Here's the story: Bloomberg and the rest of the glorious NYPD are looking to make some arrests tomorow (Friday) night at Critical Mass in New York City. I think they had such a fun time violating the rights of cyclists during the RNC that they just can't stop. I've been on many a ride, and I've never heard of more than one incident with the police. Usually, we all get along. But after the 264 arrests during the RNC, it seems like the NYPD has forgotten this. Suddenly we're a threat... to traffic.
I tried to sign up for the nyc-cm txtmob group (http://www.txtmob.com for more info) but its private and moderated. Anyone on it that could invite me? If so, PM me... or maybe we'll start a new one. I think it'd be a great opportunity to try out the system. Though perhaps txting and cycling isn't the best idea.
SO we're not allowed to ride in a procession? What about automobiles for the rest of the month? They're in a procession of oil consumption...
Any ideas on how to handle the cops? In any case... I'll be there.
Thanks, and stay safe!
F
slvoid
09-23-04, 08:57 PM
Stop at every red light. Come to a full stop at stop lights. Stay in your lane. Don't run into or cut across pedestrians.
glomarduck
09-23-04, 09:05 PM
**** not again
seely
09-23-04, 11:24 PM
The easiest way to "handle" the cops is to actually ride legally for once. Novel concept, I know.
Sorry I'm just really tired of Critical Mess. Its done nothing but hurt the cycling community. Its a bunch of wanna-be martyrs looking for conflict (despite the fact they say its a peaceful event) so they can be the victims of political oppression. Boohoo. You aren't doing anyone any good by blocking cars on a green light, going through red lights, riding 15 abreast, etc. If the point is to get motorists to respect cyclists thats a really piss poor way of doing it. Motorists entire qualm with cyclists is they feel they inconvenience and slow down motor traffic. What a great way to assuage that fear by inconveniencing and slowing down motor traffic! Brilliant! And then there are those that choose to quarrel with the police, and then when a cyclist actually does get hurt, they come here crying about how the police didn't care. I wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do with 1,500 angry cyclists calling them facist pigs, would it?
Ok before I get anymore worked up I'm out. Something to think about though.
Jon
dereknc
09-24-04, 06:56 PM
You're absolutely right seely.
glomarduck
09-24-04, 07:10 PM
The easiest way to "handle" the cops is to actually ride legally for once. Novel concept, I know.
Sorry I'm just really tired of Critical Mess. Its done nothing but hurt the cycling community. Its a bunch of wanna-be martyrs looking for conflict (despite the fact they say its a peaceful event) so they can be the victims of political oppression. Boohoo. You aren't doing anyone any good by blocking cars on a green light, going through red lights, riding 15 abreast, etc. If the point is to get motorists to respect cyclists thats a really piss poor way of doing it. Motorists entire qualm with cyclists is they feel they inconvenience and slow down motor traffic. What a great way to assuage that fear by inconveniencing and slowing down motor traffic! Brilliant! And then there are those that choose to quarrel with the police, and then when a cyclist actually does get hurt, they come here crying about how the police didn't care. I wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do with 1,500 angry cyclists calling them facist pigs, would it?
Ok before I get anymore worked up I'm out. Something to think about though.
Jon
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
twahl
09-24-04, 07:17 PM
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
If 5000 cars can wait for signals and stretch for miles on end, why shouldn't cyclists? Oh, I forgot, cyclists are special because they are trying to make a point, right? I forgot.
glomarduck
09-24-04, 07:34 PM
If 5000 cars can wait for signals and stretch for miles on end, why shouldn't cyclists? Oh, I forgot, cyclists are special because they are trying to make a point, right? I forgot.
So I guess your the type who thinks cars don't contribute to global warming and don't think that your doing anything to contribute to global warming. Or that your dependance on saudi oil is funding terrorism; the problem is extreme so the protest should be too. Also it is a magical feeling to ride with thousands of other cyclists with out the threat of cars. Riding in C.M. is quiet, fun, wholesome and completely right. I bet you have never done it and yet you put it down so ravenously.
twahl
09-24-04, 08:12 PM
Where in the hell does my statement say or infer anything about global warming?
