Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Clicks in my crankset/bottom bracket

I have previously posted about this issue before... but this time things are different

I have consulted sheldon brown's page here on creaks/clicks/clunks
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/creaks.html

It is a noise (about 1-3 quick clicks) that happens every crank revolution.. when i pedal really hard, it clicks more (3 clicks)... when i pedal slowly, it clicks 1-2 times... when i dont exert force and just let it coast downhill, sometimes it'll click once, sometimes not at all.

I have eliminated the possibility of it being wheel related because it definitely happens once per crank revolution...

Pedals are tight, greased, not loose at all.
The crank bolts are definitely properly tightened into the bottom bracket spindle.
chainring bolts are on tight and good...
bottom bracket cups are definitely tightened as they should be (pretty much how everyone recommended that I installed them, drive side tightened to about 25 foot pounds, non drive side just tightened in as far as you can with your hands, maybe an extra few twists... I even went as far as to replace my bottom bracket.. no improvement in the noise...
I doubt there are problems with all my pedals, I've dried some different pedals and the noise persists.
I don't think it's a saddle problem... I took off the seatpost and saddle and rode and the noise is still there. I don't think it's a handlebar problem either... I put 0 pressure on the handlebars (ride with no hands) and the noise still persists. I can feel a slight vibration in my crankset when it clicks, so I'm pretty sure it's coming from there.
I'm sure it's not something dumb like my shoelaces or something either... wear laceless shoes and still the same thing as well...

Now I'm thinking... is something wrong with my crank arms/chainring???

Thanks BF

It could be a dirty chain, clean it and lube it to see if does anything.

Have a shop tighten your bottom bracket, ride, and come back here to tell me I was right.

If I've done all that my solution is to take it all apart, clean, regrease and put it all back on. If that doesn't work take it to a shop and see what they say.

I tighten my drive side (right) cup to at least 40 ft-lbs and the non-drive (left) side to at least 30 ft-lbs. What torque did you use on your crank arm bolts? I use 400 in-lbs (33.3 ft-lbs). What brand / model of crank do you have? Is your frame steel or aluminum. Finally, is your chain too tight?

@Vixtor my chain is definitely clean and nicely lubed.

@WoundedKnee I will try that tomorrow probably.. hopefully you are right man :)

@CharneK already been done... gonna go bring it to a shop I guess..

@TejanoTrackie I have just tried tightening it that tight to no avail... my drive side cup screws in all the way really easily... there are no more threads for me to even tighten it any further... non drive side to around 30 pounds... keep clicking crank arm bolts are 30 ft pounds... fsa vero crankset... reynolds steel frame... my chain is not too tight from my understanding, there is a good amount of slack (not too much) in my chain

I have just tried tightening it that tight to no avail... my drive side cup screws in all the way really easily... there are no more threads for me to even tighten it any further...

What kind of BB do you have? Doesn't the right cup have a flange that presses against the frame when you screw it in such that you can get a very high torque? It sounds like you may have some play between the cup threads and frame BB shell threads. This could lead to creaking and clicking.

It could be a dirty chain, clean it and lube it to see if does anything. Maybe check the chain alignment and tension too. Reading what you've done so far with no success, maybe you need a sealed bearing system replacement this time ?

BTW, my Vilano had a similar problem, I kept on turning it over and readjusting the BB. Each time it screwed in a smidgeon more until I got it to a certain depth and now it doesn't make noises anymore. The lock ring on that I used a pretty good weighted hammer and screw driver to tighten that down too, just in case it was loosening up on me.

I had the same problem. My bottom bracket was installed improperly, so its at an angle. I had to get a new one, and lo and behold, the clicks went away. also, i tightened my cranks again

What kind of BB do you have? Doesn't the right cup have a flange that presses against the frame when you screw it in such that you can get a very high torque? It sounds like you may have some play between the cup threads and frame BB shell threads. This could lead to creaking and clicking.

it's a tange sealed bearing internal bottom bracket.. 68x103mm... yeah theres the flange but I don't know how to get it to tighten any more... I've tried as hard as i could to get as much torque/leverage as I could but still nothing

it's a tange sealed bearing internal bottom bracket.. 68x103mm... yeah theres the flange but I don't know how to get it to tighten any more... I've tried as hard as i could to get as much torque/leverage as I could but still nothing

I think there's a communication gap here. Are you using a torque wrench? Is the torque wrench a click type and is it clicking at the preset torque? Or, are you saying the cup won't screw all the way in no matter how hard you try to tighten it?

