Professional Cycling For the Fans - Who Says Riis Isn't Vindictive?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/updated-andy-schleck-ogrady-removed-from-vuelta

Sorry man but andy comes out like a ****** bag on this one,he knew it was team policy,but still went drinking.

^^
I don't think he went out to get wasted, he probably had a glass of wine before going to bed or something. I think it's a crazy decision to kick them out for this and I doubt Riis would have done that to any cyclist who's not leaving the team.

I think it flows both ways with Andy leaving he was not worried as much and Riis has no reason to keep him on, especially with AC coming. He does not need to win a GT this year because he figures he can get 1 if not 2 next year.

Yeah, Riis' move does make him look like a bitter man. Like rogeilco mentioned, I doubt this would have happened if Andy and Stuart hadn't already made their move. A small fine sure, but to forcibly withdraw them? That seems more than harsh.

Andy says they went out to a bar and had a couple of beers after dinner. Sounds pretty clear that they dont care one bit about the team(which helped them out a lot), nor for Riis, who andy recently called a friend. Riis doesnt seem vindictive, so much as dealing with riders that dont care for their team in the only way he can. They are still under contract, and know exactly how they are expected to act, and chose not too.

Andy says they went out to a bar and had a couple of beers after dinner. Sounds pretty clear that they dont care one bit about the team(which helped them out a lot), nor for Riis, who andy recently called a friend. Riis doesnt seem vindictive, so much as dealing with riders that dont care for their team in the only way he can. They are still under contract, and know exactly how they are expected to act, and chose not too.

Someone here has read the velonation story,and i agree.These 2 riders really are showing a lack of class,they should have followed team policy and helped frank go for the GC.I know alot of people here wanted andy to win the TDF but i think he acted like an entitled brat there and in this situation,thats my take im sure it's not yours(the reader)but we are entitled to one thing in life and thats our own opinion.

Based on what little info is available, it seems pretty straight-forward that AC & O'G violated the rules. I concur they wouldn't have done it if they were still in serious contention; it's also possible they are taking a bit more relaxed attitude as a result. At the same time, I don't necessarily think they're being rude or disrespectful to the team, they just wanted to unwind.

As to Riis, it doesn't make sense to be nasty about this. Schleck is young, and there's a pretty good chance Riis and Schleck will work together again at some point in the future.

I think both sides are telling the other to piss off.. If AS wasn't leaving at the end of the season, he wouldn't be kicked out of the race, and by the same token, if he wasn't leaving he probably wouldn't have broken the rules so visibly. This goes both ways, I think...

The other side (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-explains-schleck-and-ogrady-expulsion)

This is the problem with statements like "he probably had a glass of wine before going to bed or something" in forums - it's just conjecture based on nothing.

If it was one of my riders that was so disrespectful as to come in a 05:00 on a race day I would have sent him home as well, right after washing the team bus.

The other side (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-explains-schleck-and-ogrady-expulsion)

This is the problem with statements like "he probably had a glass of wine before going to bed or something" in forums - it's just conjecture based on nothing.

If it was one of my riders that was so disrespectful as to come in a 05:00 on a race day I would have sent him home as well, right after washing the team bus.

Absolutely. These guys are professionals, and the team has a right to expect them to behave as such. If I were the coach I'd take an especially hard line because they are prominent guys and you can't have that sort of example being set.

The other side (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-explains-schleck-and-ogrady-expulsion)

This is the problem with statements like "he probably had a glass of wine before going to bed or something" in forums - it's just conjecture based on nothing.

If it was one of my riders that was so disrespectful as to come in a 05:00 on a race day I would have sent him home as well, right after washing the team bus.

Yeah, I just didn't expect two "veteran" riders like A Schleck and Grady would behave so unprofesionally in one of the biggest races of the year. My bad.

Seems rather rash--maybe even irrational--for Riis to weaken his team. What was the rational behind the decision to remove them from the race: you've broken team rules; therefore, it is in the team's best interest that you two leave the race now? Trying to see how kicking them off is better for the team. And, if I'm ot mistaken, Riis also didn't take [I forget his name] the Director Sportief, who also be leaving, to the Tour.

