Wow. That bikebiz.co.uk article seems to spin it like we're overreacting. Like, "duh, we've known about this since 92, and you're point is?"

What jerks.

lucky i dont use u-locks ;)

Anyone tried one of those Masterlok handcuff ones? Im not sure if its a circular-key design, but they would look sweet hanging out the back left pocket.

No they didn't purposely produce a poor product design but they purposely did nothing to fix this major defect once they knew about it! I consider the latter equally as bad.
I consider it the same thing. If you are in the business of producing locks, find out that your locks can be opened with a pen and you knowingly continue to produce your locks - then you are purposefully producing an inferiour product. They might not have purposefully designed it that way 15 years ago, but once the security compromise is found, it should be logical that you would redesign the lock to defeat the compromise. To do anything else is irresponsible.

I wont be buying anything else from them... who knows what their new lock will be able to be opened with? Even if THEY know, it's obvious they wont be doing anything to fix it.

Vincent

I just got the words out here from the biggest BBS in Japan. The 2ch that is.
The damn lock is popular in Japan among the people who used to think who know the difference...

the only thing wrong with your logic is that...the do not duplicate...that is a complete crop of bs...I have several keys that are do not duplicate and...well anyplace will easily duplicate them with a simple explination...but sure the whole thing about knwoing sice 1992 screams lawsuit!!!especially since they are a corparation based in ****ing bermuda!!!

I could see that, but you certainly have to have a special key machine to replicate it, and not every locksmith has it. The Mul-T-Lock is unique and had it's own machine cutter. Then there were two Mul-T-Lock machine cutters, and I know they had to specify which machine they used (first guy's cutting was a tiny bit off, so they had to recut). I had to call around to quite a few stores before I found a shop that dealt with Mul-T-Lock. Maybe it's because only the highest quality locksmiths with good reputations are allowed to carry the Mul-T-Lock.

Koffee

What's humorous about all this is that with all this exposure now EVERYONE is going to know how to pick them.


:rolleyes:

With my housemate's Kryptonite lock, I was able to stick a bic pen right in and twist, but my own Kryptonite lock from 1998 key number NBA 5XXX (not sure of brand because use has worn off letters, but it has special narrow long shackle, costs about $45) has a wider diameter than the bic pen/new Kryptonite - and this is also true with 3 generic $10 ulocks that I have. I would have to search out a wider pen. Can anyone earlier who was talking about opening a lock with NBA key describe what they did?

Earlier, people were talking about stretching out the bottom of their pen barrel, but I applied a lot of force and twisted clockwise etc and it did expand to fit around the wider cylinder, but I still couldn't get anything to move.

I think it's great that some LBSes are offering free exchanges. I would like to see more LBSes offer it and let all of them deal with Kryptonite on being reimbursed. It would certainly be easier than every one of us contacting Kryptonite.

bicycle habitat here in nyc is offering several trade-in deals. i guess they bought a bunch of American padlocks and are offering them for $10 or something when you trade in your lock. they have some similar deal going for ulocks.

anyway, anyone check out the ny times and daily news today?

wonder who that good lookin' guy is? ;)

wonder who that good lookin' guy is? ;)

hey, congrats. you are almost a minor celeberty now.

thanks man, i cut the pen down, really hammered it in there and was able to turn it back to neutral.

On a related note, I bought the OnGuard mini before i got my kyptolok, the reason i got the onguard was because i read that mini locks were better than larger ones and because i couldnt afford the krypto mini.

