Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Why was I slower with gears?

I usually take 51 minutes 28 seconds to 52 minutes to commute 20 km using my singlespeed Dahon geared at 62 gear inches from door-to-door with or without the fairing. Pics of the setup here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?674508-Descent-into-Non-Conformity-Begins.../page2).

To test the theory that I should be faster using gears, I put back gears (SRAM 8 speeds) on the bike, lengthened the chain and tuned it up again. I even have more aerodynamic trekking bars that allow me to crouch into a more streamlined position. The idea behind gears is that I can go spin uphill and go faster downhill and faster on the flats. So I cycled with the same commitment I usually do today.

Today's time? 55 minutes 12 seconds. Longer time by 7%. My average speed went from 23.3 km/h to 21.7 km/h. I don't understand. I really wanted this to work. I was faster without multiple gears and using just a flat bar with bar ends.

If you know Vancouver, my commute is from west Richmond by the dike, to River Rock Casino, across the CanadaLine bicycle bridge, north on Cambie Street from Kent Ave all the way into downtown (huge uphill all the way), right to Waterfront Center or Sinclair Center at Howe and Cordova.

Why was I slower? I rode just as hard as I normally do.

you are too hardcore for gears.

Maybe you just need to get used to gears again and learn the optimal combo for each situation. One ride means nothing, repeat several times and report back. I'm usually faster with gears but there are times where I'll just get lazy and spin easy

Wonder if the fairing made the difference?

I went through this recently too. Find the gear that mimics your fixed gearing and then just stay in it.

We inherently try an easier gear but then cadence suffers. We slow down.

After having a road bike again, I am going back to %100 fixed until the spring I think. To me a road bike lets me go to different places with leisure.

You weren't utilizing the variable gears properly?

You weren't utilizing the variable gears properly?

Exactly. If you spend your whole life with one gear, using a geared bike feels foreign and you don't use it right.

No guys. I was using gears correctly by changing gears to keep a constant cadence (80 and above). My comfortable cadence in in the 90s. I'm thinking slight but measurable transmission losses with a derailleur. Hills are definitely easier on the knees with lower gears though!

so you asked a question
waited for responses
then told people they were wrong


good thread so far

The transmission losses aren't large enough. Count the teeth again.

Take the gear inches from the fixed and match the gearing selection on the geared bike. You'll find you are just as fast.

Stop using an easy gear and keep the speed up.

so you asked a question
waited for responses
then told people they were wrong good thread so far

Right. Very helpful post from you.

Banzai, I think you are right. AVS drops due to being in a lower gear for periods of time compared to the SS gear. Was also sitting and spinning on the hills rather than attacking the hills. Will measure a few more commutes to see. Thanks.

if you have your choice you are more apt to pick an easier combo. I can ride 28+ on the flats with a road bike, is it comfortable, no. Much rather be spinning at 20 mph.

I know the hill well. I always get pinched by a bus at the Canada Line station then hammer that hill with 81 gear inches. On my road bike I sit down and try to keep my cadence at 90. I go noticeably slower.

I feel there is no shame in wanting to continue being a fixed roadie. I've spent my life without a derailleur, my road bike is on CL and getting picked up tonight.

Going slower isn't that big of a deal. In this town, a road bike gets you places a fixed bike might not go.

3 min diff?! Different traffic patterns? Inaccurate time measurement?
3 min +- != faster/slower in the context of commutiong IMO.

Banzai and vw addict, upon further reflection, I think my avg. cadence also dropped. I believe being in a lower gear for a portion of the time and lowering my avg. cadence contributed to the slower time.

Banzai, 81 inches? Wow. Monster legs brutha! I doubt I could turn the pedals from Kent all the way to 35th Ave on Cambie Street with that gearing. I gotta buy you a milkshake or ice cream for that one. I've tried the bike routes on Ontario and Heather but the grading on those are steeper than Cambie Street. Go figure.

chi-james, I've timed the commute enough times to know that 3min + is outside the normal standard deviation for my times.

You using clipless on the road bike?

No guys. I was using gears correctly by changing gears to keep a constant cadence (80 and above). My comfortable cadence in in the 90s.
Your cadence says nothing of the gear you were in. 90 RPM at 80GI is faster than 90 RPM at 70GI.

If you kept a similar average cadence, that means you were in a shorter average gear. It's math.

Your cadence says nothing of the gear you were in. 90 RPM at 80GI is faster than 90 RPM at 70GI.

If you kept a similar average cadence, that means you were in a shorter average gear. It's math.

I assumed he knew this and wondered if he was matching his regular gear inches with the corresponding gears on the dérailleur bike.

Even I haven't done this with my Bianchi. I don't know what gear matches my T1 and its 81gi.

Hills are definitely easier on the knees with lower gears though!

Right. By removing the stress on your knees, you're also removing the speed when you climb. That, right there, is the difference.

When I ride single speed I find that I usually climb much faster simply because I need to in order to survive the climb, in a gear that's really too tall for the hill. A lot of standing up, a lot of mashing, a lot of grunting.

Also, when I do group rides on my single speed, I almost always pass people when climbing (most of them are on geared road bikes). Same explanation.

I assumed he knew this and wondered if he was matching his regular gear inches with the corresponding gears on the dérailleur bike.
I don't think I see the point of riding a geared bike if you're just going to mimic your static singlespeed GI. Unless you really want to collect that one empirical data point.


