Road Cycling - Some bikers are to intense on the road.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040924/news_lz1s24bikepth.html

Apparently this Thursday crew think Fiesta Island is their personal race track. Crazy stuff.

Wow, that is crazy.

I've seen that pack mentality in cyclists. It's a shame, really, because it gives all cyclists a bad rap.

ok, am i bad for saying that i would like to do some riding there? too bad for the runners, that is a shame (and i'm not being sarcastic), but the cycling sounds terrific!

It sounds to me like the runner was partially to blame too since she was running with traffic and not against it? I do agree that the cyclist should have yielded or manuevered to avoid a collision. It is up to the faster vehicle to overtake safely. I'm not a runner myself but I think that showing disregard for the rights and safety of runners by cylists makes them no better than the motorists we cyclists chastise for doing the same thing.. perhaps even worse because they did not draw upon lessons they should have already known from being in the same situation.

It sounds to me like the runner was partially to blame too since she was running with traffic and not against it?

Here is Mpls, MN we are working on the trail issue of walkers runners, skaters and riders and direction of travel. Due to a accident and lawsuit The City of Mpls has now striped all trails to show a walking running lane so that this doesn’t happen. But as you leave Mpls to the suburbs and if it is a combination trail everyone goes in the same direction. Never does anyone walk, run skate against traffic. Due to the issue of if you call “on your left” and people are not going the same direction mass chaos erupts.

More work needs to be done.

Cheers

The way I read it, this happened on a lightly traveled one way road. So both are to blame. You would think an experienced runner would go against traffic. Anyone familiar with Fiesta Island?

The leaders of the group ride should have called out "On your left" to the runner so sh new they were comming. Then the leaders should have moved to the left while signaling to the riders behind to do the same. I could see it if there was a truck passing the cyclist but other than that they could have given room to a runner. Even if the runner was had been going against traffic I doubt she could have dived out of the way in time and she shouldn't have to. Group rides are fun and fast rides are great for training but we all have to share the road. It's silly riders would be more likely to point out glass in the road than other people.

I ride fiesta island occasionally, and yes I do see some VERY inconsiderate cyclists out there.

For exactly the reasons stated in the article(light traffic, no stop lights/signs etc.) alot of racers train there. There have been a few times where I have witnessed near collisions between cyclists and runners. Most of the time the cyclist is to blame, one close call I witnessed was when a jogger was on the far left side of the lane about 3 inches from the side of the road. No cars in sight, cyclist had plenty of room to pass but instead he chose to pass within, what looked like, 4 inches of the jogger.

I have ran the island many times. I usually go with traffic and stay on the left side of the road. There is a white line and pavement to the left of the white line that is adequate to run on. Terrain is to rough to run of the road like the cyclist who hit Tamara claimed she should have been doing.
There is a sign at the entrance to the island that states this is a shared roadway with bicycles, pedestrians, etc.

Bottom line is that planners really need to accept the fact that a single paved surface can't be shared by runners, rollerbladers, cyclists, and walkers. Space and/or funds are at a premium everywhere, but this never works no matter how many places its been tried.

Cyclists like Fiesta Island because it is a dead flat loop with little or no traffic. Local bike clubs run time trials there. The whole point is to go fast. It would be a shame if a few self-centered boneheads force the city to shut down the island for other training cyclists.

When trails/roadways are mixed use, pedestrians have the right of way over bikes. Period. Everyone has an obligation to share the road, but it is always the responsibility of faster traffic to avoid slamming into slower traffic.

Bottom line is that planners really need to accept the fact that a single paved surface can't be shared by runners, rollerbladers, cyclists, and walkers. Space and/or funds are at a premium everywhere, but this never works no matter how many places its been tried.

Have you ever ridden the W&OD or the other major paths in the DC area? Over 100 miles of mixed use trial with few problems between bikers, bladers and walkers. The key is that the paths are so well used by everyone that it's pretty obvious that it they are not the place for aerobars or speedwork. I think there is a genuine problem on Fiesta Island but I wouldn't generalize that to all other mixed use paths.

i ride the fiesta loop quite abit but i have to say i've never seen close calls between runners and cyclists. i do see alot of close calls between cars and cyclists. since there is no parking area or sidewalk for motorists to park they are forced to park on the sand and there is alway some yahoo thinking that its a good idea to peal out in the sand and haul a$$ onto the road. just last week i was nearly hit by some idiot doing just that i was doing my loop and going around 20mph when i hear a grumbling i turn my head to look what was going on and i see a cloud of dust and a big mint green full sized truck pull out of the sand get on the road 10-15 feet in front of me.

