General Cycling Discussion - Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

Interesting note: Performance bike still has dozens of Kryptonite barrel-cylindar locks on their shelves, but has sold out of OnGuard locks with the flat keys. I'm so glad I bought an OnGuard several months ago.

This is totally unacceptable. If I return my lock then wait some undetermined time for the new one I will not have any lock for that period which I use every day.

I just bought an EV 2000 mini on Sept. 1 for $65. Now I need to return it and leave my bike unlocked for perhaps 2-4wks. No way.

This is ridiculous.

Al

This is totally unacceptable. If I return my lock then wait some undetermined time for the new one I will not have any lock for that period which I use every day.

I just bought an EV 2000 mini on Sept. 1 for $65. Now I need to return it and leave my bike unlocked for perhaps 2-4wks. No way.

This is ridiculous.

Al

Poor baby! What would you do if you crashed your bike and it had to go to the shop for repair? Do you not any back up plans? Why not go buy a length of security chain and a high security padlock? Then, when you get your new Kryptonite lock, sell it on ebay to another impatient cyclist. Maybe you'll get a premium for it. Or you could keep both locks and leave one wherever you usually lock the bike and use the second for other trips.

Keep in mind that right now your EV 2000 is not a lock - it's a kickstand.

I tried again to hack my cobralinks last night, really tapping the pen cap in there hard and using rubber gloves to get the traction to twist. still no luck.

here is what their customer support had to say. a little iffy, since obviously even kryptos that were not manufactured in China are still vulnerable to the problem...

(name masked to protect the employee)

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:42:06 -0400
From: LockItt.com - CycleBitz.com <xxx@lockitt.com>
To: cynsa bonorris <cynsa@well.com>
Subject: Re: cylindrical lock vulnerability

Kryptonite locks are made in China.
Cobralinks are not.
You will not damage the lock with a bic pen :-)
Still, our German made ABUS locks are far ahead of this problem (and have been for many years)

regards

xxxxxxx

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.lockitt.com
www.cyclebitz.com
www.eclipseluggage.com

---------------------------------------------------------------
tel 508 747 6546
fax 781 846 0454
---------------------------------------------------------------

Why would I need a back up for a lock? If it fails I'd go buy one the same day.

As to a back up bike, yes I have one (actually two)

My issues is that I owned this lock for 2wk only to find it is faulty. You think they would offer a full money refund for folks who just purchased it, say within the last month or so. My LBS won't take it back since I modified it to add the bracket holder and don't have the original box anymore.

I'd say the EV2000 is better than nothing, its still a deterent. As as you state if it is no better than a kick stand why should I have to pay to get a replacement?

Bottom line is I'd be happy to go out and buy a new lock, if Krypto would provide a refund if I sent back the faulty lock with recipt.

Al

If I return my lock then wait some undetermined time for the new one I will not have any lock for that period which I use every day.

If Kryptonite does the responsible thing, which they seem to have done so far this week, you won't have to send in your lock until you receive the replacement. Once you do, simply reuse the box that the new lock was shipped in; apply the enclosed RMA label; and drop it at your FedEx/UPS/USPS center. (This is just speculative.) You'll never have to go a second without a lock.

If you're like me, though, and simply couldn't wait for a replacement, check out Brands Cycle (on Long Island) for good deals on locks. I was looking for a replacement 'mini' lock, and didn't find what I was looking for locally. Brands has the OnGuard Mini Brute (http://brandscycle.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2032&Catalog=39) on sale right now for $36.96 and doesn't charge (out-of-state) tax or shipping. I ordered four locks (for friends/colleagues), and the 20-lb package took only six days to arrive. This is one beefy lock.

In the meantime, I'll happily wait the two or three weeks to get my Krypto replaced.

Well the e-mail I got said "Upon receipt of your tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock, we will send to you a
replacement Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock free of charge.
Replacement locks will be sent beginning mid-October on a first come, first
served basis, based on product availability."

But I will likely order that mini-lock $40 is not too bad. It looks to be a 1:1 replacement for the EV2000 mini.

