Living Car Free - On becoming a Luddite

I'm not sure if I can blame this on the bicycle, but since adopting it as my primary means of transportation, I've become a real fan of simple, effective technology that isn't constantly bloating itself with new features.

In a way, this is pretty sad for a computer programmer who made a career learning the latest programming language. However...

Symptoms:

I can't bring myself to spend $200 on an electronic book reader, because books are pretty elegant and there is no clear standard for a reader. (Not to mention the environmental damage of zillions of out-moded readers in the landfill.)
I have downgraded from using a laptop with the newest Windows OS to a desktop with a Linux OS.
Found a great deal on a "by-the-minute" cell phone plan, but am realizing I hardly ever use the phone. Meanwhile, seem to have no use for all the bells and whistles on modern phones.... and I despise ring tones.
Have a pretty nifty Tiagra brifter on one bike, but found the simple downtube friction shifters on my newest acquisition to be pretty reasonable too.


I'm not trying to make a virtue of becoming a Luddite, just stating a fact.

Do you have Luddite tendencies too?

Linux as a downgrade? I'm sorry, but you're wrong. ;) A sidegrade at the very least, especially when you can keep 'obsolete' computers running more than happily with it.
I'm with you on some of the luddite side though, none of my computers are top of the line, if I have old tech that does the job I don't buy new tech, and sometimes I really miss my old green screen nokia with 8 days of battery life.

I'm not sure if I can blame this on the bicycle, but since adopting it as my primary means of transportation, I've become a real fan of simple, effective technology that isn't constantly bloating itself with new features...

I'm not trying to make a virtue of becoming a Luddite, just stating a fact.

I think you're just practical, and you choose your battles.

Technology can bring us wonderful things, but unfortunately it's wrapped in commercialism/consumerism.

The older I get, the more I appreciate well-built things. Especially things that are meant to be repaired, not thrown out.

I usually prefer simple over complicated. Mind you, my Rohloff is rather complex - but it can be repaired and has a long(ish) life span.

Sounds like we are trying to redefine the word. Can one be a luddite and express it on a computer? Does it matter if it is the newest computer as long as it uses the newest web services? Advanced technology can be simple and easy to use in fact it is most often simpler and easier to use than old technology. Can you be a luddite when you decide to fly in a jet plane rather than ride a train accross country? Can you even be a luddite wearing machine made cloths?

I guess you can have luddite leanings.

I like the idea of Linux too. I'm slowly trying to get it working on my HP bottom of the line desktop. The parts of it that do work are running faster than on my Mac. Once I get it all figured out I'll be fine. I've already decided that whenever I upgrade computers it will be with a used model not a new one. That's not quite being a Luddite but it is sort of like moving forward at a slower pace.

I'm also interested in having an e-reader. I just won't get one until there is some type of uniform standard that allows me to keep books and buy books from different sources. I'd rather save trees from the landfill. One other snag for me getting an e-reader now is that I can buy used books and even some new books cheaper in paper.

I like the idea of cell phones but the radiation danger and electromagnetic pollution really concern me. It has already been proven that the radiation damages the blood brain barrier. Even with digital signals the modulation causes damage to human cells and nerves.

I suppose I'm not a Luddite but I'm not racing to have the latest technology either. I like sticking with what works and is a proven product. I'm planning to buy my first MP3 player so I can use it for music instead of constantly having my computer running to play streaming music. The laptop uses just sixty-five watts. To use it the modem needs to be running too which uses one-hundred watts. The higher tech MP3 player and speakers will use much less power and that will be a better thing for the environment over the long haul than buying an MP3 player.

Linux OS IS NOT a step backwards.

I don't consider myself a Luddite, but I do think long and hard before buying anything and prefer the KISS principle. As far as E-readers, I can see the attraction to them. I can take an entire book shelf worth of books with me and don't have to make a 20 mile trek to the library every other week. FWIW try MobiPocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/HomePage/default.asp?Language=EN) reader. I use it on my netbook and Blackberry to download and read books. At home it is a good old fashioned book. Our home phone is a hang on the wall hooked up to the hard line phone.

Nothing wrong with living a simpler life. I think many people would benefit from it.

Aaron :)

In a way, this is pretty sad for a computer programmer who made a career learning the latest programming language. However...

