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Original Post:
This is the most absurd thing I've seen in a very long time.
As you guys might remember, I recently had the nicest set of wheels I've ever had stolen from me. Today I was hanging out with a friend and we got to talking about that - he said his friend showed him just recently how to open a U-Lock with a ball point pen.
Of course I didn't believe it. That is until just thirty seconds ago when I opened my own Kryptonite Evolution 2000 with a bic ball point pen!
This has to be the most absurd thing I've ever seen. Try it. Take the end off the pen, jam it in the lock, wiggle around and twist.
Please tell everyone you know and make sure they do something about it right away. The theives probably already know this trick but from what I've heard it's fairly new. I figure the information is going to get out anyway and so it's better to let the honest people know first and hope this problem gets fixed.
You've got to be kidding me - most people consider these the standard for locking up. And it's a BALL POINT PEN that can break them open!? WTF. I will be on the phone with Kryptonite locks first thing tomorrow morning.asdf
The BikeForums Team
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This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
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Movie #3: http://www.bikeforums.net/video/3.mov - 251KB
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Movie #6: http://www.bikeforums.net/video/7.wmv - 649KB
Spread the word, link to BikeForums.net! http://www.bikeforums.net
Please note, testing this on your own lock may break or jam your lock! Please read the whole thread, and only try this on your lock if you can afford to replace it!
New: Canton, MA September 22, 2004
KRYPTONITE OFFERS FREE PRODUCT EXCHANGES TO ALL CURRENT OWNERS OF KRYPTONITE TUBULAR CYLINDER LOCKS
If you currently own a Kryptonite tubular cylinder lock and are concerned about the security of this lock, Kryptonite will exchange this lock for you with a comparable non-tubular cylinder lock.
To participate in the exchange program, please send an email to kryptonite@irco.com
You will receive an auto response asking you for information including your name, address and lock type. It will also give you information on exchanging your lock. Kryptonite will pay the postage for all exchanges. Please note that this email address sends an auto response – do not send questions to this email address as it is not monitored. If you have questions, please send an email to locktalk@irco.com
We expect locks to begin shipping in mid-October.
</ edit >
JWalton215
This is a krypto with the circular-type key? Either way that is ****ed.
dirtydan
dam, thats crazy shyte.
absntr
How did you do this? I just tried it - all I did was mess up a ball point.
unaesthetic
The model I did it with was a 2000 Evolution Mini.
You take the end cap off, push it into the lock just as you would a key, turn.
I can't verify or deny that this works with other models because I haven't had the chance to try.
I do think however that this is what everyone who is serious about keeping their bikes safe usually use - the Krypto site gives this lock a 4 1/2 star (out of 5) K-Tough rating. It is supposed to be virtually unbreakable.
unaesthetic
This is a krypto with the circular-type key? Either way that is ****ed.
Yes, circular key - the diameter of the pen has to match that of your key.
sora8speed
hmmm....i dunno which kryptonite model I have, but the end of the standard bic pen (taking the end off is a real pain) did fit the circular key lock. I jammed it in, wiggled it around, and turned, but nothing happened. Maybe I didnt wiggle it around properly, but I couldnt get it to open....
unaesthetic
Sponsored link:
Kryptonite Security
Great deals on Kryptonite security right now at BikeBandit.com!
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holy freaking awesome. hahahah!
absntr
I have the same lock. I went through 8 different pens. Two Bics. I couldn't get a single one inside the slim circle. From what I can tell, four of the 7 points need to be depressed before you can turn the lock - from your explanation, it seems that you were able to turn the nib through all 7 points one after the other, however, it seems that as soon as you pass one, it comes right back up and thus one of the points doesn't pass the test - thereby unlocking fails. I'm pretty concerned but I can't get it to open, even with two Bics.
collegeskier
This is along the same theory as picking a standard lock. With the right equipment you have no idea how easy it is to open up a standard house lock. My friends had a lock pick kit and you could pop open a keyed master lock in a minute. Sure you house has 7 or so cylinders but still. The key to the whole thing is to twist the lock a little then to start setting the heights of each pin. I woudl actually think you would need two pens to do it or do put your fingers on part or something. Lock picking not as easy as TV not as hard as you would hope.
unaesthetic
I don't exactly know why this works, and I've got a little lock picking knowledge. I can't reproduce it because I can't get the barrel back to the original position. It's essentially locked open for the time being.
