Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Where can I get these ?

Anyone know what they are called ? I want a pair for my bike. Anyone know where they can be found ?

165199

Not sure?

Might need more info.

Chain tugs.

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=188_192&products_id=2214&zenid=e68b92fbd18e92aa11fed825f404e749

Anyone know what they are called ? I want a pair for my bike. Anyone know where they can be found ?

165199

Looks like a Surly Tuggnut.
http://surlybikes.com/parts/tuggnut/
Look for a Surly dealer. I used to be one, but I ain't any more.

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=593

Hmmmm, nice but pricey. Thanks for the lead on them, I think I found something more in my budget on ebay. The one's on my bike now are those ultra cheap chain tensioners like these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-8-BMX-Chain-Tensioner-NEW-Silver-/290410128432?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories

That cheap pos steel bends and I think these are more of what I'm after:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-BIKE-SILVER-CHAIN-TENSIONER-ADJUSTERS-PAIR-NEW-/290457011625?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Origin-8-BMX-Bike-Chain-Tensioner-Black-Pair-/220647029344?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinz-Chain-tensioner-set-Black-BMX-3-8-pair-New-/250655094444?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories

They are for BMX axles, which is smaller in diameter than a track hub axle.

I don't think they will fit and they might ruin the threads of the axle if you force them on.

Pulled the trigger on these:

165220

Everytime I've tried to adjust the chain, when I tighten the side without the chain, the darn thing moves in so that there is more slack in the chain than I want and it's not supposed to do that. Not that it's too loose, but it bothers me that I can't have total control of what the chain tension ultimately winds up being. This oughta do the job better ?

those thingamabobs are called chain tensioners i believe

http://www.amazon.com/Redline-Alloy-Tensioners-Black-122197/dp/B0009R96X6

http://ecbacc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/pow_300.gif

They are for BMX axles, which is smaller in diameter than a track hub axle.

I don't think they will fit and they might ruin the threads of the axle if you force them on.

Duly noted, if it requires additional drilling to bore it out a little more to fit, I'll do whatever it takes.

Measured the axle bolt it's 3/8" and the description says it fits 3/8" axles. The nut is 15 mm. If it works out of the box fine, if not, there looks to be enough to drill out a little more. I'm always looking for an excuse to use my power tools.

This place is the best for a quick response for a solution !

damn fuji I was gonna offer to sell my surly tuggnut to you for cheaper than msrp. brand new.

Bro, you'll get Scrodded for that talk.

damn fuji I was gonna offer to sell my surly tuggnut to you for cheaper than msrp. brand new.

Do you have one or a pair ? I definitely wanted a pair to hold both sides in place. And actually the Origin 8's are subtle and understated, more functional rather than ornamental in comparison, which really is my preference. And it's an added bonus that they are 1/5 to 1/6 the cost of a pair of the Surly's. The less bike bling, the less likely for theft. Not wanting to insult anyone, but the Surly's are gaudy bike bling, while the Origin 8's are attractively functional, yet not pos cheap like the junk that came with the bike. The Surly, that would actually look nice on a lugged frame with chromed features. Maybe a pre-2011 Madison ? The Vilano I have is a blacked out theme, with silver aluminum where the brake pads interface. I guess it might work with it, because the rear gears are chrome silver, but who knows how big they are and how far they would protrude off the back end of the bike ? That was also a concern, didn't want it to be too big and add weight. I posted the pic because I couldn't find anything of an eyebolt that would work over at Home Depot and figured this is what I'd wind up having to settle for, either that or the cheap pos replacements like what came with the bike ? What came with the bike as a replacement and the effort to hunt those down really wasn't an option.

Too easy, they are indicated as shipped already with a USPS tracking number. NV to Miami, FL.

A tugnut is only required on the pulling (right) side, and is pretty useless on the left.

A tugnut is only required on the pulling (right) side, and is pretty useless on the left.

One side effects the other. I don't doubt one can get away with using it just on the chain (right) side, even not using them at all, but my bike has a problem where when I tighten the nut on non-chain (left) side it moves and loses the desired chain tension no matter how much I hold it in place, so I know I need it on the non-chain (left) side at least. And if it goes on that side, might as well use one on the chain (right) side to ensure both sides are adjusted and aligned to then tighten the nuts securely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMM0bB3f2I&p=7098860D73955BB2

The video indicates 1/4" to 1/2" of chain slack, the chain tensioner(s) I purchased will ensure I get this where it needs to be the first time, every time (both wheel alignment & proper chain tension).