I agree with the others that say that CM does more to harm the cause of cycling than a dozen Neandertals going through downtown L.A. on tricycles could ever do. The events draw negative attention to cyclists. You may feel all warm and fuzzy about riding with 1000 other people and ignoring traffic signals while screaming to be treated as well or better than motorists and then *****ing about "police harassment", but the rest of us have to deal with all the people that you piss off while we're out there alone, or worse yet riding with our kids. You people need to get over yourselves.
slvoid
09-24-04, 08:25 PM
Which part of "obey the law" don't you understand?
glomarduck
09-24-04, 08:49 PM
Which part of "obey the law" don't you understand?
Laws are not always just or right
slvoid
09-24-04, 09:01 PM
Laws are not always just or right
Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?
glomarduck
09-24-04, 09:30 PM
The cops and bloomberg have really gone ape in the last month and they should be promoting cycling. Instead they are painting cyclists as criminals. You know I would like to commute every day to school with out being yelled at and almost hit by cars every morning and not having to breath in smog. Germany has a fantastic system of bike paths THROUGHOUT CITYS not just around the perimeter like here in N.Y.C. I don't see why so many cyclists are against the protests when they are promoting cycling. Oh my god these people are screwing up traffic for a few hours every month, thats a real big deal and oh man how will we survive. Rush hour traffic here is 1000 time worse then C.M. will ever be and it happens every ****ing day.
toolbox63
09-24-04, 09:30 PM
Me thinks that ye is destined for a dance with the men in blue.
slvoid
09-24-04, 09:52 PM
Still doesn't answer:
Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?
I'm all for advocacy and yes, believe it or not you can get together a group of friends and ride around lawfully without being arrested. I too once had my nose up in the air and thought I also deserved to carry my pissed off angst attitude everywhere. But I'm starting to grow up.
My 25 mile round trip commute to work is pretty uneventful, even through traffic. I have accidents everyonce in a while and sometimes it's my fault, I suck it up and move on. If I break the law, I'm not gonna moan and whine about it. It's like the cyclists who whine about a speeding ticket.
glomarduck
09-24-04, 10:03 PM
Still doesn't answer:
Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?
I'm all for advocacy and yes, believe it or not you can get together a group of friends and ride around lawfully without being arrested. I too once had my nose up in the air and thought I also deserved to carry my pissed off angst attitude everywhere. But I'm starting to grow up.
My 25 mile round trip commute to work is pretty uneventful, even through traffic. I have accidents everyonce in a while and sometimes it's my fault, I suck it up and move on. If I break the law, I'm not gonna moan and whine about it. It's like the cyclists who whine about a speeding ticket.
Your right those are unlawful but C.M. is just using them as a method to get there point out that "whose streets? Our streets" kind of thing and it's rare that you can get a revolution of the ground without breaking the rules at least once in a while. I am really tired of people who just except the world they live in, I look at the world, take it all in and see what I can do to change it (especially through art). This world is ours and we are not just chess pawns in a governmental game. Also man, I am definitely not pissed off, If anything I am usually happy and definitely try to avoid confrontation. You think that certain people are all the same But but they are not.
slvoid
09-24-04, 10:13 PM
I kind of know what you're saying but you also made the point that they're using unlawful means as a method to get a point out.
seely
09-25-04, 01:04 AM
I get my point out by riding to work and school everyday, not impeding traffic (or as little as possible) and riding within the law.
slvoid
09-25-04, 05:59 AM
I get my point out by riding to work and school everyday, not impeding traffic (or as little as possible) and riding within the law.
Me too, in fact, I've had coworkers engage me in conversation about it and I've managed to make two of them gain an interest in cycling to work (one lives about 15 min away, the other lives the same distance I do in another direction) as a legit means of transportation.