Well, i returned the onguard to REI after owning it for about 3 months because the locking mech was to unpredictable. There were days when i couldnt get the key out, or i couldnt turn the tumblers to even lock it at times. It wasnt a cylinder lock, and it was probably tough because i couldnt even get it to unlock and i HAD the key.

other options must exist

jeremyb

I'm unimpressed with the Bike Habitat deals - before I make a trade-in that leaves me out of pocket ANY additional money, I'm going to give Krypto a chance to make this right with a FREE upgrade / trade-in program. Also, FYI, those American Lock padlocks go for $20 at my local hardware store; either Bike Habitat bought theirs retail and is trying to recoup costs and a slim profit, or they're doing quite well indeed on them if they bought wholesale, since they've got them at $25. They're good guys and a decent shop, but they're by no means offering a great deal in this case.

thanks man, i cut the pen down, really hammered it in there and was able to turn it back to neutral.

jeremyb

No prob - I had the same thing happen to me. I'll be using mine until I can afford a new lock, but my bike won't be out of my sight while it's locked up. Inside at the apartment, inside at work, anything else in plain view. Not that locking it up is any better than not locking it up, but there might be people who haven't heard of this...

If I see some kid heading for my bike with a bic... It aint gonna be pretty.

Well, i returned the onguard to REI after owning it for about 3 months because the locking mech was to unpredictable. There were days when i couldnt get the key out, or i couldnt turn the tumblers to even lock it at times. It wasnt a cylinder lock, and it was probably tough because i couldnt even get it to unlock and i HAD the key.

Was this the Brute or the Ultimate? And how long ago was this? Anyone else had problems with onguard? I think a lot of people are going to be looking at them for a replacement mini-U lock.

tim

The Onguard lock will let you turn the key - though NOT unlock the lock - while the key is only partially inserted - so you need to be careful to fully insert the key. Perhaps that's the root of the problem reported above?

With my housemate's Kryptonite lock, I was able to stick a bic pen right in and twist, but my own Kryptonite lock from 1998 key number NBA 5XXX (not sure of brand because use has worn off letters, but it has special narrow long shackle, costs about $45) has a wider diameter than the bic pen/new Kryptonite - and this is also true with 3 generic $10 ulocks that I have. I would have to search out a wider pen. Can anyone earlier who was talking about opening a lock with NBA key describe what they did?

Earlier, people were talking about stretching out the bottom of their pen barrel, but I applied a lot of force and twisted clockwise etc and it did expand to fit around the wider cylinder, but I still couldn't get anything to move.


both of my locks, purchased this year, are NBA 5XXX. The vulnerable one was NBA50xx, and the one I couldnt open was NBA51xx. I don't think the series matters as much as the pin heights thogh. I noticed the 51XX had a slightly higher high postion and a far lower low position on the key...in fact the low was so low you could barely see it. That could have made it incredibly hard to pick since one tumbler was very well at teh division line to begin with, and the other had to be pressed completely down.

I have two NBA keyed Kryptonite locks. I'm trading them in at Citybikes tomorrow for an On Guard or Kryptonite or whatever they have. But for the record, one of the pin/springs on one of the Krypts (an evo disc) is virtually flush with the mechanism, and I can't get at it with a pen. It could probably be done, but it wouldn't be easy or quick. Not that I'm prepared to trust my high zoot bike with it...Ditto with another lock that needed a thicker pen. The question is how much patience does the average BIC'ER have.

here's an article from Wired:

http://wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,64987,00.html

looks like they didn't read your suggestion, Joe - there is a link directly to this thread.

Mike,
Can you videotape evidence to support your claim and send me a QuickTime version?
I wonder what Kensington has to say about this...
Kevin

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004
>From: Michael Porter <mdporter@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: MAJOR SECURITY GLITCH FOUND IN POPULAR U-LOCKS
>In a related lockpicking security alert, most of the modern Kensington laptop locks that are cylinder based can be picked in about 10 seconds with the tube of a Papermate Flexgrip pen. These types of locks can also be picked with straws or the cardboard from a roll of toilet paper.