Al

If Kryptonite does the responsible thing, which they seem to have done so far this week, you won't have to send in your lock until you receive the replacement. Once you do, simply reuse the box that the new lock was shipped in; apply the enclosed RMA label; and drop it at your FedEx/UPS/USPS center. (This is just speculative.) You'll never have to go a second without a lock.

I
In the meantime, I'll happily wait the two or three weeks to get my Krypto replaced.
Anybody can fill out a form and claim they have a lock. This way they (Kryptonite) have something tangible to work with and can safeguard themselves against fraud. I don't like this but I can understand the position.

Note to all NY Chain owners: If you have the NY Chain or Noose and you DON'T want the "Molly Lock" you NEED to put down that you have an EV Disc Lock.
If you say that you have the NY Chain or Noose you're getting a "Molly Lock".

DO NOT MENTION YOU HAVE THE CHAIN OR YOU WILL GET THE "MOLLY LOCK"
I can't make this ANY CLEARER so if you make a mistake don't complain to me.

Those who notate that they have the EV Disc will (as I was told) get the NEW version of the lock (pictured below)
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/1823/NEWEVDISC.gif

"Upon receipt of your tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock, we will send to you a replacement...
I stand corrected. Looks like Kryptonite might have dropped the ball on the exchange procedure.



[The Brute Mini] looks to be a 1:1 replacement for the EV2000 mini.
Not quite 1:1. The Brute is noticably heavier for those who are weight-conscious.

I stand corrected. Looks like Kryptonite might have dropped the ball on the exchange procedure.




They just don't want a bunch of chowderheads ripping them off by claiming they have a lock then disappearing. Otherwise they'd have to ask for credit card info or something along those lines to avoid being massively defrauded.

Anybody can fill out a form and claim they have a lock.
Good point. Typically though, a credit card number (or such) is taken down for the return. If you don't return the defective product within a given time, you're simply charged for the replacement - no loss for the company.

Good point. Typically though, a credit card number (or such) is taken down for the return. If you don't return the defective product within a given time, you're simply charged for the replacement - no loss for the company.

I would much prefer this type of exchange. In fact I wouldn't even mind if they charged my card and send me a new lock, then credited it when the got the old one back. That is how I have returned computer parts in the past when I needed them fast.

I did order the On Guard mini-brute (not from source given above, they were out, so I paid a bit more inc. shipping) Its too bad it heavier, the EV2000 mini is 1.6lbs, one of the reasons I chose it compared to larger locks. Does the brute come with a bracket to mount to bike for carrying?

Al

Good point. Typically though, a credit card number (or such) is taken down for the return. If you don't return the defective product within a given time, you're simply charged for the replacement - no loss for the company.
That would work if they were set up to sell retail. They don't have the facilities to sell products directly. They direct you to a "partner site" that handles the retail aspect.

I would much prefer this type of exchange. In fact I wouldn't even mind if they charged my card and send me a new lock, then credited it when the got the old one back. That is how I have returned computer parts in the past when I needed them fast.



Al
Yes but you bought the parts from that company directly didn't you? Things work a bit differently when you're a retail company rather than a strictly manufacturing company.

Anybody can fill out a form and claim they have a lock. This way they (Kryptonite) have something tangible to work with and can safeguard themselves against fraud. I don't like this but I can understand the position.

Note to all NY Chain owners: If you have the NY Chain or Noose and you DON'T want the "Molly Lock" you NEED to put down that you have an EV Disc Lock. If you say that you have the NY Chain or Noose you're getting a "Molly Lock". Those who notate that they have the EV Disc will (as I was told) get the NEW version of the lock (pictured below)
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/1823/NEWEVDISC.gif

Wow it comes with the same lighted key as the fahgaddaboudit lock I have. Cept be warned, that specific key is kinda weak and will break from the key ring quickly.
It comes with one of those little cables for securing the seat too, cute.

Wow it comes with the same lighted key as the fahgaddaboudit lock I have. Cept be warned, that specific key is kinda weak and will break from the key ring quickly.
It comes with one of those little cables for securing the seat too, cute.Yeah the lighted key is really weak at the attachment point. The cable is a "reminder" it goes from the lock to the throttle when used on a motorcycle's disc brake. (If you didn't know that)

Does the brute come with a bracket to mount to bike for carrying?
Nope - nothing but a case of five keys. It never occurred to me to check for a bracket; I've never used one.

everyone should email kryptonite and ask them to either sned the replacement locks to their distributors so we can make in-store exchanges or to use credit card exchanges.

they are vague in the email form and i think they will realize that one or both of these options would be better for everyone.

