Bicycle Mechanics - Top speed 25mph/new chainrings?

Hi. I have a 2010 Windsor Fens which rides great, I average 11mph through hills, BUT I top out at 25 mph pedaling fast in top gear.
My bike specs:
Crankset: Shimano 105 5600 triple for 30 speed, 50/39/30T
Cassette: 2010 Shimano 105 HG5600 10 Speed Cassette 12-25T
Chain: 2010 Shimano CN5600 HG 10 Speed
59cm frame for 6'0" rider
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/fens_IX.htm
What do other people have as average and top speed? Is it conditioning, components, or both?
I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.
From what I read, the number of teeth in the chain ring is what will increase top speed? And that the crank arm length also, to a smaller extent?
Thanks.

With that gearing, I could hit 33mph easily.

Ok. I may have hit 27mph pedaling as fast as possible, but it would be more comfortable to sustain it at a lower cadence.

your definately not pedaling fast enough. get a cadence sensor and see just how fast your pedaling. you can also get a new casette with an 11 tooth top gear.

50/12 combo at 90rpm with 175mm cranks should produce 29.4 mph 50/11 combo at 90rpm will net you 32.1mph

wow a compact triple, I am sorry but thats the stupidest thing I've heard of, since compact doubles are supposed to replace triples anyway. Defered success gearing.

I would like to average over 30mph on flats...

So can you average over 400 watts?

Hi. I have a 2010 Windsor Fens which rides great, I average 11mph through hills, BUT I top out at 25 mph pedaling fast in top gear.
My bike specs:
50/39/30T
10 Speed Cassette 12-25T


What do other people have as average and top speed? Is it conditioning, components, or both?
I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.

Speed isn't about gearing, it's about power and the ability to sustain rpm in a given gear. If you can sustain 25mph riding solo in the flats you're already in an elite class of recreational cyclists. Being able to sustain 30mph for anything over a few minutes would be a serious achievement.

FYI, here's a link to a very informative site (http://www.analyticcycling.com/Topics.html) that helps analyze the effects of speed, cadence, power and gearing. It might give you some insights.

wow a compact triple, I am sorry but thats the stupidest thing I've heard of, since compact doubles are supposed to replace triples anyway. Defered success gearing.

What is so stupid about 50/39/30? have you run a gear chart on it? a 52 tooth gets you a whopping 1.3 extra mph at 90rpm in the 11tooth cog. it actually provides really nice spacing with minimal overlap of gears. not everyone is 150lbs

You should be cranking about 95-100 rpms. That means in 50/12 gets you about 32-33 mph. In other words, if you want go that fast, you need to pedal faster.

And there's nothing wrong with a "compact triple" unless you live someplace with a lot of hills and you wish to go down them at 45 mph. I have a 48t big ring, and don't use smaller than the 19t cog with it unless I'm going downhill or have a tailwind. I'm thinking of going back to my old setup - 46-36-26.

wow a compact triple, I am sorry but thats the stupidest thing I've heard of, since compact doubles are supposed to replace triples anyway. Defered success gearing.


That's not a compact triple. A compact has a 110 BCD and smaller rings and would be known as a touring crank. A "compact" double has 50/36, 50/34, or 48/34 rings, and there are other possible combinations.

I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.

If you could do that you would be ready for the serious pros.
If you want to go faster you need to turn the cranks at a higher rpm, like 90 to 105. A cadence meter would probably help.

That's not a compact triple. A compact has a 110 BCD and smaller rings and would be known as a touring crank. A "compact" double has 50/36, 50/34, or 48/34 rings, and there are other possible combinations.

well someone posted referencing the above mentioned 50/39/30 as a compact triple, i gathered he was saying the tooth combos were stupid which i disagree with

...I average 11mph through hills, BUT I top out at 25 mph pedaling fast in top gear. ...
I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.