I manage to get away with just using one on the drive side, and it works just dandy. Many others get by with just one tensioner. HTFU.

Also, with regard to any chain slippage, the chain tensioners will help keep the axle in place when you tighten it, really it's the nuts that keep the thing in place. get good track nuts, make sure the dropouts are de-gunked and non-greasy, crank down good and hard with a proper wrench, and wheel slippage will be a thing of the past.

however, good on not getting the surly tuggnut!! I can't stress it enough. It looks pretty dope, but by having it's working parts all exposed like that isn't good for business. Only having the little thumbscrew isn't a little lame for good leverage/fine tuning, and one ill-placed bump against something, and the bolt could bend, and render the whole thing useless. happened to me. I got an mks one, and haven't looked back.

however, good on not getting the surly tuggnut!! I can't stress it enough. It looks pretty dope, but by having it's working parts all exposed like that isn't good for business. Only having the little thumbscrew isn't a little lame for good leverage/fine tuning, and one ill-placed bump against something, and the bolt could bend, and render the whole thing useless. happened to me. I got an mks one, and haven't looked back.

But dude, it has a bottle opener.

One side effects the other. I don't doubt one can get away with using it just on the chain (right) side, even not using them at all, but my bike has a problem where when I tighten the nut on non-chain (left) side it moves and loses the desired chain tension no matter how much I hold it in place, so I know I need it on the non-chain (left) side at least. And if it goes on that side, might as well use one on the chain (right) side to ensure both sides are adjusted and aligned to then tighten the nuts securely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMM0bB3f2I&p=7098860D73955BB2

The video indicates 1/4" to 1/2" of chain slack, the chain tensioner(s) I purchased will ensure I get this where it needs to be the first time, every time (both wheel alignment & proper chain tension).

Both you and the video makes all of this way too complicated and confusing.

half of an inch is not much.

I agree, using one can get the job done. But these are sold as pairs, so why not use both of them ? The 2nd one is paid for and coming in the mail in the same package, so really it's not an inconvenience either way, using one or both. The wheel has to come off to put even just one of them on. So HTFU is un-necessary. You guys would have to be here to appreciate why I'm getting these things in the first place. The track ends are degreased and so on. When I properly tighten the nut down on the non-chain side, it moves and I've made several attempts and the same slippage occurs, over and over again. The chain has a noticeable sag in it.

The cheap chain tensioners that were with the bike as OEM, there are a few problems with them. First the threaded portion doesn't go to the base of the washer that fits on the axle bolt. This creates an issue where the axle adjusts too close to the ends of the track ends. I run out of threaded bolt when the other piece flexes & bends out of shape (it's not rigid enough to do the job). I would consider solving that by taking a link out of the chain, but as it is, the rear tire clears the seat tube by the thin width of my pointer finger, and I certainly don't have much room to really take out there. Second, the cheap chain tensioners were bent from day 1, the threaded bolt portions were not identical lengths and angle away from the centerline of the bike and ultimately the cheap piece of steel that actually presses against the track ends after a few tries at tightening it up, after those attempts, the threads at the base of the chain tension are now stripped too, so I wind up using a 2nd nut on it and at a certain point the first nut becomes spacer too. I can make the crap I have work, but it doesn't work very well. And another thing, when I tighten the nut, the chain tensioners rotate with the tightening process, so now that's not aligned properly.

Advantages of the new parts. Stronger materials, they are straight, they have no stripped threads, they have a track end alignment on the washer. The new parts are going to be a joy to use, a smartly engineered part designed to do the job right, the first time, every time. I may even be able to have that sense that the bike will stay together and I can actually ride the bike instead of tightening and loosening a couple of nuts that are never going to adjust properly using the old hardware.

You know what "eff" it, I'll post pics so you can see what I'm dealing with here.

I think your just going to have to get a whole new frame

http://allcitycycles.com/bikes/big_block_frameset/

Heres one with them already built in

Pics:

165453165454165455165456

As you can see, the threaded bolts of the cheap chain tensioner(s) are well beyond the track ends of the frame leaving unthreaded area. The non-chain side is not the same length (which doesn't bother me that much if the rest of the hardware functioned as intended). The little metal retainers are easily bent and these aren't solid, they are a hollowed square u-shape, because they are cheap steel. That's another thing, the edge of those retainers also can work their way underneath the axle nuts and that causes even more slippage when tightening the axle nuts. And the gap between the seat tube and the rear tire is pretty tight as it is, so taking a link of chain out is going to put that tire right next to the seat tube and I don't want the tire to rub or even be mm's away from the seat tube. Trust me, I've spent enough time looking at this from all angles and the way I'm proceeding is my best shot at success to get it the way I can live with it and be satisfied.

