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Well......Last week while riding down Southport Ave. in Chicago w/ a friend of mine we came up to a four way intersection and there was an older guy about to cross and my friend went by just as the guy started to cross,apparently startling the ped.I was about 15ft. behind and the ped started to cross again and I tried to go between him and the sidewalk....this moron moves over and purposely gets in my way and I whipped around him trying to advoid an accident...well,the ped takes a swing at me and clips me in the arm,so naturally I turn around , ride up behind him and smack him in the back of the head doing about 25mph nearly making him faceplant the concrete...
my question:If a ped gets physical with you,is it inappropriate to smack them?
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If it was an old guy obviously you should not hit him like that ahole. He was probably senile and it doesn't sound like he did much damage "clipping you in the arm." It's the law to yield to peds and just common decency to go around older adults.
Actually....if you are able to read english you would've seen the line about how I tried to move over but he jumped in front of me...also,he was in his fourties(maybe) and was completely aware of what he was doing.If someone nearly causes me to crash and then takes a swing at me,they should expect some sort of reaction...am I wrong?
Well......Last week while riding down Southport Ave. in Chicago w/ a friend of mine we came up to a four way intersection and there was an older guy about to cross and my friend went by just as the guy started to cross,apparently startling the ped.I was about 15ft. behind and the ped started to cross again and I tried to go between him and the sidewalk....this moron moves over and purposely gets in my way and I whipped around him trying to advoid an accident...well,the ped takes a swing at me and clips me in the arm,so naturally I turn around , ride up behind him and smack him in the back of the head doing about 25mph nearly making him faceplant the concrete...my question:If a ped gets physical with you,is it inappropriate to smack the **** out of them?
Interesting ethics question. First some facts was the guy in a crosswalk? If so what was the light/right-a-way? Who had the “go”. If he is jay walking then he is at fault.
If you’re clean and in the right of way and if the guy tries to take you out you need to defend yourself. But then it gets gray in my mind.
As right as you might have been to have the road, what is he going to do to the next biker going by? What if it is a kid or someone less skilled? Did you just set up the next biker for an attack by this guy?
Hindsight is great….what if you had stopped just past him and asked What was that for? It might be you scared the **** out of him and he thought you tried to hit him first.
Without talking to him you’ll never know.
I’m not taking the guys side but here is something that happened to me. A good friend called me a couple of years back and told me his wife had just called and told him that she had cancer. He asked me if I could drive him home. When we were walking to my car he was in a daze and he started to cross the street without looking and I grabbed him or he would have stepped in front of a car. It could have been a bike.
Do I have a point….well you never know what is going on in the other guys head or life.
If you had talked to the guy he might have just told you to F*** off. Then use the Cell to report an assault which is what it was if you were in the right.
Isn’t hindsight great!
Cheers
I'd be careful about the following:
1. Retaliation: It's a lot like hockey; never throw the second punch, since the first one might go unnoticed.
2. Headshots: You can do grave or serious injury to a person introducing a 25 mph trauma to the head, either a brain injury or spinal column injury. While you might say, "He did it first", he only hit you in the arm. You're going to look like a complete jerk if you were to end up on court on that one.
Slap him where it will sting. If you really want to insult him, slap his butt at 25mph. Not only will it sting like a whip, but his overactive machismo will be insulted. :-)
Actually....if you are able to read english you would've seen the line about how I tried to move over but he jumped in front of me...also,he was in his fourties(maybe) and was completely aware of what he was doing.If someone nearly causes me to crash and then takes a swing at me,they should expect some sort of reaction...am I wrong?
So fourties is "older"? You smacked a guy in his forties almost to the ground from a bicycle by smacking him on the back of the head?
Four way intersection...stop lights? Who had the light? Stop signs? Were you and your friend blowing through?
You do realize that, assuming he was at the corner and not crossing against the signal, that even stupid pedestrians have the right of way, right?
I'm from Chicago....lectures can be reduced to ***** slaps and still provide the same outcome.
It just really pissed me off because I was trying to avoid him....oh well.I'm sure he'll never try something like that again.
I'm from Chicago....lectures can be reduced to ***** slaps and still provide the same outcome.
It just really pissed me off because I was trying to avoid him....oh well.I'm sure he'll never try something like that again.
Either that or he'll crack the next guy's skull.