Sad, maybe, but not unexpected. The reason I have a garden is that I make computer software, which is dead and anesthetic, leaving me with a need to surround myself with living things. I think computers have a way of doing that to people who pay attention. The virtual world, including the intertubes, is an imaginary playground, but some of us still need to feel the warmth of the sun, the wind in our hair, and so on. It's a little bit like the difference between a bike on a trainer and a bike in motion out in the world.

An aside, have you noticed the drive in software to simply your code? My last job would freak out if the cyclomatic complexity in a solution was more than about 100, because they didn't want to rely on anything so complex ... ignoring just how complex a task it is to calculate the cyclomatic complexity of a code base.


Can you be a luddite when you decide to fly in a jet plane rather than ride a train accross country?

Yes, but you can't be a cultural relativist and fly on a plane ... unless you're also a hypocrite.

Sad, maybe, but not unexpected. The reason I have a garden is that I make computer software, which is dead and anesthetic, leaving me with a need to surround myself with living things. I think computers have a way of doing that to people who pay attention. The virtual world, including the intertubes, is an imaginary playground, but some of us still need to feel the warmth of the sun, the wind in our hair, and so on. It's a little bit like the difference between a bike on a trainer and a bike in motion out in the world.

Yes, but you can't be a cultural relativist and fly on a plane ... unless you're also a hypocrite.

I used to feel the same way about sailing as you do about gardening. It was my chance to get out and do something that basically required the same skill levels as it did 2500 years ago. For the time I was on the water it was like I have been transported to a different world.

But there were some differneces that crept in. I had an small motor for when the wind failed. After a while it was so much easier to chart my course with a Loran and then a GPS then a Sextant. And before I gave it up I had finally purchased a tillermaster so I could auto pilot. Some advances are simply nice to have.

The floating bridge seems like a nice advance if you live in Bellevue and have to get to Seattle.

What you're exploring are methods of living simply and authentically and that reflects your spirit and not the market. Luddites are afraid of adopting new technology. Technology is merely a convenience when it works. Often it is novelty that brings increased cost and maintenance. I just biked a spare computer to a recycled-building materials store. I didn't have a cell phone for a long time. I don't have cable service. I don't have an e-reader. I tend to not subscribe to things I don't have time for. Haven't upgraded to a digital receiver; I've given up Netflix--I don't even rent movies anymore. So many of these things represent an obligation to use them when really, what I need is to get plenty of sleep and spend time with the kids--not goofing on the computer or watching the tube. I do listen to podcasts, but I don't own any Apple products--only cheap mp3 players.

My grandson asked me if I'm anti-technology, which i thought was a pretty sophisticated question for an 11 year-old. He said I don't have a computer, cable TV, video game system or even a car, so it seemed like I was against those kinds of things. I told him I wasn't so much anti-technology, but that I didn't think having all that stuff would necessarily make me happier. I also told him that my childhood in the 1960s was just as happy as his childhood, even though I only had 5 channels on a black and white TV, and a deck of cards instead of a game system. I also told him that he has fun when he visits me at my non-tech house, so he should be careful or he might turn anti-technology too!

Or find a laptop and install Linux.

Laptops use less electricity.

My old Desktop AND Monitor = 350 watts
New(er) laptop = 35 watts

Or find a laptop and install Linux.

Laptops use less electricity.

My old Desktop AND Monitor = 350 watts
New(er) laptop = 35 watts

True that most laptops use less electricity. However, they are nearly un-upgradeable and often when the display goes, you end up pitching the whole thing out. So it's a question of landfill space vs grid usage.

You can usually upgrade a desktop, replacing bits and pieces. Also, I don't think most older laptops use anywhere near as little as 35 watts. In the future we might start seeing more solid state hard drives and such... which will use even less electricity. ("Hooray for technology", says the Luddite in a rare moment of relapse.)

I have discovered one feature on the desktop that is a great electricity saver. It's the "Turn the power when you are finished" :)

True that most laptops use less electricity. However, they are nearly un-upgradeable and often when the display goes, you end up pitching the whole thing out. So it's a question of landfill space vs grid usage.

