General Cycling Discussion - Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

I've been reading this thread for a while now but the lawyer bashing motivated me to finally post.

Just out of curiosity, in a lawsuit, shouldn't the victim get most of the money and the lawyer get his/her fair share for their services?
And just out of curiosity, let's say for example, a $10 million settlement, how much does the victim actually get usually and how much does the laywer get? And who "needs" this money more?

I believe Kryptonite have reacted to this now, rather than before, due to the huge public demand and widespread knowledge of this hack. I am sceptical when people say that they didn't know about this.

As for the lawsuit? I don't support that - it appears to be another example of the nasty litigation culture.

--

Maybe I'll get a replacement cylinder from Kryptonite (I registered my KryptoLok Plus). In the mean time, I'm wondering what locking system to best use. Currently I'm using 2 U locks - one being the KryptoLok Plus, the 2nd a cheap noname U lock.

I'd like to supplement my good U lock (either a replacement Krypto, or a new OnGuard/etc), with a chain or heavy cable, and use the cheap U lock on my beater.

Any recommendations for $40-50 cables and chains, and which of these is better to supplement a U lock (i.e. requiring more effort to remove both)?

KRYPTONITE OFFICIALLY OFFERS FREE 'UPGRADE' FOR DODGY CYLINDER LOCKS

Well done, people, the squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Now I just have to hope I can get a refund for my el-crappo-brand ('Bumper') U-lock, which from the looks of posts here would suffer from the same problem, though I haven't managed to duplicate it yet.

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=urgent_update


KRYPTONITE OFFERING FREE UPGRADE WORLDWIDE FOR CONSUMERS’ HIGH END TUBULAR CYLINDER LOCKS

"Unprecedented Offer [sic] Intended to Address the Needs of Loyal Consumers

Canton, MA September 17, 2004 - Kryptonite today announced it will provide free product upgrades for certain locks purchased since September 2002, in response to consumer concerns about tubular cylinder lock technology. Consumers can visit the company’s Website (www.kryptonitelock.com) on Wednesday afternoon, September 22, 2004, to learn how they can participate in the security upgrade program.

Consumers who have purchased an Evolution lock, KryptoLok lock, New York Chain, New York Noose, Evolution Disc Lock, KryptoDisco or DFS Disc Lock in the last two years are eligible for a product upgrade [sic] free of charge from Kryptonite. Customers will need to have either registered their key number, registered for the Kryptonite anti-theft protection offer or have proof of purchase to qualify.

Specifically, Kryptonite will provide for free cross bars featuring the company’s new disc-style cylinder lock technology to consumers who have purchased Evolution and KryptoLok series products. In addition the company will replace for free recently purchased Evolution Disc Locks on New York Chain and New York Noose with its “Molly Lock”, a heavy duty solid steel padlock. Kryptonite also will upgrade recently purchased disc locks.

Consumers who have had one of the Kryptonite locks mentioned with a tubular cylinder for longer than two years will be eligible for a sizeable rebate on the upgraded products. This program will be administered through Kryptonite dealers and distributors.

A distributor and dealer swap program will be rolled out through direct communication from Kryptonite to all its partners.

Full details about this unprecedented program [sic] will be available on Kryptonite’s website by afternoon Eastern Standard Time, Wednesday, September 22, 2004, at www.kryptonite.com"

Err, they haven't said anything new yet :)

No matter what you may think about lawyers, Kryptonite knew that their locks with this type of locking mechanism could be easily opened with an ordinary bic pen but continued to mislead their customers about the security of their products.

You don't know this to be true. That's just speculation. In fact, the initial reports here from those who called Kryptonite was that they said they were trying to duplicate the problem. If they knew about it, there would have been no need to duplicate it.

Just out of curiosity, in a lawsuit, shouldn't the victim get most of the money and the lawyer get his/her fair share for their services?
And just out of curiosity, let's say for example, a $10 million settlement, how much does the victim actually get usually and how much does the laywer get? And who "needs" this money more?

Usually all this does is hurt the consumer and the company. The company loses money, so they cannot afford to do as much as they could (if they would do anyhting at all is a different matter), and the consumer loses since nothing will now get fixed since they already had their "retribution".

All in all, the only winner is the lawyer....anyone who signs up for this `suit should be fully aware all they are doing is kicking a down dog, and not doing anything of benefit.

Even if Kryptonite knew about this in 1992, the difference here is
as I said before "the Internet". Info travels much faster. this thread was
opened 9 days ago, has been viewd over 400k times (last count I saw),
and sparked national news stories.
How many people knew about this in 1992?
I rest my case.