Pics:

165453165454165455165456

As you can see, the threaded bolts of the cheap chain tensioner(s) are well beyond the track ends of the frame leaving unthreaded area. The non-chain side is not the same length (which doesn't bother me that much if the rest of the hardware functioned as intended). The little metal retainers are easily bent and these aren't solid, they are a hollowed square u-shape, because they are cheap steel. That's another thing, the edge of those retainers also can work their way underneath the axle nuts and that causes even more slippage when tightening the axle nuts. And the gap between the seat tube and the rear tire is pretty tight as it is, so taking a link of chain out is going to put that tire right next to the seat tube and I don't want the tire to rub or even be mm's away from the seat tube. Trust me, I've spent enough time looking at this from all angles and the way I'm proceeding is my best shot at success to get it the way I can live with it and be satisfied.

You've installed the chain adjusters incorrectly. They should be on the outside of the dropouts. The hub should bear directly against the dropout. The axle nut on the outside should bear on the adjuster. I agree that the stock ones are crap, but they should work. First adjust the right side and tighten down. If the chain is too tight, loosen the right nut and turn the adjuster a quarter turn out and repeat. The wheel should straighten out and be centered in the frame. If it doesn't, it's because you have a crappy frame / wheel, and you'll need to compensate by forcing the left side forward or backwards to get it centered.

I think your just going to have to get a whole new frame

http://allcitycycles.com/bikes/big_block_frameset/

Heres one with them already built in

Yes, I've seen that frame. The other thread about the frame, that was one of the features that impressed me about that particular frame. But a majority of frames don't have that elegant feature built in. And I'm sure over the lifetime of the frame, it could have an issue down the road that requires more of a design like this one to replace it ? I see a few design flaws there. One, it looks easy to get at on a bare frame, but working over the chain stays it's not as accessible as from the open and rear of the track ends. Another, it uses hex heads, so can those be stripped out, even the screw or however way that threaded frame end is designed. Nothing's perfect, so for $ 8.95 delivered what I'm getting will do just fine for the lifespan of a Vilano. Roadworthy, inexpensive transportation is the goal here, This bike is perfect in that it flies in under the radar. Plenty of other and more expensive bikes to be stolen before it.

Let's not get carried away here with this talk of replacing perfectly good frames. Let's not throw the baby out after giving it a bath just because the bath water is dirty.

You've installed the chain adjusters incorrectly. They should be on the outside of the dropouts. The hub should bear directly against the dropout. The axle nut on the outside should bear on the adjuster. I agree that the stock ones are crap, but they should work. First adjust the right side and tighten down. If the chain is too tight, loosen the right nut and turn the adjuster a quarter turn out and repeat. The wheel should straighten out and be centered in the frame. If it doesn't, it's because you have a crappy frame / wheel, and you'll need to compensate by forcing the left side forward or backwards to get it centered.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but the bike came assembled that way, that is chain tensioners on the inside and used as a shim/spacer to compensate for chain line and wheel centering. The axle nuts are the type that have the rough mating surface to the frame so it shouldn't move. And I did try to put them on the outside and the fact that the threaded portion extended well beyond the track ends and whatever bend in them caused even more issues. It appears inside is where it functions better.

As you feel the chain tensioner is better served on the outside, do you think the new parts should be oriented in that manner, because the way it's been going together and coming apart, inside still looks like a better fit. When I get the parts, I figure I'll try them either way and see which functions better, but I think I still need the shim/spacer function with this. I agree the frame isn't a Pake or better, it's a hi ten Vilano, I knew that going into the purchase, so it is what it is in that regard. I think that with a higher quality chain tensioner and design this will resolve the issue and perform quite well for the useful life of this bike. I have a feeling after this fix, I will have a bike that will last several years without issue under normal operation and routine care and maintenance. For an upgrade that cost $ 8.95 delivered I can't expect any higher level of satisfaction for this particular under $ 300 bike ? Just me, but I think the BD bikes would be better served to have these included ? But that's my opinion, others may not hold that.