You can usually upgrade a desktop, replacing bits and pieces. Also, I don't think most older laptops use anywhere near as little as 35 watts. In the future we might start seeing more solid state hard drives and such... which will use even less electricity. ("Hooray for technology", says the Luddite in a rare moment of relapse.)

I have discovered one feature on the desktop that is a great electricity saver. It's the "Turn the power when you are finished" :)

You can also do a lot of things on a smart phone that you used to do with a computer. Surf the WEB, online banking, I haven't written a check in over a year. Email, texting and tweeting if you so choose. I don't think it uses close to 35 watts. But you do end up upgrading every two to three years.

I'm a total technophile. Every day I'm grateful for the advances in technology that allow me to do things more easily and simply -- online banking, online shopping, a web browser in my pocket, a whole library in one small device so my house isn't cluttered with physical books, multifocal contact lenses that let me go without reading glasses, the surgical technology that meant I wasn't permanently crippled when I shattered my shoulder, etc.

But I can't buy into the consumer mentality. It distresses me to see wasteful practices, excess packaging, throwaway products, buying new things simply for the sake of buying them. I don't think consumption and technology are necessarily in lockstep.

I'm a total technophile. Every day I'm grateful for the advances in technology that allow me to do things more easily and simply -- online banking, online shopping, a web browser in my pocket, a whole library in one small device so my house isn't cluttered with physical books, multifocal contact lenses that let me go without reading glasses, the surgical technology that meant I wasn't permanently crippled when I shattered my shoulder, etc.

But I can't buy into the consumer mentality. It distresses me to see wasteful practices, excess packaging, throwaway products, buying new things simply for the sake of buying them. I don't think consumption and technology are necessarily in lockstep.

I agree with you that technology has a magical appeal. What I don't like about it is the excess packaging and the throwaway devices. We should develop computing devices that we return to the manufacturer for rebuilding. I don't know if this could easily be done, but if we don't we'll one day be drowning in a sea of dead cell phones.

Luckily, this isn't the case with bicycles. You can pick up a good light frame the the 1980s, add a few parts and be on your way.

True that most laptops use less electricity. However, they are nearly un-upgradeable and often when the display goes, you end up pitching the whole thing out. So it's a question of landfill space vs grid usage.

You can usually upgrade a desktop, replacing bits and pieces. Also, I don't think most older laptops use anywhere near as little as 35 watts. In the future we might start seeing more solid state hard drives and such... which will use even less electricity. ("Hooray for technology", says the Luddite in a rare moment of relapse.)

I have discovered one feature on the desktop that is a great electricity saver. It's the "Turn the power when you are finished" :)


I guess I'm used to upgrading my laptop. I've upgraded the memory (4GB) the HD (500GB) and the CPU (2.6ghz dual core bells and whistles and all)
and none of it ended up in a land fill.

And the screens aren't that hard to replace although it's usually the inverter/LED assembly. And that costs $7.

SSD's don't really save THAT much power. Only about 5 watts from what I've seen. They are really better for servers due the SSD reliability.

I guess I'm used to upgrading my laptop. I've upgraded the memory (4GB) the HD (500GB) and the CPU (2.6ghz dual core bells and whistles and all)
and none of it ended up in a land fill.

And the screens aren't that hard to replace although it's usually the inverter/LED assembly. And that costs $7.

SSD's don't really save THAT much power. Only about 5 watts from what I've seen. They are really better for servers due the SSD reliability.

Not all laptops are upgradable. I have a couple still floating around from the late 1990's. They are maxed out on RAM(64mb) and processor speeds(333mhz) are what they are. My favorite one is a 1999 Compaq Pressario 1200XL. It has been converted to Linux OS and is still rocking along. The weak link on those is the cable that runs to the screen. They used to be a $7 part, but are NLA. I have one spare, when it is gone it is gone. I had a sister computer to that one that the motherboard finally went Tango Uniform so that became the spare parts computer. I mainly use it in my shop as an access point for various shop manuals on tractors and trucks. I do have a wi-fi card (PCMIA) in it and it will still browse the net.

Aaron :)

I'm not sure if I can blame this on the bicycle, but since adopting it as my primary means of transportation, I've become a real fan of simple, effective technology that isn't constantly bloating itself with new features.