Daily Commute
09-25-04, 06:16 AM
If you want to take over the street, follow the same parade permit procedure that every other group uses. Otherwise, follow the traffic rules or don't whine about being arrested for intentionally blocking traffic.
bpohl
09-25-04, 07:15 AM
The whole critical mass idea, I think, is a good one; yet the way it gets carried out is counterproductive. The reason why so many drivers have no respect for cyclists is that so many have no clue how to ride. By clogging traffic and running red lights with no permit to do so, you are simply saying "we are above the law and we dare you to do anything about it". Yes, you're making a statement, but it's not one that gets anyone else out of his or her car and onto a bike. Instead, they think, "look at these *******s blatantly breaking the law. Someone should just run a few of them over." That, coupled with worng-way cyclists, cyclists who weave around cars for sport, and sidewalk riders, all give the riders who obey laws a bad name. Little wonder so many cyclists get killed in hit and runs.
mirona
09-25-04, 07:31 AM
I too think that the Critical Mass is a good idea that's carried out poorly. Don't you think it would make a much bigger statement if those people in cars saw thousands of cyclists in a nice straight line, signaling, stopping at lights and obeying all the same traffic laws they do? Instead they see a bunch of pompous asses who think they own the road. I thought the idea we were trying to get out was to share it!
twahl
09-25-04, 09:32 AM
Oh my god these people are screwing up traffic for a few hours every month, thats a real big deal and oh man how will we survive. Rush hour traffic here is 1000 time worse then C.M. will ever be and it happens every ****ing day.
The difference is that the motorists that are stuck in traffic didn't choose to cause an obstruction, and they generally follow traffic signals. I said generally, so don't pick the point. There are simply too many off them in one place at one time, and guarantee that each and every one of them wish that the rest of them weren't there to create a traffic jam. They didn't decide "let's all meet at 14th and Elm and drive around the city creating havoc".
I too agree that the idea "to promote cycling" is outstanding. Critical Mass however doesn't do that. It causes a confrontation with the very people (those in charge, those in positions of power, however you want to view it) that need to be lobbied in order to make changes. Unfortunately in a city like New York, there are these big things called buildings that are very difficult to move. Because of this simple fact, it's hard to add in bike lanes to existing streets or to add separate trails.
There are things that can be improved, like how the police respond to complaints o problems with motorists, increasing awareness among the general public and among employers, dealing better with the issue of bike theft, etc. Some of the energy put into scheduling these "impromptu" rides could be very well put to use actually doing something to help rather than pissing people off.
Anybody that wishes to go anywhere in life, that wants to win friends and influence people, that wants to succeed takes to heart one very simple rule. Don't complain unless you have a solution to offer. What are the solutions offered by Critical Mass in New York? Is this method working toward enacting those solutions? Are the solutions doable? If not, what CAN we do?
Take the religious context out of this and accept it for it's own truthful value: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Phiber
09-25-04, 09:41 AM
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
That would look bad ass. :)
Bop Bop
09-25-04, 10:11 AM
I am a 55 year old transplanted NYC'er, who lived in NYC for over 50 years and feel I'm as firmilar with the streets of NYC as any NYC'er. We all know how bad the traffic in NYC is, we all know how poorly some of the intersections are and how congested intersections can be with pedistrians and cars all trying to cross at once. Hell, I didn't like it when I lived there, I doubt if I would like it now.
I know how mad drivers get when traffic is stopped because some politician or dignatary wants to go shopping and the police shut half the city. I know how mad people get when someone has a demonstration and blocks a bridge or street (remember the demonstration a few years ago that closed the Brooklyn Bridge when a young Africian American child was killed by a Hasadiac man, or Sharptons march through Bay Ridge, etc). I've sat in my car counting how many red lights it took to go a block). People got madder and their dislikes grew even worse.
CM, says it wants to change thinks, great!!! Try doing it legally on your rides, and also in the Voting Booths. Support canidates who support your causes, hell run a candidate. Lobby the right people in goverment, support them financially. Hold meetings open to the public to discuss your concerns, get politians to come and speak, listen and answer questions.
