General Cycling Discussion - Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

I haven't defeated my Evo 2000 Mini LS yet, but I see how it works, and I think I WILL be able to with a little effort and maybe a little lube in the cylinder...

SSenorPedro - how large a file is that movie? Perhaps hosting it someplace else and linking to it from here would be simpler than trying to post it here directly...

wow. i thought it was bs too. nope. i wasnt able to get my lock completely open (yet) but i DID get it to turn, just not all the way. that was with an evo 2000 mini. i tried on a regular kryptolock and noticed something important -- the evo minis have a slightly smaller 'center barrel' (or whatever its called). i could slide the pen shaft into it without hardly any force. the kryptoloks are a tighter fit and need some serious forcing to get it in. i dont think i pushed hard enough, but i think a simple tap from a hammer and it might even turn easier since the tight fit would make the grip stronger. anyway here are my pics so far [ps - the pic of the pen is after trying with the kryptolok and it is stretched. before i tried with the second lock it still looked normal]:

I can't open my mini evo w a bic pen, and I don't think Hoodini could have. MKRG, it will stretch to size if you force it. I bent it like an allen key and wrapped w a rag, and w glove on, but it's a waste of time. Come steal my bike it's outside all the time w mini lock.

I do remember a guy showing how he could pull the cable out of his big krypto cable lock that was supposed to be very strong (the really thick cables that were popular when ulocks were getting popped w lever). So Kyrptonite is not stronger than superman for sure.

Maybe some locks (older, loose mechanism?) maybe my lock can be "penned". I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

damnit now it is stuck and i cant get it to move either way. aaargh i think i just ****ed up my lock.

So my file is about 6 MB, if anyone wants to give me info on how to upload that to a host or something of that nature, PM me and I'll get it to ya.

Okay - dude, unaesthetic, you so need to explain things better ;)

So now that the 'proper technique' has been shown, I did it again. Two Bics. Tried to squeeze with my hand alone - no dice. Didn't go far. Someone suggested the hammer, tapped lightly and pushed it as far as it would go. It was nice and wedged in there and turned but the lock wouldn't release. I had to pull it back out with some pliers.

I guess that's the point, to make you damage your lock with plastic jammed in it? Ha Ha that's funny! Let us know what other models this "hack" works on!

i just tried it on my kryptonite evolution 2000 mini and it worked, damn, and this thing is expensive too....

I guess that's the point, to make you damage your lock with plastic jammed in it? Ha Ha that's funny! Let us know what other models this "hack" works on!

Go ahead and get cocky. Just because it doesn't work for you and/or you're too dumb to get it to work doesn't mean it's a hoax. Talk to any one of the people who just unlocked theirs or call Kryptonite yourself.

Even if the whole point of this post was to get people to "damage" their locks with a cheap piece of plastic - the fact that a hardened steel lock could get damaged by a pen is a little disturbing don't you think? But if you had read any of this you would know that it does not damage anything, it unlocks the lock in the very same manner a proper key does.

absntr- you got the lock to start turning? mine is stuck about 3mm turned towards the open position. just enough that i cant get the key in. i am trying now with a second bic (the first one seems 'worn out' now) just trying to get the lock to turn back to the fully closed position so i can use it again. sigh.

[edit - i got frustrated and gave up. my friend came over and tried at it for about ten seconds and it worked. now i feel both relief and PANIC!]

CRAP! It works on the regular size Evolution 2000. I guess I'm going back tp my cable for the time being.

This is not a hoax.

Has anyone else tried this with non-Kryptonite locks? Or is this just Krypto-specific? I can't wait to go home and try it on my cheapo Norco u-lock that I got free with a bike purchase many years ago! Sucks too cuz I've been thinking of getting a Krypto mini.

This is not a hoax.

NOPE IT AINT!!!

i think that the reason why some pens are easier than others is that bic isnt quite exact in the specifications of pen diameter (why would they be?) so you just have to find the 'right' pen out of all the standard medium round stic bics.

NOPE IT AINT!!!

i think that the reason why some pens are easier than others is that bic isnt quite exact in the specifications of pen diameter (why would they be?) so you just have to find the 'right' pen out of all the standard medium round stic bics.


True enough. I don't think that Bic is too concerned about ISO 9002 standards on their pens. One of my engineering profs used to make injection molded ball-point pen parts. He said at one point they had piles and piles of mal-fitting pieces. Some little lady would go through and try them out until a working pair was created. Sounds like tedious minimum wage labor.