In a way, this is pretty sad for a computer programmer who made a career learning the latest programming language. However...

Symptoms:


I can't bring myself to spend $200 on an electronic book reader, because books are pretty elegant and there is no clear standard for a reader. (Not to mention the environmental damage of zillions of out-moded readers in the landfill.)
I have downgraded from using a laptop with the newest Windows OS to a desktop with a Linux OS.
Found a great deal on a "by-the-minute" cell phone plan, but am realizing I hardly ever use the phone. Meanwhile, seem to have no use for all the bells and whistles on modern phones.... and I despise ring tones.
Have a pretty nifty Tiagra brifter on one bike, but found the simple downtube friction shifters on my newest acquisition to be pretty reasonable too.



I'm not trying to make a virtue of becoming a Luddite, just stating a fact.

Do you have Luddite tendencies too?

I'll go open a window because I expect all future posts from you to arrive by carrier pigeon. :D

I'm also interested in having an e-reader. I just won't get one until there is some type of uniform standard that allows me to keep books and buy books from different sources. I'd rather save trees from the landfill. One other snag for me getting an e-reader now is that I can buy used books and even some new books cheaper in paper.

I'm planning to buy my first MP3 player so I can use it for music instead of constantly having my computer running to play streaming music. The laptop uses just sixty-five watts. To use it the modem needs to be running too which uses one-hundred watts. The higher tech MP3 player and speakers will use much less power and that will be a better thing for the environment over the long haul than buying an MP3 player.
I agree with you that purchasing newer products for their higher efficiency and ease of storage is wise.

I understand where you're coming from... I have to admit, cultures like the Ahmish have a certain appeal to them. There's an honest simplicity about it that really gets me.

However, I too am a computer professional. I run Linux on most of my machines, but they are all back at least 2 generations of hardware. I don't own a cell phone. I rarely watch cable TV, but I use computers and technology extensively when I play music. It allows me a level of creativity that isn't possible without (well, not cheaply, anyway).

There are some things about technology I embrace... cell phones aren't one of them. I appreciate the advances in computer technology in cars, but at the same time, I don't want one with everything computerized. Just the engine.

I would say you're more into living simply, than shunning technology.

I'll go open a window because I expect all future posts from you to arrive by carrier pigeon. :D

And I bet you're the type of person who survives from his backyard garden... :)

Unlike gerv and the poster above I like my cell phone. I can stay in contact by Text or E-mail with friends all over the world. I don't have to drive, ride or walk to the bank to make a deposit of transfer. I don't have to write checks or buy stamps. I can ask directions to any place and even get reccommendations on places to eat. I can even check in on this forum if I want. I can watch a video or read a book while waiting in a public building. You can even get news the day before the paper does. It makes Dick Tracy's wrist radio seem old tech.

And I bet you're the type of person who survives from his backyard garden... :)

Not 100% self sufficient, but I do what I can :thumb:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/Veggie%20garden/DSC00683.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/Veggie%20garden/DSC00694.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/Veggie%20garden/DSC00671.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/DSC00530.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/DSC00531.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/Veggie%20garden/DSC00686.jpg

Nice spread! Your corn's tasseling kinda short, but looks like you'll get a few ears per stalk.

A lot of home farmers around here have problems raising chickens, neighbors complaining and such.

A city up north of here, Bremerton, outlaws chickens. Hopefully not for much longer, though. (http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/kitsap/pat/news/87000122.html)

I would consider linux a good option for older computers. I have a nice old Dell dimension 4100 (P3 1ghz, 512mb pc133, 40gb eide 7200, r9800pro) that I picked up for $15 and it is just fine for most web browsing and to view all but the most demanding videos. It runs the latest ubuntu just fine and boots in about the same time as xp pro would. Though that said I do have a i5 quad core system with windows 7 and like it as well.

Nice spread! Your corn's tasseling kinda short, but looks like you'll get a few ears per stalk.

A lot of home farmers around here have problems raising chickens, neighbors complaining and such.

A city up north of here, Bremerton, outlaws chickens. Hopefully not for much longer, though. (http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/kitsap/pat/news/87000122.html)

You know your corn!
That was my last crop and it was substandard in quantity compared to previous years, but what did come up was delicious.

