23mm tire for loaded touring?

I love how you say they're not the same then give an example about how they work for MTB and road. :P As most do unless you're looking at racing wheels, but you're not going to find many of them in a 135mm hub now are you? :)

its a reference to versatility of 29er wheelset

if I recall correctly the OP had stated that she's about 100lbs
if she was doing a paved tour at any point, with a very light load, like using CDW bags... she could get away with 23c tyres, especially i the Conti 4 Season realm.

While yes, a 29'er is just a 700c wheel, many 29'er wheels are disc specific, so Aquakitty, you need to be more specific.

Disc or rim brake?

What size of tires are you considering?

What price range?



The question of strong and inexpensive comes up often for wheels. What's inexpensive to one is high to another.

Disc

I like fat tires, was thinking of something close to a schwalbe marathon + for on and off road. I will not be using suspension so a little fatter tire is no problem.

Well, this is where it gets confusing. I would like to build my own wheels. I want to do this cheap as possible but within reason (I realise you get what you pay for) So I would have to buy the wheel truing gear as well. I want to do it but might be easier to just get prebuilt and tune them up, or get the LBS to put the pieces together. I do all my own bike mechanical stuff... except for building my own wheel so far.


MAVIC SpeedCity is a great wheelset
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=10760
I've used a set for about 5yrs

road wheels are not 29er's
road rims are not 29er rims

road wheels, and rims do share the same effective rim diameter as a 29er

the basic difference is rim width

altho, with a set of SpeedCity's I have used plenty of 29er MTB tyres, all the way up to 29x2.35"
and of course you can go down to 23c

here's a decent set for $170
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/WH400G00-Shimano+M525+Disc+Mavic+A317+29Er+Wheels.aspx?sc=FRGL

the thing with using a skinny rim with a MTB tire, and running the tire around 25psi, and riding the bike hard, is that there is a chance that the tire will slide/creep on the rim, which usually pulls the valve stem until it rips.

but if you keep the PSI up, and don't run the brakes super hard, the tires will more than likely stay put.

a wider rim (29er rim), will accommodate MTB tires at lower psi without creeping.
but then you trade off being able to use a set of 23c road tires.


Yea, not riding 23c is no issue, I will not likely ever be riding a tire that skinny, if I do it'll be a dedicated road bike.


its a reference to versatility of 29er wheelset

if I recall correctly the OP had stated that she's about 100lbs
if she was doing a paved tour at any point, with a very light load, like using CDW bags... she could get away with 23c tyres, especially i the Conti 4 Season realm.



Ha, the rear of my bike might be 100 lbs :D Loaded I would be over 200 lbs most likely.

building a wheel is not that hard
there are plenty of books out there
like you've said, you'll have to buy the tools, etc...

I'd be looking at a MAVIC 317 or any of the Stans

for 29er stuff you'd be better to lurk the MTBR.COM 29er forum

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

AC

I think the nightmare scenario would be a broken drive side spoke on a tubeless, or is it just a mater of spreading the goop aside and doing the repair, then putting it back? I also don't like the idea of depending on some stuff I know my tourside LBS won't have to keep my tire integrity, but if I could always just slap in a tube in the worst case, I wouldn't mind about that. What I like about the idea of tubeless is weight savings. The tubes I use are like 400g, and while there are lighter ones, they aren't all that great in a number of ways. Will I get significantly lighter weight along with the idea oa self-sealing. I would be up for that.

......road wheels, and rims do share the same effective rim diameter as a 29er......

Same bead seat diameter, not necessarily effective rim diameter (ERD).