Anywho, despite the sucky-ness of this whole incident, it is kind of humorous to see all of these locks with pens sticking out of them.

I have sent the video to Kryptonite and hopefully we will have a link to it up sometime soon.

-Pete

I know this sounds paranoid, but I use THREE locks on my DeRosa... I got the Evolution, the NY chain, and a Kryptonite U-lock. Plus, I lock my bike out in broad daylight, and I try to do it near an entrace of a building where they have security or a doorman. Finally, I always let the building know when I arrive and that I have my bike locked up outside their building. If they're inclined, they can take action if they see some idiot trying to pick my locks. It's not foolproof, but by the time the guy gets lock number 2 off, someone will have hopefully gone out there to shut the perp down.

Koffee

Some little lady would go through and try them out until a working pair was created. Sounds like tedious minimum wage labor.

jesus. thats horrible. and yes. this is hilarious. but sad that my oh-so-functional mini is worthy of the trash basket. do you think it really *would* be a good idea to sell the kryptonite stock about now? are they gonna give out refunds? free new locks once they (claim to) solve the problem? i wish i could see them watching the video and ****ting their pants.

absntr- you got the lock to start turning? mine is stuck about 3mm turned towards the open position. just enough that i cant get the key in. i am trying now with a second bic (the first one seems 'worn out' now) just trying to get the lock to turn back to the fully closed position so i can use it again. sigh.

No I didn't get the lock to turn.

Which prompts me to ask this - should the Bic cradle the center piece thus turning that or are the walls of it supposed to disengage the upraised outer ring? If it's supposed to hold the center steady and turn that while disengaging the outre points then my Bic is slipping on that. Maybe I'll try another Bic. I'm actually curious if I can find a pen with a different barrel that I won't have to stretch.

I have a feeling that they are going to try and downplay this a bit. Those who complain; like me, will be offered to have the lock re-cored to a smaller diameter.

The only problem with that is you have to send it to MA, then you have no lock for two weeks. It is still a kryptonite lock, just with a smaller diameter cylinder. I think that the problem is not the size, but the technology. It just so happens that someone capitalized on the coordinating size of a Bic and a Krypto. If it is smaller, then something else will work. Perhaps PaperMate pens ?

This could potentially be a very bad thing for the company, refunds for every consumer would be crippling financially. It shall be very intersting to see where this all leads.

Oh, and think of all the other things this may work on - Pop machines, motorcycle locks, pay phones, gun locks! ....

I talked to krypto.. they had received my email and basically told me the same thing they told the other few people who have called.

I apoligized to the woman I spoke to because I know she's going to have a very busy week on account of me :)

I've got a strange feeling people have known about this for a while. I recall a couple years back when kryptonite was baffled that several bikes were stolen in midtown with no signs of forced entry in the lock having been compromised.

Another note: the most basic Krytonite, the Krytolok also accepts the Bic pen. But I couldn't get that one to unlock either. I don't know at this point whether this is a good or bad thing.

Another idea occured to me, as far as deterrents go: What if you locked your bike towards the bottom, say somewhere near the bottom bracket or chainstay. The theory behind this is to keep the opening of the lock as low to the ground as possible and keep it as tight a space as possible thus keeping the opening unseen. This (all a theory at this point) would reduce the implentation of the length of the Bic shaft being poked in there if it can't fit in the vertical space and would be harder to leverage from that awkward angle.

I'll have to try this out somehow.

http://www.security.org/dial-90/sl-new.htm

I saw that a while ago... Scary.

yeah. changing the core size is total crap. someone could manufacture something to work along the same lines as this pen *very* easily for *any* size diameter they want to try. if they dont respond more seriously than that i think it is our duty to scam the **** out of their insurance policy using the bic technique. :eek:

but thinking about this some more.. this is sooo ridiculous that this even works. looking at the kryptonite keys and how they are designed to push the pins in such a precise pattern why the fucck does jamming a pen in there work in the first place!!! that is the question to be (yelling) asking when people call these bittches.
:mad:

http://www.security.org/dial-90/sl-new.htm

I saw that a while ago... Scary.

What's the relevance here? Does the site show you how to open these locks? Do they have Kryptonite stuff?