The thought of an outright ban on keeping a few chickens in your backyard seems draconian to me, and surprising to hear of in happening in the freedom-loving USA where the homeowners dominion over their property is so jealously guarded. The rules here are that you can keep what like so long as you keep it sanitary. If you neglect your animals and your yard becomes a public health hazard then you're going to get a visit, which I think is a fair arrangement.

Yeah, living in the USA's not always what it's cracked up to be. Luckily BS laws like that are somewhat rare. I've joined their facebook group so that if it ever comes down to a statewide decision, I'll be aware. There's likely no chance of a statewide ban of chickens within city boundaries, but you never know.

I feel lucky to live outside the city of Vancouver, WA. If I did live within the borders, I'd have to adhere to some wacky laws, none as bad as the no chickens law, however.

The most advanced computer is the one you have to fuss with the least. That would put Macintosh on top, and, imho, Windows on the bottom. Today I installed opensuse 11.3 on a test computer at work and it was the smoothest installation I ever have done, and everything worked.

Complexity for its own sake is not a good goal. It's a matter of appropriate technology. That's why I no longer like to go to the grocery store, just a mile away, in a 2,000-pound motorized transportation appliance operated by a licensed equipment operator. I would not have thought that way ten years ago when I was driving to work every day.

Complexity for its own sake is not a good goal. It's a matter of appropriate technology. That's why I no longer like to go to the grocery store, just a mile away, in a 2,000-pound motorized transportation appliance operated by a licensed equipment operator. I would not have thought that way ten years ago when I was driving to work every day.

We see this in a lot of technologies. A very simple design does a specific job. To increase demand for the product, the designers keep piling on features until either 1) you need a Phd to read the manual or 2) the product takes off in another direction (ie, cell phones that are becoming small Internet browsers.) . Same could be said for bicycles, too, but the technology has been around for so long, radical addition of features is not common. Same will probably happen to the new devices. If you remember the development of the word processor back in the 1980s and 90s. Today, word processors rarely seem to come out with major new features. WP software you bought in the later 90s is probably very similar to the new package you'll buy today.

The most advanced computer is the one you have to fuss with the least. That would put Macintosh on top, and, imho, Windows on the bottom. Today I installed opensuse 11.3 on a test computer at work and it was the smoothest installation I ever have done, and everything worked.

Hruh? Depends on what machines you're installing the OSes on. Installing and running Windows XP SP3 on a 1997 vintage Sony Vaio is quite a bit easier than installing and running MacOS 10.4 on a 1999 vintage iMac. Try OS 10.4 on a 1997 vintage Mac Performa 6400 and you're in for a world of hurt.

Installing Mac OS 10.4 on anything but a Mac is somewhat troublesome.

Some of my past Linux installs have been fairly hair-pulling experiences with regards to audio and video card drivers.

Getting good flash action on turn-of-the-century iMacs is difficult.

Utility of the various OSes depends on your needs and knowledge levels. I find keeping my WinXP rigs running well quite simple.

Linux does continue to get closer and closer to being a valid desktop OS for the average user all the time, however.

Ubuntu 10.04

I got in to the $100 computer idea, i'm posting from a netbook I got for about $200. Has linux. i have to admit, i'm a fan of downloading the newest and coolest thing as far as... linux for old, cheap computers. :-)

I also refuse to buy an e-book reader. Have never had a bike with brifters, and years ago I got irritated with indexed shifters and switched back to friction shifters.

I got an iphone as a hand-me-down, which i then bought service for. the iphone is convenient but way expensive, so i plan to downgrade today, to a cheaper phone with cheaper service.

Yep, i'm a luddite in some ways, but not in others.

I'm not trying to make a virtue of becoming a Luddite, just stating a fact.

Do you have Luddite tendencies too?

Luddites seek to destroy more efficient technologies. So a luddite would never get on a bicycle.

Everyone finds their own comfort level with technology.

When you can buy a smart-phone for $80 outright, and get prepaid service for $30-40, I'll have a smart-phone. I have a camera phone (VGA), service costs me $32/month, and last month, I used 70 out of 1000 available air minutes.

I have a 3-y-o laptop, running XP, and the only reason I'm thinking of an upgrade is because of the memory that so many modern sites seem to require.