Same bead seat diameter, not necessarily effective rim diameter (ERD).

your right, my gig... 622

AC

I think the nightmare scenario would be a broken drive side spoke on a tubeless, or is it just a mater of spreading the goop aside and doing the repair, then putting it back? I also don't like the idea of depending on some stuff I know my tourside LBS won't have to keep my tire integrity, but if I could always just slap in a tube in the worst case, I wouldn't mind about that. What I like about the idea of tubeless is weight savings. The tubes I use are like 400g, and while there are lighter ones, they aren't all that great in a number of ways. Will I get significantly lighter weight along with the idea oa self-sealing. I would be up for that.

the broken spoke problem:
i.e. I'm using a set of MAVIC CrossMax... if a spoke breaks, I'm probably SOL, unless I happen to have one with me. the LBS would probably have to order a spoke like that. As crazy as it seems, being that MAVIC is huge, and that most shops that I know of have MAVIC parts... but for a set of CrossMax? Maybe not. But then again, I've used other MAVIC spokes on other MAVIC wheels, like a spoke for a Ksyrium on my SpeedCity's

if it were a typical wheelset that is converted to Tubeless. i.e. by using the Stans conversion method, with their rim strip it could be a pain. The other way would be to use some strapping tape/electrical tape to make up the rim strip and use a tubeless valve stem. Then you could simply replace the spoke, replace the rim tape, and use an innertube.

you're right. The broken spoke issue could be a hassle.

I know it sounds crazy, but in this method you are really putting a lot of confidence in the entire wheel.
at first it made me nervous
but I have a lot of miles and a lot of years on MAVIC and WTB

at this point I don't hesitate to trust this setup.

a MTB wheelset is obviously designed for the rigors of a mountain bike.
CrossMax are designed for racing
any of the Stans wheels are also designed for that level of performance
honestly... touring in the "BikePacking" method is more than likely not going to place that kind of demand on the wheelset.

in my personal experiences of over 17 years, I have never had a problem with MAVIC
in the last 3 years, of all the tours, backcountry jaunts, races, etc... not a single problem with MAVIC

in my opinion, CrossMax with Vulpines or Nanos with latex sealant is a setup that is very hard to beat.

here's a very informative "tubeless" thread on MTBR.COM
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=406115

Aquakitty, I'd agree that wheel building is not that hard, but to make really good wheels, ones that stay true and round after they are built, that takes experience and skill. Myself, I pay to have this done from a dedicated professional, and I never need to touch them after I recieve them. So ..... there is a balancing act of cost(parts and labor), time(building and/or servicing your wheels for their life), and quality of the build(spokes, hubs and/or rims failing).

There's a lot to consider, starting with the hubs and rims. If you're building your own, you don't have to have a disc rim, so this widens your choices. A Mavic A119 or A319 may suit you, and can take 2" tires. I'm partial to Mavic rims because they seem to have good qaulity control, better than others. No one's perfect though.

For hubs, Shimano is probably best for your price range, parts are readily available, as you may need them.

Prebuilt wheels are attractive, but I always give pause to these because of their often proprietary nature and the prospect of parts down the road.

If you have the time, patience and skill, you can build your own easily. How they hold up though, depends on your knowledge applied to the build. Any Monkey can build a set of wheels, but it takes a skilled monkey to build a set that stands true and round after building them..

I would give one suggestion for a set of well made wheels that you will not have to true or touch after you receive them, check Rich Lesnick's hand built wheels at Rivendell. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/700c-wheels/18-102 They have a good selection, the ones with the A119 rims are $320 a pair , which is a very fair price. If you want wheels you may never have to true, get some from Rich.

Aquakitty, I'd agree that wheel building is not that hard, but to make really good wheels, ones that stay true and round after they are built, that takes experience and skill. Myself, I pay to have this done from a dedicated professional, and I never need to touch them after I recieve them. So ..... there is a balancing act of cost(parts and labor), time(building and/or servicing your wheels for their life), and quality of the build(spokes, hubs and/or rims failing).

There's a lot to consider, starting with the hubs and rims. If you're building your own, you don't have to have a disc rim, so this widens your choices. A Mavic A119 or A319 may suit you, and can take 2" tires. I'm partial to Mavic rims because they seem to have good qaulity control, better than others. No one's perfect though.

For hubs, Shimano is probably best for your price range, parts are readily available, as you may need them.