I suspect he's doing 25 mph down hills.

well someone posted referencing the above mentioned 50/39/30 as a compact triple, i gathered he was saying the tooth combos were stupid which i disagree with

Sorry, I made a reference post error. Fixed now.

90 rpm with 700X23 tires and a 50X12 gearing gives you about 29.6 mph at 90 rpm. If you can do that for an hour then you can make a lot of money racing your bike.
The hour record is about 31mph on a velodrome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record

If you look at racing cyclists riding you will see that they pedal far higher rpm's than you would be doing at 25mph in a 50-12 gear (roughly 70 rpm). I have seen that people with heavier legs sometimes tend to spin slower, but sprint cyclists often have huge legs and still spin. I raced Cat3/4 in the 70's and never had over a 100 inch gear (52/14) yet one crit I raced in had a 29mph average. Most racers would consider "spinning out" to be well in excess of 120 rpm. It's not your gearing holding you back. A larger chainwheel (higher gear) increases your speed for a given rpm. It does not allow you to maintain that rpm.

Lastly, no matter what speed you go spinning is more efficient. When you pedal slower the hard, off-center pedaling tends to create wasteful flexing of the bike and pushes you off a straight line track. The more anaerobic muscle effort does not allow your circulation to supply your muscles fuel and carry away waste as well over an extended ride. The only time you would be pushing a higher gear at lower revs is out of the saddle accelerating or hill climbing.

In any case "It's the rider, not the bike," is as true now as it ever has been.As alluded to above the odds of you ever being able to "average over 30mph" are nil. One hour for a 25 mile time trial is considered very good time, even for an elite rider.

Unless they have uncommonly long or massive legs, I tend to doubt that anyone who can't do 90 rpm in top gear would get faster if they got a bigger gear, because the required force is just going to go up.

To put it simply, if you can't spin faster and keep it up, what makes you think you can push harder, and keep it up?

It would seem to be a lot easier to redline the existing cogset than to go faster with a 53 ring.

Just as a point of reference,
The fastest cycle time in Ironman Canada, 2009 was Brian Lavelle who completed 112 miles in 4 hours 45 minutes

Average speed: 23.5 miles per hour.

So, Roadrash911, Work on conditioning and technique with what you have got.
Keep a record of your rides and watch your results improve.
Set reasonable achievable goals for yourself, and to keep you humble, have some statistics from the pros.

Your gearing is fine... you need to work on your spin.

Your gearing is fine... you need to work on your spin.

You are only going to average 30mph if your last name is Merckx.

if no one answered the question which I do not think they did, if you cannot pedal a fast cadence which many people cannot it is a good idea to do some cadence work to help this but chainrings.... You can get a double crankset and not have to change your shifter depending on what type of shifters you have. You would want a 53/39 in this case and the 12/25 should still be sufficient for hill climbing. You could also swap out your cassette with an 11-25, 11-26 which would give you that 11 to pedal with the 50 ring. Not sure what crankset you have but chainrings are probably around same price if not close to a used crankset...

Hi. I have a 2010 Windsor Fens which rides great, I average 11mph through hills, BUT I top out at 25 mph pedaling fast in top gear.
My bike specs:
Crankset: Shimano 105 5600 triple for 30 speed, 50/39/30T
Cassette: 2010 Shimano 105 HG5600 10 Speed Cassette 12-25T
Chain: 2010 Shimano CN5600 HG 10 Speed
59cm frame for 6'0" rider
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/fens_IX.htm
What do other people have as average and top speed? Is it conditioning, components, or both?
I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.
From what I read, the number of teeth in the chain ring is what will increase top speed? And that the crank arm length also, to a smaller extent?
Thanks.

Yes, no

Can only be done by a few world class cyclists for more than a few minutes.

Cadence is a thing that will develop as you get better conditioning.

