Commuting - to avoid hijacking the BD thread

So I'm down to the wire on buying my new bike (saved and now its time to enjoy the profit of riding)

It's down to two bikes

Surly LHT (My dream bike. Something I've done a lot of research, talked to a lot of folks and really just am impressed with this bike all around. I have a Karate Monkey and couldn't be happier with it)

2010 Motobecane Fantom Cross Outlaw. I know it seems odd, but this bike looks REALLY sharp and offers the disc brake setup I wanted on a road bike. The only problem I have with this bike is I hate (HATE) the fork. I'm not a fan of carbon fiber. At a wet/dry weight of between 185/225 lbs. depending on the time of the year, and what I'm doing, I don't want a fork that is going to break down on me.

Here's the catch. I use my bike for everything. I ride to work, school, grocery store. I'm looking into a trailer and my wife has even agreed NOT to utilize her mini-van anymore than we absolutely need to. So what that means is that the bike has to either hold up to a load on a rear rack, or be stable enough to hold me+my backpack with anywhere from 15-45 lbs. of junk/books/food at any given time.

So my question - which would you jump on? There is a $200ish dollar difference. I figure I might put my money where my mouth is and be able to give a valid report on the strengths of the BD.com bike under commuter/lifestyle use.

The Motobecane has a double chain ring.

Does the SLHT have a triple?

My input is go for your dream bike...... the $ difference will be made up rapidly with your stated usage.

Why over think?

You are happy with the karate monkey, and have done alot of research into a LHT.
Why not get the trucker? I don't know how much time you spend riding in the rain,so I can't tell if you need discs or not.
But if I were you ,I would go the LHT route. It does everything you want it to, has a proven track record, and some resale value.
The moto I am not so sure on.
In the long run, it will be the comfort, load hauling, and reliability of the bike that will give you the good feeling.
Not the pretty looks.

It's JMO;

BTW; I have a cross check and wish I would have bought the trucker.

Here's the catch. I use my bike for everything. I ride to work, school, grocery store. I'm looking into a trailer and my wife has even agreed NOT to utilize her mini-van anymore than we absolutely need to. So what that means is that the bike has to either hold up to a load on a rear rack, or be stable enough to hold me+my backpack with anywhere from 15-45 lbs. of junk/books/food at any given time.
Sounds like you may want to consider an Xtracycle. --> http://www.xtracycle.com/

My input is go for your dream bike...... the $ difference will be made up rapidly with your stated usage.

+1...once you're spending that kind of money, is the dollar difference really significant? If you get the other you'll be thinking "damn, I wish I had an LHT" whenever you see one.

From experience...I wish damn, I wish I had splurged on some Campy whenever I ride my Koga Miyata.

It's a substantial investment either way. $200 is nothing to sneeze at but it's not so significant that I'd let it decide for you which bike to get.

So, let's say the bikes cost exactly the same. Which one would you get?

Honestly, the Surly. I just can't get over that fork. Ugh.

The Motobecane has a double chain ring.

Does the SLHT have a triple?

solution: buy the frame... build it yourself to your very exacting specifications and have a wicked awesome bike.

say it: wicked....awesome.

WICKED AWESOME /beefcake, Beefcake...BEEEEFFCAAAAKKKEEE

As a fellow former Clyde who has gone from 240 to 180, the carbon forks I have used (from a Winwood Dusty to the one on my Fuji Cross Comp to a no-name fork), I have never had trouble and love the way it takes the buzz out of the road. I was concerned about the stopping power of my V-brake setup with Kool Stop salmons and discs on the one bike, but the guys over in Mechanics assured me that I would go over the bars at this weight before a fork ever snapped on me.

Just to quell your concerns about the stability of CF on a fork. The Outlaw looks like a rad bike.

LHT is more of an all around bike I would say. Get it.

I too was facing the same decision earlier in the year- LHT of Synapse in my case; I went with the LHT for the simple fact that you can do anything on that bike. I have never even come close to regretting it. Love the bike, and have no lingering fear about sudden catastrophic failure of my fork.

If I hadn't lucked into my Koga-Miyata frame, I'd have gone the LHT route.

I'm pretty happy with my LHT. It was well worth the price.

10 Wheels, Yes it has a triple chain ring.

But I don't know anything about the Motobecane. It might be just fine for you.

Buy the LHT - you yourself describe it as a "dream bike."

But don't overthink carbon forks - I weigh in at 240 or so, and was riding with 30 lbs. of panniers as well when I bent the frame on my Jamis Aurora around the carbon fork. Trashed frame, no visible damage to the fork (and no, I don't plan to reuse it without getting an expert to inspect it - but I anticipate that it will get a clean bill of health if I do that).