Prebuilt wheels are attractive, but I always give pause to these because of their often proprietary nature and the prospect of parts down the road.

If you have the time, patience and skill, you can build your own easily. How they hold up though, depends on your knowledge applied to the build. Any Monkey can build a set of wheels, but it takes a skilled monkey to build a set that stands true and round after building them..

I would give one suggestion for a set of well made wheels that you will not have to true or touch after you receive them, check Rich Lesnick's hand built wheels at Rivendell. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/700c-wheels/18-102 They have a good selection, the ones with the A119 rims are $320 a pair , which is a very fair price. If you want wheels you may never have to true, get some from Rich.

+1...GREAT POST!

To quote "Dirty" Harry Callahan..."A man's got to know his limitations". I stink at trueing or building wheels and it makes more long range sense to have an expert build them for me.

MAVIC SpeedCity is a great wheelset
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=10760
I've used a set for about 5yrs

road wheels are not 29er's
road rims are not 29er rims

road wheels, and rims do share the same effective rim diameter as a 29er

the basic difference is rim width

altho, with a set of SpeedCity's I have used plenty of 29er MTB tyres, all the way up to 29x2.35"
and of course you can go down to 23c

here's a decent set for $170
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/WH400G00-Shimano+M525+Disc+Mavic+A317+29Er+Wheels.aspx?sc=FRGL

the thing with using a skinny rim with a MTB tire, and running the tire around 25psi, and riding the bike hard, is that there is a chance that the tire will slide/creep on the rim, which usually pulls the valve stem until it rips.

but if you keep the PSI up, and don't run the brakes super hard, the tires will more than likely stay put.

a wider rim (29er rim), will accommodate MTB tires at lower psi without creeping.
but then you trade off being able to use a set of 23c road tires.

What is the lowest size tire you can use on a 29'r rim?

Aquakitty, if the Handspun production wheels are as good as what comes on the Surlys those would be a good value. The only way I think you'll find inexpensive, light AND quality will be through shopping and finding deals more than identifying lower cost parts where labor in construction is a large part of the quality of the wheel. If you're a light person I could see you'd be a candidate for the entry level Mavic wheelsets but I'm not familiar with their durability. A LARGE part of the weight in mtn bike wheels will be the tires. A side benefit to being a light person is that you don't need the fatter tires a heavier person needs so I'd suggest picking out light tires for the surfaces you're riding on as much you're looking for light wheels.

What is the lowest size tire you can use on a 29'r rim?

the concern is:
tire width vs rim width
in that the tire bead needs to adequately interface with the rim.

for instance on a set of Mavic SpeedCity wheels, the rim is 19mm wide, I've used 23c up to 2.35"
http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/speedcity.995624.1.aspx
the tire recommendations are 19c to 32c

MAVIC C29ssMax (29er CrossMax), I think the internal rim width is also 19mm... I have a set of WTB ThickSlicks, that I'm about to try out. 700x25c I'm thinking that this skinny of a tire is pushing the limit. I have yet to actually try this. (not recommended)

the widest 29er rim on the market is the Salsa Gordo, which are 35mm wide... probably the skinniest 700c tire I'd try on something like that is 37c... I think that would be pushing the limit tho. You could probably use a set of Freedom Ryder (by WTB) touring tires in 38c
http://www.freedombicycle.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,24/category_id,9/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,58/

really its dependent on what rim you choose.

as you can tell, I really like WTB and MAVIC.

if you look at the MAVIC website: http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/xm-819-disc.323320.2.aspx
in the product description, under dimensions the recommended tire widths are listed.
typically 1.50 to 2.30"

32c = 1.25"
35c = 1.38"
38c = 1.5"
42c = 1.65"
47c = 1.8"
50c = 2.0"
53c = 2.1"

while I seriously advocate paying attention to the MFG recommendations
I also point out that you might be able to use those recommendations as guidelines
you have to make that judgement call, and I suppose that is the part where experience comes in.