Close Call,
What you did was assault and battery and you should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. It was also extremly cowardly to hit him riding at 25mph running away from him. At least you should have confronted him like a man rather than a hit and run.
as far as I know the right of way was his.that's why I moved to the right...I could've gone by unnoticed but he lunged at me purposely...he actually had to turn around and take three steps to swing at me.
I almost went over my bars because of it....in Chicago when someone takes a swing at you,that person has just welcomed an ass whipping.I'm tired of trying to bike through Chicago peacefully....I've been lunged at,I've had cars purposely try to take me out.......if someone wants to throw punches at bikers,they shouldn't be suprised to see a 25mph punch coming there way.
extremely cowardly......more like extremely funny.let's not forget that i'm slightly more vulnerable on a bike and could've been in a much worse position had i lost control and smacked the curb.i consider what i did " instant karma".
If he had the right of way, you were wrong. Period. Swerving away from him does not constitute yielding the right of way. You and your friend violated his right of way. Between the two of you, you instigated a confrontation, then upped the ante to assault & battery. Congratulations.
I believe that in all states pedestrians have the right of way over bicycles and that bicycles must obey road laws - also in most states a cross walk is implied at all intersections, marked or not. This means you should fully stop (and your friend should have too) and waited for the pedestrian to cross to the midline of the road as soon as they had step out into street (just as if you were a car) before you started again - well actually you should have stopped anyway given the 4-way stop.
As I read you were totally in the wrong.
Al
i find it funny that everyone is saying assault and battery....if i'm not mistaken,he upped the ante by swinging at someone who was not in his way....also,he hit me unprovoked.i simply returned the favor.
If you had already convinced yourself that you were right and that it was funny to "ride up behind him and smack him in the back of the head doing about 25mph nearly making him faceplant the concrete", why did you ask the question "If a ped gets physical with you,is it inappropriate to smack the **** out of them?" You obviously didn't want to hear the answer, and you thought that other cyclists would hero worship you. You just made the guy a time bomb for other cyclists in Chicago.
if i'm not mistaken it kind of already seems he was a time bomb and i got a taste of it for no reason.
From his point of view (the valid point of view since you concede that he had the right of way) he was nearly run over by not one but two vehicles that failed to follow traffic law. You seem to be handily ingoring where this all started, so I'm not going to bother any more.
riding in va. and riding in downtown chicago requires two different types of bikers apparently.
i think you overlooked the part about how he turned around and walked towards me....
Right of way only gets you so much. You cannot step into a crosswalk suddenly, or reverse direction, and expect to have your right-of-way remain.
The guy took three steps back to hit close_call. Were that to happen to me, I'd have lifted a foot and used it like a lance to the belly. Bet he would have moved out of the way, rather than take a swing.
thank you^^^^
finally someone agrees.....
if he wasnt a threat to you then you were wrong to smack him down to the floor. You can kill people doing stuff like that. When the moment has passed and you are left with the reality that you have killed someone´s son, brother or father just for a moment of stupidity then I dont think that you would feel too good about the whole thing.
Right of way only gets you so much. You cannot step into a crosswalk suddenly, or reverse direction, and expect to have your right-of-way remain.
The guy took three steps back to hit close_call. Were that to happen to me, I'd have lifted a foot and used it like a lance to the belly. Bet he would have moved out of the way, rather than take a swing.
It is not clear from the descriptoin if this is a 4-way stop sign or a four way light. In any case, if the light was red or there was a stop sign the cyclist should have fully stopped and waited for the pedestrian to cross to the mid point of the road. If the cyclist had done this none of the following would have occured.
Al
he was a threat to me...he nearly made me crash into a curb..possibly causing physical harm to myself but more importantly severe damage to my bike.i'm not sure how some of you pansy's survive on two wheels. if someone hits you and for no good reason,you should return the favor....in Chicago anyway.
bikers are constantly ignored and harassed in my area and i'm only trying to protect myself.
four way stop sign intersection.......and i rolled up to the right side and in between him and the curb.he was halfway across the street when he turned around.
You protect yourself by following the law. You've conceded that he had the right of way. From that point on, anything you did except yielding the right of way was wrong.
And we're calling names now? I'm so glad to have you and Critical Mass looking out for the safety of cyclists. Your good work is surely not going unnoticed by the general public.
actually.....critical mass is doing wonderful work in the city of Chicago.if you look on the website and links you'd be aware that the city is doing great amounts of work to make Chicago the best metropolitan city for biking.how many bicycle commuter stations do you have in your city?how many miles of actual bike lanes do you have?do a little research before you question someone.
the reason the mayor has become so interested in biking is because of groups like the chicago bicycle federation and events that have been staged by groups like critical mass.the fact that you would question efforts made by fellow cyclists only proves you have no idea what is going on or why it is going on.
four way stop sign intersection.......and i rolled up to the right side and in between him and the curb.he was halfway across the street when he turned around.