Seems rather rash--maybe even irrational--for Riis to weaken his team.


Perhaps.......but ultimately the "team" may be stronger (even in this race), you do realize that the night owls weren't exactly a dominate force in the race

Perhaps.......but ultimately the "team" may be stronger (even in this race),I don't see how.


you do realize that the night owls weren't exactly a dominate force in the raceYour point?

Seems rather rash--maybe even irrational--for Riis to weaken his team. What was the rational behind the decision to remove them from the race: you've broken team rules; therefore, it is in the team's best interest that you two leave the race now? Trying to see how kicking them off is better for the team. And, if I'm ot mistaken, Riis also didn't take [I forget his name] the Director Sportief, who also be leaving, to the Tour.

would you want to be on a descent going 60 mph next to 2 guys running on 2 hours sleep and hungover?
Riis is in the right.

would you want to be on a descent going 60 mph next to 2 guys running on 2 hours sleep and hungover?Hell yeah I would. lol

I don't see how.

Your point?

You cut out a cancer to strengthen a body (so to speak)......

My point is that it is little to lose at this point, Andy was barely (mentally) at the event to begin with

Yeah, despite the cancer analogy, I'm still gonna say I don't see how kicking them out makes them a better team.
What makes you say they aren't "mentally at the event"?

Yeah, despite the cancer analogy, I'm still gonna say I don't see how kicking them out makes them a better team.
What makes you say they aren't "mentally at the event"?
- If the reports are correct, there's no way they'd be out until 5AM if they were actually focused on the Vuelta.
- Andy had no plans to contend for the Vuelta anyway
- Andy is also is gearing up for the Tour of Lombardy
- O'Grady is prepping for the World's
- It sends a clear signal that Riis is not putting up with any shenanigans, even from a top rider

Andy says they went out to a bar and had a couple of beers after dinner. Sounds pretty clear that they dont care one bit about the team(which helped them out a lot), nor for Riis, who andy recently called a friend. Riis doesnt seem vindictive, so much as dealing with riders that dont care for their team in the only way he can. They are still under contract, and know exactly how they are expected to act, and chose not too.


Someone here has read the velonation story,and i agree.These 2 riders really are showing a lack of class,they should have followed team policy and helped frank go for the GC.I know alot of people here wanted andy to win the TDF but i think he acted like an entitled brat there and in this situation,thats my take im sure it's not yours(the reader)but we are entitled to one thing in life and thats our own opinion.

+1 on both accounts. Seems like Andy was at the Vuelta because he had to be there, not because he wanted to be there. His performance showed it. How hard is it to lay off the beers for 3 weeks? And rolling in a 5 a.m. is inexcusable. He didn't seem to have that problem in July. People seem to want to give Andy a lot of leash for a guy who has one significant win (L-B-L, 2009) in his career and never won a grand tour (no offense to the Luxembourgers and their national titles).

- If the reports are correct, there's no way they'd be out until 5AM if they were actually focused on the Vuelta.

- Andy had no plans to contend for the Vuelta anyway
- Andy is also is gearing up for the Tour of Lombardy
- O'Grady is prepping for the World's
- It sends a clear signal that Riis is not putting up with any shenanigans, even from a top rider

It sends the message that Riss will not put up with shenanigans from two riders who are leaving his team at year's end--i.e he seems bitter.
Staying out partying doesn't mean one isn't commented to doing their job: look at Heinrich Haussler. He won a stage in the Vuealta the day after a night spent partying at a discotheque.
A monetary fine would have accomplished sending a message. Kicking two out of the Vuelta two riders, who will quit the team at year's end, smacks of bitterness IMO.

Oh, please.

It's cycling. Riders change teams constantly, and a DS who burns bridges all the time is not going to last, and Riis has lasted.

Andy will be able to ride Lombardy, which is what he wants; and if Riis was genuinely vindictive, I'm fairly confident he could do something much more damaging than boot them from a stage race they obviously don't care much about. I'm fairly sure if he fined them instead of suspending them, the same exact people would say "Riis is bitter" anyway.

