Commuting - AirZound improvement, sooo cool, I gotta share it!!!

Credit for the discovery goes to colleen c (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?181676-colleen-c). Perhaps this was common knowledge but new to us: she discovered that the AirZound airbottle was just a glorified soda bottle, same threading. She was also messing around with her solution so maybe she'll post some shots later, but here is my final product.

I had an empty 1.5L bottle in the office so I gave it a shot.

It was a bit tricky to unscrew the cap, they used some kind of adhesive or sealant. I wrapped the cap with old tube and gently unscrewed it with a wrench. There is a thin rubber seal inside, watch for that, don't lose it. These water and soda bottles are apparently rated at 80-100 psi or more. I wrapped it with a fiberglass reinforced packing tape to lower the chances of rupture or effects thereof :twitchy:

Keep in mind that some bottles are weaker than others, the one I had seemed thicker and harder than most.

I'm going to stuff it in my front pannier, this is too much of a monster to carry on the bike and sure to draw cops attention :eek: It's been holding 90psi for couple of hours now.

EDIT: That wasn't any sealant under the cap, it was just some glue to prevent the cap from being easily unscrewed: it wasn't distributed evenly and was hard, too hard to be a sealant, so the rubber seal is what keeps it sealed.

First test.

http://a-world.net/files/cycling/2010/09/AirZoundHack.jpg

After wrapping

http://a-world.net/files/cycling/2010/09/AirZoundHack2.jpg

Size comparison, it should give around 3x more capacity.

http://a-world.net/files/cycling/2010/09/AirZoundHack3.jpg

That is cool! Thanks to you and Colleen for the tip.

BTW, do you know if there is a replacement clamp for the Air Zound so that I can move it from bike to bike without having to move the clamp as well? Further to that, does anyone know if the little plastic detents on the clamp/horn wear out with constant removal and reinstallation? I don't want to leave it on the bike when parked outside.

I hope it works out for you - but you might have made something that will fail more catastophically, if it does. When reinforcing a pressure vessel, very heavy and thick materials are usually used.

That reinforcement might not be up to the task, and just make it strong enuf to be more dangerous. Kinda like schrapnel.

Just something to consider.

Yes, it might be fine; but, it might not!

FYI 2L soda bottles burst at about 160 PSI, at least when I tested them. However, at lower pressures they may burst easily if poked with something sharp or impacted, so I wouldn't run them much over 100.

I wouldn't worry about bursting much though. I've had bottles burst within a couple of feet of me a few times and PETE doesn't fragment, it just splits when it bursts. Your danger is to your eardrums and scaring the crap out of you if it blows, not really injury, though I suppose if it blew right next to your leg you might get a cut.

I will keep it at 80psi, I don't think that's too dangerous. Plus it'll be inside a pannier so I should be fine. 160psi? Oh wow, so I should be well within safe limits around 80psi.

I sure hate to be the driver that tries to cut you off. That's an earful of Airzound blast :D

That is cool! Thanks to you and Colleen for the tip.

BTW, do you know if there is a replacement clamp for the Air Zound so that I can move it from bike to bike without having to move the clamp as well? Further to that, does anyone know if the little plastic detents on the clamp/horn wear out with constant removal and reinstallation? I don't want to leave it on the bike when parked outside.

Oh yes, that's what I did too. Get the directly from the manufacturer: http://deltacycle.com/. And yes, they do wear out with time.

Adam

I sure hate to be the driver that tries to cut you off. That's an earful of Airzound blast :D

Actually, the handlebars are quite close to my ears too :) I wish I could mount it further towards the front of the bike.

Oh yes, that's what I did too. Get the directly from the manufacturer: http://deltacycle.com/. And yes, they do wear out with time.

Adam
Thanks... I figured you'd know where to find one. I wish MEC sold the extra clamps because I got the horn there for less than $20.

Actually, the handlebars are quite close to my ears too :) I wish I could mount it further towards the front of the bike.

You could always put it on the end of long stick pointed forward. :D

OK, many hours later and it's holding the pressure. I had very uneventful PM commute so I didn't use it a lot. It's still at around 80 psi.

I will keep it at 80psi, I don't think that's too dangerous. Plus it'll be inside a pannier so I should be fine. 160psi? Oh wow, so I should be well within safe limits around 80psi.

