Bicycle Mechanics - Having a hard time converting to STI shifters *PICS*

This is going to be very long so i suggest you go grab a beer and some munchies!

Ok, so have a 93 C'dale with downtube shifters. It has a 8 speed cassette. Its a double chainring. The RD can be indexed or friction with a twist near the downtube shifter and the FD is just friction. The bike is all 105(the old version) as shown in the pic.

I got a pair of 8 speed Ultegra 600 STI shifters on ebay. It came with cables, housing, cable stops ect. I already setup the brakes but im having the hardest time setting up the shifters. I already stripped a screw on the FD that holds the cable in place. Thank god I didnt strip the inside of the derailleur. With the RD, it only shifts a few but it doesnt hold it in place. It just goes back after i let go of the shifter. Im not sure what the cable stop thing is for, but I twist it alittle to make the cable tighter and when i shift it can move alittle more up but it still wont hold it in place.

My questions to you is, do I need a new RD and FD?
What is the purpose of the cable stop being able to twist to make it tighter in the cable? Would I need to adjust the cable stop everytime I shift alittle more upward? How can I make the shifters stay in place?
Im sure im forgetting more questions, but I cant think of any now.

Thanks
Mike

This is going to be very long so i suggest you go grab a beer and some munchies!

Ok, so have a 93 C'dale with downtube shifters. It has a 8 speed cassette. Its a double chainring. The RD can be indexed or friction with a twist near the downtube shifter and the FD is just friction. The bike is all 105(the old version) as shown in the pic.

I got a pair of 8 speed Ultegra 600 STI shifters on ebay. It came with cables, housing, cable stops ect. I already setup the brakes but im having the hardest time setting up the shifters. I already stripped a screw on the FD that holds the cable in place. Thank god I didnt strip the inside of the derailleur. With the RD, it only shifts a few but it doesnt hold it in place. It just goes back after i let go of the shifter. Im not sure what the cable stop thing is for, but I twist it alittle to make the cable tighter and when i shift it can move alittle more up but it still wont hold it in place.

My questions to you is, do I need a new RD and FD?
What is the purpose of the cable stop being able to twist to make it tighter in the cable? Would I need to adjust the cable stop everytime I shift alittle more upward? How can I make the shifters stay in place?
Im sure im forgetting more questions, but I cant think of any now.

Thanks
MikeAssuming the shifters aren't hosed, the problem in the rear could be nothing but adjustment.www.parktool.com has how to in the repairsection.Basically, start with the rear shifter in the small cog position,cable loose, and adjuster in back of deralier screwed in all the way and then backed out two turns, and then set hi and low limits by moving deralier by hand and checking pulley position under the small and big cogs.Atttach cable to proper position on RD while applying tension to cable.You could also be having cable and casing issues. the FD screw can be replaced. The downtube cable stop adjusters are to allow small adjustments if needed while rifing.typically they aren't needed.Sometimes it's better to eat some humble pie and take self and mess to good LBS.

So those components are compatible with the shifter correct?
And all the cable and housing are brand new

Sometimes it's better to eat some humble pie and take self and mess to good LBS.

Agreed.

I think because it's not holding a gear then there's something other than component compatibility at work here. Even if the 105 RD wasn't compatible it should shift... it might be rough and noisy but some sort of shift should happen.

The OP is probably in over their head... it's a worthwhile investment to have the LBS get the whole system to a known good state and/or verify that the shifters are working correctly. If it's shifting and then dropping down there are two possibilities:

1) The set-up is wrong and the shifter is in the wrong part of the range. That is, can't index over the whole cluster and is overshooting the (shifter's) last stop.

2) The shifter is hosed.

If the OP is wanting to troubleshoot #2 then that's easy. Remove the shift cable from the derailleur (to release all tension) and with your hand pull on it (this is easiest at the down tube). Keeping a light tension on the cable work through the gears on the shifter. If you can't feel all eight positions then the shifter is broken.

So those components are compatible with the shifter correct?
Yeah..........

Agreed.

The OP is in over their head... it's a worthwhile investment to have the LBS get the whole system to a known good state and/or verify that the shifters are working correctly. If it's shifting then dropping down there are two possibilities:

1) The set-up is wrong and the shifter is in the wrong part of the range. That is, can't index over the whole cluster and is overshooting the (shifter's) last stop.

2) The shifter is hosed.

If the OP is wanting to troubleshoot #2 then that's easy. Remove the shift cable from the derailleur (to release all tension) and with your hand pull on it (this is easiest at the down tube). Keeping a light tension on the cable work through the gears on the shifter. If you can't feel all eight positions then the shifter is broken.


I just tried your suggestion and I heard all the clicks. I keept on pressing it and it kept on clicking without a pause. Is there suppose to be a pause after the 8 click?

I just tried your suggestion and I heard all the clicks. I keept on pressing it and it kept on clicking without a pause. Is there suppose to be a pause after the 8 click?

There will be a stop after the last click corresponding to the smallest cog... that means after the cable is "longest". When working the shifter as if you were shifting to larger cogs (that is pulling cable into the shifter) there usually isn't a stop after 8 clicks... there's a little extra motion. That's why I thought you might have the cable adjusted a bit wrong.