(By the way, you asked for indicators they weren't serious; nothing you're saying supports a contrary view.)

I don't think Riis is the one being petty here....

Riis is not just doing this for this year. He is doing this to set an example for next year. If this passes this year, what do you think the riders who stay on or come into the team next year will think?

Any was being an A$$Hat. And by the way...his freaking brother was in the race, in theory still in contention. Now - I do wonder whether Frank admitted to Andy that he did not have the form (after seeing him unable to match attacks on moderate climbs, that might have been all Andy needed to know). Either way, this was unprofessional, and insult to the team, and insult to the Vuelta, and luckily, I no longer feel bad for Andy and the dropped chain.

Andy didn't stay out to 5AM, you bozos. Stop believing everything you read on the innernet. Believe me instead! ME!!!

Riis acted professionally. I would have been vindictive.

I would have put them on their bikes with the seat set 2 cm too low and jumping between gears....oh ya, and with a brake dragging. I also would have had them on beeotch duty running bottles and anything else I could think of. After that was over, I'd put them on the front until they blew up. Then I'd leave for the hotel before they made it to the team bus, so they could find their own way home.

Kicking them out of the race gave them exactly what they wanted. It was way too nice.

Since when does enforcing team rules = vindictive? Or is it just because its the Golden Boy and his chum, instead of some third-rate water carrier? Riis may be a polarizing figure, but everything he's done in his years as a manager has been about the team. Nothing is more important to him than that. And its not vindictive.

Vindictive, in my book, would have been more like this...he finds out his riders just got in at 5:00am, so he gets them up out of the rack at 5:30 for a brief team meeting and a greasy breakfast, quickly followed by some uphill TT practice. That's vindictive. But its also unprofessional, so Riis didn't do it.

Kicking them out of the race gave them exactly what they wanted. It was way too nice.

I agree. He could've been much more harsh, had he wanted to.

Schleck was contacted by Sporten.dk, and said that the reason they were excluded was due to going for drinks yesterday night.

“The fact is that on the rest day yesterday, we chose to go out after eating late dinner, which people do in Spain,” he said. “We had no more than two beers each, then we went home at 1 o’clock and met Bjarne who was sitting at another bar.”

“It doesn’t matter if it was one drink or ten,” Riis told reporters after yesterday’s stage, “or if he was out until five in the morning and that’s between us anyway, rules are made to be kept. I’m not here to give any explanations or further details. What actually happened will stay between us.”




Doesn't look like they were actually out until 5am, that was a translation error. Riis is saying it wouldn't matter what time they were out until, even if it were 5am, its the principle.

Lot's of possible scenarios at play. I tend to believe that AS was forced to go to the Vuelta and just wanted out. A possible situation could be that Frank just wasn't feeling it and gave the wink-wink for Andy to get out of being there. Either way I think Andy did it on purpose and Riis fell for the trap. Riis's Vuelta win is gone which may be what he wanted. Now the team can just go for stages. With all the defections going on this is a minor story.

Lot's of possible scenarios at play. I tend to believe that AS was forced to go to the Vuelta and just wanted out. A possible situation could be that Frank just wasn't feeling it and gave the wink-wink for Andy to get out of being there. Either way I think Andy did it on purpose and Riis fell for the trap. Riis's Vuelta win is gone which may be what he wanted.

Or maybe Andy just felt like goin for a beer with a friend.


But why spoil a great conspiracy theory.

Or maybe Andy just felt like goin for a beer with a friend.
But why spoil a great conspiracy theory.

Heh, agreed.

Or maybe Andy just felt like goin for a beer with a friend.


Increasingly, this is looking to be the case and Riis is appearing to be a bit of a twot.

(By the way, you asked for indicators they weren't serious; nothing you're saying supports a contrary view.)
Nothing you wrote indicated they weren't serious.
Oh and..oh please. :D

Well okay, glad we settled that. http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/headscratch.gif