Other than ticking lots of NYC'ers off, forcing the city to spend money it does not have on police overtime, courts, etc. you are accomplishing nothing. If CM thinks it's getting people behind it's cause it's so wrong. All it's managing to do is piss off alot of people. How long is it going to be before some of these pissed off people decide to take their frustration out on cyclists (if it has not already happened). Chances are the poor cyclist that will suffer for CM's actions will be some poor innocent person minding his/her business that has no affliation with CM. It's tough enough for cyclists out there already, all CM is doing is making it tougher.
dobber
09-25-04, 10:30 AM
Laws are not always just or right
Brilliant !! Breaking a law is ok if you don't agree with it. Again, brilliant !!
glomarduck
09-25-04, 11:50 AM
That would look bad ass. :)
Your totally right that would look bad ass. Kind of a mix between Gandhi and merckx.
John Ridley
09-25-04, 01:25 PM
How long is it going to be before some of these pissed off people decide to take their frustration out on cyclists (if it has not already happened). Chances are the poor cyclist that will suffer for CM's actions will be some poor innocent person minding his/her business that has no affliation with CM. It's tough enough for cyclists out there already, all CM is doing is making it tougher.
One of the critical mass riders in Ann Arbor, Michigan was hit intentionally by a car that was being held up by the ride in the last few years. I live in the area, didn't hear about it at the time but read about it later. His bike was messed up, he got some stitches I think and the driver was arrested.
I've personally been a bit baffled by CM. I always thought that the way you become accepted by people is by getting along, playing it straight and showing that you and they can coexist. If CM is right, then whenever my neighbors do something I don't like, I should be sure to do something that irritates them a lot. That'll teach them.
It seems like CM is into the theory that if you're wronged, the correct response is retaliation, and if you want laws changed, you do so by breaking them. Maybe this works, but I actually hope not. I'd hate for every special interest group in the country to try to change things this way; it'd be a pretty dangerous place.
Bop Bop
09-25-04, 04:07 PM
It seems like CM is into the theory that if you're wronged, the correct response is retaliation, and if you want laws changed, you do so by breaking them. Maybe this works, but I actually hope not. I'd hate for every special interest group in the country to try to change things this way; it'd be a pretty dangerous place.
John,
I think I've heard similar reasoning before, coming out of country's and groups who dislike American's. I like you hope people, etc do not try to change things in that manner.
One of the things which makes this country great is our right to try and vote out those in power who we disagree with. If CM thinks Bloomberg and company are wrong, support those who are against him and others like him. Maybe, people will start to see what the power of free speech is all about.
9 arrested, 40 bikes confiscated on the Sept NYC Critical Mass
It just keeps geting weirder and weirder
twahl
09-25-04, 09:43 PM
I just noticed looking over an August issue of Bicycling that a velodrome in Queens was recently renovated with a new surface. Bloomburg apparently allocated a half a million dollars for the project. Is this the guy you are pissed at?
glomarduck
09-25-04, 09:58 PM
I just noticed looking over an August issue of Bicycling that a velodrome in Queens was recently renovated with a new surface. Bloomburg apparently allocated a half a million dollars for the project. Is this the guy you are pissed at?
Yep he's the one. Just because a politician dose one thing good doesn't mean he so great and many new yorkers are pissed at him for more than cycling. Like the rules of conduct and safety regulations pushed in all ready safe schools, while teachers are fighting for a contract and when he took away all the city's recycling. The guys a business man not a politician and looks at the city like a business man. If you follow local new york news and listen to the way he speaks you will find he is not a nice guy (or mayor at that)
twahl
09-25-04, 10:01 PM
Yep he's the one. Just because a politician dose one thing good doesn't mean he so great and many new yorkers are pissed at him for more than cycling. Like the rules of conduct and safety regulations pushed in all ready safe schools, while teachers are fighting for a contract and when he took away all the city's recycling. The guys a business man not a politician and looks at the city like a business man. If you follow local new york news and listen to the way he speaks you will find he is not a nice guy (or mayor at that)
So Critical Mass is protesting new safety/conduct rules in schools, lack of teacher contracts, and lack of recycling. Gotcha.
glomarduck
09-25-04, 10:18 PM
So Critical Mass is protesting new safety/conduct rules in schools, lack of teacher contracts, and lack of recycling. Gotcha.