Couple of things on the Canadian front.

A toronto lawyer is filing a class action lawsuit against bike lock makers to the tune of $200 million.

Story here:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1095933835719&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154


Also, the Mountain Equipment Co-op is offering full refunds for MEC branded (and possibly other) locks purchased at its stores. I have three of these and are returning them tonight.

no details on the website, but here is the link anyway:

http://www.mec.ca/

Interesting note: Performance bike still has dozens of Kryptonite barrel-cylindar locks on their shelves, but has sold out of OnGuard locks with the flat keys. I'm so glad I bought an OnGuard several months ago.

Give Bicycle Express a call. They are on Williams between 3rd and 4th street in downtown SJ. They told me they may be stocking OnGuard very soon now.

Master Lock issued the following press release:

September 17, 2004 We understand that instructions to fashion lock-picking tools to violate tubular cylinders have been posted in the media. While Master Lock utilizes tubular cylinders in select cable locks and U-bars, we are pleased to announce that these instructions do NOT affect Master Lock’s high security U-bars, Force 5 and 6. In addition, Master Lock’s patented Cuff lock offers maximum security with an advanced push-button cylinder. Master Lock products containing other tubular cylinders continue to offer a highly-effective deterrent to theft, which is the most important function of any locking device. No one takes security more seriously than Master Lock, and we stand behind our products in two significant ways. First, all products have a Lifetime Guarantee against manufacturing defects. Second, the majority of our U-bars include an Anti-Theft Guarantee, which provides for the reimbursement of a bicycle’s purchase price if the lock is violated and the bicycle is stolen. Reflecting our industry leadership and commitment to product excellence, Master Lock is always innovating to further enhance the security provided by our products. In fact, we have already developed design enhancements for our tubular cylinder products to stay ahead of the latest lock-picking techniques.

Has anyone picked the master lock force 5 or 6 with a pen? Master Lock seems to think they are going to skate on this whole thing and let kryptonite take the heat.

Master Lock seems to think they are going to skate on this whole thing and let kryptonite take the heat.
See this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=635563#post635563

MasterLock has chosen denial. Note that they really only address their high end locks and then only by stating that they have an anti-theft guarantee. Of course, if you didn't register for the guarantee, you are hosed. If you ever lose one of the original keys, your guarantee is void as well (read the details on their web site).

Also, low end locks that may be vulnerable are ignored. Kryptonite does not appear to excluding any of their tubular cylinder locks from their exchange program.

"...The cable is a "reminder" it goes from the lock to the throttle when used on a motorcycle's disc brake. (If you didn't know that)..."

a very important reminder!!! ever see a motorcyclist hit the throttle with the
lock still on the front brake disk? not pretty.

*****

i have not been able to open my locks yet (ev disk and kryptonite-4). the bic
pen did not fit perfectly, but when warmed with a lit match first - to the point
where the plastic is, well, plastic - it'll flow right over the center cylinder rod
and harden to an exact fit. i'll try again after a few more beers.

I have a BikeGuard U-lock and was warned by a co-worker that cylinder locks weren't safe. Sure enough, BikeGuard is on the list of unsafe locks. I took a look at the videos, and I'm as shocked as anyone else. However, some locks seem to open a lot easier than others - has anyone considered if the length of the grooves on the key has any correlation to the vulnerability that particular lock is to this method? I'm assuming this works because the BIC pen molds to the length of the of the groves so the locking mechanisms in the U-lock slide to the correct position for the lock to open. Would this have less to do with brand, and more to do with each individual lock?

Maybe I'm just in denial...

I'd try it myself, but I don't have a BIC pen.

Cheers


This is the list of BICed locks complied from bikeforums.net and SHIFT2bikes.org. If in doubt, consider the lock unreliable. Some of the data is the lock type, some are key codes, one is the lock cylinder type. If a brand name isn't mentioned it is probably a Kryptonite. I'm quitting updating this list. My advice is to consider ALL barrel-key locks unsafe.

