General Cycling Discussion - Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

I'm a 56 year old woman and I commute back and forth to work -- period. Does anyone know from what juridiction the settlement order came originated?

>I can't imagine many bike thieves carrying an electric grinder or a gas torch.

Friend of mine had his bike taken, and I'm pretty sure they used power tools (angle grinder or maybe circular saw). Trouble was, he was locking it outside his house every night, for months. Obviously the thieves finally had the opportunity to go down there at 3am and take it.

Steve

I seem to be getting no response back from Kryptonite.

Does anyone know if my u-lock model is on the list of 'defective' ones?

model: 830603

Here's what I got back from Letters@irco.com

The BA keys were much wider in diameter than the ones we are aware that could be violated this way.

Kryptonite Customer Service
437 Turnpike St.
Canton, MA 02021
Tel: 781-232-1901
Toll Free (USA & Canada Only) 800-729-5625
Fax: 781-821-0780
www.kryptonitelock.com
http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.com

I found these anti-theft suggestions on the Austin Craigslist. Looks like good advice!

"I know of 5 people that have had their bikes stolen. U-Locks didn't help and neither did cable locks. Bikes were outside. I never leave a bike outside overnight. Keep them inside even if you trip over them.

Unfortunately, the best bike lock I found cost $120, which is the Kryptonite New York Lock.

...but you can make your own. Go to the hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes or Hercules (best source) on IH-35 towards Dell and get a security chain. Thick square chain that has been case hardened. Get a good 3 feet of this. Cut a mountain bike tube and slide the chain through it (tube protects your bike's paint), then buy an RV Trailer lock (as in RV bus) that has square edges and a tight enough clearance that you can't slip bolt cutter to the shaft. (see photos below)

If the chain is case hardened, then it can only be cut with a grinder or torched. Bolt cutters don't work and I can't imagine many bike thieves carrying an electric grinder or a gas torch. Square edges make the cutter slip :)

I will mention that you might have to grind the 2 edges of the chain ends so the lock can close. Thing weight a lot, but if Kryptonite can sell them for $120 and you can make one for $30, and you get more peace of mind, isn't it worth it? Heck it's cheaper than a good U-Lock and Waaay better."

http://buggytexas.com/images/lock1.jpg
http://buggytexas.com/images/lock2.jpg


Great information McDave! Thanks for the pictures, too. It's always good to have a visual reference to know what to shop for, and how to put something together. Your homemade lock/chain seems quite bullet proof, and MUCH cheaper than a Kripto NY chain.

All expensive chains made by Abus, Kryptonite etc. can be cut with bolt croppers in a matter of seconds. Cable locks are even weaker.

Watch and learn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck

Basically, your chain or U-lock's "U" must have diameter bigger than 2cm, otherways it will fit between the yaws of bolt croppers and will not survive longer than a few seconds.

thats a pretty serious bolt cutter.

All expensive chains made by Abus, Kryptonite etc. can be cut with bolt croppers in a matter of seconds. Cable locks are even weaker. . . .


Thank you for that video link. You just saved me a lot of money because I will not bother to invest in a "secure" chain and lock for my bike. I have resolved to switch to an old "beater bike" for my daily commute to work. My faith in heavy chains has just vanished in the wind.

All expensive chains made by Abus, Kryptonite etc. can be cut with bolt croppers in a matter of seconds. Cable locks are even weaker.
A few accounts were spamming those videos around here a year or so ago. They were banned and the name of the company they work for is now censored on these boards.

Here's Kryptonite's response: http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.com/2007/07/kryptonite-addresses-customer-concerns.html

And can this thread be unstuck or locked? The title hasn't been accurate for nearly four years now.

A few accounts were spamming those videos around here a year or so ago. They were banned and the name of the company they work for is now censored on these boards.

Here's Kryptonite's response: http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.com/2007/07/kryptonite-addresses-customer-concerns.html

And can this thread be unstuck or locked? The title hasn't been accurate for nearly four years now.

i read the Kryptonite reply and i'm not convinced. A friend of mine is a police officer in Rotterdam, he told me that just about all motorcycle thiefs operate by using bolt croppers to cut the chain(s) and then heave the bike in the back of a van. Whole operation is done in just a few minutes.