No but they all tie together as reasons for why bloom-bergs popularity has been going down among new yorkers. You yourself brought up the kissena park velodrome thats kind of a non sequitur (yeah it has something to do with cycling but it's more of a parks department thing). I'm a student, an artist and a cyclist so I have my own reasons why don't like him. Those school things happened to be fresh in my head. I could give you a gigantic list of reasons why people don't like him, but whatever things are already to fragmented right now so there is no use putting order in this mess.
meb
09-26-04, 12:22 AM
twahl: "So Critical Mass is protesting new safety/conduct rules in schools, lack of teacher contracts, and lack of recycling. Gotcha."
Glomerduck: "No but they all tie together as reasons for why bloom-bergs popularity has been going down among new yorkers. You yourself brought up the kissena park velodrome thats kind of a non sequitur (yeah it has something to do with cycling but it's more of a parks department thing). I'm a student, an artist and a cyclist so I have my own reasons why don't like him. Those school things happened to be fresh in my head. I could give you a gigantic list of reasons why people don't like him, but whatever things are already to fragmented right now so there is no use putting order in this mess."
So NYC Critical Mass is a partisan political club for politically inspired cyclists rather than a cycling focussed advocacy group, the group prefering to tee motorists off about cyclists so as to call attention to their political agendas?
Ever consider how many cyclists may get run over or doored as a result of motorists victimized by critical mass delays, further inspired by a Clear Channel shock jock on the motorists car radio during the delay, electing to later take anger out on some non-CM motorist down the road just so CM riders can waste motorists time on their noncycling political agendas?
glomarduck
09-26-04, 06:27 AM
Obviously we have seen since the last C.M. thread that this subject can not work with most of the conservative cyclists here and will always spark a political debate. So I think that we should just settle and say that everybody has personal motives for what they do . C.M. usually dose settle in the left because the left is who has traditionally fought for environmentalism and dose get caught up in other leftist motives. So (as hackneyed as this is) lets agree to disagree.
meb
09-26-04, 12:21 PM
Obviously we have seen since the last C.M. thread that this subject can not work with most of the conservative cyclists here and will always spark a political debate. So I think that we should just settle and say that everybody has personal motives for what they do . C.M. usually dose settle in the left because the left is who has traditionally fought for environmentalism and dose get caught up in other leftist motives. So (as hackneyed as this is) lets agree to disagree.
Seems the only political debate going on in this thread was due the injection of partisan politics as a justification for hijacking a dubious cycling advocacy platform as a pretext for voicing partisan politics under the illusion of cycling remaining nonpartisan.
CM creates ill feeling toward cyclists on the part of motorist.
If your objective is protesting Bloomberg, properly identify yourself as an anti-Bloomberg coalition on your rides and stop misleading the motorist you anger under the disguise of being a nonpartisan cyclist advocacy group, so the rest of the nonpartisan cycling community needn’t suffer the wrath of the motoring community traffic blocking generates.
brokenrobot
09-26-04, 02:25 PM
Rest assured, Glomarduck (while presumably good-intentioned) does not speak for Critical Mass; he speaks only as one participant, and many of us ride for reasons that center entirely around cycling and civic policy toward cyclists.
-chris
gpsblake
09-26-04, 04:02 PM
Even the very liberal Village Daily Voice is now critical of what the NYC Critical Mass has become. They point out it is not about bicycling interest but left wing politics. I'll have to admit, I've never seen a CM rider carrying a Pro-Bush sign, have you?
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0435/baard.php
"Bicycle advocacy takes the back of the banana seat to Bush-bashing"
The group that claims to control NYC Critical Mass
http://www.times-up.org/ is now a tax deductible organization
The problem I have with that is NO ONE is supposed to be in charge of Critical Mass rides. Clearly the NY branch has gotten out of control with what Critical Mass was supposed to have been.
twahl
09-26-04, 06:08 PM
Rest assured, Glomarduck (while presumably good-intentioned) does not speak for Critical Mass; he speaks only as one participant, and many of us ride for reasons that center entirely around cycling and civic policy toward cyclists.