Remember that if you're working hard and you feel burn in your legs before you start running short of breath, you're probably in too high a gear (and vice versa). The burn means you're producing lactic acid from anaerobic fast twitch muscle fibers and there's not enough circulation to clear out the acid. A lower gear will let you press easier on the pedals, using the much more efficient, oxygen-burning, slow-twitch fibers, and the faster cadence increases circulation.

The world record for anyone riding a traditional upright bike for an hour, on a perfectly smooth closed track, is just under 31 miles. Up through the '80s almost every bike you'd see in a road race had a top gear of at best 53/13 (slightly lower than your 50/12).

The peleton in a pro race can cook at a pace above 30mph, because the people at the front are taking more of the wind resistance and shielding those behind them, and they trade off the front positions regularly.

On a long solo ride (60-80 miles) that's relatively flat I go 18-19 mph, average 15 if you include photo and pee breaks.

Ways to go faster on the flat: aerobars, tandems, recumbents, ride in a paceline, draft a bus.

Good grief OP. Pedal faster. My top gear is 50/14 and I top out at about 32mph (downhill) and I'm 62 years old. What's your excuse?
If you could average 30mph on the flat you'd be in this year's world championships.
Follow the advice in my sig..........................

Just as a point of reference,
The fastest cycle time in Ironman Canada, 2009 was Brian Lavelle who completed 112 miles in 4 hours 45 minutes
Average speed: 23.5 miles per hour.

A better point of reference - the best timetrialist in the UK - Michael Hutchinson, June 11th, - 100 miles, 3hours 23min 04sec. Best woman - Julia Shaw 3hr 45min 22sec (competition record).

http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/News/tabid/58/itemid/2046/Default.aspx

To answer your other questions:

"What do other people average and top speed?" All over the board, but when I raced I could do a 25 mile time trial in a bit over an hour, top speed in a sprint in a criterium was maybe 35+ mph. I don't do time trials any more but I can average close to 20mph for an hour solo (60 years old).

Ok, this gets a little silly sometimes. Ullrich, Santiago Botero, think those guys know a thing or two about bikes and speed? Yeah, Ullrich had an ave cadence around 70-75, Botero, 50-60. Is it for everyone, nope, just like spinning the pedals at 100 isn't for everyone. I can spin at 90-95, and sometimes do, but I can also spin at 70 and feel pretty good. I currently run a 53t big ring, and I don't think I'd ever need a larger gear.

Mashing is hard on the knees, so if you have any knee issues at all, or if you think you'll have knee issues, then indeed, a higher cadence is going to be best. It's the difference between muscle types that makes the type of bicyclist you are going to be, fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers, and the ratio of each you have. As a rule, if you build muscle fast, you have a good amount of slow twitch fibers, which is great for building muscle, not so great for super high cadence. If you don't build muscle fast, odds are you have a good amount of fast twitch, which means you'll be able to spin all day long at a nice high cadence.

Joe

Big Jan was more like 80 t0 90 rpm. Didn't pay much attention to Botero.

As a rule, if you build muscle fast, you have a good amount of slow twitch fibers, which is great for building muscle, not so great for super high cadence. If you don't build muscle fast, odds are you have a good amount of fast twitch, which means you'll be able to spin all day long at a nice high cadence.

OK except you have fast twitch and slow twitch backwards; it's the fast twitch fibers that 'bulk up.' Slow twitch fibers are more than fast enough to sustain a high cadence, that's not really the relevant difference, the difference is in being able to go at moderate force for long periods versus producing a lot of force but fatiguing quickly.

In a bird the fast twitch fibers make 'white meat' and slow twitch makes 'dark meat.' Chickens have white meat in the breast because they only fly in a short sprint; in birds that fly for distance you find dark meat in the breast.

Muscle fibers have a recruitment order; light movements use slow twitch fibers, and fast twitch fibers are held 'in reserve' until you need to make an explosive or very strong movement. So you can control which fibers you use by controlling how much force your muscles produce.

