Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - "Hey guy on the bike.....you need to stop running stop signs"

Went for a latenight ride yesterday--forgot about the whole drunk driving/holiday factor until a few miles in, then just became a touch more cognizant for the rest of the ride. Saw p-lenty of dudes pulled over all over the city (ride was a 13-mile loop through downtown/university etc. type areas). Anyway, I went through one stretch that has 4 way stops every block just west of downtown by the courthouse. I was keeping good pace with the pizza delivery car adjacent to me by slowing down to check for anything oncoming, then going through if the coast was clear (it was for every block, maybe 6 in a row), while she came to a stop at each one, more or less. After this stretch, as I was waiting at a red light, this voice calls out from the parking lot across the way, offering me the sage advice from the title of this thread, and also that "I've nearly hit a lot of bikers back there who blow through stop signs."

A few thoughts ran through my mind--

1, it's amazing to me that people don't realize how much more aware of the environment it is possible to be while on a bike. Unless there's a near-invisible object crossing through an intersection (a bullet, Superman, many bugs), I trust that I will detect some visible movement and stop. And a car? Kinda tough to miss, especially if it's barreling through a residential area with no regard for stop signs.

2, this is yet another instance of a motorist lumping all cyclists into some sort of imaginary club, group, society, whatever. I can only control my own actions, not those of all cyclists. Can you control the rampant bad driving I witness daily? Do I ask you to, oh pizza delivery girl? It's a strange phenomenon, drivers unloading their frustrations with all illegal cyclist behavior on a single cyclist who blows a stop sign. There is no "you guys," "bikers," etc. There is only the person that you are nervously trying to pass without hitting, sometimes quite dangerously. He might or might not obey traffic laws. I think the same thing about cars that I see blowing lights or stop signs. Some ******, probably drunk (if it's past 12 or 1, for sure). I never once think about blaming this person for all the insanely bad driving I witness constantly.

3. Was she saying that she nearly hits bikers who cross intersections right in front of her, or those adjacent to her? Due to thought #1, I find it hard to believe that a cyclist would cross directly in front of a car that is already stopped at a 4-way stop. But I guess anything is possible, and yes, those cyclists are putting themselves in great danger and of course pissing people off in the process. So is anyone with a death wish.

I've come up with a ready-made reply for these situations. Whenever anyone yells that I blew a stop sign, or a red light with no traffic, my only response is, "You're right." It seems the most appropriate thing to say, if there's a need to say anything at all.

Hope you all had a great Sunday night and are enjoying the holiday.

You are part of the bad kharma bestowed on us every day!

No he/she's not. Sounds like a perfectly aware rider riding a bicycle in its appropriate manner (and not the manner car drivers would like us to, which is based on their own jealousy: they too would like to run stop signs when the coast is clear). However, if the OP is riding a bent, as the username suggests, I think the claims of road awareness are greatly exaggerated. Much harder to see and be seen down there than on a bicycle.

I started running 4 ways after this:

Stopped at a four way. I was the last to arrive.
Three drivers in 4 wheelers were stopped chatting on cell phones.

I looked at each one, nothing happened.
Rode on through.

They were still there after I cleared the intersection.

What is really bad is when you see some schmuck riding his crappy k-mart bike cruising through an intersection with cars stopped at all 4 corners... (Generalization, I've seen it before, and I knew the person who did it)

I think a lot of people do what you do, if the coast is obviously clear, why unclip and stop, only to have to push back up to speed seconds later.

Although I usually slow to a speed where I am going very slow but still stable enough to not have to put a foot down.

Delivery drivers gain a lot of knowledge about the roads from driving around for hours on end every night. The driver has surely encountered many more cyclists from sheer mileage of being behind-the-wheel on the job.

They have a tendency to pick up on the nuances of driving habits, much like on a bike. The way drivers slightly drift in the lane for a right turn. You can tell if someone will roll a stop by the way they brake up to apex of the sign. Etc... Same goes for cyclists, which she has managed to lump in to one group.

Granted, it may have been misplaced advice but it is one of the more pleasant venting-episodes you could have encountered.