Schwalbe Marathon XR 700x40c comes in at 750g
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1320
40c, a little wider than 1.5"

WTB Vulpine 29x2.1" (50/52) comes in at 650g
http://www.wtb.com/products/tires/29er/vulpine29er/
50/52 is the height/width measure of the tire

so the 700x40c tire compared to the 29x2.1 tire is skinnier and not as tall
plus its 100g heavier

in pure milage, the Marathon XR will out last the Vulpine (altho I get about 3,000 miles out of a set of Vulpines, by rotating them regularly)
Marathon XR's rubber is harder and thicker compared to Vulpines
Vulpines are taller and wider

a tire with a taller sidewall, provides the rim that much more distance from the ground, thereby reducing smacking the rim.
a taller tire also gives more gear inch
48x11t with a 29x2.1 tire comes out to be around 127 gear inches
53x12t with a 700x23c tire comes out to be around 116 gear inches (road bike)

plus in the realm of MTB's, obviously they have a granny gear usually at 22t, and a rear cog of 32 or 34t
so thats a whole lot of super low gear

Though tubeless sounds interesting I don't think i will go that route for this tour... I recently accidentally bought on of those self sealing tubes, and it tore (during a ride), and I got this messy goop everywhere, all over the tire, my clothes, the rim, the floor.. if that is what it is like to run tubeless I think i will pass (me and messes seem to make themselves). I thought I rolled through some construction material till I realised why that particular tube was so expensive (duh).

I "really" want to get good at building my own wheels. After reading sheldon brown again I see I can substitute a bunch of tools for now... I mean if i screw up or feel I can;t do it I can always take it to the LBS. Out of curiosity how much does an LBS charge for building a wheel if you have you own parts?

Seems so much cheaper to build my own... can build a good set for under $100 depending on the spokes I pick.

Anyways after looking around I think I will go with something like deore hubs and these rims

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16522-260_WTB297-3-Parts-66-Rims/WTB-Dual-Duty-FR-29er-Rim.htm


Can't seem to find any good value rims with 36H

the tubeless experience is nothing like using a Slime tube, honestly.

but onto wheel building, its not that hard, you have to have a good tensiometer.
I use a DT

I'll invest in a tensionmeter and make my own truing stand/dishing setup. Tension meter seems like it would be handy anyway for my pre-built wheels.

Qkitty, if you're a light person and your goal is light weight wheels it seems to me there are lighter rims that would work than a 630g 28mm wide WTB rim. It's not clear whether you're carrying the fattest tires possible for dirt, whether you want the capability to ride on road tires 28-32mm wide or what the total load on the wheels will be.
If lowest cost is your goal and you're willing to build wheels I'd look at cheap machine made wheels where you're getting spokes,rims and hubs closer to manufacturers costs then loosen and retension the spokes to a good build. Buying up individual spokes, hubs and rims incurs more middle man costs. The only problem is that you can't get double butted spokes in cheap machine made wheels but I'm wondering if it really matters if you're a light person. In posts above someone mentioned you weighing 100lbs? If that's the case I bet you could find 32 spoke front wheels that would hold up fine. Also there's no reason to make a front wheel with the same weight rim as the rear given that rear wheels go out more often than front and your stated goal is light weight.

My $.02 is that if you're going for gonzo durability and you're 175lbs carrying 30lbs on the rear wheel through rough terrain the 630g WTB with 36 spokes is good for a rear wheel. If you're 100lbs and you're carrying 30lbs with road riding involving 32-35mm tires with 45mm for dirt I'd consider 22mm wide 32 spoke front wheel and 24mm wide 36spke rear with butted front/back all in the mid 500gram weight range.

the concern is:
tire width vs rim width
in that the tire bead needs to adequately interface with the rim.

for instance on a set of Mavic SpeedCity wheels, the rim is 19mm wide, I've used 23c up to 2.35"
http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/speedcity.995624.1.aspx
the tire recommendations are 19c to 32c