Got a cell phone camera, take pics and post them ?

it's too dark for me to take any good pics but I'll try to show you what I'm talking about tomorrow TT. thanks for the suggestion fuji86. Yeah I'm using a torque wrench... but the thing is the cup wont screw in anymore... it's already all the way in..

The cup I assume is the one on the non-chain side ? The chain side should be all the way in. I think you have this model ?

http://thebikesmiths.com/j/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Tange_Square_Tap_4ae21506cb8f7.jpg

and would have a metal rather than plastic cup ?

yes, it is a metal cup...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7232/55548160.png
That is the part I'm talking about... that ridge on the chain side doesnt fit inside the bottom bracket shell so the bottom bracket just wont go any further than going all the way on that.....
the non chain side is fine and torqued correctly

That part of the cup isn't supposed to go inside, it's supposed to fit flush with the frame bottom bracket shell and torqued tightly to whatever the spec is. The side that's supposed to be adjustable is the non chain side. How far does that protrude or does it torque to be flush with the frame bottom bracket shell ?

i had this problem once. try taking off your pedals, cranks and bottom bracket all off.

wipe clean and make sure your threads in your bottom bracket chamber is all good

then reinstall everything

i did this and the clicks went away. i think the problem w/ mine had to do w/ the bottom bracket and the crank arms.

good luck

i had this problem once. try taking off your pedals, cranks and bottom bracket all off.

wipe clean and make sure your threads in your bottom bracket chamber is all good

then reinstall everything

i did this and the clicks went away. i think the problem w/ mine had to do w/ the bottom bracket and the crank arms.

good luck

did that first... didn't work.. everything is fine down there..
it's flush with the frame's bottom bracket shell, no protrusion at all... can't make it any tighter than it is

Hmm...
I noticed you said it also happen when you coast down hill...so I assume you are on the freewheel side?

It just could be a crappy freewheel if you are on the freewheel side.

Really startin to sound like a problem for a seasoned mechanic to figure out

Hmm...
I noticed you said it also happen when you coast down hill...so I assume you are on the freewheel side?

It just could be a crappy freewheel if you are on the freewheel side.

That makes sense too. If JDM could also take pics of the chain, normal orientation & pulled on @ the bottom & center, between the rear cog and crank gear so we can see the chain tension that might help in a diagnosis here ?

JDM, What brand or model freewheel is it ? Also just out of curiousity here, what brand bike and model ?

It might not be a freewheel...I just remember that he was looking for a track cog and lockring for his SST AL.

It could be the chain was too tight at one spot and it clicks, so many possibilities.

by coasting I just meant like rolling down the hill without using any force on the pedals... letting my legs go with the cranks.. it is a fixed cog... sorry for the confusion there... good memory vixtor!
and this is a windsor the hour from bikesdirect...

but the thing is the clicking is timed to the rotation of the cranks, not timed to the rotation of the chain.. could it still be the chain?

I'm thinking it may be better for me to take it to the LBS, but me being the stubborn dude I am.. I want to fix this myself.. guess I have to take defeat this time

What I meant is the chainring is slightly warped and it affects how tight the chain is everytime it passes the warped spot.

You could try loosening the chain tension slightly to help with the tight spot.

And not being the original bottom bracket (?), is the chain line slightly off line and it's not meshing properly, just enough to be noisy or clunky after a brief break in period of riding ?

Edit: Well release some pressure off the chain at the point where you know the noise is being made and the pedal position.

Another thought, do both pedals spin relatively free ? I had to replace one that felt like it was binding as it rotated thru it's orbit. What a pos that was. Combinations of cheap parts with problems.

the problem persists with both the original bottom bracket and the new tange bottom bracket.. they are the same size and have the same spacers.. the chain line is pretty much straight on both

I don't exactly understand where or how exactly I should take pressure off the chain though.. could you please elaborate? Should I just loosen up the chain in general?

The pedals are spinning fine as well... nothings wrong with them to my knowledge..

Edit: Well release some pressure off the chain at the point where you know the noise is being made and the pedal position.
Try that first.

If all things fail, wait for members to wake up to give your more informations and if that doesn't work...LBS.