FWIW, though, I replaced the bent bike with a LHT, and couldn't be happier.

Buck the trend to name brand love and get the Motobecane.

I vote the LHT unless you really think you need the disc brakes. Rim brakes are cheaper and easier to maintain. Modern rim brakes on aluminum rims are totally usuable when wet. It's not like the steel rim plus crappy center pull brakes of the 70's anymore.

Sure, after years the rims might get damaged from road grime but that's just a good excuse to upgrade. $200 more is worth it for something you describe as your dream bike.

My "crappy" Weinmann 990 center pulls with kool stops work nearly as well as any of my double pivot side pulls, as well as single pivot and better than the older center pivot side pulls...granted they're a bit trickier to adjust. This is assuming a decent aluminum rim.

...And just whats wrong with hijacking a BD thread??

...And just whats wrong with hijacking a BD thread??

That thread got me thinking about it, but its not fair to take something that I'm thinking about and chase a rabbit in the same thread.

My problem with the BD bike is the fork is not designed to hold a rack, or weight. My fear isn't that it's not able to handle my body weight, but rather - I don't think the fork is designed to handle loaded weight.


Where is the 'savings' associated with the bike. There is absolutely zero way that BD is able to sell a bike at less than 50% of his competitors without some part of the bike being below the standard of the rest. Is it in the rims? The hubs? The frame? The fork? Obviously the components are not the weak link. My true question is what really is?

If you're going to attach anything but a fender to the Cross bike, then the other option is your answer.

That thread got me thinking about it, but its not fair to take something that I'm thinking about and chase a rabbit in the same thread.

My problem with the BD bike is the fork is not designed to hold a rack, or weight. My fear isn't that it's not able to handle my body weight, but rather - I don't think the fork is designed to handle loaded weight.


Where is the 'savings' associated with the bike. There is absolutely zero way that BD is able to sell a bike at less than 50% of his competitors without some part of the bike being below the standard of the rest. Is it in the rims? The hubs? The frame? The fork? Obviously the components are not the weak link. My true question is what really is?
With the name brand, shop sold bikes, it's things like transport, distribution, reputation, retail markups, wages and shop overheads, wages and manufacturers overheads, some small attention to detail, esoteric name "value," territorial protection, price fixing, etc.

All these add to the cost, without affecting the product itself.

That thread got me thinking about it, but its not fair to take something that I'm thinking about and chase a rabbit in the same thread.

My problem with the BD bike is the fork is not designed to hold a rack, or weight. My fear isn't that it's not able to handle my body weight, but rather - I don't think the fork is designed to handle loaded weight.


Where is the 'savings' associated with the bike. There is absolutely zero way that BD is able to sell a bike at less than 50% of his competitors without some part of the bike being below the standard of the rest. Is it in the rims? The hubs? The frame? The fork? Obviously the components are not the weak link. My true question is what really is?

My Tourist came with crummy tires and brake pads the pedals sucked (too narrow) and the saddle wasn't very good. I changed the saddle to a Brooks B-17 from another bike I sold. The rims were not true and the preload on the front hub and the bottom bracket bearings was too tight. The fork stem is an old fashion style threaded 1" where the upper echelon models of touring bikes are normally 1 1/4" threadless I think thats the size anyway. The rims are plain jane but so far very serviceable. I changed out the crummy cheapo stuff for more quality items. With the changes I made I'm still way under what I would have paid for a LHT which is what I wanted but the budget wasn't going to bear it this year. So, yeah there are trade offs but what I have is a so far very reliable and extremely comfortable bike. As posted above the overhead of a storefront and employees and shipping costs are going to add up fast on a bike purchased from a LBS.

That thread got me thinking about it, but its not fair to take something that I'm thinking about and chase a rabbit in the same thread.

My problem with the BD bike is the fork is not designed to hold a rack, or weight. My fear isn't that it's not able to handle my body weight, but rather - I don't think the fork is designed to handle loaded weight.


Where is the 'savings' associated with the bike. There is absolutely zero way that BD is able to sell a bike at less than 50% of his competitors without some part of the bike being below the standard of the rest. Is it in the rims? The hubs? The frame? The fork? Obviously the components are not the weak link. My true question is what really is?

This is a great question...

I suspect that they are selling and buying at such volume that they're able to make a few dollars less and also get favorable pricing on components. I've also noticed that a lot of them do frequently go off brand for some things...like cheaper hubs, or no name stem. I think they're also often using no name frame materials which probably save some dollars. By selling strictly on line they don't have the costs associated with a bricks and mortar store.