No car; sister's family lives with me, and they have cars, but the last time I got behind the wheel of any motor vehicle was last December '08. They do the bulk of grocery shopping, but they rarely bring home anything I couldn't haul in the bike trailer.

I bought a flat-screen TV last year, gave my old CRT to my nephew; it lasted him two days. No cable, thinking about a dish at tax time, but not a real need.

I HATE some of the tech features on my 8-y-o fridge; damned timer alarm that beeps when the door is open for more than about a minute, feels like 15 seconds! Never timed it, I just curse it.

Some things are handy; dual-alarm clock, one for weekdays, one for weekends (I work Sundays). The little mp3 player has been a godsend at work, or when in my little junky shop.

Oh, and of course, my 5.7"-travel, dual-suspension do-it-all bike, 27 speeds, dual BB7 185's............

I think of it as less being anti-technology, more anti-marketing. I'd bet that my vacuum cleaner is more sophisticated and advanced than any of yours, also that it is easier and cheaper to fix over the long haul. it also does a better job. And probably none of you have heard of it.

Car driving is more a case of general brainwashing, along with the "consumer lifestyle"

I dumped my TV cable subscription at the same time I swapped the computer monitor for an LCD, it also came with an HDTV tuner, which i intended to connect to a home brew antenna, but laziness and not missing TV has meant that project got shelved.


Hruh? Depends on what machines you're installing the OSes on. Installing and running Windows XP SP3 on a 1997 vintage Sony Vaio is quite a bit easier than installing and running MacOS 10.4 on a 1999 vintage iMac.

Some of my past Linux installs have been fairly hair-pulling experiences with regards to audio and video card drivers.

Have you tried lately? I would bet that I could install 2 separate Linux distributions, with less effort, on a generic Intel chipset, in the time it took you to do one XP install, ( including updates. )


Getting good flash action on turn-of-the-century iMacs is difficult.

Utility of the various OSes depends on your needs and knowledge levels. I find keeping my WinXP rigs running well quite simple.

Linux does continue to get closer and closer to being a valid desktop OS for the average user all the time, however.I have used Linux as a desktop for many years now, of course I'm not average. The comment about Mac OS 10 being difficult to install on anything else is probably true, but then, it was specifically written for particular hardware. Linux is designed to, and can be, run on more different hardware than anything else.

Am I a Luddite or just old? I have a turntable which I still use, I still use a point and shoot film camera, I do not have cable, and both my bikes are steel and have Brooks saddles. I have never had the urge to burn a loom at a textile factory, or smash a CF bike. I think I'm just getting old.

It still seems strange to speak of being a luddite while in a forum on the computer. :lol:

Can you be a luddite while riding a modern Bike rather than a Penny farthing?

I am sure the Amish would think anyone with electricity was far from a Luddite.:eek:

It still seems strange to speak of being a luddite while in a forum on the computer. :lol:

Notice that the thread topic starts with "On becoming.." . I don't think there are many full-fledged reactionaries to modern technologies. My grandfather did not own a car and at one time in his life had to walk over 200 miles to find work. He didn't have a cell phone and knew nothing about email or posting on social networks.

Still I would class a person who posts on the internet about the benefits of friction vs. indexed shifting to be somewhat of a Luddite. :p

Notice that the thread topic starts with "On becoming.." . I don't think there are many full-fledged reactionaries to modern technologies. My grandfather did not own a car and at one time in his life had to walk over 200 miles to find work. He didn't have a cell phone and knew nothing about email or posting on social networks.

Still I would class a person who posts on the internet about the benefits of friction vs. indexed shifting to be somewhat of a Luddite. :p

Isn't that more like the difference between a H pattern verses a paddle shifter verses a Automatic? What if you post on the internet from your smart phone?

A healthy skepticism, of the dehumanization of the Industrial revolution and Capital concentrations, by exploitation of the workers , was not a bad thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

Hruh? Depends on what machines you're installing the OSes on. Installing and running Windows XP SP3 on a 1997 vintage Sony Vaio is quite a bit easier than installing and running MacOS 10.4 on a 1999 vintage iMac. Try OS 10.4 on a 1997 vintage Mac Performa 6400 and you're in for a world of hurt.