If I remember correctly, Coca-cola is carbonated with 3.7 volumes of CO2. (meaning every liter of coke has 3.7 liters of C02 disolved in it, at least until you open the bottle). That's pretty typical, though pepsi is higher. Looking at a handy chart published by Zahm & nagel (who make carbonation equipment, among other things) for the solubility of CO2 in water (soda is close enough to water to not make huge changes in the result), we find that 3.7 volumes of CO2 at 32 F has a gauge pressure of about 17psi. At 68 F, gauge pressure is 48 psi, and at 100F (which is as high as the chart goes), it's about 85 psi. Soda bottles are going to be exposed to temperatures of at least that (think about leaving one in trunk of a car in summer), so I doubt your outside of the expected safety range.

How much do you use your horn that you need that much volume? You must have a LOT of jerks on the road.
I top off my Airzound maybe once a week when I am topping up my tires.

Cool! If my mini pump doesn't have a gauge, how can I know when to stop pumping?
(Also, do they send you extra clamps for free or how much do they charge?)

Cool! If my mini pump doesn't have a gauge, how can I know when to stop pumping?
(Also, do they send you extra clamps for free or how much do they charge?)

IIRC the air inlet for the AirZound is a Schrader valve, so any Schrader-compatible tire pressure gauge will work.

FYI 2L soda bottles burst at about 160 PSI, at least when I tested them. However, at lower pressures they may burst easily if poked with something sharp or impacted, so I wouldn't run them much over 100.

Random naughty thoughts:

I wonder if the AirZound is appreciably louder at over 100 psi...? :innocent:

How hard would it be to jury-rig a manifold with several 2L bottles, each with its own valve to hold in the pressure... so that I can shoot the bottles with an air rifle? :D

How much do you use your horn that you need that much volume? You must have a LOT of jerks on the road.
I top off my Airzound maybe once a week when I am topping up my tires.

This is NYC: people walk around like zombies and bells don't do squat. I can use up my regular AirZound bottle during a single morning commute. I have to top off at work every day before going home. Also, this is the only thing that works when you're getting hooked by a car. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-pq7CXFGA) But there are times, like yesterday afternoon that I hardly use it. Mornings are the worst. I started leaving earlier to avoid the mobs of unconscious pedestrians. I would not be able to ride closer to 9 am. It's surreal: people would see oncoming bus, look straight at it and step right in front of it as if the bus didn't exist. Forget bikes... Pedestrians in NYC are horrible.


Cool! If my mini pump doesn't have a gauge, how can I know when to stop pumping?
(Also, do they send you extra clamps for free or how much do they charge?)

I've been using pumps with gauges for years so I can't really give you a good advice here. You need to order clamps from http://deltacycle.com/.


IIRC the air inlet for the AirZound is a Schrader valve, so any Schrader-compatible tire pressure gauge will work.

Correct. It's a Schrader valve.


Random naughty thoughts:

I wonder if the AirZound is appreciably louder at over 100 psi...? :innocent:

How hard would it be to jury-rig a manifold with several 2L bottles, each with its own valve to hold in the pressure... so that I can shoot the bottles with an air rifle? :D

I don't want to go higher than 90psi, not sure if the seals and tubing can take that. You mean to pop the bottles with an air gun? LOL, I have no idea.

Wow and they say GA is not bike friendly. I think I used my horn once last week. I do not recall using it all this week.

Plastic bottles made for carbonated drinks are pressure vessels. Bottles for water and tea are not. I learned this from homebrewing literature and used to bottle ale in 20 oz pet bottles.

Not a bad improvement.

Since you are experimenting... here's an idea I have thought of, but have not tested. It is based on Boyle's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle%27s_law).

I have often thought one of the drawbacks of Airzounds was the fact that you can't tell if you are low on pressure... at a glance.

Well it seems to me that a small balloon, just slightly inflated and stuck inside the pressure vessel would show you if you are low on "honk pressure."

It works like this... the small "indicator balloon" will have a certain amount of internal pressure to inflate it (and I only mean enough inflation to make it into a small loose balloon), this would be only a couple of PSI over atmospheric pressure... so say 17 PSIG. That balloon inside the pressure vessel would be subjected to say 80PSIG when there is enough air to provide good honks. Under that sort of pressure, the balloon would collapse (Boyle's law), and look quite deflated. But, when the pressure of the "tank" got low, then the balloon would appear larger, and thus become a visual indicator that you are low on "honking gas."