The details are not comming across clearly. If you rode between him and the curb and he was half way across, there is no way he could have turned around and reached you in time to knock you. If you did fully stop as you should have, then he would have had time to turn around and hit you, but you would have been stationary waiting at the stop sign when he hit you.
In any case, if there is a pedestrian in the lanes of travel and you have a stop sign you need to stop fully and wait until the ped is out of all lanes of the direction you are traveling.
Al
A similar thing happened to me. I am curious what all you sticklers for appropriate conduct think of this:
I was biking late at night on an almost empty street. A group of three guys is walking down the sidewalk facing me. One of the three is looking at me funny, but I decide to ignore it. At the last second, he intentionally jumps out in front of me. At this instant, there was a moment where I could have swerved, and probably hit the pavement with my face. I opted to plow straight into him, at about 20mph, hoping he would break my fall. There was no question that he saw me and did this intentionally, but after we picked ourselves up, he started trying to blame me. Luckily I wasn't seriously hurt. I don't think he was either, but I don't think I would have felt sorry at all if he was, honestly.
I think it is behavior like this that sets cyclists on edge, and not take any s*t from people being antagonistic.
I was sent to the hospital by a pedesrian that punched me off my bike. The scar under my nose is permanent.
I think you should not have purposely hit him back. If he had been seriously injured, you might have found yourself in deep s***, not to mention what you did was no better than what he did to you.
A similar thing happened to me. I am curious what all you sticklers for appropriate conduct think of this:
I was biking late at night on an almost empty street. A group of three guys is walking down the sidewalk facing me. One of the three is looking at me funny, but I decide to ignore it. At the last second, he intentionally jumps out in front of me. At this instant, there was a moment where I could have swerved, and probably hit the pavement with my face. I opted to plow straight into him, at about 20mph, hoping he would break my fall. There was no question that he saw me and did this intentionally, but after we picked ourselves up, he started trying to blame me. Luckily I wasn't seriously hurt. I don't think he was either, but I don't think I would have felt sorry at all if he was, honestly.
I think it is behavior like this that sets cyclists on edge, and not take any s*t from people being antagonistic.
This is not at all a similar situation. You were assaulted by the person that jumped out in front of you where there was no x-walk or stop sign.
Al
If you can't see the difference between having a guy backed up by two of his buddies jumping off a side walk in front of you verses the situation of having first your friend blow thru a stop sign by an old guy trying to cross the road followed with you also blowing by him (so close that he could jump into your path) after he already started to cross the road, then you are no advocate for cycling or decent human behavior.
If you read thru my postings, both on this and other threads you will find I try to stick to facts, not rude and immature name calling as I don't see how this gets us anywhere.
Al
The North Side of Chicago is infected with many immature, self-centered bicycle riders many of whom grew-up in the burbs and ain't "real" city people.
Livin' in a big city means being cool and calm. I like to "stroll" on my bike, I'm in no hurry. I ride for exercise and relaxation. Walk slow, talk fast and drink lots of water.
If someone took a swing at me, I'd go down on purpose, fast and hard right on top of them and make sure I jam my elbow in their nuts as I go down so they don't run too quickly, then wrap my kryptonite around their neck and hold them there till authorities arrive.
I won't, however, swing back on purpose, cause then anything that happens to him is MY fault. If, OTOH he causes me to fall and I were so fall sideways towards his direction, well I can't really help that...
the fact that you would question efforts made by fellow cyclists only proves you have no idea what is going on or why it is going on.
Do these efforts include sucker punching a pedestrian after you have violated his right of way?
noisebeam...
you sound like a little *****.I GOT ASSAULTED AND I RESPONDED ACCORDINGLY!! GROW SOME BALLS!!
Grow up. If you were assualted you should have called the police. Frankly, you'll be lucky if this guy doesn't do just that. I know I would if I were in his position.
Grow up. If you were assualted you should have called the police. Frankly, you'll be lucky if this guy doesn't do just that. I know I would if I were in his position.
I commend you, Chris, for allowing free comment on this thread and adding your own.