When I'm driving it really sucks having a biker on my right because I have no idea what to do when I approach a stop sign with the intent on turning right. Has he seen my turn signal? Is he going to stop behind me? Fly by me on the right and through the stop sign? Am I going to ****ing kill him? And why do I have to waste so much of my time watching out for people who don't obey the law?

Stop at stop signs.

wear a helmet :)

When I'm driving it really sucks having a biker on my right because I have no idea what to do when I approach a stop sign with the intent on turning right. Has he seen my turn signal? Is he going to stop behind me? Fly by me on the right and through the stop sign? Am I going to ****ing kill him? And why do I have to waste so much of my time watching out for people who don't obey the law?

Stop at stop signs.

You are the driver that puts on the turn signal after you Begin turning?

Sounds like you need to get over yourself.

Wow, you can figure out what types of people will be the type of people to lump you into a catagory incorrectly based on their false assumptions of your intelligence and experience. Those silly cagers, they judge a book by its cover.

When I'm driving it really sucks having a biker on my right because I have no idea what to do when I approach a stop sign with the intent on turning right. Has he seen my turn signal? Is he going to stop behind me? Fly by me on the right and through the stop sign? Am I going to ****ing kill him? And why do I have to waste so much of my time watching out for people who don't obey the law?

Stop at stop signs.

Don't filter a cyclist while approaching a stop sign.

That was me yelling at you. When you annoy someone because of your disregard for the law, that person is going to take out their anger on one of us.
Whenever I see someone riding in downtown Austin at night without a helmet or lights, I just pray that they live long enough to realize they are not really smarter than the rest of us.

That was me yelling at you. When you annoy someone because of your disregard for the law, that person is going to take out their anger on one of us.
Whenever I see someone riding in downtown Austin at night without a helmet or lights, I just pray that they live long enough to realize they are not really smarter than the rest of us.

you should totally go check out the helmet thread! ^_^

You are the driver that puts on the turn signal after you Begin turning?

I don't understand how anything I wrote could possibly lead you to believe that.

When I'm driving it really sucks having a biker on my right because I have no idea what to do when I approach a stop sign with the intent on turning right. Has he seen my turn signal? Is he going to stop behind me? Fly by me on the right and through the stop sign? Am I going to ****ing kill him? And why do I have to waste so much of my time watching out for people who don't obey the law?

Stop at stop signs.

The cyclist should take the lane and stop behind your car, then wait for you to make your turn. Whenever I'm approaching a stop sign or stop light and cars are stopping too, I take the lane

You are the driver that puts on the turn signal after you Begin turning?

motoB said exactly the opposite.

That was me yelling at you. When you annoy someone because of your disregard for the law, that person is going to take out their anger on one of us.
Whenever I see someone riding in downtown Austin at night without a helmet or lights, I just pray that they live long enough to realize they are not really smarter than the rest of us.

People do all kinds of great things that I'm not responsible for. It is his/her choice whether to "take out their anger" on something or someone. People are not automatons such that one biker's action _causes_ a driver to get annoyed, which then again _causes_ that driver to take out his/her anger on someone else. When a driver (or anyone) takes out their anger on another person, that driver is making a choice to do so. Though difficult, it is possible to choose not to do this. Realizing that one biker's behavior is not at all related to other bikers' behavior is a good first step.

You think people who ride without a helmet or lights through downtown Austin think they are smarter than the rest of us? Why?

Yield at stop signs. Slow down even when you have right-of-way. Allow drivers to see that you are alert to the rules but modifying them for your mode of transportation.

just imagine, the same percentile amount of bad drivers exists as bad cyclists... and they all run stop signs without even looking.

just imagine, the same percentile amount of bad drivers exists as bad cyclists... and they all run stop signs without even looking.

I hardly ever see anyone make complete stops, car or bike, especially where I live has a stop sign at just about every street corner. Let's go to Mexico, there are no stop signs

I hardly ever see anyone make complete stops, car or bike, especially where I live has a stop sign at just about every street corner. Let's go to Mexico, there are no stop signs

heck, many drivers around here don't even obey yield signs. Sure, there are 6 lanes total, but you're still facing a yield sign, and that means stop until all lanes are clear.