OP: The reason you went slower is because you geared down on hills which made your ascent slower, and then failed to make up the time by taking advantage of big gears on the descents.

A = ascent speed on SS
B = ascent speed on Geared

X = descent speed on SS
Y = descent speed on Geared

(A-B) > (Y-X)

do you really time yourself within seconds when you do a commute?

Also, I find it hard to believe that your commuting time is consistent within 30 seconds, especially when going through a downtown area where there are things like lights to consider...

almost always pass people when climbing (most of them are on geared road bikes).
+1


do you really time yourself within seconds when you do a commute?.
always. every day is a race against a younger version of myself ;)

I don't think I see the point of riding a geared bike if you're just going to mimic your static singlespeed GI. Unless you really want to collect that one empirical data point.


On average.

I ride a lot of flat and my engine only does X over distance Y. Matching what my usual sustained cadence and speed is not wrong.

I can keep 35kph up no problem on a non-windy day. Why would I park in a gear with the same cadence but that nets me 29kph? I won't be working as hard.

I'm no roadie (close), but I have two modes of riding. Exercise and "going for a rip". The exercise part of my riding I like to maximise.

So with a geared bike I would like to keep my efficiency as close to what I have on my fixed, but when I hit an incline I just change gears to make it easy. Maybe I just view my road bike as the "easy ride". I'm not really getting my point across I think. :|

Ah, the responses are getting better and better. Thanks everyone. This was the kind of dialogue I was hoping for.

Pedalling ATX, yes I time myself to the second not to be a numbers nerd since the body, wind and traffic are different from day to day. But most days of my commute, I am within 30 seconds of 51 minutes 28 seconds which is an AVS of 23.3 km/h which includes the climb on Cambie. I am just curious how different tweaks to a bicycle and equipment affect elapsed times.

From what I have experienced (and certainly one person's experience is by no means a principal), more time is lost\gained on hills than any other kind of equipment change. I have ridden the commute tucked down in an aerodynamic position, I have done with a fairing and without, with a flat bar & bar ends or a trekking bar which allows a lower rider profile. Nothing affects elapsed time or AVS as much as attacking hills and climbing fast. Theoratical maximum speed downhill cannot be achieved due to the need to ride among traffic and watching out for lights. Therefore, the answer is the hills.


dsh & doohickie - thanks for the poignant answer. I think its spot on. I'm losing time on ascents. Yes, I do know that other things being equal, a similar cadence with a lower gear means slower speed. I was trying to "spin" my way up the hill instead of mashing it.

Banzai, I use Zefal toe clips on my bike.

Cambie, mash that female dog. Shift, get on the hoods and destroy.

$50 says your commute time gets within 1 minute tomorrow. Although I hear it will be raining.

My technique on the ss is to "walk" up the hill- get up out of the saddle but don't worry about speed too much, just let my (ample) weight do the work. This works up to maybe 10-12% grade. Steeper than that, I have to push and pull on the handlebars to keep the pedals going. I guess I don't weigh enough for those steep hills....

Thank you everyone. This discussion really helps me understand what my options and consequences are.

I "feel" slower on my geared bike, but my gps tells me that i'm not really that much off either way. I think the feeling comes from the bike being 10lbs heavier.

so you asked a question
waited for responses
then told people they were wrong


good thread so far

+1, still

+1, still

Same & lame.

it is all mental. You're pushing your body beyond its normal limit because on a geared bike your mind allows you to downshift, you fight your way up the hills instead of flighting. Now you have zen.

Enjoy

you are too hardcore for gears.

this!

I'm amazed umd didn't make it in here.

this isnt on his beat.

He has some weird sixth sense for questions like this.

You got to want it. The bike itself is not going to do the work.

Traffic?

You weren't utilizing the variable gears properly?

+1

Speaking of gears, I keep forgetting about the ability to coast on my roadie often times, depriving myself of the enjoyment that comes from idled legs on a ride :lol:

I think you have figured it out by now.

In general, a geared bike is faster downhill and slower uphill (and possibly into corners). It is the slower part that really kills your average speed; the downhills don't make up for it.

I'm amazed umd didn't make it in here.

it would be interesting to see him post here. Botto has done it a few times

maybe you arent core enough to use gears.

Did it in 51 mins. 18 secs. today. Geared. No fairing. Made up some time working the downhills.

My technique on the ss is to "walk" up the hill- get up out of the saddle but don't worry about speed too much, just let my (ample) weight do the work. This works up to maybe 10-12% grade. Steeper than that, I have to push and pull on the handlebars to keep the pedals going. I guess I don't weigh enough for those steep hills....
Don't pull on the handlebars, pull on your back leg.

Why was I slower? I rode just as hard as I normally do.

You were slower because you have OCD.

Stop timing yourself and you'll get much faster.

"Stop timing yourself and you'll get much faster."

I like. :)

it would be interesting to see him post here. Botto has done it a few times

My bikes have gears, I don't read this forum...

Well for me. 12 mile rid from my house up to the top of mt wilson. the tallest mountain in LA and it took me like an hour on my road bike the first time. Then i went on my fixie. took me 30 minutes.

Just to hardcore. no i can do it with the track bike. Takes a life.

All other things being equal, climbing on a fixed gear is much much easier than climbing on a freewheeled bike.