You could tell at a glance... oops outta air, gotta fill it up again!

You would have to test this a bit to see what the right pressure it would take to get a balloon to decently inflate/deflate at suitable pressures to give a good indication.

Seems like a simple solution.

Of course the whole idea can be easily tested in any pressure chamber... put a loosely inflated balloon (obviously stick the balloon into the bottle first and then inflate the balloon a bit to get some size, but not big enough to fill the bottle) and then pressurize the chamber (large soda bottle) and watch the balloon deflate. Release pressure from the large soda bottle and watch the balloon reinflate. Bingo!

I just have not gotten around to trying it yet. Go for it!

How hard would it be to jury-rig a manifold with several 2L bottles, each with its own valve to hold in the pressure... so that I can shoot the bottles with an air rifle? :D

I don't think it will be that hard. Probably drill a hole on a soda bottle cap and a schrader valve from some old tire tube slip it in and silicon/glue it to the cap? But that would be a waste of a good bottle. More fun if you invest that bottle for water bottle rocket. Personally I never tried that but I always wanted too and I read the world record was 2000+ feet altitude and had a camera on it!

As for my Airzound setup, I decided to use a 1.0 L bottle for my setup. I thought the fiberglass tape for reinforcement was a great idea. I wrapped my bottle and was in the process of taking Velcro and wrapping that around my bottle, but then it will take a lot of Velcro. Beside it was too bulky of a look and I don't think it was s good idea to have it visible on a train. So today I will go to REI to look for some 1 liter bottle sleeve jacket to slip it inside then attach it to the bottom of my top tube. So far, my bottle held air overnight much better than my original bottle did. I think my OEM bottle was leakingvery slow at the cap.

Plastic bottles made for carbonated drinks are pressure vessels. Bottles for water and tea are not. I learned this from homebrewing literature and used to bottle ale in 20 oz pet bottles.

I thought about that too, but soda bottles don't come in size and shape I wanted. A 2L soda bottle is too much and 1L is too little.

Not a bad improvement.

Since you are experimenting... here's an idea I have thought of, but have not tested. It is based on Boyle's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle%27s_law).


Cool idea! Although, since I wrapped the bottle with tape and carry it in a pannier, that won't help. I thought about fitting a gauge somewhere, but that would be way too much crap on the handlebars - I need to draw a line somewhere :D Unless I can find something really small, the thin, tubular type like on early Morphs.

Congrats Adam for your invention!!! Looks pretty cool.

Excuse my ignorance, I have always looked at the Airzound horn, but haven't decided yet to get it, so I don't know to much about it. So why would changing the bottle be important. Can you put more air into a regular soda bottle. Or is the bottle the airzound horn comes with in some way inconvenient?
Thanks and congrats again!

It's a matter of capacity. According to Colleen the regular bottle holds enough air for about 10 seconds of constant blowing. This larger bottle should last at least 2x as long, I hope even more. I would need some time to really tell the difference since my yesterday and today commute rides were unusually uneventfull so I didn't get to use it much. With the stock bottle I'd use it up sometimes during a single morning commute: 3-4 longer blows and a few short honks, and not have enough air left for the last couple of zombies wandering in the bike lane.

It's a little over-the-top hack, but hey, people already question my sanity so be it.

Earlier version used a metal bottle [Ala Sigg] but of course thread is different, as I recall valve was not on the top. then.

Friend has one, It's on his Boat... toot of the horn gets the drawbridge opened to get to Lake WA from the Sound.

Congrats Adam for your invention!!! Looks pretty cool.

Excuse my ignorance, I have always looked at the Airzound horn, but haven't decided yet to get it, so I don't know to much about it. So why would changing the bottle be important. Can you put more air into a regular soda bottle. Or is the bottle the airzound horn comes with in some way inconvenient?
Thanks and congrats again!

I find the stock AirZound works quite well and the bottle has enough capacity for all my needs... I top off my tires about once a week and top off the AirZound about once a month, and it works fine. I don't lay on the horn, but use it as a warning when some motorist starts to move when they shouldn't. The darn thing catches attention fast... So I am a firm believer.