One of these days, with a car, I'll lane change into the right lane at a point where I know drivers don't obey yield signs, just to show them it's a yield point.

If ALL vehicles would obey laws, and traffic controls, it would be better for all of us.

If you don't like the laws, get them changed - but, until then, make it easier on the rest of us.

You can not justify inappropriate behavior.

People do all kinds of great things that I'm not responsible for. It is his/her choice whether to "take out their anger" on something or someone. People are not automatons such that one biker's action _causes_ a driver to get annoyed, which then again _causes_ that driver to take out his/her anger on someone else. When a driver (or anyone) takes out their anger on another person, that driver is making a choice to do so. Though difficult, it is possible to choose not to do this. Realizing that one biker's behavior is not at all related to other bikers' behavior is a good first step.

You think people who ride without a helmet or lights through downtown Austin think they are smarter than the rest of us? Why?

Some day you will be able to figure it out. In the meantime I am going to teach a pig to sing.

Some day you will be able to figure it out. In the meantime I am going to teach a pig to sing.

Start on this one:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Birth%20Place%20of%20Texas%20Ride/BirthPlaceofTexasRideApril2010134.jpg

If ALL vehicles would obey laws, and traffic controls, it would be better for all of us.

If you don't like the laws, get them changed - but, until then, make it easier on the rest of us.

You can not justify inappropriate behavior.

You're right.

I would love to blow stop signs, but unfortunately I don't trust myself because I'm oftentimes riding after midnight. In a college town. Ughhhhhh such a drag

Sorry dude, but you're part of the problem. Stop running stop signs and making cyclists look like dicks. I hope you get a whopping ticket.

If we want the respect that cars get on the road, then we should also follow the same rules.

An accident (or simply being startled) happens when something unexpected happens. If we behave predictably then motorists won't be freaked out. Run stop signs, weave through traffic, ride towards them, cut them off, etc...and motorists will not like us.

Being startled is not a fun experience. Just today a skater was bombing down a small steep hill and the girl with whom I was riding and the car in front of us both assumed he was going to skate right into traffic having so much speed. He pulled a cool move and stopped in time, but the driver of the car in front of us locked up the brakes causing us AND the third car behind us to do the same. We were all pretty pissed and the girl with whom I was riding was really shaken up with adrenalin for a while. We were all cursing the skater to holy hell.

...and get this. There were at least 3 possible outcomes to that skater's behavior:

A) The skater stops in time and all cars stop in time. No harm done. Drivers are shaken up a bit and really pissed off.

B) The skater stops in time but one of the cars doesn't. Fender bender drama.

C) The skater doesn't stop in time and is struck by the first car. Major drama.


All of which could have easily been avoided by the actions of only one person.

Cyclists should not be lumped together, and you may not have been in any danger, however, she was still right. You should behave like a car if youre riding amongst them.

Cyclists should not be lumped together, and you may not have been in any danger, however, she was still right. You should behave like a car if youre riding amongst them.

Motorists should not be lumped together because of a few/many hideous drivers.

Pedestrians should not be lumped together because of a few/many jaywalkers.

Etc.

As I've maintained throughout, I agree with you. That's why I said, and will continue to say, "You're right" when someone takes out their anger on me.

Anyway, the following blog post was the impetus for my even posting anything about this incident. Please give it a read. It does a far better job of explaining the situation than I did.....I found it convincing.

http://bostonbiker.org/2009/08/14/the-myth-of-the-law-breaking-cyclist/

Thanks,

Bent

Glad you lived to tell the story.

Motorists should not be lumped together because of a few/many hideous drivers.

Pedestrians should not be lumped together because of a few/many jaywalkers.

Etc.

As I've maintained throughout, I agree with you. That's why I said, and will continue to say, "You're right" when someone takes out their anger on me.