I am not a lawyer, have never played one on tv, and stayed in a holiday
inn on a few occaisions.
The scum sucking pig of an lawyer is from Ft. Worth texas. I say string 'im up.

Ok, I need to stop now otherwise I'm gonna get on some hugeass lawyer rant.

Marty

As Kryptonite products not mentioned - or pictured - in the 1992 article, how can the tort lawyers make a case with that article?

I shall soon update today's story on the class action, which quotes my site, with a few more extracts from the journalist's original article.

No lawyers have asked me to send them a fax of the 1992 New Cyclist magazine .

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk

No lawyers have asked me to send them a fax of the 1992 New Cyclist magazine .

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk

i'm not a lawyer, but i would be curious to read the article. does anybody know of a copy of it online? or can anybody with a print copy of it scan it and put it online? (although getting permission from the copyright owner could complicate that...)

20 minutes late on their message now

Whoops, I was wrong. They are two hours behind us, not before.

Whoops, I was wrong. They are two hours behind us, not before.

and now they're saying (from http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=home_home)

KRYPTONITE STATEMENT WILL BE AVAILABLE ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2004 BY
5:00PM PACIFIC STANDARD TIME

so 5 pm for us is 7 pm for you, i guess.

- rich

You don't know this to be true. That's just speculation. In fact, the initial reports here from those who called Kryptonite was that they said they were trying to duplicate the problem. If they knew about it, there would have been no need to duplicate it. Right. You must also believe that cigarette companies had no idea that cigarettes were addictive or could cause cancer. Companies would never, ever lie for their own financial benefit. :rolleyes:

Another great article from www.BikeBiz.co.uk : http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4668

From kryptonite:

KRYPTONITE OFFERS FREE PRODUCT EXCHANGES TO ALL CURRENT OWNERS OF KRYPTONITE TUBULAR CYLINDER LOCKS

If you currently own a Kryptonite tubular cylinder lock and are concerned about the security of this lock, Kryptonite will exchange this lock for you with a comparable non-tubular cylinder lock.

To participate in the exchange program, please send an email to kryptonite@irco.com

You will receive an auto response asking you for information including your name, address and lock type. It will also give you information on exchanging your lock. Kryptonite will pay the postage for all exchanges. Please note that this email address sends an auto response – do not send questions to this email address as it is not monitored. If you have questions, please send an email to locktalk@irco.com

We expect locks to begin shipping in mid-October.

We expect locks to begin shipping in mid-October.


So does this mean anywhere I go from now on, I have to bring my bike inside with me?
They should be shipping these things ASAP. Now I have to worry about some jackass
with a BIC pen stealing my ****. I had talked with a friend of mine about this Bic crap,
and he said that yesterday when he got out of work, he found a nice bic pen in his lock.
Idiot left the pen in it after not being able to open it...

Be careful Bredren and Sistren.

Right. You must also believe that cigarette companies had no idea that cigarettes were addictive or could cause cancer. Companies would never, ever lie for their own financial benefit. :rolleyes:

Hardly a similar comparison. Cigarette companies actively denied and discredited the mountains of evidence against their product. Do you see Kryptonite doing that? If anything, Kryptonite has done the opposite. A better comparison would be to look at MasterLocks reported response to the reports of their Street Cuffs.

From kryptonite:

KRYPTONITE OFFERS FREE PRODUCT EXCHANGES TO ALL CURRENT OWNERS OF KRYPTONITE TUBULAR CYLINDER LOCKS

If you currently own a Kryptonite tubular cylinder lock and are concerned about the security of this lock, Kryptonite will exchange this lock for you with a comparable non-tubular cylinder lock.

To participate in the exchange program, please send an email to kryptonite@irco.com

You will receive an auto response asking you for information including your name, address and lock type. It will also give you information on exchanging your lock. Kryptonite will pay the postage for all exchanges. Please note that this email address sends an auto response – do not send questions to this email address as it is not monitored. If you have questions, please send an email to locktalk@irco.com

We expect locks to begin shipping in mid-October.

Were did you find this news?

I think this is worth emailing out to all the forum members, but would like a refference to this information.

It's up on the web site right now.

Here it is - it appears like they will cover ALL kryptonite lock owners, which is the right thing to do.

Canton, MA September 22, 2004 – Kryptonite today announced that the company is offering free product exchanges to all consumers who are concerned about the security of their current Kryptonite tubular cylinder locks.

At no charge to them, consumers will be able to exchange their current Kryptonite tubular cylinder lock for a Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock. Kryptonite will begin exchanging products within a few weeks as it accelerates product availability.