Oh crap. Hehee. I read this last night. Turned around and showed my roomie the movies that were posted on the first page. A guy in our hall WON a Raleigh M40 at a club Tuesday night. We grabbed a BIC pen (total cost $.00 - it was a freebie), and went outside to the bike racks. Turns out he uses a beefy Master Lock with a special chain. This guy across the hall came out, and is like, what's up. We told him. He offered his lock for use to try it on (he was a die-hard ULock fan after his bike got stolen with a chain lock last year). He has a DiamondBack Coil, with a Kryptonite "Krypto-Lock". We disassembled the pen (10sec), fit the barrel into the lock (5sec), twisted it around for a while, everybody else there was starting to laugh at me, saying it wouldn't work, then CLANK the U part fell to the ground (25sec). Everyone's jaw DROPPED.

The problem is.... this was just a test, now the guy's lock is ******! The inner part that the barrel of the key (or pen) goes around, is turned 90 degrees, so the little tab doesn't line up, you can't fit the key in..... His lock was stuck unlocked, then we got the U part to go in and lock. Now its stuck locked. We agreed its only right to buy him a new one. Went to the bike store. They wouldn't SELL us a ulock. They said they are pulling them out of their store. We bought him a cable lock...

Well, I went to the Security Shop near Clark and Wellington in Chicago, near where I work, and got one of their "Multi-Locks" with an extra key ($73). Before that, however, I had to get a NY Chain from...Kryptonite! I had gone to Home Depot and found the available chains to be very unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, I had to shell out 50 bucks for a NY chain (which you can apparently wear around your waist; they're heavy but manageable).

The Performance Bike shop on Diversey refused to sell one of the NY Chains--they've taken all of them off the shelves, with the crappy locks, and are returning them to Kryptonite en massse.

Thankfully, the Johnny Sprocketts shop on Wellington and Broadway did sell me the chain without the lock for $50 instead of $90. I hated to give Krypto any more money, but I needed to get the best chain I could find, and the NY Chain is apparently still that.

I would not encourage anyone to get the 3/8" steel chains from hardware stores; they can be snapped more easily than the NY Chain.

In the future, however, I'm done with giving Kryptonite any more money!!!

my friend told me about this bic pen thing a few days ago and last night i had some time to actually try it. after about 5 minutes of twisting the pen around, off popped my lock. RAD! old news i know, just add me to the statistics.

its in all the new yesterday and today as well...

reprinted from the boston herald on sf gate:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/09/16/national1400EDT0609.DTL

also on the front page of the ny times...and nytimes.com (if you are a subscriber the story is called "the pen is mightier than the lock" under the new york region heading)

newbie, yes.
fool, no.

I have an older Kryptonite lock that has a more commercial cylinder lock in it,the kind found on soda machines. It also keys from the side not from the bottom like the new ones have. I tried to use many pens on them and could not even find one that even fit over the cylinder. All I can think is that Kyrptonite over the years went to a cheaper lock manufactuer. These locks have been used for many years with very good results,if not you would not find them on outdoor vending machine. Is this another example of a company going overseas to by a cheaper component for the product I do not know,but it sure looks like it. I did read on another link that they are going to change out either the whole lock or just the locking bar. I still think it is the best lock out there. I'm just glad I bought mine 7 years ago

I have an older Krypto lock I purchased back in 90 or 91. Th ekey goes into the end of the bar but I don't think a pen will fit into it. I'll have to check. The circular style lock was once billed as "pick proof". I guess that just ain't so any more.

'bent Brian

if your going to replace a u-lock from screwing it up, jsut go get a heavy bike chain. Avenir sells one for $30 that is every bit as good as the Kryptonite ones, and uses a double-row key instead of the cyndrilical keys kryptonite uses.

Anyways, you can get that lock to work again, you just have to be very patient...I got mine unstuck plenty of times last night.

yep.
i've got an evolution 2000 mini.
took me about 3 minutes with the bic pen.
and that's my first shot at it. with some practise i bet i could do better.

this totally sucks.
i'm going to switch to something without a barrel key for sure.

i hope kryptonite does something for us.
i've been on the phone with them twice, they still don't know what they are going to do, but she said they "wouldn't leave me high and dry"

hope not.

thekid.