Who cares if they were selling their own products, it doesn't change the fact that they broke the Krypto chains with boltcutters. Which means it can be done.

Another movie from Dutch TV, this one features typical bicycle locks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yImVLW_Q0

The problem with the videos on u-tube is that the results are VERY different than the results obtained by neutral, trusted experts such as "Sold Secure" or "Cycling Plus". Second, many of the videos were traced to a company that was trying to sell its own locks by spreading false stories about locks from Kryptonite and Abus.

In the "real" world, the typical crook can not walk around with a cutting tool that is four feet long and that weighs almost twenty pounds. In Texas, and other many other places, the mere possession of a tool that can be used to commit a crime is itself a crime. So, crooks prefer tools that are small and easily concealed.

However, if someone leaves a $2,000 bike parked on a public street for eight hours a day, sooner or later, some crook is gonna do whatever it takes to get that bike. The best strategy for parking on public streets is to have a "beater" bike....a bike that rides just as nicely as a $2,000 bike, but that looks old, scratched, dented, and rusty...a bike a pawn shop would not pay $10 for.

My favorite "beater bike" was a 1984ish Trek with Reynolds 531 frame and fork. It was dented, dinged, and spray can painted a horrible green color. It looked so awful nobody wanted to even park next to it. But, it rode great...with two or three heavy locks in the rear saddle back so I could lock up both wheels and the frame downtown.

I found these anti-theft suggestions on the Austin Craigslist. Looks like good advice!

...but you can make your own. Go to the hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes or Hercules (best source) on IH-35 towards Dell and get a security chain. Thick square chain that has been case hardened. Get a good 3 feet of this. Cut a mountain bike tube and slide the chain through it (tube protects your bike's paint), then buy an RV Trailer lock (as in RV bus) that has square edges and a tight enough clearance that you can't slip bolt cutter to the shaft. (see photos below)

If the chain is case hardened, then it can only be cut with a grinder or torched. Bolt cutters don't work and I can't imagine many bike thieves carrying an electric grinder or a gas torch. Square edges make the cutter slip :)

I will mention that you might have to grind the 2 edges of the chain ends so the lock can close. Thing weight a lot, but if Kryptonite can sell them for $120 and you can make one for $30, and you get more peace of mind, isn't it worth it? Heck it's cheaper than a good U-Lock and Waaay better."

http://buggytexas.com/images/lock1.jpg
http://buggytexas.com/images/lock2.jpg


Do not see how it is waaay better than a ulock. We all can get a $25 Ulock that I would not want to test my bolt cutters out on.

Go to Lowes or Home depot.com and type in security chain see what you get. HAHa nothing!
Has anyone seen it in those stores?
And what is Hercules?

Ah got it
11.00 a foot as of today I talked with BJ at Hercules he was very nice to answer my questions, they are willing to ship it.
800-866-0639 is the phone number in, Austin Texas USA like the man said. So Texas is in the central time zone and it closes at 5pm..

As they are a wire rope company and perhaps this is not a special place to buy this type of chain. So if you want to go locally you should be able to find a wire rope company. Yet do most wire rope companies carry case hardened security chain?

Anyone willing to possibly ruin their bolt cutters trying to test this stuff?
BJ said it would probably ruin a few cutting disks from a regular grinder. I may give it a try as I think he may be speculating.


Other info
3/8 inch
Case hardend
Square
by the foot
Cut by a 220 volt very large chop saw, BJ says "if I don't take it slow it will eat up my cutting disk"
Very resistant to hand tool cutting, not so much so for other methods expecially very large 220volt chop saws.
Not sure on weight, if I buy some I will post it.
I own that exact gold padlock made by master lock and agree that it should be fairly good for this application. The lock costs $10 plus so its about $45 bucks give or take for a 3 foot chain + shipping or tax...

I do not think this DIY chain setup is compariable with the Krypto Newyork ulock or chain. More compariable to a cheaper but good Ulock, and that of course is a guess.
Lets take a look.
1 foot is too small
2 feet may be perfect for those used to small locks, so that is $22 plus $10-13 lock. $32-36+ USD
Or I can get something like the OnGuard bulldog ulock for a bit above $20 plus shipping or tax.