Good (or no one has been seccussful with this one...YET)

F#### keycode
cobralink lock


Bad

YSE#### keycode (series keys 5130 and 5140)
KK ##### keycode
Kryptonite Evolution 2000 (full size)
kryptonite Evolution 2000 mini
Trek Kryptonite
Master U lock
EV disc lock
Yellow EV2000 disc key series KK####.
Kryptonite CDC, Key number is 5XXX, early 90's
"Schwinn"-labeled U-lock
NBA#### keycode (only 1 person was successful in opening this lock, @5 others couldn't)
Kryptonite 2000
Kryptonite Mini Evo 2000
YSE Mini
NY EV Disc lock
Evo 2000 Mini LS
Kryptonite "MegaDefender"
KryptoLok Plus
Kryptolok by Kryptonite key NBA 5122
SOMA ( http://www.somafab.com/antijack.html ) an SF company. Opened with a Sharpie Ultra Fine Point Permanent Marker.
"ACE II" on lock clynder face (picked by one person and it was difficult)
MASTER brand street cuff
BikeGuard
AVENIR small u-lock (similar to the Krypto NYC chain Lock)
SuperCycle(Canadian Tire) U-lock using a Pilot Hi-Tecpoint V5 pen
Kryptionite "Hard Wire" cable lock
Bike-Guard U-lock
Master Lock pro-sport U-lock
"Ming Tay" lock

It was on Conan tonight. He said that that BiC had to pull their "Buy a pen get a Free bike commercial. :D

Ok so I'm trying to locate a NEW flat key Krypto Evolution Mini. Anyone know where/if I can get one? I don't own an existing one so I can't do the exchange thing. I live in the Philadelphia area.

"Once we receive the above information, we will contact you with specific
details as to how to return your Kryptonite lock (postage paid)."


Has anyone been contacted with these "Specifiic Details" yet? I havent, and i emailed them within an hour of the statement being released.

don't expect more than the automated response. first line reads:

"I will be out of the office starting 09/22/2004 and will not return until
10/01/2004.

Thank you for contacting Kryptonite."

Yeah the lighted key is really weak at the attachment point. The cable is a "reminder" it goes from the lock to the throttle when used on a motorcycle's disc brake. (If you didn't know that)

So if i put that i have an NY chain with EV disc lock, what am i getting? I don't want that molly lock pos.

It is not just the Kryptonite lock that can be compromised with a pen or pen cap. After watching the videos of the Kryptonite lock being opened with the pen, I took a look at my "Club 6 foot Cable Lock" which I have been using to lock my bike. The lock on this device is the same type as the Kryptonite. I found a Bic pen stuck it in the lock, pushed and wiggled and twisted and in 3 seconds (on my first try) the lock popped open.

So beware that it is not just Kryptonite lock that can be opened with the Bic type pen, but ANY SIMILAR LOCKING DEVICE (cylinderical with push pins) that can be opened as well.

Yeah the lighted key is really weak at the attachment point. The cable is a "reminder" it goes from the lock to the throttle when used on a motorcycle's disc brake. (If you didn't know that)

It looks like the same one as the seatpost cable.

So if i put that i have an NY chain with EV disc lock, what am i getting? I don't want that molly lock pos.
You're getting the Molly Lock, because you told them through the inclusion of the words "NY Chain" that it was for the chain and the "Molly Lock is their go to lock for this application due to the fact that they have been producing them for a while now and have a better backstock of them. The EV disc is sold seperately for MOTORCYCLES. If you had said that you had JUST the EV Disc you'd have been fine.

It is not just the Kryptonite lock that can be compromised with a pen or pen cap. After watching the videos of the Kryptonite lock being opened with the pen, I took a look at my "Club 6 foot Cable Lock" which I have been using to lock my bike. The lock on this device is the same type as the Kryptonite. I found a Bic pen stuck it in the lock, pushed and wiggled and twisted and in 3 seconds (on my first try) the lock popped open.