I own a bike shop in Oakland California.

I called Kryptonite after reading this thread and asked them what the official word was.
The nice lady you all reference told me that it's true, some of their locks can be "compromised" and described the same locks you all did.

I asked her if I should take the locks off the shelf, she said yes and that they should have an action plan for consumers, retailers and distributors by the end of today. She took my number and name and said that they'd call.

I'm sure you'll all hear as soon as I do, I just thought I'd offer help from a different perspective.

hey guys!

this is exploding!

i just got back from the NPR studios here in NYC where i interviewed with michele norris for today's edition of All Things Considered - it airs at 4PM est on most public radio stations around here. check your local listings!!!!!!

Dang,

Ben why are you getting all the attention? Share the love with some of the other "pioneers"; me, unaesthetic, etc......

JK, thats awesome for you. Know what time it airs on the west coast by chance?

I was thinking that we should all set up something similar to this bike in our respective city centers...

A mild form of protest and something to do with our now useless locks, other than heavy clunky windchimes, that is.

My Kryptonite lock was bought around '89 or '90. The key fits on the end of the shaft. I got the keyway to turn 90 degrees immediately with the bic pen. A couple more minutes, and I opened the lock.

I think it should be kept in mind that this problem doens't seem limited to Kryptonite locks, new or old, but rather all locks using cylindrical keys. :(

I have had three bikes stolen in the last five years with Kryptonite locks, all cases, the lock was taken with the bike. I've heard of this picking with a compass point.

Forget the warranty, I don't know anyone who has made a successfull claim against Kryptonite.

"strange how attached I am to having a kryptonite on my bike. I keep thinking of everything else as a cheap rip-off."

word.

i am thinking about just buying a lenght of generic chain and a masterlock.

Just another cheap bike accessory. Folks don't buy bike accessories....they just can't hold up.
Make your own.

Dang,

Ben why are you getting all the attention? Share the love with some of the other "pioneers"; me, unaesthetic, etc......


:)

i don't know why i'm getting so much attention. perhaps my location makes it easy to get in touch with me. i'm just answering the emails and calls as they come in!

anyway, i give you guys a little love on the page you get when you link to the moves - http://thirdrate.com/misc/locks/krypto.php

do you have a link you'd like your name to link to? unaesthetic (chris) asked me to link to his site, http://www.collectornerd.com

I got this the first time through, a mate of mine worked on New Cyclist magazine in the UK in '92 when they picked up the story. Things have moved on but the model that seemed to come out of all the tests best in the UK at that time was the Squire UBX which has a 'proper' key. Don't know if it's avaialble in the US.

The other tip was to go to a motorcycle dealer and get induction hardened (!important!) chain and padlock, and loop it through the bike frame and wheels so it's difficult to get a prybar or jack inside it to pop it apart. HTH

what i dont like is the video that shows thieves how to use the pen, I think this is the last thing they should show on here

I think it should be kept in mind that this problem doens't seem limited to Kryptonite locks, new or old, but rather all locks using cylindrical keys. :(

100% True. And another variation is to pop the cover off with a chisel and then when all the pins have fallen out use the biro.

Alright, so my 3-week old Kryptolok is worthless. "What's Krytonite going to do about it?" I thought.

I went to their corporate website. Nothing. Actually, something: They moved. That address that I sent my warranty info to is 2 years obsolete, and the current occupants neither return the mail to sender nor forward it to kryptonite -- EVEN THOUGH THEIR NEW LOCATION IS ONLY 1 BLOCK AWAY. Very clever business strategy.

OK, so my warranty is also worthless. My lock purchase was now officially a big fat waste. Time to head to the bike store.

The shelves are empty of Kryponite locks. I ask the employees how often they rotate stock. "Oh, locks go through quite quickly."