-chris
That may very well be true, but the organization that has hijacked NY's CM rides, has turned it into anything but a positive exposure for cycling. There are PETA members that have pets and support PETA because they relate animals to pets, whereas PETA's goals include eradicating the idea of pets and service animals. I'm sure that many CM riders participate for the cycling advocacy cause, but they have grown to a point of not having the intended effect. Not only have officials in NY been driven to "clamp down" on CM rides, but the public is becoming much less tolerant of cyclists as a result of the bad behavior and disregard for common traffic law that seems to have become the trademark for these rides. When I see the attention in the media, and read reports of motorist's reactions, I feel like CM is having a negative impact on my safety because motorists associate me, as a cyclist, with what they have heard and read about CM rides.
brokenrobot
09-26-04, 06:45 PM
The group that claims to control NYC Critical Mass
http://www.times-up.org/ is now a tax deductible organization
Times Up! explicitly DENIES being in control of NYC critical mass; all they do is provide publicity for the event, as do any number of others. CM will continue with or without Times Up!, though many of the other cycling-awareness activities and organized rides that exist in New York - and which WERE solely created by and are run by volunteers from Times Up! would surely end with that organization, and would be sorely missed.
Twahl - I'm not entirely certain what you mean by the PETA analogy - surely you're not suggesting that PETA has "hijacked NY's CM rides"? ;) If your claim, like gpsblake's, is that Times Up! has too much control over the rides, I'm not sure how to rebut that; they don't claim control over CM, and I'm frankly sympathetic with their thesis that environmental causes and cyclist rights issues are deeply linked, especially in a city so thoroughly constructed around the idea that (polluting) motorists have special rights as New York.
-chris
DieselDan
09-26-04, 06:50 PM
The renovation of Kissna Park was to help NYC's bid of the 2012 Olympics.
twahl
09-26-04, 07:13 PM
Twahl - I'm not entirely certain what you mean by the PETA analogy - surely you're not suggesting that PETA has "hijacked NY's CM rides"? ;)
Yeah, I guess that wasn't real clear. My point is that people often support organizations because the organization has led them to believe that it is in their best interest to do so, when in fact the organization may have goals that are contrary to the goals of the people that have been recruited to be voices for it. PETA is often supported, for isntance, by vegatarians that are also pet owners. They love their pets. PETA has a stated goal of eliminating pet ownership, so in this case the people that support the organization would actually be harmed if the organization achieved it's goals. Yet they inflate the numbers of supporters and members. Related to Times Up, they seem to be piggybacking on what should be a good idea, and inflating the event to a proportion that is counterproductive to the goals of Critical Mass. Not to mention that they are using CM riders to *apparently* inflate the number of people that support their various causes. The end result being that the cause of cyclists are hurt by negative perceptions of the general public of the activity.
scarry
09-27-04, 02:17 PM
You can talk and beef about CM all you want, but it's been going on every month for 12 years in many cities around the world. And it will continue for much longer.
The world is about to enter an age of permanent oil scarcity. So look for Critical Mass every day.
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/index.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/083004A.shtml
ch0mb0
09-27-04, 02:51 PM
A lot of people probably get caught up in CM for the wrong reasons.
Odd though, there was never much trouble with these monthly rides until the RNC came to town, yes? So why are the police making such a big deal of it now?
Things will never be the same again..for better or worse :/
twahl
09-27-04, 03:03 PM
Because a larger number of people turned out than normal, and they drew lots of attention by turning it into a political demonstration that had nothing to do with cycling? Because Times Up advertised that they were going to block traffic? Gee, I don't know why all the sudden there's all this negative attention.