So beware that it is not just Kryptonite lock that can be opened with the Bic type pen, but ANY SIMILAR LOCKING DEVICE (cylinderical with push pins) that can be opened as well.Thanks it's been established that any and all tubular style locks are suspect and shouldn't be trusted. We've got almost a thousand posts stating the exact same thing.

It looks like the same one as the seatpost cable.
The EV disc that I pictured is sold for motorcycles and the added doodads are for theat purpose. The cable could, in fact, be used as a seatpost cable but that's not the intended use in this case. I seriously DON'T think you'll get the "Premium Pack" I used that for the sake of illustration only.
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/PublicArticleDetails@public?artid=2697&atf=products_item&pgrp=20

AGAIN a note to all NY Chain owners: If you have the NY Chain or Noose and you DON'T want the "Molly Lock" you NEED to put down that you have an EV Disc Lock and not a NY this or that.
If you say or mention that you have the NY Chain or Noose you're getting a "Molly Lock". I can't stress this enough.

DO NOT MENTION YOU HAVE THE CHAIN OR YOU WILL GET THE "MOLLY LOCK"

There's no way I can make this ANY CLEARER so if you make a mistake don't complain to me.

Those who notate that they have the EV Disc (ostensibly for a motorcycle) will (as I was told) get the NEW version of the lock (pictured below) that has the new "Euro" style key as used on the NY 3000 series locks and the new line of Kryptonite locks (second picture)
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/4247/evdisc_200.jpghttp://img61.exs.cx/img61/623/NEWKRYPTOKEYS.jpg

Please don't be petty or stupid and start requesting colors - it ain't going to happen. Be glad they're handling this as quickly as they are

I stand corrected. Looks like Kryptonite might have dropped the ball on the exchange procedure.

No kidding. I'm rooting for this Canadian guy to sue Kryptonite out of existence. Companies like this deserve it, IMHO.

No kidding. I'm rooting for this Canadian guy to sue Kryptonite out of existence. Companies like this deserve it, IMHO.
They didn't drop the ball sparky. They're replacing locks from 20 plus years ago just the same as locks purchased last friggin week, they didn't HAVE to do that at all, in fact the original plan would have limited you to TWO years. Even if they win the lawsuit you'll get SQUAT

No kidding. I'm rooting for this Canadian guy to sue Kryptonite out of existence. Companies like this deserve it, IMHO.

Go do a little research and find out who owns Kryptonite and, more specifically, the size of the corporation that owns Krptonite. Then come back and tell us how likely it is that some Toronto lawyer is going to put Kryptonite out of business. While your at it, you might postulate on what damages are recoverable considering that Kryptonite has voluntarily agreed to replace any of their tubular cylinder locks.

I got a big laugh out of the report on the Toronto lawsuit where one of the reasons the lawyer is suing is because Kryptonite is acting too slowly. Like a lawsuit will resolve the situation sooner?

Go do a little research and find out who owns Kryptonite and, more specifically, the size of the corporation that owns Krptonite. Then come back and tell us how likely it is that some Toronto lawyer is going to put Kryptonite out of business. While your at it, you might postulate on what damages are recoverable considering that Kryptonite has voluntarily agreed to replace any of their tubular cylinder locks.

I got a big laugh out of the report on the Toronto lawsuit where one of the reasons the lawyer is suing is because Kryptonite is acting too slowly. Like a lawsuit will resolve the situation sooner?
Let me save him the trouble.
Ingersoll-Rand owns Kryptonite http://www.irco.com/ They're a multi BILLION dollar company. Kryptonite is but a TINY facet of their overall business. The fact that they VOLUNTEERED to exchange the locks means that the lawsuit is a joke. (Not like you'd get anything anyway.) I LOVE the fact that the Canadians think that Kryptonite is moving too slow. I'd love to see the lawyer produce thousands (millions?) of replacement locks in as short a time as Kryptonite is putting itself up for.
Stupid Laywers

Those who notate that they have the EV Disc (ostensibly for a motorcycle) will (as I was told) get the NEW version of the lock (pictured below) that has the new "Euro" style key



Excellent! So I not only get mine and my brothers Kryptoloks exchanged, but my 6 year old EV disklok which has one overused useless key and another on it's way out?