Does not seem so great now, a chain in my opinion is harder to carry.
But if you want a chain on the cheap, this does appear to be the way to go about it. In longer lengths it may be also a good option for bikes stored at home.

Hey there I just bought my first u-lock. It's pretty cheap bell u-lock. I'm getting a bit worried that its of low quality. I'm scared out of my mind when I read on the internet when checking up on the lock that bell stuff are easily picked. Are other locks easily picked? I live in the pacific northwest (washington state) and don't lock my bike in the same place like commuters but if I need a new u lock what is a good brand to buy a mini or reg u lock from.

How much did you pay for your Bell lock? You can get an onguard lock for a little over $20 plus shipping and it would be better.

Look around, if people in your area lock their bikes up with cable locks, and your bike is of the same quality I think you'll do okay with your Ulock.

I have and old schwinn varisty but my new dawes sst is coming in today thats why i'm worried. I payed $25 for the bell lock but I think I will shell out another $20'ish for an onguard lock then. If anything i'll have 2 u-locks for both wheels if I feel I need it. Thanks.

The problem with the videos on u-tube is that the results are VERY different than the results obtained by neutral, trusted experts such as "Sold Secure" or "Cycling Plus". Second, many of the videos were traced to a company that was trying to sell its own locks by spreading false stories about locks from Kryptonite and Abus.

In the "real" world, the typical crook can not walk around with a cutting tool that is four feet long and that weighs almost twenty pounds. In Texas, and other many other places, the mere possession of a tool that can be used to commit a crime is itself a crime. So, crooks prefer tools that are small and easily concealed.

However, if someone leaves a $2,000 bike parked on a public street for eight hours a day, sooner or later, some crook is gonna do whatever it takes to get that bike. The best strategy for parking on public streets is to have a "beater" bike....a bike that rides just as nicely as a $2,000 bike, but that looks old, scratched, dented, and rusty...a bike a pawn shop would not pay $10 for.

My favorite "beater bike" was a 1984ish Trek with Reynolds 531 frame and fork. It was dented, dinged, and spray can painted a horrible green color. It looked so awful nobody wanted to even park next to it. But, it rode great...with two or three heavy locks in the rear saddle back so I could lock up both wheels and the frame downtown.


The results are easy to reproduce, You or i could do that. In fact those ***** movies were witnessed by journos from Motorcycle News, the biggest selling motorcycle magazine in Europe.
"Sold Secure" or "Cycling Plus" are not neutral, trusted experts, "partners in industry" would be a lot more appropriate description.
The sad fact of life is that there are no materials available to produce a lock that can stand up to the force of size large bolt cutters and still be light and compact enought to carry around on a bike. Kryptonite knows it and "Sold Secure" and "Cycling Plus" know it. Now, do you really expect them to bring down the industry by labeling all locks as "cuttable in 30 seconds"?
And what is that bullcrap about "videos were traced to a company that was trying to sell its own locks by spreading false stories about locks from Kryptonite and Abus"? WTF?? The first that that woman declares in the video in question is that she is from *****!! (By the way, the 'secret' of ***** is that their locks are so huge that they don't fit between the jaws of even the largest bolt cutters, so they are only a viable option for locking your bike at home.)
Even Kryptonite don't claim that their locks can not be cut by 42inch bolt cutters, instead they make a pathetic claim that bolt cutters like that cost $600+ and are thus "too expensive to be common". What an insult to the intelligence of the consumers, jeez, the thieves only need to steal ONE bike to earn that money back!

Basically there are 2 types of "regular" bike thieves:
1. Yer average crackhead who goes for easy pickings. He doesn't care whether the bike is actually expensive or not, as long as he can sell it to some student for a few bucks, he's a happy man.
2. "Professional" thieves who cruise the city in a van, searching for bikes worth stealing. Now these guys will have the best bolt cutters and hydraulic car jacks (for some type of U-locks) in the back of the van and will take your bike if they see it (if they think its worth stealing). Basically the only thing you can do is not leave your bike in plain sight and on the same spot every single day.