“At Kryptonite, we understand the responsibility that comes with being the market leader. Since we learned last week about the possibility of compromising some of the industry’s tubular cylinder locks, we have been working diligently to devise the best and most responsible solution to address the concerns of consumers and to meet the needs of our distributors and retailers,” said Steve Down, General Manager of Kryptonite. “We decided to simplify and expand our planned product upgrade program so that we could expedite the process for consumers and eliminate any lingering doubt in their minds about their locks. Standing by our customers is the responsible thing to do for those who rely on our security products to keep their valuables safe.”

Kryptonite is offering a free product exchange to consumers who currently have Kryptonite locks using tubular cylinders. To participate in the free product exchange offer, consumers can visit the company’s Web site at www.kryptonite.com for registration instructions. As part of this effort, Kryptonite will initiate a swap program through direct communication with all of its distributors and retailers.

Mr. Down concluded, “At Kryptonite, we constantly remind ourselves of our responsibility to lead and offer solutions – not excuses – that strengthen Kryptonite’s relationships with consumers and channel partners. By instituting the most comprehensive program possible, we believe our company has again taken the lead in providing unprecedented customer support and service.”

DOH! I only saw the long PR, not the short snippet, thanks.

Kryptonite comes through!!!!

I've sent my email to them. Waiting for the automated reply with instructions. Anyone get a reply yet?

Thank you for contacting Kryptonite.

If you have a Kryptonite lock that has a tubular cylinder (a round key
cylinder) you are eligible for a Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock
exchange. The steps you take to participate in the exchange are:

1. Provide the information listed below to Kryptonite.
2. Return your current tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock to us (postage
paid).
3. Kryptonite will send you your new lock.

Please provide the following information:

Name:
Street Address:
City:
Province:
State/County:
Country:
Zip Code/Postal Code:
Daytime phone number:
E-mail address:

How many locks with tubular cylinders will you be exchanging?
What lock model(s) do you own (examples: Evolution 2000, Kryptolok,
Gorgon)?
What is/are your tubular key number(s), (which are stamped on your keys)?


Please send this information:
By e-mail to: lockexchange@irco.com
By fax to: 781-821-0780
By mail to: Kryptonite Lock Exchange, 437 Turnpike Street, Canton, MA
02021.

Once we receive the above information, we will contact you with specific
details as to how to return your Kryptonite lock (postage paid). Upon
receipt of your tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock, we will send to you a
replacement Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock free of charge.
Replacement locks will be sent beginning mid-October on a first come, first
served basis, based on product availability.

If you have questions, please contact Kryptonite Customer Service at
1-800-729-5625 (United States & Canada) or 001-781-828-6655 (outside of the
United States).

NOTE: Please do not reply back to this email message. Please email the
information above to lockexchange@irco.com.

based on product availability?!?

No reply for me yet... I have mastered unlocking my EV, I may just keep this thing as a collectors item.

based on product availability?!?

We'll be getting the new versions that were to be introduced at Interbike... They're still ramping up production. So it's a good idea to get your claim in as early as possible, so as to be in the first groups shipped out...

I have a Trek (By Kryptonite) Ali-Baba lock, it has one of the circular keys, does anyone know if this lock is covered under the lock exchange program?

Also, is Ali-Baba the TREK model name, or the Kryptonite name?
If so, does anyone know the Kryptonite model name?

http://www.trekbikes.com/accessories/product_detail.jsp?product_id=170&category_id=167

Call kryptonite and find out. Easiest answer. Why ask a 3rd party on this when you can just get it straight from the horse's mouth ;)

well, looks like they are doing the right thing. Given it might take longer than expected, but remember, october is only a week off.

Hmm, looks like I might have some lightweight locks to carry around again...that onguard lock's crossbar being in my messenger bag was starting to dig into my spine :(

This makes me EXTREMELY happy. Now if only their counterparts at Master lock would match this.

Took about 90 minutes to get a response from the Kryptonite autoresponder. They must be getting flooded with requests for info.

Shame you gotta send it back.

Bringing it to an authorised dealer for exchange would be better. I'll have to use a really heavy Abus Granit chain and lock in the meantime.

Still, good that they're swapping at all!

I have a Trek (By Kryptonite) Ali-Baba lock, it has one of the circular keys, does anyone know if this lock is covered under the lock exchange program?

i have a trek (by kryptonite) lock too. i have no idea what the model name is, i don't think there's anything printed on it other than "trek by kryptonite".

what i'm doing is i'm just assuming that it's covered and proceeding from there. leave it up to them to tell you no and then *****, but if they don't say anything just proceed as if it were any other kryptonite lock.