All I can say is that it worked, and very easily - just as the person who told me about it described. I bet in 24 hours or so you'll see pleanty of posts here from people who can verify this.
unaesthetic
Update.
I filed the outer nub off of one of my keys (so as to allow entry into the keyhole even if the barrel is in the open position), and was able to re-lock the lock. It seems as though you can't re-lock it with the pen unless you don't turn the barrel the whole 180 degrees, but you can infact get the U out of the locking mechanism and re-lock it using only a pen if you are careful.
I recall seeing a few posts recently (I don't recall if they were on bikeforums.net or not) - about people who "thought they locked their bike" only to find the bike gone and the lock mysteriously still on the pole. A friend of mine just told me a similar story, and I think I know why this is happening now.
catatonic
hmm, looks like I gotta replace all my locks now. So are there any other good lock makers around? Preferably ones that use car-key style locks?
This sucks, I got my talus outside with two krypto u-bolts....looks like I have to find a place for it inside tonight.
roadfix
Hell.......I'm dumpin' all my Kryptonite stock first thing tomorrow morning! ;)
qmsdc15
Is anybody else able to do this or heard of this?
goddamngoddamn
the kryptonite NY ulocks have a different locking mechanism, a key more like a car key, but at this point who wants to buy another goddamn kryptonite since thats what we are all screwed with right now...
maybe if enough of us complain theyd set up an exchange program so we can switch for locks with a different kind of key?
can someone post the 800# for kryptonite?
dirtydan
1-800-SAY-LOCK (USA)
781-828-6655 (outside USA)
437 Turnpike Street
Canton, MA 02021, US
pitboss
Kryptonite
1-800-SAY-LOCK (USA)
781-828-6655 (outside USA)
437 Turnpike Street
Canton, MA 02021, USA
BlastRadius
Haha, the pen is mightier than the saw! I'll have to try it on my Evo 2000 mini.
46x17
Tried, tried, tried, failed. Could not open lock and have the one described. will try more later on.
qmsdc15
Yeah, I can't do it, but I struggle to open even w the key sometimes! Is it real? I don't want to call anyone a liar, but I've heard of internet hoax...
spectreman
wahhhhhhh.......
this is crazy!
it's a little difficult to get the end of the pen jammed over the center metal piece of the lock, but after you do, yer there - ....it took me about 30 seconds.....
ahhhhh - i was paranoid before, now i'm gonna lose my mind.
anyway - thanks for the warning.
s.
brunning
i'm at work now, but has anyone tried this with a New York 3000 u-lock or any of the New York chain locks?
unaesthetic
wahhhhhhh.......
this is crazy!
it's a little difficult to get the end of the pen jammed over the center metal piece of the lock, but after you do, yer there - ....it took me about 30 seconds.....
ahhhhh - i was paranoid before, now i'm gonna lose my mind.
anyway - thanks for the warning.
s.
I'm curious - what model lock do you have? I'm trying to see which locks are vunerable to this hack. I don't know if some of them aren't or people just aren't doing it right.
I'm probably going to make a small video later on so people take this seriously.
spectreman
i have the kyptonite mini (3" X 5").....
i still can't believe this.
unaesthetic
2000 Evolution, or regular?
progre-ss
Wow! Thanks for the info. I'm gonna go out right now and try this on all the bikes in the bike rack;) And when you say BIC pen, you mean those little clear plastic ones that are good for spit balls?
unaesthetic
Wow! Thanks for the info. I'm gonna go out right now and try this on all the bikes in the bike rack;) And when you say BIC pen, you mean those little clear plastic ones that are good for spit balls?