The problem with those videos is the manner in which the demonstration is performed. I don't know many people who leave their bicycles locked with the chain hanging on the floor. The demonstrators used the fact that they could leave the cain on the floor, rest the bolt cutters on the ground and then use massive body weight to assist the cutting. The entire travel of the teeth are a result of a purely downward motion of the bolt cutters' arms. If the a bicycle is locked on a rack higher off the ground, where the thief would not be able to use that kind of leverage I would be fairly confident that the hardened chain locks could hold up for 30 minutes or more to that kind of testing.

The problem with those videos is the manner in which the demonstration is performed. I don't know many people who leave their bicycles locked with the chain hanging on the floor. The demonstrators used the fact that they could leave the cain on the floor, rest the bolt cutters on the ground and then use massive body weight to assist the cutting. The entire travel of the teeth are a result of a purely downward motion of the bolt cutters' arms. If the a bicycle is locked on a rack higher off the ground, where the thief would not be able to use that kind of leverage I would be fairly confident that the hardened chain locks could hold up for 30 minutes or more to that kind of testing.

You don't need to rest the jaws of the cutter on the floor to perform the cut , as long as one arm of the cutter rests on the floor. And don't forget that the cutters can be operated by two persons and you can rest them against the bicycle frame/any other surface.
No need to make excuses, professional thief will go through your $130 Kryptonite or Abus or whatever brand lock in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.

You need to rest it on something solid enough that it won't budge when you apply hundreds of pounds of pressure, so nothing slick, curved or with a small footprint. I seriously doubt you can use another person to gain that kind of leverage, because I know of no person that will stand up to a 200+lbs force without budging. The impulse of hopping on the massive cutters is what starts the cut, and that's the most important part.
Put it against a carbon frame and there will be no need to cut the lock because you can just pass the chain through the broken frame.
A blow-torch, ice-water, chisel and hammer might be faster in the real world. The chain relies on its hardness which can be undone by going through the temper process again with the aim of brittleness.

The point is not whether or not a thief can take your bike, because they can. A thief can take anything with the right preparation. The jaws of life can be purchased by a consumer, so can the saw they use to cut up armored vehicles.

I think an important thing to think about is what tool and method will be used to break the lock, because that, for me at least, will determine what lock to get and what purpose it will serve. In a populated area it's easy to cut a cable lock and make off with the bike, but not so easy to bust out an angle grinder or hydraulic jack.

I didn't identify myself to the Kryptonite guy at Interbike when I asked if they were able to turn their little issue onto the forums into a positive experience. (I heard the lock recall cost them $19 million) But I did give Joe a Kryptonite sticker, which he's sure to cherish.

dear unaesthetic,
I see you are in SF. I locked my Deore XT Fisher MTB out in front of the downtown Public Library for 20 mInutes. I came back out, no bike, no Kryptonite U-lock, no Kryptonite cable lock for the wheels, nothing. The method you mention for opening them, jamming a bic pen into the keyhole and twisting, has been around for some time, check it out on youtube! I didn't know about it until after my bike was stolen. Point: Don't trust U-locks. If a thief wants your things, they will get them! If you can bring your bike inside a building, it will be much more secure. Thieves should be punished in ways that would be against the geneva Convention!

I have a ubolt lock that was purchased for my motorcycle, the circle is twice that of a bic pen. I'm not worried about anyone that wants to show off their bic pen skills.

So this is it... the famous U-Lock thread of gargantuan proportions that had servers begging for mercy! I was determined to read every single page and grasp the full historical record of it all, but nah I gave up on page 14...

Epic! :eek:

As long as we're talking about locks on this hotly debated thread. do any of you use a stocks lock? Its a stainless steel u lock made in Canada. A mechanic I know (very legit) claims that in a shop it took him 10 minutes and two cutting wheels to get through the thing. On the street that becomes 20 minutes, which may not sound like a lot but in comparison to the 1:30 it takes a pro locksmith to cut through a krypto gray its as good as anything else available, if not better.

i've got this model
https://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1002&pid=1195

am i screwed?

i've got this model
https://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1002&pid=1195

am i screwed?This is an old issue, and it seems your lock is Kryptonite's current product line? I think they stopped manufacturing locks with Bic'able design. One way to tell is have a look at your keys: are they flat, or the hollow cylinder type? If they're flat, you're safe as far as Bic attacks go.