My "crappy" Weinmann 990 center pulls with kool stops work nearly as well as any of my double pivot side pulls, as well as single pivot and better than the older center pivot side pulls...granted they're a bit trickier to adjust. This is assuming a decent aluminum rim.
+1

And then I went for a ride and found a vintage 90s Bianchi Volpe with mint condition xce components for $165. I got pictures I'll post in a bit. Needless to say, I'm going to end up buying nothing at this point until I get a chance to check this over and see what it needs.

So now I have a 90s Bianchi Volpe and a Araya (both 27s without a cassette option, unfortunately); but I think I can get a lot more 'umph' for my money with this little pawnshop diamond.

And then I went for a ride and found a vintage 90s Bianchi Volpe with mint condition xce components for $165. I got pictures I'll post in a bit. Needless to say, I'm going to end up buying nothing at this point until I get a chance to check this over and see what it needs.

So now I have a 90s Bianchi Volpe and a Araya (both 27s without a cassette option, unfortunately); but I think I can get a lot more 'umph' for my money with this little pawnshop diamond.

Smart move! In my experiences you can get a lot more bang for the buck if you're willing to troll CL for the right deal and do a little work on it. We're not racing...I just don't see a need for latest greatest. With all due respect to the LHT, I'd rather have a classic, lugged 80s-90s vintage frame made in the US or Japan as opposed to Taiwan. I think what Surly does is great...and I LOVE that they make a practical steel tourer...but for those willing to invest the time, an older Miyata 1000 is a better deal.

Something i would consider...ehem am considering actually, fits right into this. I am also debating touring bike versus cross, though not that particular set of them. Think about the times when you are not using it for hauling, assuming you don't already have a dedicated racing bike, obviously a cross bike would be tons more fun to ride unloaded, as i hear the LHT is somewhat sluggish in this use... I am still stuck in this debate personally, the utility and loaded ability of a tourer, versus the speed and light weight of a cross.... Will it be used most often as a hauler, or a rider? Perhaps something to consider for your decision.

Something i would consider...ehem am considering actually, fits right into this. I am also debating touring bike versus cross, though not that particular set of them. Think about the times when you are not using it for hauling, assuming you don't already have a dedicated racing bike, obviously a cross bike would be tons more fun to ride unloaded, as i hear the LHT is somewhat sluggish in this use... I am still stuck in this debate personally, the utility and loaded ability of a tourer, versus the speed and light weight of a cross.... Will it be used most often as a hauler, or a rider? Perhaps something to consider for your decision.

Exactly. I own a LHT, and its a great bike, but I hate hate hate riding that thing unloaded. Its sluggish and heavy compared to my road bikes and singlespeeds. Either bike will function for your needs, but the LHT is going to be the better hauler, while the Moto will be a sleeker faster more fun bike to ride. I wouldn't be concerned about the fork. I rode carbon forks when I was well over 200lbs with no problem. A carbon fork wouldn't concern me any more than a steel fork. The Moto also appears to be a somewhat better bike for the money. Surly's are a bit overpriced IMO. BUt if you can afford either, I wouldn't factor cost into your decision. Just decide what your priorities are and base your decision on that. If I could only have one bike and did both recreational riding and commuting/utilitarian riding, I'd choose the Motobecane.

Adg...you also might want to consider an 80s styled sports tourer. Gunnar makes one that I think is awesome...Rivendell has one...VO has one...Salsa has one. Or, if you don't mind trolling craigslist/ebay, you could find an older one. Heck, the Cross-Check and Volpe are pretty much Sports Tourers from what I've seen.

Another option is to replace the front fork on the LHT with a disc-brake compatible one like this example: http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=FK2401. Since the front brake handles most of the stopping duties (in my experience anyway, YMMV) discs up front and rim brakes in the rear will work just fine. Of course that would mean a new hub, caliper, and rotor if you were considering purchase of the complete LHT. Also, you would also lose some of the bike's inherent good looks by switching out the fork. Alternatively you could switch the Outlaw's carbon fork for the aforementioned cromo one without losing any of its aesthetic appeal (IMHO) and you could sell the OE fork for a profit!

I like the Surley stuff but the LHT and Cross Check need disc brakes. Now that the UCI has legalised disc brakes for cyclocross I expect many bikes will have disc in the next few years. I have rim brake bikes, drum brake bikes and disc brake bikes, the disc brakes are much better under all conditions.