Anyone who can ride a bike race for a 150 mile stage is running mostly on slow twitch fibers. Someone like Ullrich if anything is gifted with even more slow twitch fibers, meaning he can produce more force without engaging fast twitch fibers. Someone who doesn't have as many slow twitch fibers, will have to learn to spin (i.e., pressing lightly, to avoid using rapidly fatiguing fast twitch muscle) for endurance. Fast twitch comes into play in cycling mainly in sprints.

May need a fat guy on a Moped right in front of you .. to motor pace you ,
Air resistance is 90+% 0f the work you are doing at 25 MPH.
then you might spin a 53-12..

May need a fat guy on a Moped right in front of you .. to motor pace you ,
Air resistance is 90+% 0f the work you are doing at 25 MPH.
then you might spin a 53-12..

This is 100% Correct as well, where can I find this fat guy on the moped? :) I'd like one to go please.

How long will the pile-on continue? Everyone here has made pretty much the same point to the original poster (OP), though in widely various wordings.

How long will the pile-on continue? Everyone here has made pretty much the same point to the original poster (OP), though in widely various wordings.

Good point, but it's too soon. The horse hasn't been officially pronounced dead yet.:deadhorse:

Ullrich had an ave cadence around 70-75, Botero, 50-60. Is it for everyone, nope, just like spinning the pedals at 100 isn't for everyone.The OP reported he "tops out" at 25mph/70 RPM. That's different from preferring a cadence of 50 or 75.

I simply guess it's easier to spin a bit faster than to push harder because all you need is the extra cardio capacity to do 26 vs 25 when you spin, whereas if you mash your way to 26mph you need both the cardio, because you're still doing more work per revolution, and more strength because a bigger ring means you have to push harder.

Ways to go faster on the flat: aerobars, tandems, recumbents, ride in a paceline, draft a bus.

I got motor paced by cement truck last week. That was cool.

Where to find them? , Job center, of course ... you hire one !
Listing to read: wanted Derny driver must have own Derny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derny

:beer:

I can spin up to 180 rpm i think I was going 30mph in 39-17. works great to reset legs after long miles, sometimes anyway, one time for sure, at the trek 100 at about mile 75 my legs were feeling cloudy and dismal and I randomly decided to **** out in low gear and like magic it was a new day.

wt**** it wont let me type ssppaazz?

I got motor paced by cement truck last week. That was cool.

How fast did you go?

I passed a Honda Spree yesterday and an eBike today! Both on downhills, though.

I would like to average over 30mph on flats, and be able to top out higher than that.


Without a tail wind that will take trading your conventional bicycle in for an enclosed recumbent human powered vehicle with lower frontal area and drag coefficients.

You'll go up to 80% faster on the same power.



From what I read, the number of teeth in the chain ring is what will increase top speed? And that the crank arm length also, to a smaller extent?
Thanks.The UCI hour record is only 30.88 miles an hour. You're not going to go that fast on flat ground regardless of what you do to gearing.

Who is the official dead thread declarer? Can we bring him/her in now?

:deadhorse2: RIP, lighter reading than what I came up with..

gear and "gain ratio" calculators:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
http://www.arachnoid.com/bike/
http://www.hostelshoppe.com/tech_gearcalc.php

general knowlege about (road bike) gears and gain ratios:
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/biking/bicycle4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_gearing
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

cadence info:
Average RPM
Recreational cyclists-60-80rpm
Racing cyclists-80-120rpm
Sprinters-170rpm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_%28cycling%29
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/gears.htm

forum posts about gearing:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=318839
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-122596.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-17897.html

gear chart:
http://home.i1.net/~dwolfe/gerz/howto1.html (http://home.i1.net/%7Edwolfe/gerz/howto1.html)
http://www.exo.net/~pauld/activities/bicycles/bicycle-gears.html (http://www.exo.net/%7Epauld/activities/bicycles/bicycle-gears.html)
http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_ratios