And I trust that you will use this information for good, not evil! At first this was my biggest concern - but after thinking about it, theives WILL share this information and it will become a problem, so it's better that everyone knows before it's too late. It's obvious ignoring this problem won't make it go away.
absntr
I tried two of those pens and kept trying this morning. I do so, because I want to know if this is possible on all locks or if there are a few fault ones, or whatever. Still no dice. Firstly, I can't even get that nib in the spaces, that nib is too fat - at least the medium is, are you using fine or extra fine or something?
I tried a dried up 0.3 technical drawing pen and a 0.5 after that - both don't work. Got one of the smaller extensions on my Gerber multi-tool out that fit inside and that didn't work either.
Oh, and all mini u-locks are the Evolution 2000. They don't make another kind, at least not in the past few years and as far as I know...
misterherman
what about the NY 3000?
http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photos/medium/KR-NY3.gif
it doesnt look as "mini" but it doesnt use the round key.
46x17
Okay, pen body count is increasing rapidly. Lock is laughing at me louder every minute. For those of you that were successfull. Let me know what pen model you are using, so I can stop sacrificing civilians.
unaesthetic
Ok - I'm not sure some of you actually get what I'm saying - you use the outer plastic part of the pen, not the insides. You will notice (if you get the right size pen) that it fits into the lock just as your key would, but nice and snug, which allows you to turn it.
As long as the pen you are using fits snugly over that center piece, you should be able to do it.
And no - any non barrel type of key such as the one you posted above would not be vunerable to this kind of attack... not that it can't be picked, just not with a pen as far as I know.
legalize_it
i cant get mine open, maybe i have a good key shape....its the standard U lock, not mini or anything like that. if you're all nervous about you locks now, i know that krypto makes a combo lock also.
i was examining the pattern of my key, i have some very tall and very short notches. this probably makes using a bic pen to pick it difficult. for those of you who got your lock open with a pen, examine your key, i expect that all the notches are at roughly the same level.
OneTinSloth
Oh, and all mini u-locks are the Evolution 2000. They don't make another kind, at least not in the past few years and as far as I know...
kryptonite also makes the "plus" series U-locks. same design as the mini and the mini LS, but less expensive and seemingly thicker metal.
there's a staff meeting at my shop today, and i'll try this out during it. if i can get it, i'll be sure to let everyone know.
thanks for thie info.
unaesthetic
legalize it:
Yes, I suspected the same thing, and there are about 4 or so pins with very similar heights on my key - but there are three notches with alternating heights of what look to be the extreme reaches of the pins. That said, the overall 'reach' on the pins for the Evolution 2k locks seems to be extremely short.. probably 1/8th of an inch, which I presume has a lot to do with the problem.
Try rapidly shaking it as you turn it if it's not working for you - there are devices locksmiths use which just have a pin that violently vibrates as you apply torsional force. This method eventually shakes the pins into a configuration similar to the key and it pops open - the shorter the reach on the pins, the better this method works.
I would also advise against combo locks - the internals in these makes lock picking a lot easier because they essentially have a the lock and the key already to work with.
SSenorPedro
Ok, so at first I was skeptical. I had a late night last night and came across this post, I thought it might be a hoax, tried a few pens, then went to bed.
This morning, seeing more replies, I was determined to get on top of this. First of all, the brand of pen is the most defining factor. It must be a Bic pen, as they have the correct internal diameter to fit the key cylinder of the Kryptonite lock.
Second, it doesn't take much at all. It would in fact look very much like you were unlocking the bike as if it were yours. Not that people really do anything if they see someone stealing your bike anyway.
Third, I am pissed. The Kryptonite locks were the only thing that gave me a sense of security for my bikes. Now all of the technology that went into the "unbreakable" portions has been made pointless by the simple ball point pen.
I have included some pictures, showing how the cylinder is left in a half-locked position as a previous poster described.
I spose we could all start making some money on the kryptonite $3000 coverage by committing a little friendly insurance fraud ;)
dirtydan
unaesthetic, did you call Krytonite?