Frigging superb. Getting another small motorbike in a months time, so this really works out.

To view "The Club" cable locks that are also openned by Bic pens, click on the link below:

http://www.theclub.com/hardware/cable.html

I have sent a couple of emails to the company (Winner Internantional) explainaning to them how I openned my Club 6 foot cable lock in 3 seconds with a Bic pen.

I have not received any word from them as of yet.

You're getting the Molly Lock, because you told them through the inclusion of the words "NY Chain" that it was for the chain and the "Molly Lock is their go to lock for this application due to the fact that they have been producing them for a while now and have a better backstock of them. The EV disc is sold seperately for MOTORCYCLES. If you had said that you had JUST the EV Disc you'd have been fine.
[/color][/b][/size]

How are you so informed?

However, some locks seem to open a lot easier than others... Would this have less to do with brand, and more to do with each individual lock?


After successfully opened few locks this week, I try my first Kryptonite last night (a EV 2000). Three pens died courageously but lock still close.
I definitely think that all this have less to do with brand, and more to do with each individual lock...and pen.
I will still use my good old U-Lock for my good old bike.

How are you so informed?
Because I ask the right questions of the right people. The information I've given is a result of those efforts.

Because I ask the right questions of the right people. The information I've given is a result of those efforts.

annoying

I LOVE the fact that the Canadians think that Kryptonite is moving too slow. I'd love to see the lawyer produce thousands (millions?) of replacement locks in as short a time as Kryptonite is putting itself up for.


Please don't lump all Canadians in with this crack pot lawyer. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be associated with every American ambulance chaser trying to get rich off other people's misery... :(

I stopped in the following stores in the New Jersey area and observed that all of them are still selling the tubular style locks.

Sports Authority
Strauss Auto
Dicks Sporting Goods
Modells

I even brought my Club Cable Lock with me and showed each store manager how I was able to get in with my trusty master key (Bic pen). They all were dumbfounded by this but none of them had the common sense to pull the locks off the shelf. In the Sports Authority store I had the manager pick one of his Kryptonite locks and I opened it with my Bic pen instantly.

Obviously the word is not getting out to some retail stores.

Click her for more info from Kryptonite:

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=urgent_update

Well, I just wanted to say that I got mine open with a basic bic pen, its not a kryptonite but a Ming Tay - 5100. Jesus. :(

-Cameron

heh, i was surfing around and found a link to this site. first off i have to say this technique has been around a long time. maybe not 'publicly' known as to say but has been around long before this post started. second a lot of people are having trouble getting the lock to open with the bic pen. try to heat up the plastic with a lighter so it is able to form easily around the cylinder as with the notches, this is not needed in all cases (obviously) but will most likely work for the failed ones. thanks so much for reading this 9** something reply.

Does any body know how far the Ming Tay ULocks are also concerned by the glitch?

I have a Ming TAY MT 3025...
i hope its safe... im still paying on the debts i made for that bike :D

I have the Masterlock Resettable Combination U-Lock w/Carrier Bracket 8280 DPRO. Unfortunately, my combination got messed up when I had to move the bike from one location to another. Can anyone help me?? PLEASE e-mail me at ebradley@dreamscape.com. I do npt always check this board. Thanks!!

So, does ANY dealer (LBS or online) have the new and improved Kryptonite locks or will they be getting them mid-October as well? The reason why I am asking is that I need my lock so I can't send it in and wait for a replacement. The LBS where I bought the lock says they will refund me the money so I could buy the new lock myself.

Go do a little research and find out who owns Kryptonite and, more specifically, the size of the corporation that owns Krptonite. Then come back and tell us how likely it is that some Toronto lawyer is going to put Kryptonite out of business. While your at it, you might postulate on what damages are recoverable considering that Kryptonite has voluntarily agreed to replace any of their tubular cylinder locks.

I think this was covered on page 1. No, it isn't likely that Kryptonite will be put out of business. But yes they deserve it. A lawsuit won't directly help the rest of us, but I think punitive lawsuits against irresponsible companies help us in the long run. Replacing the bike locks is easy and cheap, compared to the cost of the bikes that have been stolen due to Kryptonite's negligence.