Anyway, the following blog post was the impetus for my even posting anything about this incident. Please give it a read. It does a far better job of explaining the situation than I did.....I found it convincing.

http://bostonbiker.org/2009/08/14/the-myth-of-the-law-breaking-cyclist/

Thanks,

Bent

i agree, all cyclists shouldn't be lumped together, especially those who dont obey proper road laws.

However, to many non-cycling drivers, we are all the same.

So i try to be a positive example for all cyclists by following proper road laws and stopping at stop lights/signs. i also do the whole hand signal (left or right) thing to let drivers know my turning intentions. im a nerd like that lol

Cyclists in major metropolitan areas will never be liked, let alone respected by drivers. Ever. Even if by some miraculous evolution ALL of them began following every single rule of the road to a 'T'. Drivers would still act aggressively to cyclists. Period.

I run stop signs.
Sometimes, i do it in front of cops.
They don't care.
One time, as I usually do, I stopped at a stop sign where there was a car already sitting, waiting to proceed. The driver yelled out his window "Why are you stopping?"
In my city, most drivers expect it.

I run stop signs.
You all should stop judging cyclists for doing things on their bicycle in their usual cycling environment, the particulars of which, none of you can accurately judge through the internet.

I run stop signs.

I run stop signs.

I can agree with crawdaddio. Not sure if cyclists will ever be respected in cities (at least Philadelphia), but I believe there is a certain acceptance, as in, most drivers deal with us on the road. Sometimes it gets really annoying though, because in Philly there are a few street lanes that are bus and bike only, a car will get behind me and start honking and yelling at me when it is the proper lane for me to ride in and the improper lane for him/her to ride in).

And I do not really care if cyclists run stop signs, sometimes I do at night(when I can see car lights from a distance) or the roadways are empty (early mornings). And anyway, if some cool bro wants to run a stop sign and get whacked by a car, his problem not mine.

i run stop signs when there is absolutely no car(s) at the intersection, but i still obey the stop sign and wait for my turn if there is one.

thats like asking, when you're walking, do you stop at the intersection and wait even though there is no car present?

as far as i know, pedestrians and cyclist do have the right a way.

a little off topic on my part when riding over the weekend:

i was riding in the residential streets with a my brother and couple of friends. we were at the most far right part of the lane in a straight line, and this ****** honks at us for no apparent reason. we come to a red light, and the passenger rolls down the window and says 'move over or we'll run you over dawg.' i responded back with 'we share the road'. he said 'we're bigger'.

core, bro.

i was riding in the residential streets with a my brother and couple of friends. we were at the most far right part of the lane in a straight line, and this ****** honks at us for no apparent reason. we come to a red light, and the passenger rolls down the window and says 'move over or we'll run you over dawg.' i responded back with 'we share the road'. he said 'we're bigger'.

That's when I would have fired my u-lock through the windshield and said "Maybe so, but I'm a total mother****er". :D

A co-worker who is new-ish to cycling was bragging about how he never stops for stop signs or red lights. I advised him to run every red light that he approaches....

One time, as I usually do, I stopped at a stop sign where there was a car already sitting, waiting to proceed. The driver yelled out his window "Why are you stopping?"
In my city, most drivers expect it.


Most drivers expect it. If I went through every stop sign on my route expecting most motorists to expect me to run the signs, I would be dead.

It is the motorist who does expect you to stop that will kill you.

I frequently arrive at a 4-way stop with cars waiting to the left and right, both with right of way. Often one of the cars waves me while the other car trundles through -as is their right-.

The 'friendly' motorist has just waved me to my death.

Worse, I have had motorists stop without a stop sign to let me pass when cars are coming through in the other direction at 40-50 mph.

Cyclists in major metropolitan areas will never be liked, let alone respected by drivers. Ever. Even if by some miraculous evolution ALL of them began following every single rule of the road to a 'T'. Drivers would still act aggressively to cyclists. Period.


i call bullsh!1T on this statement. ive lived in san francisco for a few years, oakland a few more, and while its true some drivers are A-holes and wil forever have a chip on their shoulder, there are plenty who are sympathetic/friendly with cyclists who follow proper road rules. Like ones that make room for you, or drive slowly when around you, or smile and/or wave when you stop at a sign like you are supposed to. Keep riding like an A-hole and you just solidify A-hole driver's misconceptions and generalizations about cyclists.