All, I do appreciate all the assistance and concern that has been expressed, when it's done, I'll post pics and you guys can determine if something like this will work better for your bike(s) ? I just wanted to get it put together so that when I do ride it, the potential for a failure down the road/on the road doesn't leave me stranded somewhere.

just learn how to properly tension your chain and you will never need mechanical assistance.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but the bike came assembled that way, that is chain tensioners on the inside and used as a shim/spacer to compensate for chain line and wheel centering. The axle nuts are the type that have the rough mating surface to the frame so it shouldn't move. And I did try to put them on the outside and the fact that the threaded portion extended well beyond the track ends and whatever bend in them caused even more issues. It appears inside is where it functions better.

First, just because the bike came assembled that way from the factory, doesn't mean they did it right. You might as well have gotten it assembled from Wallymart.

Second, part of your problem is those cheap axle nuts that lack built in floating washers. Its basically impossible to tighten those nuts w/o affecting the axle position and chain adjustment. So, get yourself a decent pair of rear axle nuts.

Third, you don't really need axle adjusters / tug nuts. They're just a convenience. I manage just fine to repeatedly adjust the chain on my track racing bikes without any such devices. I did get a Surly tugnut for one of my steel road FG bikes (Kilo WT), but more to just dress it up and cover up all the gouges in the dropout paint from changing the axle position. The main purpose of a tugnut is to "tug" to prevent accidental axle slippage under load, and they are totally unnecessary if the axle nut on the pulling side is sufficiently tight.

just learn how to properly tension your chain and you will never need mechanical assistance.

The only mechanical assistance I've required on the bike is a lateral and radial wheel truing. With these new parts I will be perfectly able to adjust and align the chain and it's tension. I don't have a wheel truing device and I didn't want to fabricate my own. Both wheels trued up were $ 12, even the bike tech/mechanic could not tension the chain properly with the chain tensioner(s) provided with this bike in the condition they were in. I don't feel as though I'm any less of a mechanic for failing with that inferior grade hardware. Adjusting the chain tension is hardly the most complex mechanical repair I've ever done. I've rebuilt 4, 6 & 8 cylinder auto engines, not to mention rebuilt 12A rotary engines that power Mazda RX7's.

First, just because the bike came assembled that way from the factory, doesn't mean they did it right. You might as well have gotten it assembled from Wallymart.

Second, part of your problem is those cheap axle nuts that lack built in floating washers. Its basically impossible to tighten those nuts w/o affecting the axle position and chain adjustment. So, get yourself a decent pair of rear axle nuts.

Third, you don't really need axle adjusters / tug nuts. They're just a convenience. I manage just fine to repeatedly adjust the chain on my track racing bikes without any such devices. I did get a Surly tugnut for one of my steel road FG bikes (Kilo WT), but more to just dress it up and cover up all the gouges in the dropout paint from changing the axle position. The main purpose of a tugnut is to "tug" to prevent accidental axle slippage under load, and they are totally unnecessary if the axle nut on the pulling side is sufficiently tight.

I think that I will continue to pursue this as appropriate. I've had the rear wheel off several times for one reason or another and the chain tensioners simply weren't designed to do it that many times, the new ones seem like a longer term solution. But your purchase of a Surly tug nut was based upon this premise ? A purchase of an item that easily costs 2X what I paid for these for the sole purpose of covering up or touching up cosmetic damages that would've been more appropriately repainted on a steel frame ? Hmmmm, any surface rust underneath that tug nut ?

I agree, maybe new nuts and lock washers might be a better alternative to the axle nuts ? Then again, I'll deal with that sometime down the road if it presents an issue at that time ?

I agree, maybe new nuts and lock washers might be a better alternative to the axle nuts ?

Not nuts and separate lock washers, but nuts with built in floating washers that permit you to tighten the nut without grinding it against the dropout. From Harris Cyclery:

Nuts


Track Nuts $3.95/each


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/tracknuts.400-121.gif Track Nuts Standard
Serrated Flange Nuts Proper track nuts have integral washers. They permit easier adjustment of chain tension, and hold the wheel in place better.

don't get the purpose of these. thought the drivetrain was supposed to have a good amount of slack anyways (enough tension to make sure the chain doesn't come off)

its all about dialing it in. having no slack is an issue, but going from no slack to too much slack is very easy, and its really easy to overshoot the goal in either direction, if not for practicality, then certainly for personal preferences. having proper nuts, and/or a tensioner help to attain a very nice chain tension every time

hey I was too lazy to read all the previous posts but fuji I only have one, which is all you need

Let's not get carried away here with this talk of replacing perfectly good frames. Let's not throw the baby out after giving it a bath just because the bath water is dirty.