Actually, NYC CM regularly draws well over 1,000 riders in the summer months, and has for at least several years... I agree that the August crackdown was as a result of the RNC - Ray Kelly was quoted in New York magazine explaining that he'd had the cyclists shut down in order to teach a lesson to "all the anarchists"... However, in my view, the September crackdown is unrelated to politics, except inasmuch as Kelly is rather enjoying the taste of power he got hooked on while assaulting "anarchists" and other believers in the First Amendment while the Republicans were in town. At a bet, the cops will chill out as CM (and the attendant media coverage) dwindles a bit during the cold weather months, and things will be back to normal come spring. It is, for example, rather encouraging that the 8 people arrested this month were apparently released without charges, and indications are that the courts will stand up for the cyclists who had their locks illegally cut and their bikes illegally siezed by police after the ride ended.
Note that I'm not arguing that CM - or anyone else- be allowed to break traffic laws at will; I ride CM, in fact, mainly because I'm disgusted that there is so little (effectively no) traffic enforcement in NYC, which leads to conditions that are tremendously dangerous for pedestrians and for cyclists. In just one example - estimates are that autos run 1,000,000 red lights in the city EVERY DAY; with the new cameras up and running, the police estimate they'll be able to ticket 100,000 of those drivers a YEAR this year - that's 0.027% of the actual offenders. I'd love it if the cops started ticketing cyclists for breaking traffic laws - so long as they start ticketing drivers, too - and I'd even be able to cope with random arrests of cyclists for breaking traffic laws, especially if such a policy were preceded by a policy calling for the arrest and prosecution of every reckless driver who hits or kills a cyclist or a pedestrian. It seems unreasonable, however, to arrest cyclists for breaking laws that, to judge by the manner of enforcement, effectively don't apply to automobile drivers in this city, and which would ordinarily be ticketing offenses even if the law WERE enforced - and that's what seems to be happening at CM these days.
-chris
scarry
09-30-04, 10:54 AM
Bravo....................
All you folks need to quit focusing on bikes breaking the traffic laws, (which endangers themselvs), while every car on the road is SPEEDING. I know they are speeding because when I drive my car at the speed limit, ALL the other cars are passing me. When will the police arrest all those speeders.
These speeders endanger bikes, because the speed difference is so great.
Actually, NYC CM regularly draws well over 1,000 riders in the summer months, and has for at least several years... I agree that the August crackdown was as a result of the RNC - Ray Kelly was quoted in New York magazine explaining that he'd had the cyclists shut down in order to teach a lesson to "all the anarchists"... However, in my view, the September crackdown is unrelated to politics, except inasmuch as Kelly is rather enjoying the taste of power he got hooked on while assaulting "anarchists" and other believers in the First Amendment while the Republicans were in town. At a bet, the cops will chill out as CM (and the attendant media coverage) dwindles a bit during the cold weather months, and things will be back to normal come spring. It is, for example, rather encouraging that the 8 people arrested this month were apparently released without charges, and indications are that the courts will stand up for the cyclists who had their locks illegally cut and their bikes illegally siezed by police after the ride ended.
Note that I'm not arguing that CM - or anyone else- be allowed to break traffic laws at will; I ride CM, in fact, mainly because I'm disgusted that there is so little (effectively no) traffic enforcement in NYC, which leads to conditions that are tremendously dangerous for pedestrians and for cyclists. In just one example - estimates are that autos run 1,000,000 red lights in the city EVERY DAY; with the new cameras up and running, the police estimate they'll be able to ticket 100,000 of those drivers a YEAR this year - that's 0.027% of the actual offenders. I'd love it if the cops started ticketing cyclists for breaking traffic laws - so long as they start ticketing drivers, too - and I'd even be able to cope with random arrests of cyclists for breaking traffic laws, especially if such a policy were preceded by a policy calling for the arrest and prosecution of every reckless driver who hits or kills a cyclist or a pedestrian. It seems unreasonable, however, to arrest cyclists for breaking laws that, to judge by the manner of enforcement, effectively don't apply to automobile drivers in this city, and which would ordinarily be ticketing offenses even if the law WERE enforced - and that's what seems to be happening at CM these days.