One time I was at a restaurant and the service was so bad, the manager told me I didn't have to pay. In my town, you don't have to pay if the service is bad. I run the check if it takes too long to get my food.:D

Cyclists in major metropolitan areas will never be liked, let alone respected by drivers. Ever. Even if by some miraculous evolution ALL of them began following every single rule of the road to a 'T'. Drivers would still act aggressively to cyclists. Period.

I run stop signs.
Sometimes, i do it in front of cops.
They don't care.
One time, as I usually do, I stopped at a stop sign where there was a car already sitting, waiting to proceed. The driver yelled out his window "Why are you stopping?"
In my city, most drivers expect it.

I run stop signs.
You all should stop judging cyclists for doing things on their bicycle in their usual cycling environment, the particulars of which, none of you can accurately judge through the internet.

I run stop signs.

This is bullsh*t. Sorry to be so blunt.

I'm a cyclist and a driver and I've lived, driven, and ridden in several major cities around the country (and some international). I think that most drivers don't have an opinion either way about cyclists...until a cyclist pulls a jack*ss move on them...like running stop signs like you do.

This is bullsh*t. Sorry to be so blunt.

I'm a cyclist and a driver and I've lived, driven, and ridden in several major cities around the country (and some international). I think that most drivers don't have an opinion either way about cyclists...until a cyclist pulls a jack*ss move on them...like running stop signs like you do.
bingo. see my above post.

"I've nearly hit a lot of bikers back there who blow through stop signs."


You mean at the FOUR WAY STOP SIGNS?

Just ignore them.

Went for a latenight ride yesterday--forgot about the whole drunk driving/holiday factor until a few miles in, then just became a touch more cognizant for the rest of the ride. Saw p-lenty of dudes pulled over all over the city (ride was a 13-mile loop through downtown/university etc. type areas). Anyway, I went through one stretch that has 4 way stops every block just west of downtown by the courthouse. I was keeping good pace with the pizza delivery car adjacent to me by slowing down to check for anything oncoming, then going through if the coast was clear (it was for every block, maybe 6 in a row), while she came to a stop at each one, more or less. After this stretch, as I was waiting at a red light, this voice calls out from the parking lot across the way, offering me the sage advice from the title of this thread, and also that "I've nearly hit a lot of bikers back there who blow through stop signs."

A few thoughts ran through my mind--

1, it's amazing to me that people don't realize how much more aware of the environment it is possible to be while on a bike. Unless there's a near-invisible object crossing through an intersection (a bullet, Superman, many bugs), I trust that I will detect some visible movement and stop. And a car? Kinda tough to miss, especially if it's barreling through a residential area with no regard for stop signs.

2, this is yet another instance of a motorist lumping all cyclists into some sort of imaginary club, group, society, whatever. I can only control my own actions, not those of all cyclists. Can you control the rampant bad driving I witness daily? Do I ask you to, oh pizza delivery girl? It's a strange phenomenon, drivers unloading their frustrations with all illegal cyclist behavior on a single cyclist who blows a stop sign. There is no "you guys," "bikers," etc. There is only the person that you are nervously trying to pass without hitting, sometimes quite dangerously. He might or might not obey traffic laws. I think the same thing about cars that I see blowing lights or stop signs. Some ******, probably drunk (if it's past 12 or 1, for sure). I never once think about blaming this person for all the insanely bad driving I witness constantly.

3. Was she saying that she nearly hits bikers who cross intersections right in front of her, or those adjacent to her? Due to thought #1, I find it hard to believe that a cyclist would cross directly in front of a car that is already stopped at a 4-way stop. But I guess anything is possible, and yes, those cyclists are putting themselves in great danger and of course pissing people off in the process. So is anyone with a death wish.

I've come up with a ready-made reply for these situations. Whenever anyone yells that I blew a stop sign, or a red light with no traffic, my only response is, "You're right." It seems the most appropriate thing to say, if there's a need to say anything at all.