Oh, and think of all the other things this may work on - Pop machines, motorcycle locks, pay phones...

umm... thanks.

http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=296

Seen this yet?

(SSenorPedro, check your PM)

tch! why don;t they make it to where you have to have a liscense to own lock picking equipment? damn ****ers even give the criminals and nice comfortable rubber handle.. maybe we should take that handle and shove it up their (criminal and seller) arse! i was wanting to get an onguard u-lock.. but now.. now i must get the chain.. the heavy heavy chain. sigh.

I have. I read all about barrel lock picking tools last night and was not all that surprised. Mainly the reason picking locks isn't a larger problem is because it takes skill to do, and quite a few honest people can make a living legally picking locks as a locksmith.

The issue here isn't that locks can be picked - this we already know and have known since the lock was invented. The issue is that something which doesn't even resemble a finely crafted lock picking set is able to open the lock with no skill whatsoever.

http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=296

Seen this yet?

(SSenorPedro, check your PM)

What about this lock picking tool?

Furthermore, it's good that lock picking tools exist in the consumer market because that is what creates better locks. If nobody defeated locking mechanisms you would have no demand for a better system.

Even with these tools available to you it should be nearly impossible for anyone without years of experience picking locks to get into one.

This is clearly a design flaw with this specific product and should be addressed as such.

The issue is that something which doesn't even resemble a finely crafted lock picking set is able to open the lock with no skill whatsoever.

genau. or is 'jam and twist' a skill now?

genau.


Wonderful use of colloquial German by the way. My lockpicking workbench looks similar :) It was a bad night for writing instruments.

I have a crappy lock and now I can't write a complaint letter!

Wonderful use of colloquial German by the way. My lockpicking workbench looks similar :) It was a bad night for writing instruments.

What lock is that?

I have a crappy lock and now I can't write a complaint letter!

hahahah

What lock is that?

Its a kryptonite, maybe 2 years old. It was a version the labled the "MegaDefender" (hah) because if you look at the shackle it has a locking stud interface on each end. Extra "defense" padding on and around the lock with a center lock. All of which is rendered B.S. now.

The theory being that with other U-locks, the one end kind of loops in, then the other latches. Were you to cut the shackle, you could just unloop the non-latching edge and be scot-free. With this lock, cutting the shackle would not allow you to remove it, or even rotate it. You would have to make two cuts, one on each side of the shackle, then remove the piece to get the lock off.

I think they stopped making it because it seemed like overkill, it was heavy, yellow was cooler...oh and yeah, you can open it with a pen.

Do thieves go after track bikes?

thieves go after anything, especially track bikes.

There was a track bike on ebay a while ago with a mini krypto locking the rear wheel to the frame - the seller 'lost' the key.

Guess he didn't know about the pen thing.

There was a track bike on ebay a while ago with a mini krypto locking the rear wheel to the frame - the seller 'lost' the key.

Guess he didn't know about the pen thing.

did it sell?

How about organizing some community bicycle thief sting-beatings?

did it sell?

I don't remember.

How about organizing some community bicycle thief sting-beatings?

I think the bludgeoning properties of the locks would still work, so we should all go buy a second lock. Then when the bike thief comes along and whips out the pen, we whip out the second lock and crack them on the skull.

The designers of the lock mechanism might make better targets IMO...

hey everyone!

here's the amazing video that SenorPedro made - it's about 530 k in size.

krypto lock picking in AVI format (http://thirdrate.com/misc/krypto.mov)


(edited cause i replaced the original 6MB avi with a 530k quicktime movie... much easier on my server)

There was a track bike on ebay a while ago with a mini krypto locking the rear wheel to the frame - the seller 'lost' the key.

Guess he didn't know about the pen thing.

No, I didn't know about the pen thing. But took me less than a minute to chop that thing off using my Makita grinder.
It was a red Schwinn Madison track frame only. I haven't had the chance to build her up yet...

George

so now what am I going to shove in my back left pocket when I head out the front door?

tim

a handful af spahetti would probably be more useful...

it looks like onguard has a mini about the same size with a flat key. strange how attached I am to having a kryptonite on my bike. I keep thinking of everything else as a cheap rip-off.

tim

How about organizing some community bicycle thief sting-beatings?

now you're talkin'...
I can't condone the beatings of course.

I've got the lowly Krytolok, couldn't even get the barrel of the pen in there. Does it need to really be jammed in there hard enough to split the plastic?