OK, so the warranty book that came with my new lock that listed an obsolete address that effectively SILENTLY (how was I to know that they moved? I was never expected to visit their website. I reread the Warranty Limitations just to make sure.) junked my warranty sat in a Kryptonite warehouse for years or, worse yet, just wasn't reprinted since they relocated.

That, my friends, is negligence times two. Assume now that they knew about the BIC compromise *and* knowingly sent out old addresses with the warranty booklets, well, that's criminal.

I asked the bike shop guy what he expected Kryptonite to do, and he said, "Not much. We'll trade in your lock for one of a different brand, but I'm not expecting Kryptonite to do you any favors."

I asked him then if he'd join in a class action lawsuit. He smiled. I smiled - what option was left to us??

(Anybody else make the mistake of mailing off their warranty info to 320 Turnpike Street instead of 437 Turnpike Street?)

From the Kryptonite website (http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=home_home) :
Passionate, fanatical, driven, consumed. Perhaps we're the ones who should be locked up.
Yes, quite right, maybe they should be locked up.

If Krypto is still working on a solution to this problem how did http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640
know they are replacing locks.

And on top of that, that article only lists the evo and the kryptolock...what about those of us with the NYC + disc lock (which is also worthless)

I would imagine the majority of us had sent it to the wrong address.
I think that I had sent it to was whatever address was on the paperwork,
which is probably the wrong one since I had received no conformation that
they had received it. I like the class action lawsuit idea. I am pretty sure
whatever Krypto decides to do for us "users" is not going to make people happy.

You know, Khuon, I asked the locksmiths if I bought in the U locks, could they replace it, and they said they could NOT. I know they gave me an explanation, but it went a little bit over my head. Basically, it cannot be done... well, at least by your average locksmith. Maybe Kryptonite could do it.

Thanks for the positive comments, Holligan! Seriously, if I could do more, I would, and I still need to shop for my backup bike locks too. I am considering OnGuard, but I need more information as to how many pounds the OnGuard locks weigh and what kind of lock is on their Ulock. If it's a solid case, but it's still a cylinder lock, then I will not consider it.

I'm still through with Kryptonite. I can't wait to tell them this when I go to Interbike. And while I'm there, I'm going to talk to every company with bike locks and grill the hell out of them about their product and ask for their warranty, take pictures, get contact information, and I'll report back to the forums.

Koffee

You're going to interbike? The one at T.O? If you're going, Ill see ya there!

If Krypto is still working on a solution to this problem how did http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640
know they are replacing locks.

They knew because Kryptonite issued a press release on BusinessWire on Thursday saying exactly this. Funny, though, that Kryptonite hasn't put ANYTHING about this issue on their own web site. There's pretty much nothing that Kryptonite could do at this point to regain my trust in them. (Visit businesswire.com if you want to read the press release.)

they just called me. i need to send them my old keys and they will send me a new lock.

they just called me. i need to send them my old keys and they will send me a new lock.
Great! Ask for their most expensive item. Then try like hell to open it with a BIC. Lather, rinse, repeat, profit!!

Um, they'll be calling me too right? Oh wait, I mailed my phone number to the wrong address...

they just called me. i need to send them my old keys and they will send me a new lock.

Nice, I wonder if kryptonite will do that for the people who's locks are also affected but weren't quoted in a news paper.

[off topic]i wish i had a dollar for everytime someone viewed this thread...[/off topic]

Another one here, not Kraptonite, but Oxford (UK company) and even worse, it has a Sold Secure sticker on it to show that it has been independently tested and found to be a satisfactory deterrent against theft. Sold Secure stuff gets discounts on insurance in the UK, you tell me if the whole system is corrupt or not.

Right click, save as.

www.zanx.net/pick2.wmv

Kryptonite just called me too. They're sending me a different kind of lock for my NY chain, that I assume will not be susceptible to the pen.