Instead of each click corresponding like this:

small---------large cog (cluster)
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 (shifter position)

you'd be more like this
small----------large cog
2-3-4-5-6-7-8-no click (shifter position)

Make sense?

Yep, i tried that. But it after it shifts completely, it drops back again. I can only get it to stick once but after i tried shifting up again it dropped 2 gears.

Yep, i tried that. But it after it shifts completely, it drops back again. I can only get it to stick once but after i tried shifting up again it dropped 2 gears.

Have your LBS check the shifters then.

I told you, buy my OCR2. :)

My guess would be the shifters are hosed... the 600's were probably some of the worst STI levers unfortunately. From all accounts I've heard they were somewhat troublesome and failure-prone. Hopefully yours are ok, but its best just to take it to the LBS at this point as others have said.

Come to think of it the FD might not be STI compatible. I'm using an 8spd 600 rear with 9spd Tiagra shifters, that works great, but I had a RX100 or 105 front and the head mechanic told me it wouldn't work with the Tiagra STI's. Don't remember why, but it was an old 105/RX100, similar vintage to yours. Ran in friction like yours.

Ahhh man, i really hope thats not the case.

And slvoid, would you take a nicely crisp twenty dollar bill for it?

An 8 speed shifter should only have 7 "clicks". Click the small lever until there is no more click, then you're in the "smallest cog", then there should be 7 clicks of the larger lever until you get to the largest cog.

When you're testing, you are spinning the cranks right? (I know that's obvious but I thought I'd ask.)

I think you need to take up more slack in the RD cable than you are doing. Make sure the derailer is in the smallest cog position when you pull the RD cable to take up the slack (plierd help to get a better grip).

BTW, if the downtube shifters were working fine before, don't mess with the limit screws (hope it's not too late).

BTW, I have what looks like the same 105 front derailer, the FD-1056 and it runs fine with my Ultegra 9 speed STI.

Couple of more things:
- You should use ferrules on the ends of the cables.
- If you replaced the cable housings, did you make sure they where compression-less housings and not brake cable housings?
http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/housingtypes.jpg

Thanks BlastRadius

Are ferrules that important? I use them on my brakes, but not shifters. Anyways im using the Compressionless housing.

Ok UPDATE:

I think i figured out whats wrong. The cable is not in place and is actually over the hole place holder. Here's a pic of what im talking about.

This is the left side because its easy to see what im talking about.
The right side has a opening where the red circle is. The green is where the cable is suppose to go through. The cable end actually went through the red part and now is stuck near the end of the cable out on the shifter.

I tried taking it out but it was very differcult. Is there a way to remove the cap or open it and take it out?

So in the end there way nothing wrong with the shifter, just the cable is out of place.

That would explain everything :D

Hehe yep! But thanks everyone for their input!

Anyways, this is a royal pain in the arse to take out. I tried every position and it still wont budge! Would a LBS know how to take it out or will be like me and get frustrated to the point where you want to smash the shifter? Arggg

Oh man... I saw this happen once when I worked at a LBS. The mechanic (OK... it was me) had a brain fart and did the same.

You need to wind the shifter to make that opening bigger. Then, while pushing on the cable and working with a small screwdriver or nail or something, try to coax the cable end out.

You might have success with small needlenose pliers too. The cable end is soft enough that you may also be able to crush it with the pliers enough to make it fit. Of course, the cable is garbage after that.

I'd exhaust all options before taking the shifter apart.

Ok UPDATE:

I think i figured out whats wrong. The cable is not in place and is actually over the hole place holder. Here's a pic of what im talking about.

This is the left side because its easy to see what im talking about.
The right side has a opening where the red circle is. The green is where the cable is suppose to go through. The cable end actually went through the red part and now is stuck near the end of the cable out on the shifter.

I tried taking it out but it was very differcult. Is there a way to remove the cap or open it and take it out?

So in the end there way nothing wrong with the shifter, just the cable is out of place.
Sure,you can take it apart,but likely won't be able to get it back togther right with out the instructions. Been there.Have instructions.

Ok stop everything!!! This is a VERY easy situation to fix, and just happened to me on a brand new Specialized about a month ago. I should have thought of this.

Is the head of the cable at all visible? Cycle through the gears, find which position gives you the best access. Undo the cable at the derailleur and push the cable out as much as you can. It should roll up and over the cradle if you have the cradle in a good position to allow it. I had to coax it out with a VERY thin screwdriver and a very thin needlenose pliers... this isn't hard job at all, the main thing that works is feeding the cable out from the derailleur side. Next time, when you put the cable in be careful to keep it tensioned through the installation process. This happens quite a bit actually so don't feel bad about it or anything.

Ok i FINALLY got it working!!
I didnt have any thin screwdrivers so I used a dart instead.
I never had STI shifters before so I just stuck the cable in when it was in shift so it didnt match the hole. Boy that was a hard learned lesson. I had to make the hole alittle bigger so I can pop the cable back out. But im happy to say that everything shifts perfectly! Im going to go out and buy some new cables/housing and some ferrules tommorrow and im going to be riding again!
Thanks everyone!

I did the same thing too. I took a medium gauge paper clip and bent the very end it into a hook. I slipped that in and around the cable and pulled the cable head back out. Glad you got it working!