Curious to what they say.
unaesthetic
Ok, so at first I was skeptical. I had a late night last night and came across this post, I thought it might be a hoax, tried a few pens, then went to bed.
This morning, seeing more replies, I was determined to get on top of this. First of all, the brand of pen is the most defining factor. It must be a Bic pen, as they have the correct internal diameter to fit the key cylinder of the Kryptonite lock.
Second, it doesn't take much at all. It would in fact look very much like you were unlocking the bike as if it were yours. Not that people really do anything if they see someone stealing your bike anyway.
Third, I am pissed. The Kryptonite locks were the only thing that gave me a sense of security for my bikes. Now all of the technology that went into the "unbreakable" portions has been made pointless by the simple ball point pen.
I have included some pictures, showing how the cylinder is left in a half-locked position as a previous poster described.
I spose we could all start making some money on the kryptonite $3000 coverage by committing a little friendly insurance fraud ;)
Thank you! See - I am to be taken seriously ;)
And yes, I felt that same feeling when I opened mine. The krypto is one of only two locks I recommend people buying - the other is the krypto nyc chain. I spend a lot of money on locks because I feel it's a worthwhile investment. You know the rest.
Also, I filed the outer flange off of one of my keys which allows you to insert the key in the 'open' position your lock is now probably stuck in (as I see in the picture) - this will allow you to close it. Uh.. not that you'd want to use it for anything more than a paperweight...
unaesthetic
unaesthetic, did you call Krytonite?
Curious to what they say.
No, but I wrote them a hell of an email right before I went public with this information.
I'm giving them until noon to reply and then I'm calling them.
Anyone else called them yet?
unaesthetic
I spose we could all start making some money on the kryptonite $3000 coverage by committing a little friendly insurance fraud ;)
Believe me - I had a pretty good mind to keep my mouth shut about this for that exact reason.. haha
Then the angel on my other shoulder chimed in and reminded me to be good.
Scary thing is though I bet the insurance would not cover this - there's absolutly no proof anything was broken since this method works just like a key. I think they require you to send them the broken lock as proof.
spectreman
2000 Evolution, or regular?
regular
SSenorPedro
Alright, so I just got off the phone with Kryptonite. 1-800-729-5625, then press 3 for customer service. They say they heard about this method last week, but have been unable to get it to work in the office.
I stressed that it was imperative to use a Bic pen and that I was rather disconcerted with the whole issue.
The name of the person I spoke with was Lee, she was rather helpful and suggested that I send my lock along with the pen that I used to open it to their offices. The proposed solution is to have them re-key the lock with a smaller diameter key cylinder.
I suggest that everyone here call them up and discuss the problem with them. This needs to be remedied, and before any more unsuspecting persons get hit.
Let 'em know how you feel, and lets also look at some good alternatives guys.
Sure glad I didn't buy that NY chain last week. This Sucks!
MKRG
Is it just the minis? I have an Evo2000 regular size and the bic doesn't seem to fit in the keyhole
brokenrobot
I, too, just called Kryptonite, and I too spoke to Lee. She's meeting with her supervisor this afternoon to find a solution, and will be in contact with me tomorrow at the latest... I'll post an update as soon as I hear back.
SSenorPedro
Anybody know how to post a movie the board? I just shot myself unlocking mine in about 12 seconds with the pen. I think it may be cheaper than sending them my lock ;)
MKRG
OK I got the pen in but it's not defeating the lock.
46x17
Still can't open my evolution 2000 mini lock. Using the right pen too. Wondering if this affects all locks of this kind.
unaesthetic
SSenorPedro - email me the video and I can upload it to a server with a lot of bandwidth. I was going to do this myself tonight but I'm at work all day.
brokenrobot
I haven't defeated my Evo 2000 Mini LS yet, but I see how it works, and I think I WILL be able to with a little effort and maybe a little lube in the cylinder...
SSenorPedro - how large a file is that movie? Perhaps hosting it someplace else and linking to it from here would be simpler than trying to post it here directly...