My only issue is that since I only check the pressure about once a month... it could be low and I don't realize it... hence my little "indicator" idea.

It's a matter of capacity. According to Colleen the regular bottle holds enough air for about 10 seconds of constant blowing. This larger bottle should last at least 2x as long, I hope even more. I would need some time to really tell the difference since my yesterday and today commute rides were unusually uneventfull so I didn't get to use it much. With the stock bottle I'd use it up sometimes during a single morning commute: 3-4 longer blows and a few short honks, and not have enough air left for the last couple of zombies wandering in the bike lane.

It's a little over-the-top hack, but hey, people already question my sanity so be it.

I filled the old bottle to 80 psi and then held the button horn and timed it until the sound was faint. It last about 10 seconds with the last 1-2 second softer but still loud enough to use. It surprisingly how little air pressure the Airzound needs to operate. In the cap that screw on to the bottle is a very small orifice.

I then took the 1L bottle and did the same and got 15 seconds of continuous blast. As for physical size difference, the 1L bottle looks about 50% larger than the original bottle. This lead me to estimate the original bottle to be anywhere from 500ml to 750ml capacity. The one thing I like about the larger bottle is not having to fill it as often. I have to fill mine at least every other day.

I filled the old bottle to 80 psi and then held the button horn and timed it until the sound was faint. It last about 10 seconds with the last 1-2 second softer but still loud enough to use. It surprisingly how little air pressure the Airzound needs to operate. In the cap that screw on to the bottle is a very small orifice.

I then took the 1L bottle and did the same and got 15 seconds of continuous blast. As for physical size difference, the 1L bottle looks about 50% larger than the original bottle. This lead me to estimate the original bottle to be anywhere from 500ml to 750ml capacity. The one thing I like about the larger bottle is not having to fill it as often. I have to fill mine at least every other day.

Whoa... rough area! That's a lot of close calls!

Whoa... rough area! That's a lot of close calls!
Well sort of and sort of not. In my neighbor by the shopping mall, there are two cars that runs the stop sign at 4:30 in the morning. It almost a blind intersection. I usually slow down and give a ling toot or two with a flash of helmet light when I get there. It must be working cause those same two cars having been slowing down when crossing through.

Near work, two semi major intersection have flashing red light for the cross traffic. There is also this one car I can bet my life on that will treat it like a green light. Several time I crossed half way through and saw him approaching and I give him several long toot just to let him know of my awareness. Beside those and along the fact that I had a small leak which drain my tank like 15-20 psi a day was the reason I started to look into a bigger tank. If I have fixed the leak, that would have helped but then when I found out I can use a bigger bottle was when it got me wondering..,,...... :)

Edit: oh yes, I also give a goodbye blast or two to the shop boys when I leave work. In return I get a whistle or two :D

Last night I just did my setup with a slightly larger bottle. I used a 1 liter (http://www.bikeforums.net/asset.php?fid=157163&uid=181676&d=1283627533) bottle and wrapped it with fiber glass tape. Then I used some Gorilla tape just for extra reinforcement since I don't want to take a chance with this popping on me in the train. Overall, I think it is more sturdy than the original bottle from Airzound.

I found an old small Outdoor Product bottle sleeve (http://www.rei.com/product/795587) but had to buy one more since my bottle was longer than the sleeve and I also wanted to completely cover it. After all was done, here it is. I think it look like a thermos bottle in a sleeve. I know it does not get that cold here and the problemm of Airzound not sounding right is minium, but I wonder if that sleeve might insulated the bottle from the cold temperature in the winter time?

I really had no problems with AZ in cold weather, when my water froze solid after 4-5 miles, but I guess any extra insulation may help a little. Although, I doubt the difference would be huge.

One thing I would be afraid of is the temp difference. Don't pump the AZ outside in freezing weather. I pumped my road tires once while outside in cold weather to 120psi, mid 30s or so. Then loaded the bike inside the car after the ride and turned the heat on. One tube exploded within 15-20 minutes! Scared the crap out of me! I nearly drove off of the highway and my ears were ringing for hours. I was too tired to think clearly, to lower the pressure in the other tube, so it exploded later at home :( I have no idea how to calculate this but the air pressure must have gone up way over 180psi for a tube to pop like that, and the difference in temps was about 45-50F.