Installing Mac OS 10.4 on anything but a Mac is somewhat troublesome.

Some of my past Linux installs have been fairly hair-pulling experiences with regards to audio and video card drivers.

Getting good flash action on turn-of-the-century iMacs is difficult.

Utility of the various OSes depends on your needs and knowledge levels. I find keeping my WinXP rigs running well quite simple.

Linux does continue to get closer and closer to being a valid desktop OS for the average user all the time, however.

Some of you guys who have an old PC with Linux, and a newer machine with Windows... how often do you use the linux machine, and to do what? I have a 10 year old PC running Linux. It sits there never to be turned on. I've moved to Mac over the last two years from Windows. Today I fired up an XP laptop and I was in a world of hate. A few months ago I fired up Windows 7 and it was far superior to XP. Then I came across a pet-peeve and deleted the Win7 VM. Since moving to Mac, I've *never* had any problems.

The problem I find with Linux, it's a great OS to learn on, but the apps on it suck (or maybe I suck at using them?).

Wrt above post, running OSX on anything other than a Mac possibly would be a problem since OSX was never designed to run on anything except Apple hardware, in fact in the later releases, dont they actively do stuff to stop it running on non-Apple hardware? I'm not sure what the latest is with those companies that were selling non-apple hardware with OSX pre-installed.

Linux has a *very* long way to go before being an acceptable desktop OS. Any decent software on it has always had financial backing. OpenOffice was losing money, only being made to gain market share. Ubuntu has Mr Shuttleworth (the multi-millionaire) behind it with some degree of marketing. Various other distros do well with geeks (I have it installed in a vm).

I like OSs and the way they work, but really, I'm more of a "what can this application do for me?" kinda guy rather than "lets check under the hood of this OS". It's all going cloud anyway.

I use my 1999 Compaq Pressario with Linux on a daily basis...when I am home.

Aaron :)

It's all going cloud anyway.
I use Linus Mint as my only desktop at home. It's a refreshing change from the last Windows I had installed where every virus checker in the universe seemed to somehow install itself on the machine and would constantly remind me of something.

However, I do mainly use my computer for its browser applications. I suspect I could run 90% of my applications from a large cell phone... if they weren't always ringing and playing annoying ring tones all the time.

Some of you guys who have an old PC with Linux, and a newer machine with Windows... how often do you use the linux machine, and to do what? I have a 10 year old PC running Linux. It sits there never to be turned on.
I've done lots of web development on Linux machines. I ran a server on Linux for a few years. I putz around with Inkscape and GIMP a bit. Used to play America's Army on Linux back when the Linux version was somewhat widely used. Dunno if there are servers still going these days.


The problem I find with Linux, it's a great OS to learn on, but the apps on it suck (or maybe I suck at using them?).
I like Open Office better than MS Office. I like many of the text editing programs better than notepad. (TextPad and Notepad++ are nice, however)
Wine is crucial if there are certain applications you wish to run. (http://www.winehq.org/)



Wrt above post, running OSX on anything other than a Mac possibly would be a problem since OSX was never designed to run on anything except Apple hardware, in fact in the later releases, dont they actively do stuff to stop it running on non-Apple hardware? I'm not sure what the latest is with those companies that were selling non-apple hardware with OSX pre-installed.
Apple won in court against the biggest one doing that. I wasn't aware that Apple was fighting an ongoing battle with hackintoshers, I just thought that OSX was designed to work with EFI (or whatever it's called), instead of ye olde BIOS/CMOS setup. Dunno much about the specifics on that, though.



I use my 1999 Compaq Pressario with Linux on a daily basis...when I am home.
I wish some linux distro would get along with the vid card in my old Compaq desktop. I've tried Fedora Core, Ubuntu and Debian with no luck.

About Linux:

Own a modern Mac OS? Guess what, it's Linux.

I've run Linux on everything from modern day computers to a Pentium 200 (it still ran Firefox).

As for what applications, most of them. Look for a linux specific application or use Wine to use the Microsoft version.

Really, the only thing left is easy porting of modern games.

Final note:

A decent laptop can act as a DVR (look up Myth TV and/or MythBuntu), connect directly (or wireless) to your TV.

About Linux:

Own a modern Mac OS? Guess what, it's Linux.