The woman I spoke to told me that they are doing the free replacement for locks under 2 years old, and because of my KK***** key code, they knew it was bought recently. I have to mail back my keys, and they will send me a new lock. New locks will be shipped priority mail.

Other, older owners will either have to provide some proof of purchase, or are only eligible for a partial credit/refund/replacement.

This is straight from Kryptonite. I'll be getting my lock by early next week since I didn't want to mail my keys yet (I still use my EV with another padlock), so she took my CC information and will send the new lock today/tomorrow. When I return my keys, they will shred my CC information.

I think Kryptonite hit this right on the head with customer service. They have restored my faith.

eeh i think the lesson learned here is just use combination locks :)

hey guys!

this is exploding!

i just got back from the NPR studios here in NYC where i interviewed with michele norris for today's edition of All Things Considered - it airs at 4PM est on most public radio stations around here. check your local listings!!!!!!

I went to the NPR website and the links to the audio of their shows is F***'d! They end up pointing to completely different stories. To get the Kryptonite lock story, go to this link and click on the audio link on the page:
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3924659

Anyways, here's a transcript of the interview that I did after I finally found it. Mispellings and mistakes are mine.

Can Plastic Pen Defeat Kryptonite locks?
September 17, 2004

Michele Norris: Bicylcle shops around the country have pulled a style of U-lock off their shelves as word spread that they have a weakness. The Bic ball-point pen. Many locks with a cylindrical key are at risk. The Kryptonite is one possible, one popular brand. Benjamin Running is a graphic designer in New York city. He helped bring the lock's vulnerability to national attention with a demonstration video on his website. He says a quarter of a million people have logged on to learn how to pick these locks.

Benjamin Running: The first time I did it, it took a while, you know, you sort of have to get your technique down. The first time it take maybe a few minutes. But after 5 or 10 times I had it down to 5 seconds. Literally the time it takes to open the lock with a key.

MN: Well, I happen to have a pen in my hand, and, uh, what I do? How do I do this? I have a pen and a lock here.

BR: Yeah, the pen gets inserted into the lock. And at that point and time it's basically just a matter of jamming it in there good and jiggling it around a little bit, until you get some traction, and then twisting it.

MN: Well, it's not popping open. But I definitely have some movement in there.

BR: You have some traction.

MN: If I, like you, could do this 5 or 10 times, it's clear that I put this Kryptonite open, and I, and lo and behold it doesn't take Superman to operate the lock.

BR: Would be bike thieves with a little bit of time on their hands who can practise this, uh, you know, can obviously pop these locks open very quickly.

MN: What's the word on the street, I mean, bicyclists as they talk to each other? What are they saying?

BR: This is, the word is spreading fast. Uh, which is a good thing because if you walk down any street in NYC, you're going to see a dozen, you're going to see 20 bikes locked up on some blocks. And, you know, 90% of these bikes have Kryptonite locks on them. And, um, at first, you know, on Monday and Tuesday it was the bike specific groups and websites that had these stories on them. But now it's spreading to the New York Times, the Daily News, I think people are, uh, realizing the severe problem which affects them.

MN: Well, before this happened, you were using your bike on a daily basis, and what are you going to do now, how are you going to secure it when you venture out of the house or the apartment?

BR: Well, I've purchased a flat lock which uses, sorry a U-lock that uses a flat key. And I'm also going to purchase a new padlock which I'm going to use on my existing Kryptonite chain. And several brands have been recommended on various Internet newsgroups. Um. So we're going to look for something a little more secure.

MN: Alright Benjamin, thanks so much for coming in to talk to us.

BR: Thanks very much Michele.

MN: Benjamin Running is a graphic designer in New York City and avid cyclist in search of a new lock. Although I couldn't open up a lock, one of our producers, Ben Gilbert, popped open a colleagues lock in a matter of minutes. The owner of that lock plans to take Kryptonite up on its offer to upgrade the lock.