Bicycle Mechanics - Ultrega Shifters (Possibly need replacement?)
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08-09-10, 06:22 PM
I done gone ****ed up...and I need help.
I bought a tool kit and degreaser and stripped down by 2004 Giant OCR 1. I didn't want to mess with the headset or the bottom bracket since they were giving me no trouble. EVERYTHING else was taken apart. Unfortunately, I went one (literally one) screw too far on my rear Ultegra 6510 shifter. It was pretty confusing, but I got it back together and everything was working until I tried to recalibrate my rear derailleur. The shifter stopped working. At this point I know I'm bloody well screwed, but I hold my breath and start poking and prodding until the shifter explodes in my hands.
I know I can here all of you guys groaning (I'm buying Campy next time), but I have three questions:
1) Does ANYONE rebuild these? I've seen conflicting info online. There's one guy on Facebook who has decent reviews and supposedly does mail-away rebuilds. A rebuild is, theoretically, the cheapest way out of this situation.
2) If I'm out of luck, where can I get a Shimano-compatible rear shifter for a 9spd. The 6510 is only available used on eBay.
3) If I'm forced to blow several hundred bucks for being a fool, should I just get a new pair of shifters? Which ones? I'm already into this for more money that I ever imagined - I'm using a triple chainring up front and a 9spd cassette/freehub in the back. I don't want to replace these...
Thanks in advance
08-09-10, 06:32 PM
Any real shop can still get 9 speed brifters. The problem is the availability of getting the right only, which is what almost everyone wants. For example I could order a Tiagra set through a shop for about $450 MSRP. You can still get up to 'ultegra' quality level 9 speed STI.
If someone is capable of rebuilding STI's (they must have loads of broken STI's to scavenge parts off of) and is reliable. I'd like to hear it.
You are mistaken about the guy on facebook. He only does seven and eight speed stuff. No nine or ten speed stuff. No SORA stuff either (but yours obviously aren't SORA). At least, that was the last I heard. I tend to pick up any of the deals I see on 7 and 8 speed stuff because of this. I have RSX, RX100, older Shimano 105 (8 spd), and Shimano 600 STI (8 speed as well). His rebuild is a reasonable option for those units (they all work right now).
You can find new nine speed Tiagra brifters on the web at a somewhat reasonable price ($213 for the pair at Chain Reaction). You can also sometimes find 6510 brifters NEW on the web as well, chainreactioncycles.com. They are not cheap.
Chain Reaction often has really good prices on STI.
Tiagra is probably your best deal on nine speed for new units. I have picked up used nine speed Tiagra and nine speed Ultegra, but it is kind of a dicey move.
08-09-10, 06:47 PM
I tore down my own 6510 shifters and I created a guide (http://stiteardown.0sites.net/).
Maybe if you tell me what "They stopped working" means then I can give you a suggestion. Are they just sticky? Do you need to hold the large lever to make the small lever operate?
08-09-10, 07:01 PM
The short/black/detension lever clicked, and the long/silver/tension lever clicked, but the cable "carrier" did not move around the spindle. Essentially, the "clicks" didn't move the cable, which didn't move the rear derailleur arm. Then I had my "uh oh" moment and started tinkering the second time....
R brifter, Tiagra $103: http://aebike.com/product-list/shimano-b367/brake-shift-levers-drop-bar-right-tiagra-st-4500-t660-m9900-qc30/
Unless you are a gifted mechanist with a yen to delve, best just get a new one. IME R brifters fail for no good reason at
various times from 2000 miles on up to 12Kmi, my best ever longevity. Others claim lifespans into the 20k range, but
I suspect these are 2-3 SD out the bell curve. The one major problem with Shimano brifter repair is no spare parts available except from donor brifters, so even if you can master the art of reassembly, if something is broke, you can't fix it. The stratospheric rise in prices for later
era 9spds and current era 10spds is pure profit. Brifters in the 8-9spd era 10yrs ago were in
the $150-250 range (105->DA) and Tiagra are still in this range now, equivalent to at
least 105 level. 10spd brifters run $380 and up, mostly up, for a set.
08-10-10, 07:13 PM
That sounds more like one of the ratcheters moved too far and allowed the central spindle to slip past it's limit. That actually sounds like it could be fixed. I would offer to help you out and take a look at them but I am currently working on someone elses shifters right now and I want to finish those. If you are feeling adventurous try taking them apart and perform a reassembly. Otherwise If you can PM me if you want to try and work something out with fixing them.
08-10-10, 08:03 PM
You're pics look 90% like mine - the part all look and work roughly the same but I have a couple of extra tabs on the various washer. My black plastic definitely says 6510 but they might have different guts. Shimano doesn't show the internals on the exploded diagrams so they could changes things and no one would be any the wiser.
I got everything to fit together in the right order, but "central drive" won't position itself properly. And the "spring for downshift limit ratchet" on the gold spindle won't fit in the plastic housing groove. I assume this is the hard part that trips up everyone. Getting the long lever and name plate back, while irritating, is relatively easy if you have a "twisty tie" from a loaf of bread.
I'd like to get it fixed, if only to validate the hours I've sunk into this project. I think I should cut my losses, buy the Tiagra, and switch to Campy for all future builds. This is either planned obsolesce or poor design - lame lame lame.
08-10-10, 09:28 PM
Me again. Is there any difference between these Tiagra sets? The Shimano website doesn't differentiate between the various 45xx. I'm using a 3x9.
08-11-10, 05:09 AM
To clarify things some of those pictures I have on there are of a 6500 and a 6510 so I understand where there are differences no worries. The trick to repositioning the central drive is that you need to put the spring back into the central drive then put in central axel and rotate it clockwise until the small upfacing tab on the spring catches into the cutout on the central axel. Then you slide that onto the central keyway spindle. It will be rotated to far clockwise in this orientation to do anything but once you have it snug over the two-way ratcheting washer you need to turn it (against spring tension) counter clockwise until you can pop the downshift limit ratchet into the most counter-clockwise ratchet (The cable holder will also be at the top of the device at this point.) Now you will need to be careful because the central drive will want to pop out but if you push the downshift limit ratchet into the correct grove the central drive's tension will actually hold the downshift limit ratchet in place eventhough you don't have the spring in yet.
In any case if you decide to go with the Tiagras and you give up on those shifters tell me because I will be happy to buy them off you. Although honestly I wish you all the luck with re-assembly
Some time I am going to have to make a video of the re-assmebly to make it easier to explain.
08-11-10, 11:10 AM
@CB - I believe 4500 was the original in the 45xx series, and those shifters worked with a double or triple crankset/front derailleur. Too many left hand shifters were breaking when used with a double crank/derailleur and one position blocked off, so Shimano now makes a triple-specific version, 4503, which is the same as the 4500 model, and a double-specific version, 4501. I believe the right-hand shifter in all three models is identical.
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