- rich

Yeah I got the "Trek by Kryptonite" lock as well. I think it is the KryptoLock with different plastic, but I could be wrong. I was able to open it via the Bic routine no problem. I'm also making the assumption that this will be covered by their exchange program since it *is* their lock.
I already wrote them and still awaiting a response, we'll see if it's covered... that'll be pretty weak if it's not.

It certainly looks like more kudus to Kryptonite. Although they promise only a 'comparable' lock, they are apparently making the trade available to all tubular cylinder lock owners, regardless of the age of the lock and not just for high end lock owners.

By the way, don't worry about this putting Kryptonite out of business. Kryptonite is owned by Ingersol-Rand which earns about a half billion dollars in net income per year. I'll be interested in reading IR's SEC filings for next quarter to see if they disclose the cost of this lock swap. They are a large public corporation.

My question is...

When we send them our locks.. what are we supposed t use until we get the "bigger and better" kind? Yeah, I know, all of our locks we have now are "sitting ducks" but Id rather use that then a weak ass chain and pad lock.

So, we send them our faulty K locks, and we have to buy something just as good, until we get the new one?

Umm... ok. Can someone clear this up?

holy crap!! this is the first i've heard of it.
and to think i've been using one to lock up the motorcycle!!

i read in one of these threads (can't find it now..) copy of a company release that stated
locks would be replaced only if purchased in the last two years, and had either a sales receipt
or lock had been registered.

is this true? are they gonna weasel out?

My question is...

When we send them our locks.. what are we supposed t use until we get the "bigger and better" kind? Yeah, I know, all of our locks we have now are "sitting ducks" but Id rather use that then a weak ass chain and pad lock.

So, we send them our faulty K locks, and we have to buy something just as good, until we get the new one?

Umm... ok. Can someone clear this up?


1. Buy a spare lock.
2. Keep the bike with you at all times.
3. Don't let the bike out of your sight.
4. Leave your bike at home.
5. Borrow a lock from a buddy.

My question is...

When we send them our locks.. what are we supposed t use until we get the "bigger and better" kind? Yeah, I know, all of our locks we have now are "sitting ducks" but Id rather use that then a weak ass chain and pad lock.

So, we send them our faulty K locks, and we have to buy something just as good, until we get the new one?

Umm... ok. Can someone clear this up?

Again, true Kudos for Citybikes in DC for taking care of us right NOW. I've gotten two replacement locks from them that I can use now, for minimal cost, no major questions asked other than that they know my face in that shop. I'm also glad that K is going to act the part of a responsible company (in their best interest). Get something, anything to add to your tubular lock now so the theif will steal another's bike. Tie it up with a rope!

might want to put this one on the bad list:


originally from the ventoscooters yahoo group:
From: "Paul" <onefastwienerdog@y...>
Date: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:41 am
Subject: Re: attn kryptonite & other cylinder type lock owners!


I have a 2 huge locks that are over 1 1/4" dia. with the cylinder
type lock (a Cobra links clone) and the damn pen will open it, now
I'm bumming because a stupid pen can unlock these monster locks,
Time to shop for a new lock, I have two Kryptonite self coiling
cable locks but I think that they would be easy to cut, yes/no ? The
cable is about 1/2" Dia. and use a normal flat key, I guess they
will have to work for now when I'm out and about,
Paul aka Sporty

that says "Cobra links clone" though. I am going to buy a couple more
sizes of pens and try again with my Cobralinks. I've also emailed their
customer service to ask them if they have tested themselves.

would really not be able to afford replacing this chain. it is mighty, and
thick. bought it for my motorcycle, originally. it's especially difficult to
snap because it's totally round.

-cynsa

My question is...

When we send them our locks.. what are we supposed t use until we get the "bigger and better" kind? Yeah, I know, all of our locks we have now are "sitting ducks" but Id rather use that then a weak ass chain and pad lock.

So, we send them our faulty K locks, and we have to buy something just as good, until we get the new one?

Umm... ok. Can someone clear this up?


weak ass chain and padlock??? no way man - i use a grade 80 grade transport chain for lashing down 10 tonne containers on the ships. the chain has 3/8" thick links, and requires a hydraulic chain cutter to breach it. the lock is a ABUS DISKUS (the round one) lock with a flat key. the beauty of the ABUS diskus is the chain links completely cover the lock shackle, making it impossible to cut with boltcutters. yea it is heavy, but it is one hell of a baddass lock that has stumpoed many theives.