And I agree. These forums are open, but promoting assault is not what we're about.
The guys age is irrelevant unless he's >70 or <16 - physical strength is not directly inversely proportional to age, but a function of many factors like occupation, sports, etc.
Could be argued that it was self-defense. I know that if I was in a situation where someone tried to hit me, and I avoided it, and could return the favour, I would think very strongly about doing so. I don't believe that this is about promoting assault.
he was a threat to me...he nearly made me crash into a curb..possibly causing physical harm to myself but more importantly severe damage to my bike.i'm not sure how some of you pansy's survive on two wheels. if someone hits you and for no good reason,you should return the favor....in Chicago anyway.
bikers are constantly ignored and harassed in my area and i'm only trying to protect myself.
At the time when you hit him, he was not a threat to you (you had already moved out of any danger). When you circled back around and hit him, what you did was assault and battery. That's the way of putting it in legal terms; in moral terms, you are an A--hole.
When you circled back around and hit him, what you did was assault and battery.
AKA "road rage", if you were driving a motorized vehicle. Oh, and you would also GO TO JAIL.
AKA "road rage", if you were driving a motorized vehicle. Oh, and you would also GO TO JAIL.
It's actually extremely rare that assault with a motorised vehicle ends up sending someone to prison. That's just a result of the pussified legal system we have. Having said that, about the only think keeping him out of trouble this time is that the guy apparently didn't call the cops.
It was the pedestrian's fault for taking a swing at the biker. It's one thing to be pissed about a biker buzzing you going through a stop sign and quite another to try to hit the next biker who comes by - who didn't even buzz you in the first place. Hitting him back was the right thing to do, he had it coming.
It was the pedestrian's fault for taking a swing at the biker. It's one thing to be pissed about a biker buzzing you going through a stop sign and quite another to try to hit the next biker who comes by - who didn't even buzz you in the first place. Hitting him back was the right thing to do, he had it coming.
Yeah. It's working great in Israel. :fight:
I haven't had any problems on my bike but I have while running. I was running outside city park to connect up to a main avenue. I make a left turn and head south. This old guy stops me and tells me I was running the wrong way. I have ran around this park both directions many times and I have never seen a sign that directed flow. So I tell the guy that I wasn't running laps around the park and that it was just apart of my course. Then I try to go around him and idiot bear hugs me. So I knee him in the gut and push him to the ground. Then I ran like hell so he couldn't catch me. When I got about 100 yards away I turned around and he was just getting up.
Mountie: "I do not approve of your methods."
Eliot Ness: "Yeah? Well, you're not from Chicago."
Dumb to hit the guy so hard, but I can see why you'd want to do it. I might have circled back and given him a good soaking with my water bottle, assuming I kept my cool enough to not hit back. :D
I can't believe the way some folks here are taking this personally. Tell the guy he was stupid if you think he was and move on!
I have been hit by a ped before. She was carrying a very large box which obstructed her vision. I wrecked and came to rest on a nicely rashed up shoulder. She dropped her box but was OK. If cyclists are to obey traffic laws, then peds should show cyclists the same respect they show to motor vehicles.
peds should show cyclists the same respect they show to motor vehicles.
HAHA will never happen :(
Mountie: "I do not approve of your methods."
Eliot Ness: "Yeah? Well, you're not from Chicago."
love it^^^^^
[...]
my question:If a ped gets physical with you,is it inappropriate to smack them?
No. Don't hit people. Especially don't hit people in the head.
Be glad to escape nasty situations, why prolong them? In fact, smacking an a-hole won't teach him anything. It may instead encourage him to take out his frustration at some other unwitting cyclist.
That said, I think a quick smack is warranted if you are being bike-jacked. Bike-jacking a popular summertime activity for youths in Baltimore and Washington. But if you can avoid physical contact altogether, you are better off.
Close_call, you were an idiot for three reasons:
1) It was unnecessary-you were out of danger.
2) It might have escalated against you. What if the pedestrian had a knife, gun or pepper spray? What if he jammed your spokes?
3) You never know what will happen when you hit someone in the head while riding at 25 mph. If you had hit him just right (wrong?), you could have killed him. If you had, it would have been murder or at least some form of manslaughter. Imagine what your life would be like right now if that had happened.
Recursive, your actions seem to be justified. A thug intentionally created a hazard for you, and you took what you reasonably thought was the least bad option to defend yourself. Unlike Close_call, you did not have the option to just ride away.
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