Not exactly. Many commands and syntaxes are different. Directory structure is different, etc. It's closer to BSD.



A decent laptop can act as a DVR (look up Myth TV and/or MythBuntu), connect directly (or wireless) to your TV.
I wish one of those distros liked my capture card (ATi 9800 AIW).
ATi's software works OK, I'd like to have a choice to go Myth also, however.
Next capture card I get will be Myth ready for sure.

Not sure what the definition of a luddite is, but from the sound of it, I seem to have some of its characteristic tendencies... I was finally forced to upgrade my cellphone after 4 years to the simplest model I could find. No internet, no camera, just calls and texts. I've also recently downgraded my main computer from a custom built gaming PC to a $200 netbook with Linux (anyone want to buy a PC and some great games? ;) ) I much prefer riding my old steel Fuji over the Cannondale Quick my dad got for me (for which I feel very guilty...).

I love listening to vinyl, but am starting to think about selling the turntable in favor of a more sustainable iTunes library... this is where the "simplifying" protocol becomes "complicated." Analog audio is simpler technology, but digital audio is simpler to maintain, transport, store, etc.

Anyways my friends think I've gone off the deep end since I'm 22 and am a computer engineer. I'm just going to put this out there - I'm forecasting an anti-technology movement in the coming decade of similar scale and proportion to the counter-culture of the 60s (maybe even more widespread). You heard it here first, folks.

I'll probably at the front, leading the charge into the woods. Who's coming with me?

Not sure what the definition of a luddite is, but from the sound of it, I seem to have some of its characteristic tendencies... I was finally forced to upgrade my cellphone after 4 years to... (wait for it) the simplest model I could find. No internet, no camera, just calls and texts. I've also recently downgraded my main computer from a custom built gaming PC to a $200 netbook with Linux (anyone want to buy a PC and some great games? ;) ) I much prefer riding my old steel Fuji over the Cannondale Quick my dad got for me (for which I feel very guilty...).

I love listening to vinyl, but am starting to think about selling the turntable in favor of a more sustainable iTunes library... this is where the "simplifying" protocol becomes "complicated." Analog audio is simpler technology, but digital audio is simpler to maintain, transport, store, etc.

Anyways my friends think I've gone off the deep end since I'm 22 and am a computer engineer. I'm just going to put this out there - I'm forecasting an anti-technology movement in the coming decade of similar scale and proportion to the counter-culture of the 60s (maybe even more widespread). You heard it here first, folks.

I'll probably at the front, leading the charge into the woods. Who's coming with me?

I don't think it's a new movement--just that you're young and perhaps noticing it for the first time, so it seems new to you. Throughout American history there has been an underground "back to nature" movement. If you're interested in the history, some names to start with are Thoreau, Muir, the Nearings, Rodale, Stewart Brand, and many others.

I'm not sure if I can blame this on the bicycle, but since adopting it as my primary means of transportation, I've become a real fan of simple, effective technology that isn't constantly bloating itself with new features.
snippage.....
Do you have Luddite tendencies too?

Not necessarily Luddite, but I do find that when I find something that works for me, I tend to stick with it, and more often than not, it is a very efficient thing - examples:

My primary bicycle has a steel frame, friction bar end shifter, leather saddle, and many would call it 'retro' - I call it a comfortable commuter.

I shave with a razor which uses double edge blades, and use shaving soap and a brush rather than an aerosol can.

I write with a fountain pen, which I refill with ink rather than using disposable pens as most of my peers seem to.

I work as an engineer, and bought a calculator when I graduated (an HP41C) which I still use daily today.

I wouldn't say that I am a luddite, but I appreciate efficient, proven technology over the latest shiny gadget.

Sounds like we are trying to redefine the word. Can one be a luddite and express it on a computer? Does it matter if it is the newest computer as long as it uses the newest web services? Advanced technology can be simple and easy to use in fact it is most often simpler and easier to use than old technology. Can you be a luddite when you decide to fly in a jet plane rather than ride a train accross country? Can you even be a luddite wearing machine made cloths?

I guess you can have luddite leanings.

I think what's needed in our society is a word or catchy statement philosophy around which people who try to go tech-lite, media-lite, and consumer-lite can cohere.