Hope you all had a great Sunday night and are enjoying the holiday.

Glad you are aware of the truth of his statements, although all your thinking seems overly complicated for the simplicity of the situation. Ya you probably are more aware than most motorists, buuut... it's still breaking laws and it's still more dangerous.

It's better to follow the law and stop at stop signs. It seems that many bicyclists take STOP as more of a suggestion than drivers do.

People lump people together in groups. It just matters what each of us individually does.

I'd suggest stopping at stop signs. The more cyclists that do this, the better our image becomes. (That's just one benefit anyway)

wear a helmet :)
:roflmao:

This is bullsh*t. Sorry to be so blunt.



To each his own.
Do what you do, and I'll do what I do.
We can still be friends.

This is bullsh*t. Sorry to be so blunt.

I'm a cyclist and a driver and I've lived, driven, and ridden in several major cities around the country (and some international). I think that most drivers don't have an opinion either way about cyclists...until a cyclist pulls a jack*ss move on them...like running stop signs like you do.

I agree and disagree with this. It seems as though every day, though, I follow the law more, and get more crap from drivers. Perhaps this is because I live in the city that I do. A combination of terrible drivers (in general, when I'm driving too), and college students who are too impatient to go the speed limit. I have nearly been clipped by a bus, who passed me then stopped immediately for a bus stop, I have been hit by a pizza driver without a turnsignal (this was arguably my fault as well), and I am yelled at, revved at, and cussed at every day on my commute between class, work, and home. Heck, I got chased by an obscene fellow who passed me underneath a bridge where pedestrians were crossing who proceeded to tell me to shut up after yelling at me. Now, I must say, I do not follow all traffic laws on central campus, but this is not where my issues with drivers occur. I stop at all the red lights, and all the stop signs on my commute and I even used the designated bike trail on certain sections. But this only irritates drivers more. They now must slow down and speed up at my pace if they are behind me, and I tend to take up the whole lane, because too many times have drivers cut far too close for my comfort. But, I don't feel bad, I just say 'you shoulda left earlier today.'

Being said, I am no perfect driver, nor am I a perfect cyclist (I can't go 50 miles an hour, sorry; especially not in a 40). But I believe that the gist of what most drivers think is, if you do it, so can I. If we weave so close to them, they can do the same, the difference then is, when we do it, our life is at stake. When they do it, our lives are stake still, and they have nothing to lose, so to speak. Now, they won't run a red light, but they will cut damn close to you simply because it won't hurt them. I still cuss and yell at the crazy ones (though they can't hear me), and flick off the ones who spit in my path as they pass or heckle me for my mode of transportation, which I ought to change, instead now I try to wave and put a smile on (seriously, it makes you feel better, and helps pass the incident over faster).

Bear in mind, over a year and some, I have gone from an aggressive and 'get-out-of-my-way' to a more defensive and 'I am here, sorry', cycling point of view. I think the huge difference between here and when I ride in somewhere like Chicago, is that drivers don't know what to do. Commuting by bicycle is not a big thing, we only recently (within the past month) got a few bike lanes in (regardless that they last less than three blocks) on roads that are written in by law to be shared roads. Drivers here don't really see cyclists on the road all that often, as many times cyclists will ride on the sidewalks (college kids who don't want to get hit, understandable) and then the pedestrians yell at them for that. I know when I first got into it, I was a major jack-a-hole because my stance was, they don't want me on the road, they don't want me on the sidewalk, I guess I'll make my own path.

Perhaps this seeming hostility towards cyclists in my city is of my own doing, or the doing of others, I just hope that a compromise can be made.

Oh, and I wear a helmet, and I have lights (no brakes though ><)

TL;DR

I agree, but disagree; respectfully.

Man, leed, your city is not bike friendly. NYC is full of aggressive drivers and people who think they have something to prove, but it definitely helps a lot that there is so much bike and pedestrian traffic that drivers are used to avoiding them.

Definitely noticed a lot more bike hate in cities with low cycling populations. In a more philosophical perspective, things that people hate tend to be things that they have little or no actual exposure to . . .