I tried taking some pressure off the chain, didn't work...

The shocker:
2 of my LBS were stumped... Long story short we went through everything on their checklist and everything checked out okay. Properly installed, chainline straight, etc. etc. but as soon as we get back on the bike... the clicking persists. One store even went out of their way to replace everything with pretty much brand spanking new parts tested to be working... nope... they then checked for clicking from the saddle/seatpost and the handlebars/stem area... but we pinned down the noise to the drivetrain area... They sent me out of the store telling me something could be up with my frame.

What about the square taper interface on the crank being worn? It could cause minor movement between the crank arm and BB, and that would make a noise with each rotation(at 1-2 oclock most likely) and with harder pedaling it would make more noise.

What about the square taper interface on the crank being worn? It could cause minor movement between the crank arm and BB, and that would make a noise with each rotation(at 1-2 oclock most likely) and with harder pedaling it would make more noise.


One store even went out of their way to replace everything with pretty much brand spanking new parts tested to be working... nope... they then checked for clicking from the saddle/seatpost and the handlebars/stem area... but we pinned down the noise to the drivetrain area... They sent me out of the store telling me something could be up with my frame.

everything in the drivetrain was switched out for pretty much new parts and there is still some kind of clicking..

I think someone planted a bomb in your seat tube. :innocent:

Is there any way this could have happened to the frame as a result of hard wear and tear? I mean this bike has been thrown around and rode almost everyday since at least 2007

Is it a feint clicking (something you can live with), as opposed to a clunk ?

It's a pretty faint clicking... but it's been getting worse and worse lately... louder and clicks more often, it's not a clunk or anything yet though.

Well, here is a list of remedies that I found on line that might work. I realized the SST AL is a Dawes Aluminum frame and I have no experience with them. Aluminum and Carbon frames are something I'm on record for saying I want little to do with, even though they are the pricier bike frames. Anyway:

http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/keepitquiet.html

Some think I'm OCD for what I do, this guy oils his spokes and rims to quiet clicking sounds ? But perhaps his clicking was similar to what you're experiencing currently ? I wonder if I can be this guy's OCD apprentice ?

Sorry my mistake, he has a Windsor Hour.

Yeah the bike that I'm talking about is the windsor hour...
i've actually eliminated most of those issues... im sure if the wheels had problems they would have clicked on my other bike as well... but nope.
I almost eliminated all of those issues except for the water bottle mount clicking... which I doubt would be the issue because the clicking is definitely coming from the drivetrain.. but I'll try it out anyway

It's a pretty faint clicking... but it's been getting worse and worse lately... louder and clicks more often, it's not a clunk or anything yet though.

Given that it's had a lot of "hard use" over many years, the problem is now just starting and is getting progressively worse, it is possible that the frame has developed a crack in a weld that is hard to see and only becomes visible under load. I'd closely inspect all the welds in the BB area and also look inside the BB to see if anything is visible.

Is there any way this could have happened to the frame as a result of hard wear and tear? I mean this bike has been thrown around and rode almost everyday since at least 2007

Could be something with the frame just being worn out too ? Years of stress, expansion and contraction might have taken it's toll ?

If they replaced everything in the drivetrain, I can't see how it's anything other than the frame.

If you've been riding it daily for 3 years you've gotten your $200 worth. Might be time to move on. Maybe something steel.

If they replaced everything in the drivetrain, I can't see how it's anything other than the frame.

If you've been riding it daily for 3 years you've gotten your $200 worth. Might be time to move on. Maybe something steel.

It IS steel. Originally the OP said it was Reynolds but then said it was a Windsor Hour, which is plain unbranded CroMo, but actually the same material. The main difference is that the weld quality on the BD Chinese made CroMo frames is very poor, whereas it is pretty good on the Taiwanese made Reynolds 520 Kilo frames. So I could see where the welds on a cheap frame like the Windsor Hour might have an initial weld defect that could eventually develop into a crack.

Kinda like a car that has problems, without having it physically to live with and experience the specific bike and problem it's beyond me. If it's a crack in a tube or weld, that's a matter of putting the frame back to where the tubes are aligned as was designed and putting a bead/weld at that point which has the stress fracture.

Yeah... Thanks for all the help guys... Guess it's time to move on from the Windsor Hour....
(b> new frame)