Yeah I have seen a few close vehicle and cycle encounters. I have also seen packs of riders take the whole road and not pull off to the side with vehicles behind them.
The worst though is when you are going down the long southwest straight adjacent to the dirt parking lot. I have had people cut donuts in the dirt just to blow dirt all over you. Carries right over the road with the northwest winds. Nothing like a good ol dirt sandwhich.

i've never done Fiesta (though i'd like to try one day) so I can't comment on the conditions, but just an observation from what I generally see...most times when i yell "On your left!" riders and runners typically acknowledge me so it's pretty safe going around them. There have been countless times, though, when i have yelled "on your left" multiple times w/o acknowledgement and i cautiously pass on their left. Next thing i know there's a cyclist pacing right next to me yelling expelatives and how inconsiderate i am, or a runner yelling at me calling me an ******* or what not.

the point of this is, there's always 2 sides to a story. maybe the cyclist that hit her yelled at her but she didn't hear him/her...i just don't like reading one sided news stories...

melloboy

"the point of this is, there's always 2 sides to a story. maybe the cyclist that hit her yelled at her but she didn't hear him/her...i just don't like reading one sided news stories..."

Maybe one sided, but then the cyclist who hit her didn't stick around to tell his side - nor did he stop everything to see that the person he just seriously injured got medical attention. Can you imagine doing that? Do you know anyone who would do that? Pretty low behavior.

As for the "on your left" dilemma, I agree that it can be a real problem of damned if you do, damned if you don't, but that's not what happened here. As per the article -

"The Thursday cyclists ride in such tight, large packs that the rider who hit Lave might not have seen her until the last split second.

'Everyone was hugging the left-hand side of the road, barely missing her,' said Oya. 'Riders saw her and swung wide right. He just didn't see her quick enough, tried to get out of the way and hit her.'"

To me it sounds more like inattention on the part of the cyclist. Experienced runners keep to a smooth line - they don't randomly dart from side to side. Unless we assume that the runner was supposed to leap off the roadway at the approach of the pack, it seems that the cyclist was entirely at fault.

Are runners "supposed" to run against traffic?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040924/news_lz1s24bikepth.html

Apparently this Thursday crew think Fiesta Island is their personal race track. Crazy stuff.

Curious. The complaints runners in this story have about some cyclists are exactly the same as the complaints cyclists have about some drivers. Drivers buzz cyclists, cyclists buzz runners--I can't waith to hear the story of runners who buzz walkers and walkers who buzz bench sitters. I suppose the bench sitters will just have to spend their time shouting profane insults.

22mph next to an [unpredictable ped]? Are they nuts? Those hot dogs are ruin'n it for everyone.

In fact it's already happening here. A key section of a trail between Redmond and Seattle now has speed limits and they'll gravel over one section to slow the budding Lance's down.

Drivers buzz cyclists, cyclists buzz runners--I can't waith to hear the story of runners who buzz walkers and walkers who buzz bench sitters.

Funny you should mention this. I'm a recent convert from running to cycling after a minor knee injury. About 8 years back a friend and fellow runner knocked a 60-year-old woman of the course of a local 5k. There was great outrage initially but the woman wasn’t physically injured, just a little shaken, and cooler heads prevailed.

Runners can be just as intense as cyclists, but the latter do bear greater responsibility given the speeds we can approach. In the end, I’ve learned to hate mixed use trails and much prefer the county roads here on the plains.

In fact it's already happening here. A key section of a trail between Redmond and Seattle now has speed limits and they'll gravel over one section to slow the budding Lance's down.


That part of the SRT has always had speed limits. I've seen cops out there gunning people too. The speed limit drops from the already low 15MPH to 10MPH near Leary St. Parts of the Burke-Gilman near Kenmore and Sand Point have signs like these.

http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/albums/20040619-poker_ride/PICT0021.jpg

That part of the SRT has always had speed limits. I've seen cops out there gunning people too. The speed limit drops from the already low 15MPH to 10MPH near Leary St. Parts of the Burke-Gilman near Kenmore and Sand Point have signs like these.


Good to know. Last year, I was on this same stretch of road and saw the cops with hair driers (no wonder they don't have time to solve crimes). Haven't been on there since 10mph is too hard to maintain. Also too many peds with pets.

Sounds as if both were at fault. And jeesh...22 mph is not that fast. Any slower, you just as well not ride--at least for training purposes oft' times. But over 25 mph, it's a different story entirely. At 30 mph...well, I've a story below.

(The last pedestrian I hit was knocked out cold and carted off in an ambulance. The idiot blatantly ignored race marshalls and crossed right in front of the pack. I came up the little rise, turned the corner, and plowed directly into him. Never saw him until the very last tenth of a second. Ruined my Guerciotti. Put him in a hospital bed. I walked away without a scratch after flying over my handlebars and landing on my feet!)

(The last pedestrian I hit was knocked out cold and carted off in an ambulance.

How many pedestrians HAVE you hit?

How many pedestrians HAVE you hit?

Over 20+ years, three. One other ran from between parked cars. Another already in the road saw me coming and started acting like a squirrel, dancing back and forth all over the place. In both cases I took firm hold of the handlebars, lowered myself and center of gravity, pushed my body over the front of the bike, and plowed my shoulder into them. One went down, the other stayed upright. Both recognized they were fully at fault. I remained upright both times. (This came from lessons learned at winter training camps I attended in Florida many years ago with Dale and Wayne Stetina, Butch Oliver, and a couple of other seasoned pros. We would actually practice falling--and avoiding falling.)

Contrary to what Phil Liggett has been known to say about crashes in the peloton, I chose not to also "fall out of sympathy" for the pedestrians. :)