More fun if you invest that bottle for water bottle rocket. Personally I never tried that but I always wanted too and I read the world record was 2000+ feet altitude and had a camera on it!
Yes, the bottle used for that attempt was the result of much ( often very loud ) experimentation. They were running at something like 2,000 PSI! The final design involved very careful wrapping with much carbon fibre reinforcement.

[QUOTE=AdamDZ;11404037]You need to order clamps from http://deltacycle.com/.

The clamp costs $5 each. Isn't that too much?? Just the clamp?? 4 or 5 clamps=a new horn!! I think that instead of improving their mounting clamp, they are taking advantage of their fault to make money! :mad:

Those of you above who are trying to invent new bottle system, please invent a good mounting clamp. ;)

I really had no problems with AZ in cold weather, when my water froze solid after 4-5 miles, but I guess any extra insulation may help a little. Although, I doubt the difference would be huge.

One thing I would be afraid of is the temp difference. Don't pump the AZ outside in freezing weather. I pumped my road tires once while outside in cold weather to 120psi, mid 30s or so. Then loaded the bike inside the car after the ride and turned the heat on. One tube exploded within 15-20 minutes! Scared the crap out of me! I nearly drove off of the highway and my ears were ringing for hours. I was too tired to think clearly, to lower the pressure in the other tube, so it exploded later at home :( I have no idea how to calculate this but the air pressure must have gone up way over 180psi for a tube to pop like that, and the difference in temps was about 45-50F.
I'm sorry for your misfortune, AdamDZ, but that is one of the funniest things I've ever read on these forums. I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk when I read it or it would have come shooting out of my nose... especially during the part about the second blowout! Thanks for the laughs. :) :D:roflmao2::roflmao:

:lol:

Thanks Adam and Colleen,

I've been bike commuting for ~4-5 months now. I was constantly getting annoyed with the walkers that would be right in the middle of the urban trail I commute on. I finally got a bell a couple weeks ago and thought my problem would be solved. It helped, but it's far from a solution. Often the pedestrians have earphones in, so they can't hear my little bell. (I don't criticize them for that, I ride with headphones too) Sometimes they are just brain dead though. I can see there is nothing in their ears, I hit the bell repeatedly, yet they don't move. I've been thinking about what I can get that is louder. You guys just sold another AirZound I think. :)

Since I don't even use my bell every commute, I won't be replacing the bottle right away ;)

Delta's site isn't that great though, so I'd like to ask some questions if you don't mind...

It looks like you mount the horn to your handle bars and then there is a tube that runs to the bottle. Is this right? Do people normally put the bottle in the bottle cage on the bike?

I really had no problems with AZ in cold weather, when my water froze solid after 4-5 miles, but I guess any extra insulation may help a little. Although, I doubt the difference would be huge.

One thing I would be afraid of is the temp difference. Don't pump the AZ outside in freezing weather. I pumped my road tires once while outside in cold weather to 120psi, mid 30s or so. Then loaded the bike inside the car after the ride and turned the heat on. One tube exploded within 15-20 minutes! Scared the crap out of me! I nearly drove off of the highway and my ears were ringing for hours. I was too tired to think clearly, to lower the pressure in the other tube, so it exploded later at home :( I have no idea how to calculate this but the air pressure must have gone up way over 180psi for a tube to pop like that, and the difference in temps was about 45-50F.
T1 / p1 = T2 / p2
35F ~= 275K, 80F ~= 300K
275K / 120psi = 300K / p2
p2 = 131psi

FYI 2L soda bottles burst at about 160 PSI, at least when I tested them. However, at lower pressures they may burst easily if poked with something sharp or impacted, so I wouldn't run them much over 100.

I wouldn't worry about bursting much though. I've had bottles burst within a couple of feet of me a few times and PETE doesn't fragment, it just splits when it bursts. Your fun.danger is to your eardrums and scaring the crap out of you if it blows, not really injury, though I suppose if it blew right next to your leg you might get a cut.
This is what I was thinking, although an air bomb going off between your legs It might scare you into the oncoming car behind you. Wouldnt that be dandy?

Not a bad improvement.

Since you are experimenting... here's an idea I have thought of, but have not tested. It is based on Boyle's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle%27s_law).

I have often thought one of the drawbacks of Airzounds was the fact that you can't tell if you are low on pressure... at a glance.