MAVIC C29ssMax (29er CrossMax), I think the internal rim width is also 19mm... I have a set of WTB ThickSlicks, that I'm about to try out. 700x25c I'm thinking that this skinny of a tire is pushing the limit. I have yet to actually try this. (not recommended)

the widest 29er rim on the market is the Salsa Gordo, which are 35mm wide... probably the skinniest 700c tire I'd try on something like that is 37c... I think that would be pushing the limit tho. You could probably use a set of Freedom Ryder (by WTB) touring tires in 38c
http://www.freedombicycle.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,24/category_id,9/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,58/

really its dependent on what rim you choose.

as you can tell, I really like WTB and MAVIC.

if you look at the MAVIC website: http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/xm-819-disc.323320.2.aspx
in the product description, under dimensions the recommended tire widths are listed.
typically 1.50 to 2.30"

32c = 1.25"
35c = 1.38"
38c = 1.5"
42c = 1.65"
47c = 1.8"
50c = 2.0"
53c = 2.1"

while I seriously advocate paying attention to the MFG recommendations
I also point out that you might be able to use those recommendations as guidelines
you have to make that judgement call, and I suppose that is the part where experience comes in.

Awesome post and really helpful. I didn't know 29'r widths weren't standard.

"The only problem is that you can't get double butted spokes in cheap machine made wheels but I'm wondering if it really matters if you're a light person"

Doesn't mater if you are a heavy person. I've always used straight gage, and have weighed up to 275 + load. Never a problem with spokes on properly built wheels. Some experts still prefer straight spokes for durability, though this appears to be an incorrect preference. But how bad can it be if people are doing it all the time.

A bigger problem with machine made wheels is if the parts aren't compatible. Some have claimed that machines require less well fitted spokes, or for that mater may simply use more price competitive components. This probably has more to do with the perception of straight spokes breaking than the use of butted vs straight spokes. Apparently machines can't handle butted spokes. So the difference may really be that butted = high dollar components and hand built, not the actual butted spokes themselves. So if you can get wheelsets at a decent price and hand finish them that can be a good approach so long as the components are all top end, and regardless of butted vs straight.

Overkill for wheels isn't a negative, it's depends entirely on the riders expectations of riding.

My "83 Stumpjumper back in the day came with massive Araya rims .... like 34mm wide or something. I never much thought about the weight, but they were/are super strong and durable. I never had to true them.

Can't seem to find any good value rims with 36H

Depending on the width of tire you want to use, either Sun CR-18 (22.5 mm) or Rhyno Lite (27.5 mm) may be a good value for you. Either is available in 36h. The Salsa Delgado is another 36h 22.5mm rim that might suit you.

You can build your own wheels and have them work just fine, even if you've never done it before. Be careful, take your time, and follow the suggestions given by such sources as Brandt or Sheldon. My suggestion would be to spring for the Park tension gauge (about $50). I built a number of wheels without one, but when I got one it made the process, in my opinion, easier and more "objective" and resulted in better wheels. I went back and checked some of the wheels I had built previously and, in my opinion, made them better by using the tension gauge. I'd also suggest a truing stand, though you can get by. Try to find a good used Park professional and if you decide that wheel building is not in your big scheme, you can likely sell it for close to what you paid.

When choosing rims be sure you can get factory tension info. Velocity has that info, I'm sure the rest do also, but I would want to have it in hand first. I have a park tensionmeter also. They work great, and are more useful than the stand if one has to have only one.

When choosing rims be sure you can get factory tension info. Velocity has that info, I'm sure the rest do also, but I would want to have it in hand first. I have a park tensionmeter also. They work great, and are more useful than the stand if one has to have only one.

I just looked at the Salsa site and couldn't easily find tension recommendations -- they might be there, I just couldn't find them. I haven't seen Sun recommendations either, but seem to recall that someone somewhere (big help, I know) contacted Sun about the CR-18 and the suggestions was 100 - 110 kgf. So, what I've been doing is building to a target of 110kgf. According to the Brandt book, the limiting factor is almost always rim strength and if you don't lose true when you over-tension when stress-relieving, you're not too tight for the rim. I'm not certain about this as I've seen true rims crack at the eyelets. Anyway, do you think that for any of the rims that might be considered 110 kgf might be too much or too little tension?