Sorry you didn't catch the sarcasm fuji, I was only joking

i've never found chain tension to be a precise art. is the chain loose enough to fall off? then does it have less than 1/2" of play at any part of the crank rotation?

if it's anywhere between these two then it's fine atmo

Not nuts and separate lock washers, but nuts with built in floating washers that permit you to tighten the nut without grinding it against the dropout. From Harris Cyclery:

Nuts


Track Nuts $3.95/each


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/tracknuts.400-121.gif Track Nuts Standard
Serrated Flange Nuts Proper track nuts have integral washers. They permit easier adjustment of chain tension, and hold the wheel in place better.



Those are what are on there now. the 3rd one to the left.

well, build up them skills, son. alternate tightening/loosening left and right nuts, and get things to where you like em. then crank down.

to get good tension, all you need is tracknuts, a good 15mm wrench, and your own two hands.

to get excellent tension, maybe throw in a chain tensioner or two.

if either of these scenarios is not the case, you need to practice more, double check that all the surfaces are clean, and make sure to REALLY crank down on the nuts.

edit: oh, and just makin sure - although they look like the 3rd one from the left, are you sure they are, ie, that they have the built in floating washer?

I received them in the mail today. I like them, put them on (kept them on the inside instead of the outside as they replaced the spacers that were already there. Adjusted them and tightened down the axle nuts. Chain tension right at 1/2" slack and it lines up where it should.

http://www.origin-8.com/product_detail.php?short_code=Chain+Tension+Adjuster&cl1=CHAINS

The one's I bought were the same one's only black. Black versions have the Origin 8 logo on them. They also fit the axles perfectly and slid into the track ends snugly. I recommend the product for track frames that don't have the hex screw chain tensioners designed into the track ends as part of the frame. 5 stars for quality and value.

That's odd...

BMX axles are 3/8", which is roughly around 9.5mm...and most flip flop hubs are 10mm.

Then again, there are exceptions. :D Good job, fuji.

The 3/8" axle is .375 mm. 10 mm is .3937 inches. I think these would've been very close with a slightly larger axle, but would've still gone on. The wheelset is the 30 mm Tec 9's:

http://www.tec9components.com/?p=44

They were $ 8.95 delivered off ebay.

I manage to get away with just using one on the drive side, and it works just dandy. Many others get by with just one tensioner. HTFU.
Many others get by with none at all.

Save your money.

Many others get by with none at all.

Save your money.

John makes a very good point, you can save your money too. To summarize the thread in a single post, I was replacing cheaper chain tensioners, so I wanted them on the bike. And the situation I had with an inexpensive Vilano hi-ten frame was that no matter how hard and often I tried, the non-chain side would always slide back just enough to lose the desired chain tension when I cranked down and tightened that particular axle nut. I did it over and over until I was so frustrated with the whole process, that I realized that I'd have to get lucky to get it close to where I wanted it tensioned and aligned. I started this thread to find a solution. The Surly Tug Nut is the first thing I found on-line, it's an expensive item as others guided me to where they could be bought and even on ebay they are easily double what the Origin 8's cost at the time I pursued these. The Origin 8's are a little more affordable and to replace the cheap ones with like hardware, that was going to run me just a couple dollars less, so I splurged, figuring better quality was about what S&H would run on the crappier ones delivered. These particular items are functional, they line everything up and tension the chain without having to pull back on the wheel with your hand & fingers. And as a pair, everything is adjusted right the first time and makes the job easier. They are pretty attractive too. But I'll be honest about it, if the one's I had functioned properly, or had I been able to get by with one of them functioning properly, even had gotten by without even using them, I wouldn't have even bothered with starting the thread, much more buying them. Being as attractive and functional as they are, they provide a feature that some higher end track frames already have designed & built into the track ends. In that regard if you'd like that for your frame, while enhancing the appearance of the track ends, then go for it. Everyone has to assess for themselves what they want.

you should have tried new nuts.

you should have tried new nuts. Considering the nuts pictured from others were $ 3.95 each, that's $ 8 & change. I paid $ 8.95 for the new chain tensionser(s) and considering the pics I posted in # 24 of this thread of the cheap chain tensioner(s) that were scrap metal that were bent, this was not an issue of bad axle nuts. Those tighten down just fine.

Are you a robot?

Are you a robot? Go Phillies & Eagles !

wait I want this fuji86 dude to teach more people about bikes.