Well it seems to me that a small balloon, just slightly inflated and stuck inside the pressure vessel would show you if you are low on "honk pressure."

It works like this... the small "indicator balloon" will have a certain amount of internal pressure to inflate it (and I only mean enough inflation to make it into a small loose balloon), this would be only a couple of PSI over atmospheric pressure... so say 17 PSIG. That balloon inside the pressure vessel would be subjected to say 80PSIG when there is enough air to provide good honks. Under that sort of pressure, the balloon would collapse (Boyle's law), and look quite deflated. But, when the pressure of the "tank" got low, then the balloon would appear larger, and thus become a visual indicator that you are low on "honking gas."

You could tell at a glance... oops outta air, gotta fill it up again!

You would have to test this a bit to see what the right pressure it would take to get a balloon to decently inflate/deflate at suitable pressures to give a good indication.

Seems like a simple solution.

Of course the whole idea can be easily tested in any pressure chamber... put a loosely inflated balloon (obviously stick the balloon into the bottle first and then inflate the balloon a bit to get some size, but not big enough to fill the bottle) and then pressurize the chamber (large soda bottle) and watch the balloon deflate. Release pressure from the large soda bottle and watch the balloon reinflate. Bingo!

I just have not gotten around to trying it yet. Go for it!
Man, I love it! THAT is the value of an education, right there folks. To heck with all that "finding yourself," business..
Thanks! :)

I must get me an AirZounds. It would be fun just to blast it and watch people's reaction.

My original Air Zound bottle developed a split in the seam when I fell over at a stop. I replaced it with a 20 oz Coca Cola bottle.

But now the valve stem is not working and will not depress to allow it to work correctly. Can that be replaced without replacing the entire horn? I thought you could remove just the valve stem and replace it, similar to what can be done with a regular schrader valve on a tube or tire.

My original Air Zound bottle developed a split in the seam when I fell over at a stop. I replaced it with a 20 oz Coca Cola bottle.

But now the valve stem is not working and will not depress to allow it to work correctly. Can that be replaced without replacing the entire horn? I thought you could remove just the valve stem and replace it, similar to what can be done with a regular schrader valve on a tube or tire.

There is a FAQ in the Delta Airzound site. They have some tips dealing with the valve. Hope this helps.

http://deltacycle.com/pdfs/AirZoundFAQs.pdf

It looks like you mount the horn to your handle bars and then there is a tube that runs to the bottle. Is this right? Do people normally put the bottle in the bottle cage on the bike?

Yes, the bottle can slip into a bottle holder. The mounting is more or less a personal preference. They do provide some zip ties and Velcro which you can also mount it under the top tube if you prefer.

I thought about that too, but soda bottles don't come in size and shape I wanted. A 2L soda bottle is too much and 1L is too little.

In europe the 1.5 litre bottle is easy to find... maybe if you know someone who jaunts across the pond? :)

This is what I was thinking, although an air bomb going off between your legs It might scare you into the oncoming car behind you. Wouldnt that be dandy?

I pumped up the stock bottle to 80psi. I wouldn't worry about it exploding. I never heard about that happening.


T1 / p1 = T2 / p2
35F ~= 275K, 80F ~= 300K
275K / 120psi = 300K / p2
p2 = 131psi

Thanks! I can sleep better now :D


In europe the 1.5 litre bottle is easy to find... maybe if you know someone who jaunts across the pond? :)

Yeah, I remember that from my visits to Poland. Although, the 1.5l water bottle seems to be working all right so far.

Don't have to go to Euroland to find a 1.5L soda bottle.

The popular Mexican soda brand Jarritos is available in the US in 1.5L bottles. The bottle is a little heavier gauge than a standard 2L bottle.

FWIW, the soda inside isn't too bad either. My kids like the orange flavor. Supposedly naturally flavored, and sweetened with real sugar.

I just bought a new airzound, and the bottle is slimmer and taller than the previous version. This may be better than the fatter one. For a second I misread the logo "DELTA" as "DEATH", and thought they mean whoever hears the horn will be dead :eek:--I thought that's very rude of them :twitchy:

Combine a 1.5 liter bottle with one of these for easy storage: http://www.topeak.com/products/Bottle-Cages/ModulaCageXL