Des, I had to email velocity, in which case they got right back to me.

As you seem to know, the Brandt taco system :) is not appropriate to many modern rims where they are designed to have arch stength in the rim profile so that they will be heavy enough to work well with reduced spoke patterns. I used the taco system myself, but I don't know of an appropriate rim any more. When I moved to deeper rims, I also started trying to get specs, and I bought a tnsionmeter.

You can get advice direct from Brandt. He is very active online. However he has a lifetime supply of MA2 rims and I am not always sure he has our problems.

These are the numbers I got from Velocity:

We build the front wheel between 105 - 115 KGF, and the rear between 110
- 120 KGF.

That is without regard to number of spokes, hub size, rim size, use etc... Sounds like a fair range of tension, but on the Park gage it is one graduation on their scale!

But it would mater what the strength of the rim is. CM18 is not the best rim, but it is pretty good. Also. These rims deal with normal hand build condition which are proven to be vastly out of whack. Slavish amateurs, on the other hand, will measure every spoke, so our wheels should be much easier on the rims than wheels that are not so evenly built. Also, stress relieve until the cows come home, and seat the spoke heads until the milking is done...

Awesome post and really helpful. I didn't know 29'r widths weren't standard.

quite honestly, the 29er realm is still very dynamic and things are constantly changing

The whole 29er thing is just more marketing bologna to confuse people. . . . like all the computer mumbo jumbo terms they keep coming up with.

But they sound cool :rolleyes:

They're just 700c wheels that may or may not take disc brakes ! Gheeese....

A standard is no standard when they make it up as they go.

The whole 29er thing is just more marketing bologna to confuse people. . . . like all the computer mumbo jumbo terms they keep coming up with.

But they sound cool :rolleyes:

They're just 700c wheels that may or may not take disc brakes ! Gheeese....

A standard is no standard when they make it up as they go.

Well the width is different right? so the 29er rim can take wider tires? If it was just 700c I would take my road rims and put 2" tires on em, but that won't work with the bead and crap.

ftr, the only reason I am interested in 29 is the bike I am getting is a 29er.. I didnt buy the bike solely because it is a 29er.

Well the width is different right? so the 29er rim can take wider tires? If it was just 700c I would take my road rims and put 2" tires on em, but that won't work with the bead and crap.




Width is different ? ... not really. Many people put lager than 2" tires on road rims. Take the Velocity Synergy, many ride those 22.5mm rims with over 2" tires. Many run a 24.6mm Mavic A719 road rim on their 29'er. Many "29er" rims are narrower than the A719. A 700c rim is a 700c rim ,no matter how you label it. There is no standard in what width goes with what bike(or tires), some use ultra wide rims on a touring bike, some use a narrower Synergy on their 29'er. Whatever works.

Just because you're getting a 29er bike doesn't mean you need to buy a rim labeled as a "29er" rim. This is just marketing set to steer you into buying such a labeled rim. It all comes down to the maximum width any chosen rim can take. Some manufacturers have their recommendations for width, but these are often modest and contradictory at best. Some don't have recommendations.

I have Bontrager MA2 26" rims for mountain biking that are around 20 mm. They ran 2"+ tires on then. May not be the best choice, but it worked. No reason you can't run narrow rims on an MTB.

Just by the by. There is an interesting Bontrager audio where he goes after the 29er thing and discusses the whole easier rolling idea. Not sure where I heard it, but you internet wizards can probably find it. There is only one minimal condition where the 29er is better. If the 26 vs 29 wheels both go airborne or both roll up and down then it is a wash. If the 29 rolls over in a condition where the 26er went airborne, then it is an advantage, but does that happen often enough to justify the greater weight. Of course big wheels have a different feel, which explains the 69er hype.

I put 2.1" WTB Nano's on some 18mm Alex Rims. So far so good. Next wheel set will be disc-ready. :)

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