--J

have a look at your keys: are they flat, or the hollow cylinder type? If they're flat, you're safe as far as Bic attacks go.

flat. good to go! thanks for the 'short answer' :)

I'm in the market for a lock for a new bike. Glad I read this thread.

Question is: what do you use to lock up the bike? Cable and serious padlock? I'd like a combi so I can't lose the key.

Ideas? Suggestions?

I'm in the market for a lock for a new bike. Glad I read this thread.

Question is: what do you use to lock up the bike? Cable and serious padlock? I'd like a combi so I can't lose the key.

Ideas? Suggestions?

There's a recent long thread about this in the commuting section:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=520597

What about combo locks? (obviously the pen thing won't work, but what about other methods?)

so, i just thought i would add to this thread the response i just got from kryptonite
in regards to their recall as it currently stands....

mon, 07/19/2010....

Thank you for contacting Kryptonite. For over 3 years, Kryptonite replaced hundreds of thousands of tubular keyed locks for our distributors, dealers and consumers worldwide. However the Lock Exchange Program concluded at the end of September 2007 and we are not taking any new registrations or exchanges.

You may send the lock and key into us under our $20 rekey service and we would replace it for you with the current equivalent. Payment can be made by credit card (number and expiration date), money order or check (must be drawn on US Bank in US Dollars and made out to Kryptonite).

Kryptonite
437 Turnpike St
Canton, MA 02021
Attn: rekey


Regards,
Donna
Customer Service Representative
Kryptonite
Ingersoll Rand
Residential Solutions
437 Turnpike St
Canton, MA 02021

Dang I just bought a Kryptonite ulock and cable at a close-out for $16.. uses the round style key. Now I know why. I'll have to try the pen trick on it... dang thought I was getting a good deal.

Dang I just bought a Kryptonite ulock and cable at a close-out for $16.. uses the round style key. Now I know why. I'll have to try the pen trick on it... dang thought I was getting a good deal.

Please post the name of the vendor...

Dang I just bought a Kryptonite ulock and cable at a close-out for $16.. uses the round style key. Now I know why. I'll have to try the pen trick on it... dang thought I was getting a good deal.
I have three Kryptonite locks with round keys. All of them are over 20 years old, none of them appear to be susceptible to the "pen trick." Try before you worry too much.

go 2 youtube and type in bike lock pick....do i need 2 say more??

First, theres the Bic Pen....now, theres the expanding foam. I can't confirm if it works, but a friends teen age kid swears by it. It does make you think tho. If I find any foam residue on any of my locks, I'm going to kick that little s**ts ass!

Please post the name of the vendor...

Bought them at a close-out place in Alma, AR. A-Z tools I don't fault them though.


I have three Kryptonite locks with round keys. All of them are over 20 years old, none of them appear to be susceptible to the "pen trick." Try before you worry too much.

Actually I don't see how it would work on my key is has a outer nub. It's the Kyrpolok series. I'm not to worried I mostly ride in the KCK-KCMO areas most thieves around here wouldn't be smart enough to figure it out.

Actually I don't see how it would work on my key is has a outer nub. It's the Kyrpolok series. I'm not to worried I mostly ride in the KCK-KCMO areas most thieves around here wouldn't be smart enough to figure it out.

actually they all have that outer nub but it does not have an associated pin with it...
before i knew about this i had found my locks with the inner part turned halfway where someone had tried
the pen trick on it but broke the pen. I filed my outer-nub off to get the key to go in so that I could
unlock it and it works just the same. the inner nub does not have a pin either but it is there to actually
grab the center to turn it.

my locks are about 10 and 15 years old... im pretty sure if a pen fits in there it will do it..... it was not
easy the first go-round, but its painfully easy once you get to tapped back in there.

i think if there was a way to stiffen the turning part.... it would make it much more difficult.

U locks are for slugging it out with tweakers and angry cagers
bring your bike into work/school/home with you if you can do so!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bike+lock+pick&aq=f
watch and learn kiddies