Maybe thats the genius of their customer service. So many wont want to wait that they will just flat out buy new locks, that is, if they get them in stock (that is my option, dont want to wait around w/o my bike for a new lock).

I did't read all of the 36 pages on this subject but i'm wondering why everybody talk only about the Kryptonite lock. We open the "Ming Tay" lock of my girlfriend in a minute with a pen but not my "Supercycle" lock. Can we start a list of "look safe" brand and "unsafe" brand?
Looksafe: Supercycle
Unsafe: Ming Tay, Kryptonite...

Check back a few pages. It's been done already.

Koffee

This is the list of BICed locks complied from bikeforums.net and SHIFT2bikes.org. If in doubt, consider the lock unreliable. Some of the data is the lock type, some are key codes, one is the lock cylinder type. If a brand name isn't mentioned it is probably a Kryptonite. I'm quitting updating this list. My advice is to consider ALL barrel-key locks unsafe.

Good (or no one has been seccussful with this one...YET)

F#### keycode
cobralink lock


Bad

YSE#### keycode (series keys 5130 and 5140)
KK ##### keycode
Kryptonite Evolution 2000 (full size)
kryptonite Evolution 2000 mini
Trek Kryptonite
Master U lock
EV disc lock
Yellow EV2000 disc key series KK####.
Kryptonite CDC, Key number is 5XXX, early 90's
"Schwinn"-labeled U-lock
NBA#### keycode (only 1 person was successful in opening this lock, @5 others couldn't)
Kryptonite 2000
Kryptonite Mini Evo 2000
YSE Mini
NY EV Disc lock
Evo 2000 Mini LS
Kryptonite "MegaDefender"
KryptoLok Plus
Kryptolok by Kryptonite key NBA 5122
SOMA ( http://www.somafab.com/antijack.html ) an SF company. Opened with a Sharpie Ultra Fine Point Permanent Marker.
"ACE II" on lock clynder face (picked by one person and it was difficult)
MASTER brand street cuff
BikeGuard
AVENIR small u-lock (similar to the Krypto NYC chain Lock)
SuperCycle(Canadian Tire) U-lock using a Pilot Hi-Tecpoint V5 pen
Kryptionite "Hard Wire" cable lock
Bike-Guard U-lock
Master Lock pro-sport U-lock
"Ming Tay" lock

I ordered some model 62 Abus locks from Kwiklocks.com. The kwiklocks.com website did not describe the type of key, but according to the Abus website, all of their current locks use flat keys; however, the model 62 was not listed on the Abus website. Apparently the kwiklocks.com Abus model 62 is an older discontinued lock; when my order arrived these locks had the cylindrical tubular key. Don't order this lock! Kwiklocks.com also carries the Abus model 54 X granit; it appears to be a very good, strong lock, w/ flat key. (just so y'all know)...
:)

http://www.abus.de/us/main.asp?ScreenLang=us&select=0900
http://www.kwiklocks.com/abus/abus_2wheel_security.html

why are you all freaking out so much?

as far as i can tell, kryptonite says nothing about needing to take the locks first. in the end i bet they do just ship them out to the distributors. it would be cheaper and more rational. its been working this way ever since the plague, or havent you been reading your foucault?

the form i just filled out only says 'well contact you with further instructions'.

so just chill. dont leave your bike locked outside for long periods and never at night for a couple weeks. then youll have the new flat keyed locks and before you know it youll be missing all the cheap excitement the bic pen had to offer and be hungry for some new petty thrill and some other lame distraction from our sad two-dimensional consumer pseudo-culture in which theft anxiety is such a great high (dont say you arent addicted to checking this thread a hundred times a day you fiends!).

seriously theres nothing more to say. i just got some new bike tires in preparation for the rainy season here in oregon. yay.

This is the list of BICed locks complied from bikeforums.net and SHIFT2bikes.org. Bad

YSE#### keycode (series keys 5130 and 5140)
...
"Ming Tay" lock

You can add Basta Safe XL (Krypto U-lock clone, I s'pose) to the list.

The pins are far enough from the central peg that it wasn't easy, but we managed to open it twice with a Bic soft feel medium pen (and since I seem to have chosen to be specific, the pen was blue :)

EDIT: typo

-Dont leave your locks outside for long periods?
-Dont let it out of your sight?
-Take it everywhere you go?

Ok, I would, but considering that its a BIKE... thats kinds hard and considering that I have class and work ALL day (like most of you) thats kinda hard to do to.

Cant you see? K is tearing us a part! Dont you see, thats what they want us to do! Damn you Kryptonite! Damn you!

But Ill try the chain and other lock for right now.